created by: GermanMichel | Dec 28, 2012

Estonia

46 votes

ARE ESTONIANS WANNABE-SCANINAVIANS?

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  • YES
  • NO
  • WE ARE BETTER THAN POOR LATIVIANS
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Since: Sep 12

In your mind.

#1 Jan 3, 2013
Some I met were wanabee Scandinavians,

“Been to Polakia...”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#2 Jan 9, 2013
TheRealMagyar wrote:
Some I met were wanabee Scandinavians,
You what?

Since: Sep 12

In your mind.

#3 Jan 9, 2013
WHat dont you understand?

“Been to Polakia...”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#4 Jan 9, 2013
TheRealMagyar wrote:
WHat dont you understand?
Had you fallen out of arabian bush lately? why TF would you have, comment on Estonians in negative manner?
Dude- you are asking for a serious gay bashing!

Since: Sep 12

In your mind.

#5 Jan 9, 2013
1) I personally like Estonians, like their country, people, language, etc.

But some I met were wanabee Scandinavians, who looked down on Latvia and Lithuania.

“Been to Polakia...”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#6 Jan 9, 2013
Sorry!
came across in a negative manner to my view, so I'll take it as lesson for both of us- exceptional trolls- worth ignoring for the good of all and personal rapour!

Since: Sep 12

In your mind.

#7 Jan 9, 2013
I am not a troll though, are you?

“Been to Polakia...”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#8 Jan 9, 2013
TheRealMagyar wrote:
I am not a troll though, are you?
unless you clear up your statement at the beginning about Estonians-1

and would take a chill pill regarding my statements in non provocative manner, I might consider my opinion about Hungarians-2

most importantly Scandinavian paralleled option regarding Estonians is at the very least wrong, as culturally, language ways and in general few miles ahead of many nations, including actual Scandinavian complexity to state, that any of the Estonians would be pretentious as southerner national to be some other, to one he is!-3
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#9 Jan 11, 2013
TheRealMagyar wrote:
But some I met were wanabee Scandinavians, who looked down on Latvia and Lithuania.
That is hard to believe.
Why?
Because scandinavians are wannabe nordics, while genetically they are mostly mesolithic baltic-finns with a hint of neolithic greek.

And "down" in baltic-finnic (estonian and finnish) languages means "north". So, by "looking down" one would mean "considering as fellow nordics". Estonians only "look down" to finns, because finns are to the north of estonians. Balts used to be baltic finns back in neolithic times, but now they speak indo-european.

What is indo, is not european, what is european is not indo.
What is nordic, is not aryan, what is aryan is not nordic.

Is the same peculiarity of (down = base = north) within the hungarian language?

Since: Sep 12

In your mind.

#10 Jan 11, 2013
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
That is hard to believe.
Why?
I am not making it up, or lying, but a number of Estonians I spoke to see themselves close to Scandinavians, and see the Balts as Eastern European car thieves, almost a sense of superiority when they talk about Latvia and Lithuania.
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>Balts used to be baltic finns back in neolithic times, but now they speak indo-european.
Partially correct, there is heavy Finnic, especially Livonian influence on Balts, but its wrong to say they are all Baltified Finnics.

Also, Latvian to me sounds like it has a lot of Finnic influence on it, makes sense due to Livonians.
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>What is indo, is not european, what is european is not indo.
Yes, hence Indo-EUROPEAN
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>What is nordic, is not aryan, what is aryan is not nordic.
Correct.
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
Is the same peculiarity of (down = base = north) within the hungarian language?
No there is not.

Since: Sep 12

In your mind.

#11 Jan 11, 2013
Atasas wrote:
<quoted text]
and would take a chill pill regarding my statements in non provocative manner,
Sorry if I sounded provokative, I did not mean to.
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#12 Jan 11, 2013
In short, it's a soap opera down here in the north
:-)

Since: Sep 12

In your mind.

#13 Jan 11, 2013
I am not saying ALL Estonians I talked to think like this, but some I talked to DO.
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#14 Jan 11, 2013
TheRealMagyar wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not making it up, or lying, but a number of Estonians I spoke to see themselves close to Scandinavians
That in itself does not make one as a wannabe scandinavian.
TheRealMagyar wrote:
<quoted text>
and see the Balts as Eastern European car thieves, almost a sense of superiority when they talk about Latvia and Lithuania.
That is just a usual neighbourly quarrel.
I might as well turn it around and blame lithuanians for looking down to estonians, especially concerning basketball.

Or you might also claim that estonians are looking down to scandinavians for their very lax immigration practices.

Or you might claim that swedes look down to norwegians. Or the other way around.
TheRealMagyar wrote:
<quoted text>
Partially correct, there is heavy Finnic, especially Livonian influence on Balts, but its wrong to say they are all Baltified Finnics.
It is quite correct to consider all balts as balticized baltic finns. It is even correct to consider northern belorussians as former baltic finns. With southern belorussians, it is not that clear any more.

Estonians are the descendants of livonians (livonians including curonians), who used to be pre-swiderians and swiderians. Finns are likely the descendants of post-swiderians who migrated straight from Poland to Finland and later mixed with estonians and karelians and saamis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiderian_cultur...

"The Swiderian is recognized as a distinctive culture that developed on the sand dunes left behind by the retreating glaciers."

Livonians = liivlased = sand-people
Lietuva = Leetuva = a land with a tendency for sand dunes
Another self-designation for livonians is "randlased" = coastal dwellers.

The two main racial and dialectal regions of estonians follow the Baltic Ice Lake geography during the Allerod period about 14-13 000 years ago, before the Laacher See supervolcano eruption. It means that Estonia was divided by contract between coastal peoples and islanders from one side and mainlanders from the other side. The other side is represented by south-eastern estonians and mulgi people.

It is known that swiderians left to north and north-east from Poland. It is also known that at that time (after the end of Younger Dryas), Finland emerged from under the glaciers and sea. If the Baltics and Estonian regions were already "taken" and divided by previous inhabitants, then those Polish swiderians had to go straight to Finland.

More glacial melt + isostatic uplift in Estonia and Finland and Sweden -> lots of Polish coastal areas submerged -> lots of new land in Finland.

Of course, this circum-baltic region hosted other cultures besides swiderian. Understanding the differences between magdalenian, ahrensburgian, hamburgian and other contemporary cultures is still in its infancy.

Since: Sep 12

In your mind.

#15 Jan 11, 2013
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>
That in itself does not make one as a wannabe scandinavian.
What about trying to prove that they have more in common with Swedes than Lithuanians?
tarmo wrote:
<quoted text>It is quite correct to consider all balts as balticized baltic finns. It is even correct to consider northern belorussians as former baltic finns. With southern belorussians, it is not that clear any more.
Only about 40% of Lithuania is haplogroup N.
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#16 Jan 11, 2013
Such a racial divide between coastal peoples and inland peoples is still evident in Poland, in Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Finland. It is a legacy of epipaleolithic.

And the former wider baltic-finnic region (including the balts) is genetically the least changed and most similar to mesolithic europeans. And estonians are genetically very similar to latvians and lithuanians. This rules out any large influx of "indo-europeans". The switch to indo-european dialects had to happen somewhere more south, possibly in southern Belarus, north-eastern Poland, northern Ukraine. But the people who brought it to Lithuania were still very much of baltic-finnic (meaning mesolithic european) stock.

http://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2012/04/so-whos...
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#17 Jan 11, 2013
TheRealMagyar wrote:
<quoted text>
What about trying to prove that they have more in common with Swedes than Lithuanians?
<quoted text>
Only about 40% of Lithuania is haplogroup N.
Only about 32% of estonians is haplogroup N, even less among estonian islanders (oeselians). And by haplogroup N, gotlanders are a 50%-50% mix of oeselians / curonians and swedes.

Haplogroups do not give a good picture.
tarmo

Tallinn, Estonia

#18 Jan 11, 2013
Haplogroup N is more prevalent among "mainlanders / inlanders" of baltic finns.

Lithuanians are more mainlanders, estonians are more maritime.

Finns are an especially good example of an east-west coastal-inland mix of peoples.

“Been to Polakia...”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#19 Jan 12, 2013
Nice to hear sensible conversation!
this
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/neolithic_europ...
is a good example of migration and gene spread/mix, which USED to be on a "slow time" . Current century of history could change the gene mix to 99% of near opposites.
Take Lithuanian Prussian lands and population, those have 1% of current representation in Karaliaucius (Kaliningrad) Oblast.
As much as genes is is accurate and measurable roots indicator, social political and even economic influences are not that good indicator as why, especially in recent century.
Without prejudiced I'd like to point out as what happened in Lith
We do have (despite small remaining size of a country) 4 very distinctive subgroups of Lithuanian Identity (Prussian would be wrong to count in) Same as Latvians do have quite an distinctive 2 subgroups culturally.

Since: Sep 12

In your mind.

#20 Jan 12, 2013
Atasas wrote:
<quoted text>
unless you clear up your statement at the beginning about Estonians-1
Ok I will clear it up.

I talked to some Estonians, and that is the impression I got from them.
So I am asking, if this is common, or if these were just people with rare opinions.

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