How strong is the Turkish army?

[FromACountryFarF arAway]

How strong is Turkish Army ? Quick answer is, very strong. To provide a long answer I have to ask "what is the criteria of strength?". Turkey has sizable military force, and size does matter. But how effective you use it is more important. Here comes the concept of experience, training and resources.

Turkey is a self sufficient country, there are only seven countries in the world who are self sufficient. Turks are a warrior nation. Some would say being a nation of science, art or medicine would could have provided better life for human kind and Turks as well (well, at least I say), but since ancient times (The Huns, Mongolians, Ottomans etc.) this culture has been inherited and it comes out strong when there is a threat.

One other aspect is training and experience. Turkey is dealing with terrorism for over 30 years in North Iraq and it's southeast border. Turkey raised an army of special forces (mountain commandos) which is similar to US Rangers with more intense survival training (terrain requires that), as "anti-terrorism" force. From a country of 80million, only the best are accepted. In last 30 years, over 300,000 soldiers experienced active warfare.

Turkey produces it's own hi-tech submarines and has up-to-date tech air force. Turkey owns significant amount of Cobra and Apache helicopters which are equipped with latest technology and pilots have warfare experience. Within all NATO countries, only Turkish and US armies were able to navigate its tactical air born division (over 10K soldiers) accurately by providing logistics within an hour.

Long story short, Turkey has strong, disciplined and well trained military force. But most important point is, the objective of this force; which is defense. Turkey doesn't own neither nuclear nor ballistic missiles. Turkey doesn't have long-range naval force. Turkey is resourceful to own/build those but doesn't practice that kind of politics. I think it is correct to say that Turkey has a heavy fist and short arm and this strong arms exists to defend its own.

I read comments above regarding Turkey vs. Greece. I seriously don't believe two nations which are that close to each other can ever have major military conflict in the future. Turkey has much superior force and if we consider the last man standing as winner (!), that would be Turkey. But ultimately both sides would loose. Greece would crash western industrial zones of Turkey and Turkey would crash Greece. Than ? Both countries would go at least 50 years back. Here is what will happen after, both countries will be on the lap of IMF and World Bank for the following century to rebuild infrastructure and industry. Greece will reinvest heavily on its military force to make sure it cannot be defeated again. Turkey will reinvest heavily as well, so it can maintain a heavy fist. Again, both countries will loose.

Psst... Here is the secret, both countries invest billions and billions of dollars on warfare industry as is. Let's both show our middle finger to arms dealers who want to keep their "best customers" buying. They don't want to see Turkey and Greece as allies. Let's stop this and invest all those billions on our own healcare systems so everyone can get the best medical service. Many more billions will be left, lets invest on schools and build better social services, create more jobs. Increase the life standard. As we started, let's drop the borders, so we can all jump in the ferry and enjoy a weekend with our girlfriend after a hard week's work. It takes less than an hour to go between Greece and Turkey with ferry, we can play basketball in the afternoon, have dinner and still go back to our own homes for the night. I say, let both countries focus on their common identity, which is being Mediterranean and enjoy good food and wine. And show the finger to warlords together.

[Hursit]

I was born in England but im Turkish Cypriot and my grandparents are from Tokhni, Cyprus. If anyone has any pictures of Tokhni, could you send them to be at-([e-mail]) and we can hopefully share pictures.

thank you!

[Turko]

Hursit wrote:

I was born in England but im Turkish Cypriot and my grandparents are from Tokhni, Cyprus. If anyone has any pictures of Tokhni, could you send them to be at-([e-mail]) and we can hopefully share pictures.
thank you!

Hi Hursit, tokhni ( Dohni) one of the Villages
where Eoka executed their evil practices, ethnic Cleansing,

My neighbor in TRNC 2 years ago witnessed his father and brother being dug out of a well,
i am sorry for your or your villagers losses
if i come across any pictures dohni i will post them on to you
speak soon

[Turko]

FromACountryFarFarAway wrote:

How strong is Turkish Army ? Quick answer is, very strong. To provide a long answer I have to ask "what is the criteria of strength?". Turkey has sizable military force, and size does matter. But how effective you use it is more important. Here comes the concept of experience, training and resources.
Turkey. But ultimately both sides would loose. Greece would crash western industrial zones of Turkey and Turkey would crash Greece. Than ? Both countries would go at least 50 years back. Here is what will happen after, both countries will be on the lap of IMF and World Bank for the following century to rebuild infrastructure and industry. Greece will reinvest heavily on its military force to make sure it cannot be defeated again. Turkey will reinvest heavily as well, so it can maintain a heavy fist. Again, both .

You paint a pretty picture of Greece,
They are no contest to the mighty power of Turkey,
We the Turks have 3 advantages going for us,
1 ) we have far superior man power,
2 ) we have far superior warfair equipment, and suppliers ie America, UK, even Russia,
3) the Greeks are cowards as the history proven, they run when faced with the enemy specially Turks, look at Hitlers Amy's 5 days and it was over, they all run it to the mountains, and left their wives behind for the Germans,
look at 1974 it was over before it started,
So dont think they are any good, they have all ways been some ones dogs,
No mate they dont count,

[FromACountryFarF arAway]

Hitler's German army was playing a different ball game at the time. It is true that Greece didn't last five days against German Panzer divisions, but it is also a fact that Turkey could not afford a conventional warfare against Germany either. Turkish army was mostly infantry with artillery force left from WW1, German army had armored mobile divisions. Armor piercing equipment is needed to penetrate that kind of a force and neither Greece, nor Turkey had that kind of equipment. Turkey didn't have an air force either, only scout planes which would not stand a chance against Luftwaffe (German airforce). Shortly, in terms of conventional warfare, Turkey also would not stand much againist WII Germany.

I would like to add something here before I continue with inital topic. It is not much known, but Germany had three invasion plans. First one was called Sea Lion, which is a plan about invading England. This never happened and stand as bogus to just occupy England busy and concerned about having invasion in their own soil. There are two reasons of not going through this operation. First, England didn't have much natural resources (Germany was seeking natural resources for "Father Land" at that time), second it would not be that easy to bring England down to it's knees. It would cost dearly to Germany. Second plan was, as all know, marching to Stalingrad over Ukraine. And there was a third plan, which was going through Turkey (to Stalingrad and Moscow). Turkey reached this information through high rank German officers who refuge during German fall. Why this invasion didn't happen ? By all means it is a long story, but shortly German generals knew the potential of Turkish resistance and militia. Turkey didn't have armor piercing equipment or anti-aircraft guns, but had experianced soldiers who knew terrain very well. It would be impossible to maintain the supply chain and logistics.

Balkanian resistance costed Hitler over 1000 troops per month. Greece did what ever they can under the circumstances, I would not call this cowardly. This is what we would do if Germany had attacked Turkey. We would bring the war to a location where we can hit where it hurts.

I know many Greek people and know Greece. Unfortunately, in Greece, nationalism is based on hatred against Turkey and fear. Somehow, some benefit groups as well as local political parties promote that. It doesn't work that way in TR as Turkey has more self confidence and has to maintain a dominant military power due to its geographical position. I tried to make a point in my previous post, which is about how close are Greek and Turkish nations. Greece was under Turkish rule for many centuries. Both nations got effected from each other. We cannot just ignore the cultural exchange and inbreed on both sides.

Today's reality (I underline "today" part) is both countries are "expected" to be potential enemies. So both sides can keep investing tens of billions of dollars ever year on warfare industry. This situation is artificial and effecting both countries. Just look at the proportion of military investment on both countries GDP's. It's huge. Turkey is neighboring Iraq, Iran, Syria.. The most unstable countries in the world. Turkey somehow needs to maintain a strong military force, but Greece is investing only against an artificial fear against Turkey. Turkey will never invade Greece. And it doesn't matter how much Greece invests on warfare, Greece cannot be a threat to Turkey. Turkish population is seven times, economy is four times larger than Greece. This is reality. I really hope both countries would come to their senses and work on to develop peace as well as trade and tourism.

Some corporations/groups are making huge revenue by maintaining this hatred between two nations. Both sides should drop "Turks are like this...Greeks are like that" talk. That is what we are all expected to do.

[ozz-]

HOW STRONG IS THE TURKISH ARMY?

I heard the new Turkish Tanks have 3 reverse gears and one forward gear. The forward gear is in case tey get attacked from behind!!!!

[Guy]

ozz- wrote:

HOW STRONG IS THE TURKISH ARMY?
I heard the new Turkish Tanks have 3 reverse gears and one forward gear. The forward gear is in case tey get attacked from behind!!!!

They were good enough in 1974.

[ozz-]

Guy wrote:

<quoted text>They were good enough in 1974.

ONLY just!!! Since the cyprus army was killing each other, no fortifications at all on the north side...not even any soldiers up there to defend...might have been a different story if they were...and despite that what a great performance by the great turkish army..spectacular..you even sunk 3 of your ships!

[ozz-]

Guy wrote:

<quoted text>They were good enough in 1974.

Reported Military Losses of the Turkish Army and TOURKDYK
* M40A1 Recoiless Rifle - destroyed by T-34/85 on 20th July 1974 at Pentemilli (Five Mile Beach)
* M18A1 Recoiless Rifle - destroyed by T-34/85 on 20th July 1974 at Pentemilli (Five Mile Beach)
* M47 MBT (serial?)- destroyed by M20A1 on 22nd July 1974 at Nicosia International Airport.
* M47 MBT (serial?)- destroyed by M20A1 on 22nd July 1974 at Nicosia International Airport.
* M47 MBT (serial?)- destroyed by AT-3 Sagger missile on 1st August 1974 at Karavas village.
* M47 MBT (092265)- destroyed by M40A1 on 2nd August 1974 at Kornos Hill.
* M113 APC (serial?)- destroyed by M40A1 on 2nd August 1974 at Kornos Hill.
* M47 MBT (092273)- captured by 316TE on 2nd August 1974 at Kornos Hill.
* M113 APC (239943)- captured by 316TE on 2nd August 1974 at Kornos Hill.
* M47 MBT (serial?)- destroyed by M40A1 on the 15th August 1974 at Vasilia.
* M47 MBT (serial?)- destroyed by M40A1 on the 15th August 1974 at Vasilia.
* M47 MBT (serial?)- destroyed by T-34/85 on the 16th August 1974 at Nicosia.
[edit] Reported Military Losses of the Turkish Air Force

[Guy]

ozz- wrote:

<quoted text>ONLY just!!! Since the cyprus army was killing each other, no fortifications at all on the north side...not even any soldiers up there to defend...might have been a different story if they were...and despite that what a great performance by the great turkish army..spectacular..you even sunk 3 of your ships!

might have been?, when are you bubbles gonna learn?, You cannot re-write history.Fact is the bully got a bloody nose and has whinged about it for the last 34 years. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[ozz-]

Reported Military Losses of the Turkish Air Force

This information is supplied from reported sources and does NOT constitute a thorough or complete survey of the military losses in the conflict. Military secrecy by the combatants of the period, continuing today, means that this information is derived largely from what civilian media reports are available from the period.

* THK C-47 No. 6035 - Damaged by Greek-Cypriot AA fire on 20th July 1974. Salvaged

* THK C-130 (222.Filo)- Damaged by Greek-Cypriot AA fire on 20th July 1974. Salvaged

* THK C-160D (221.Filo)- Damaged by Greek-Cypriot AA fire on 20th July 1974. Salvaged

* 10 x 2nd Army UH-1H - Damaged by Greek Cypriot ground fire on 20th July 1974. Salvaged.

* THK F-100D (55-3756 of 171.Filo)- Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 20th July 1974

* THK F-100C (54-2042 of 132.Filo)- Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 20th July 1974

* RF-84F (184. Filo)- Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 20th July 1974

* THK Dornier Do-28D - Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 20th July 1974

* THK F-104G (64-17783 of 191.Filo)- Shot down by Turkish naval AA fire? 21st July 1974

* THK F-100D (55-2825 of 111. Filo)- Shot down by Turkish naval AA fire? 21st July 1974

* THK F-100C (54-2083 of 112.Filo)- Shot down by Turkish naval AA fire? 21st July 1974

* THK F-100 (serial / squadron?)- Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 21st July 1974

* THK F-100 (serial / squadron?)- Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 21st July 1974

* THK F-100D (54-2238 of 172.Filo)- Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 22nd July 1974

* THK F-100D (54-22?? of 171.Filo)- Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 22nd July 1974

* THK F-100C (serial / squadron?)- Crashed in landing accident. 22nd July 1974

* THK F-102A (55-3413 of ???.Filo)- Crashed in landing accident. 22nd July 1974

* THK F-102A (54-1403 of 142. Filo)- Claimed shot down with AIM-9B Sidewinder by F-5A (66-9137) of the EPA, piloted by G.Dinopolous of 337MAH. Disputed. 22nd July 1974

* THK F-102A (55-3413 of 142. Filo)- Claimed destroyed due to fuel starvation after engagement with F-5A (66-9137) and F-5A (63-8414) of EPA, piloted by G.Dinopolous and T.Scabardonis of 337MAH. Disputed. 22nd July 1974.

* THK F-102A (54-1403 of 142.Filo)- Crashed in take-off accident. 23rd July 1974.

[edit] Reported Military Losses of the Turkish Navy

This information is supplied from reported sources and does NOT constitute a thorough or complete survey of the military losses in the conflict. Military secrecy by the combatants of the period, continuing today, means that this information is derived largely from what civilian media reports are available from the period.

* The Turkish Navy destroyer D-354 Kocatepe was erroneously sunk by Turkish fighter aircraft on 21st July 1974.

* The Turkish Navy destroyer D-353 Adatepe was erroneously damaged by Turkish fighter aircraft on 21st July 1974.

* The Turkish Navy destroyer D-355 Tinaztepe was erroneously damaged by Turkish fighter aircraft on 21st July 1974.

WHAT A GREAT EFFORT BY THE GREAT TURKISH ARMY-FIGHTING AGAINST A SMALL ISLAND WITH NO NATIONAL GUARD AT ITS PROPER POSTINGS...PICK ON SOMEBODY YOUR SIZE...IF YOU HAVE THE GUTS

[Guy]

ozz- wrote:

Reported Military Losses of the Turkish Air Force
This information is supplied from reported sources and does NOT constitute a thorough or complete survey of the military losses in the conflict. Military secrecy by the combatants of the period, continuing today, means that this information is derived largely from what civilian media reports are available from the period.
* THK C-47 No. 6035 - Damaged by Greek-Cypriot AA fire on 20th July 1974. Salvaged
* THK C-130 (222.Filo)- Damaged by Greek-Cypriot AA fire on 20th July 1974. Salvaged
* THK C-160D (221.Filo)- Damaged by Greek-Cypriot AA fire on 20th July 1974. Salvaged
* 10 x 2nd Army UH-1H - Damaged by Greek Cypriot ground fire on 20th July 1974. Salvaged.
* THK F-100D (55-3756 of 171.Filo)- Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 20th July 1974
* THK F-100C (54-2042 of 132.Filo)- Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 20th July 1974
* RF-84F (184. Filo)- Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 20th July 1974
* THK Dornier Do-28D - Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 20th July 1974
* THK F-104G (64-17783 of 191.Filo)- Shot down by Turkish naval AA fire? 21st July 1974
* THK F-100D (55-2825 of 111. Filo)- Shot down by Turkish naval AA fire? 21st July 1974
* THK F-100C (54-2083 of 112.Filo)- Shot down by Turkish naval AA fire? 21st July 1974
* THK F-100 (serial / squadron?)- Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 21st July 1974
* THK F-100 (serial / squadron?)- Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 21st July 1974
* THK F-100D (54-2238 of 172.Filo)- Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 22nd July 1974
* THK F-100D (54-22?? of 171.Filo)- Shot down by Greek Cypriot AA fire. 22nd July 1974
* THK F-100C (serial / squadron?)- Crashed in landing accident. 22nd July 1974
* THK F-102A (55-3413 of ???.Filo)- Crashed in landing accident. 22nd July 1974
* THK F-102A (54-1403 of 142. Filo)- Claimed shot down with AIM-9B Sidewinder by F-5A (66-9137) of the EPA, piloted by G.Dinopolous of 337MAH. Disputed. 22nd July 1974
* THK F-102A (55-3413 of 142. Filo)- Claimed destroyed due to fuel starvation after engagement with F-5A (66-9137) and F-5A (63-8414) of EPA, piloted by G.Dinopolous and T.Scabardonis of 337MAH. Disputed. 22nd July 1974.
* THK F-102A (54-1403 of 142.Filo)- Crashed in take-off accident. 23rd July 1974.
[edit] Reported Military Losses of the Turkish Navy
This information is supplied from reported sources and does NOT constitute a thorough or complete survey of the military losses in the conflict. Military secrecy by the combatants of the period, continuing today, means that this information is derived largely from what civilian media reports are available from the period.
* The Turkish Navy destroyer D-354 Kocatepe was erroneously sunk by Turkish fighter aircraft on 21st July 1974.
* The Turkish Navy destroyer D-353 Adatepe was erroneously damaged by Turkish fighter aircraft on 21st July 1974.
* The Turkish Navy destroyer D-355 Tinaztepe was erroneously damaged by Turkish fighter aircraft on 21st July 1974.
WHAT A GREAT EFFORT BY THE GREAT TURKISH ARMY-FIGHTING AGAINST A SMALL ISLAND WITH NO NATIONAL GUARD AT ITS PROPER POSTINGS...PICK ON SOMEBODY YOUR SIZE...IF YOU HAVE THE GUTS

.WOW.WOW.WOW.WOW. so you know how to google,One question though? DOES IT ALTER THE FACTS???, er No. It dont

[ozz-]

no it does not ibne, but that was not the intention..

[Guy]

ozz- wrote:

no it does not ibne, but that was not the intention..

So it was a pointless post, glad that we've cleared that up..P.S.wanna buy some land in Kuzey Kibris???

[Turko]

FromACountryFarFarAway wrote:

Hitler's German army was playing a different ball game at the time. It is true that Greece didn't last five days against German Panzer divisions, but it is also a fact that Turkey could not afford a conventional warfare against Germany either. Turkish army was mostly infantry with artillery force left from WW1, German army had armored mobile divisions. Armor piercing equipment is needed to penetrate that kind of a force and neither Greece, nor Turkey had that kind of equipment. Turkey didn't have an air force either, only scout planes which would not stand a chance against Luftwaffe (German airforce). Shortly, in terms of conventional warfare, Turkey also would not stand much againist WII Germany.
I would like to add something here before I continue with inital topic. It is not much known, but Germany had three invasion plans. First one was called Sea Lion, which is a plan about invading England. This never happened and stand as bogus to just occupy England busy and concerned about having invasion in their own soil. There are two reasons of not going through this operation. First, England didn't have much natural resources (Germany was seeking natural resources for "Father Land" at that time), second it would not be that easy to bring England down to it's knees. It would cost dearly to Germany. Second plan was, as all know, marching to Stalingrad over Ukraine. And there was a third plan, which was going through Turkey (to Stalingrad and Moscow). Turkey reached this information through high rank German officers who refuge during German fall. Why this invasion didn't happen ? By all means it is a long story, but shortly German generals knew the potential of Turkish resistance and militia. Turkey didn't have armor piercing equipment or anti-aircraft guns, but had experianced soldiers who knew terrain very well. It would be impossible to maintain the supply chain and logistics.
effecting both countries. Just look at the proportion of military investment on both countries GDP's. It's huge. Turkey is neighboring Iraq, Iran, Syria.. The most unstable countries in the world. Turkey somehow needs to maintain a strong military force, but Greece is investing only against an artificial fear against Turkey. Turkey will never invade Greece. And it doesn't matter how much Greece invests on warfare, Greece cannot be a threat to Turkey. Turkish population is seven times, economy is four times larger than Greece. This is reality. I really hope both countries would come to their senses and work on to develop peace as well as trade and tourism.
Some corporations/groups are making huge revenue by maintaining this hatred between two nations. Both sides should drop "Turks are like this...Greeks are like that" talk. That is what we are all expected to do.

Sensible Post, i will agree with your ww11 observation,
How ever like some over grown school children
i fallen victim to a stupid debate about which country out of Greece and Turkey is the more equipped and superior power,
just a silly thread,
I like your observation

[ozz-]

Guy wrote:

<quoted text>So it was a pointless post, glad that we've cleared that up..P.S.wanna buy some land in Kuzey Kibris???

Sure...why not IBNE !!!..DO YOU HAVE THE TITLE DEEDS? I heard it is stolen land!! On second thoughts..for a quick sale-try the British...they are the biggest suckers!!

[ozz-]

Not that it matters much but Greece fell in 24 days and not 5. In contrast Poland fell in 3 days, Hungary 4 days. The significant part Greece played is that it delayed the Germans in the invasion of Russia..

[Guy]

ozz- wrote:

<quoted text>
Sure...why not IBNE !!!..DO YOU HAVE THE TITLE DEEDS? I heard it is stolen land!! On second thoughts..for a quick sale-try the British...they are the biggest suckers!!

Tell me about it and Yup, have all the Title Deeds, PTP shouldnt be a problem either.

[ozz-]

FromACountryFarFarAway wrote:

Hitler's German army was playing a different ball game at the time. It is true that Greece didn't last five days against German Panzer divisions, but it is also a fact that Turkey could not afford a conventional warfare against Germany either. Turkish army was mostly infantry with artillery force left from WW1, German army had armored mobile divisions. Armor piercing equipment is needed to penetrate that kind of a force and neither Greece, nor Turkey had that kind of equipment. Turkey didn't have an air force either, only scout planes which would not stand a chance against Luftwaffe (German airforce). Shortly, in terms of conventional warfare, Turkey also would not stand much againist WII Germany.
I would like to add something here before I continue with inital topic. It is not much known, but Germany had three invasion plans. First one was called Sea Lion, which is a plan about invading England. This never happened and stand as bogus to just occupy England busy and concerned about having invasion in their own soil. There are two reasons of not going through this operation..

Turkey entered the second world war symbolically on the side of the allied forces, during the last few official days of the war. Turkey did not participate on any active war front during this war. The reason, if I am not mistaken, was to be identified with the winning side and somewhat erase the losing image left from the first world war.

[ozz-]

Guy wrote:

<quoted text>Tell me about it and Yup, have all the Title Deeds, PTP shouldnt be a problem either.

I am sure you do...all authenticated of course...Its amazing what digital technology and a signiture from the Muhktar can do these days..like i said...try the brits!!!