Taiwan: Chinese are too poor to affor...
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AAA

Singapore, Singapore

#42 Apr 1, 2014
Juran wrote:
<quoted text>
When a lie is repeated so many times and by so many people, people take it for granted it's true. Where did you hear that China has missiles pointing at Taiwan? How trustworthy were those so called "reports"?
My point is China and Taiwan needs to remove all hostility. At the moment, public opinion in Taiwan is governed by irrationality and that is very easy for DPP or US or Japan to divide and conquer. My opinion is CSSTA is beneficial to Taiwan, China has yet to grant any other country such a favourable deal. But somehow the message is not getting to the students and public. They are simply not listening, just ask how many students know the content of CSSTA?

If there is no missile pointing at Taiwan, good, but key thing is to keep removing obstacles.

Since: Mar 08

Mississauga, Canada

#43 Apr 1, 2014
McGold wrote:
Sorry, I don't trust media. I've seen this kind of "news", and the number varies from 1400 to 2000. I am not so gullible to believe something like this. I think the same newspapers also said Saddam had WMDs.

Since: Mar 08

Mississauga, Canada

#44 Apr 1, 2014
AAA wrote:
<quoted text>
My point is China and Taiwan needs to remove all hostility. At the moment, public opinion in Taiwan is governed by irrationality and that is very easy for DPP or US or Japan to divide and conquer. My opinion is CSSTA is beneficial to Taiwan, China has yet to grant any other country such a favourable deal. But somehow the message is not getting to the students and public. They are simply not listening, just ask how many students know the content of CSSTA?
If there is no missile pointing at Taiwan, good, but key thing is to keep removing obstacles.
Totally agree. I bet most students don't know much. It's just "cool" to protest.
However, some obstacles cannot be removed:
- Opposition party. I watched ECFA debate a few years ago. It was simply a knockout. I, without knowing a lot of details of the ECFA, knew Ma won the debate. Right now, there's no debate. Taiwan's so-called democracy is different from Canada's. To me, it's a farce.
- US's interests. It's always beneficial to US if China and Taiwan maintain the status quo. US military sales have been dithering in the past decade. From 2004 to 2007, US sold $4.3B worth of weapons to Taiwan; but between 2008 and 2011, only $2.9B worth of weapons were sold. China and Taiwan have been getting closer. It might be a good thing for both China and Taiwan; but to US, it may not.
Gengis khan

Palmerston North, New Zealand

#45 Apr 1, 2014
AAA wrote:
<quoted text>
My point is China and Taiwan needs to remove all hostility. At the moment, public opinion in Taiwan is governed by irrationality and that is very easy for DPP or US or Japan to divide and conquer. My opinion is CSSTA is beneficial to Taiwan, China has yet to grant any other country such a favourable deal. But somehow the message is not getting to the students and public. They are simply not listening, just ask how many students know the content of CSSTA?
If there is no missile pointing at Taiwan, good, but key thing is to keep removing obstacles.
Triple, you are losing your touch, This would be you most insipid post yet,, shame.
You say Taiwanese public opinion is governed by "irrationality"?. I think you are looking through very RED tinted glasses.
read this, it is just the last part of their demands(you can easily google the rest of it if you like)

This crisis is not rooted in the whys and wherefores of the service trade agreement, nor is it born of Jiang’s willful intransigence. The root cause is Ma’s autocratic, dictatorial behavior, and his actions that have threatened the very survival of this country and the orderly operation of constitutional government in a free democracy.
He has proven himself unfit to be president.
The association calls on Ma, the main instigator of the mess we are in, to resign with immediate effect, and for constitutional interim provisions to be made. We need to uphold democratic principles, convene a conference on civil society and the Constitution, and then hold another presidential election, to set this country back on the path of democracy and freedom.
Taiwan Association of University Professors
and if you would read other than Xinhua, you might learn more about DPP. This from another of your old friends
The DPP’s counterproposal to the service trade agreement has been relatively underreported since the student movement became the center of attention two weeks ago, DPP Department of China Affairs director Honigmann Hong (&#27946;&#36001;& #38534;) said.
After a comprehensive review and discussion with its think tank, the party recommended that at least 24 items on the trade agreement’s sector-specific commitment list — including banking, printing and publishing, and Type II telecommunications — should be reconsidered, he said.
Hong added that the DPP has never opposed free trade and signing free-trade agreements with other countries, but pursuing trade liberalization with China — which has not ruled out annexing Taiwan by force if necessary — requires greater scrutiny and transparency.
About the missiles Triple,, hardly a week goes by when china doesn't mention them, or adds to the number, or replaces them with more modern.

But I have to commend you in your (deliberate?) choice of words,,, China has yet to grant any other country such a favourable deal. yes,, Taiwan IS a country, and you use the word(hopefully for you I suspect) "unification" instead of reunification, as you know that Taiwan has never been part of china
Keep up the good work of making people aware of TAIWAN
AAA

Singapore, Singapore

#46 Apr 2, 2014
Gengis khan wrote:
<quoted text>
Triple, you are losing your touch, This would be you most insipid post yet,, shame.
You say Taiwanese public opinion is governed by "irrationality"?. I think you are looking through very RED tinted glasses.
read this, it is just the last part of their demands(you can easily google the rest of it if you like)
This crisis is not rooted in the whys and wherefores of the service trade agreement, nor is it born of Jiang’s willful intransigence. The root cause is Ma’s autocratic, dictatorial behavior, and his actions that have threatened the very survival of this country and the orderly operation of constitutional government in a free democracy.
He has proven himself unfit to be president.
The association calls on Ma, the main instigator of the mess we are in, to resign with immediate effect, and for constitutional interim provisions to be made. We need to uphold democratic principles, convene a conference on civil society and the Constitution, and then hold another presidential election, to set this country back on the path of democracy and freedom.
Taiwan Association of University Professors
and if you would read other than Xinhua, you might learn more about DPP. This from another of your old friends
The DPP’s counterproposal to the service trade agreement has been relatively underreported since the student movement became the center of attention two weeks ago, DPP Department of China Affairs director Honigmann Hong (&#27946;&#36001;& #38534;) said.
After a comprehensive review and discussion with its think tank, the party recommended that at least 24 items on the trade agreement’s sector-specific commitment list — including banking, printing and publishing, and Type II telecommunications — should be reconsidered, he said.
Hong added that the DPP has never opposed free trade and signing free-trade agreements with other countries, but pursuing trade liberalization with China — which has not ruled out annexing Taiwan by force if necessary — requires greater scrutiny and transparency.

But I have to commend you in your (deliberate?) choice of words,,, China has yet to grant any other country such a favourable deal. yes,, Taiwan IS a country, and you use the word(hopefully for you I suspect) "unification" instead of reunification, as you know that Taiwan has never been part of china
Keep up the good work of making people aware of TAIWAN
Country? Sure, for all intended purpose, Taiwan is independent. The idea of independent is great, but the reality is that it is not a feasible solution.

Hey, I am all for a strong government, strong legislative and executive councils, strong president. Call that autocratic if you like. If you have all that, then there is hardly any reason for students to sit in the legislative council. Taiwan's democracy is a joke. If you truly want democracy, then you have to respect the process, and let the legislative council do its jobs. Not happy with the council's decision? vote the Councillors out next time. Not happy with president Ma? vote him out next time. Not happy with the political system? vote for change. That my friend is democracy. Protests, fightings in parliament and disruptions are not great attributes of democracy. Also, democracy does not mean people on the streets all the time and it is definitely not having a referendum on every issue. If you do that, then Taiwanese will forever be lobbying and voting, giving no time nor energy to carry out the process.

Remember one word...STABILITY, it is the one crucial element for growth and progress. Look at Singapore, limited democracy, but one of the richest nation on per capita basis in the world despite no natural resource.

Remember when Taiwanese called Lee Teng Hui a dictator, he said Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew is worse than him. If that is the case, I would rather have a dictator in Taiwan.
RayH

Shenzhen, China

#48 Apr 2, 2014
AAA wrote:
<quoted text>
Country? Sure, for all intended purpose, Taiwan is independent. The idea of independent is great, but the reality is that it is not a feasible solution.
Hey, I am all for a strong government, strong legislative and executive councils, strong president. Call that autocratic if you like. If you have all that, then there is hardly any reason for students to sit in the legislative council. Taiwan's democracy is a joke. If you truly want democracy, then you have to respect the process, and let the legislative council do its jobs. Not happy with the council's decision? vote the Councillors out next time. Not happy with president Ma? vote him out next time. Not happy with the political system? vote for change. That my friend is democracy. Protests, fightings in parliament and disruptions are not great attributes of democracy. Also, democracy does not mean people on the streets all the time and it is definitely not having a referendum on every issue. If you do that, then Taiwanese will forever be lobbying and voting, giving no time nor energy to carry out the process.
Remember one word...STABILITY, it is the one crucial element for growth and progress. Look at Singapore, limited democracy, but one of the richest nation on per capita basis in the world despite no natural resource.
Remember when Taiwanese called Lee Teng Hui a dictator, he said Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew is worse than him. If that is the case, I would rather have a dictator in Taiwan.
Think those students in Taiwan have "democracy" confused with "mob rule."
Gengis khan

Palmerston North, New Zealand

#49 Apr 2, 2014
RayH wrote:
<quoted text>
Think those students in Taiwan have "democracy" confused with "mob rule."
Thinking is an exercise that is bad for you RayHole, try scratching instead.
Gengis khan

Palmerston North, New Zealand

#50 Apr 2, 2014
AAA wrote:
<quoted text>
Country? Sure, for all intended purpose, Taiwan is independent. The idea of independent is great, but the reality is that it is not a feasible solution.
Hey, I am all for a strong government, strong legislative and executive councils, strong president. Call that autocratic if you like. If you have all that, then there is hardly any reason for students to sit in the legislative council. Taiwan's democracy is a joke. If you truly want democracy, then you have to respect the process, and let the legislative council do its jobs. Not happy with the council's decision? vote the Councillors out next time. Not happy with president Ma? vote him out next time. Not happy with the political system? vote for change. That my friend is democracy. Protests, fightings in parliament and disruptions are not great attributes of democracy. Also, democracy does not mean people on the streets all the time and it is definitely not having a referendum on every issue. If you do that, then Taiwanese will forever be lobbying and voting, giving no time nor energy to carry out the process.
Remember one word...STABILITY, it is the one crucial element for growth and progress. Look at Singapore, limited democracy, but one of the richest nation on per capita basis in the world despite no natural resource.
Remember when Taiwanese called Lee Teng Hui a dictator, he said Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew is worse than him. If that is the case, I would rather have a dictator in Taiwan.
Drastic times call for drastic measures Triple. Our 9% president is flouting his own constitution, passing illegal bills, and selling our sovereignty to an evil foreign country.

“Hello everyone!”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#51 Apr 2, 2014
McSilver wrote:
<quoted text>Taiwan has the right to reject trade pact with China.
Taiwan even has the right to point rockets at China too.
AAA

Singapore, Singapore

#53 Apr 2, 2014
Gengis khan wrote:
<quoted text>
Drastic times call for drastic measures Triple. Our 9% president is flouting his own constitution, passing illegal bills, and selling our sovereignty to an evil foreign country.
Yeah, but the students's voice has been heard loud and clear and there has been compromise, so the students must return the legislative council to the people of Taiwan. Can't expect Ma to agree to every point, besides it is not Ma's call alone. This incident also has element of KMT political infighting between Ma and head of legislative council Wang Jin Ping, so it's not that simple.

You people has to stop that yi shi xing tai. All the fear mongerings, e.g. San tong, about China have so far failed to materialise. Singapore is even smaller than China, how come they are not worry about FTA with China. In UK, we fight to have FTA with China, as do many other countries. In fact Taiwan itself excels in free trade, so why worry about mainland Chinese. If Taiwan wants to be in the global free trade, it needs to grow up. Shutting Taiwan out from the world is like Qing dynasty or Japan before Meiji restoration. You won't be able to export your service and goods to the world with no or fair duty, the Korean will have pricing advantage over you. Taiwanese companies will have to abandon Taiwan to domicile in other countries in order to take advantage of free trades. That will be bye bye to jobs and entrepreneurship in Taiwan.
AAA

Singapore, Singapore

#54 Apr 2, 2014
Mr Pip wrote:
<quoted text>
Taiwan even has the right to point rockets at China too.
They already did. Hence the need to build mutual trust and remove all hostilities.
Gengis khan

Palmerston North, New Zealand

#55 Apr 2, 2014
AAA wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, but the students's voice has been heard loud and clear and there has been compromise, so the students must return the legislative council to the people of Taiwan. Can't expect Ma to agree to every point, besides it is not Ma's call alone. This incident also has element of KMT political infighting between Ma and head of legislative council Wang Jin Ping, so it's not that simple.
You people has to stop that yi shi xing tai. All the fear mongerings, e.g. San tong, about China have so far failed to materialise. Singapore is even smaller than China, how come they are not worry about FTA with China. In UK, we fight to have FTA with China, as do many other countries. In fact Taiwan itself excels in free trade, so why worry about mainland Chinese. If Taiwan wants to be in the global free trade, it needs to grow up. Shutting Taiwan out from the world is like Qing dynasty or Japan before Meiji restoration. You won't be able to export your service and goods to the world with no or fair duty, the Korean will have pricing advantage over you. Taiwanese companies will have to abandon Taiwan to domicile in other countries in order to take advantage of free trades. That will be bye bye to jobs and entrepreneurship in Taiwan.
Triple,
I thought you got it the first time,,, the protest is not about trade, it is about china's self professed aim of taking over Taiwan, it is about losing our sovereignty. Ma is selling us out.
Singapore or Korea don't have this threat. Our situation is unique.
We are fighting for our identity and country
AAA

Singapore, Singapore

#56 Apr 2, 2014
Gengis khan wrote:
<quoted text>
Triple,
I thought you got it the first time,,, the protest is not about trade, it is about china's self professed aim of taking over Taiwan, it is about losing our sovereignty. Ma is selling us out.
Singapore or Korea don't have this threat. Our situation is unique.
We are fighting for our identity and country
It is fear...the uncertainties of further interaction with mainland China, and DPP is exploiting that. Personally I don't have any worry on closer cross strait relation, in fact what China offers to Taiwan will almost definitely be more generous than Hong Kong. You have to understand China's aim is to keep Taiwanese happy within the family. Today, Hong Kong people for all intended purpose retain their identity, but with full access to Chinese massive market. Not just Hong Kong businesses benefit, Hong Kong's top universities also absorbs the best students from China, even its successful table tennis team is made up of mainland Chinese.

Even Singapore wants all that. What they don't like, and probably Singaporeans and people round the world, are mainland Chinese bad personal habits and arrogance from growing wealth. But that is a passing phase, which Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan and Singaporeans all been through.

If Taiwanese do not have the courage to confront the uncertainties, there will never be a breakthrough. Embrace change, manage change, not fight change. Look at Taiwan's history...fear from Japanese occupation after Jia Wu war, fear from Qing dynasty during Kang Xi's reign, and the Dutch, Portugal, Zheng Chenggong from end of Ming Dynasty. In all cases, there were fears of uncertainty, but after initial struggles, all these occupations brought experience and benefits to Taiwan and define what Taiwan is today.
Henry

Vancouver, Canada

#57 Apr 6, 2014
See how Taiwan TV programs spread false information to put down Chinese in the mainland:

Link_http://tuku
.military.china.com/military/h tml/2014-04-03/223198_2478431. htm
AAA

Singapore, Singapore

#58 Apr 6, 2014
Henry wrote:
See how Taiwan TV programs spread false information to put down Chinese in the mainland:
Link_http://tuku
.military.china.com/military/h tml/2014-04-03/223198_2478431. htm
Dear, DPP media so desc....there are soooo many media in Taiwan and with sooo many different perspective, you choose what you want to read and believe.

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