1904 China map admits Paracel, Spratl...
AAA

Whitchurch, UK

#42 Aug 25, 2013
McQuan wrote:
<quoted text>
Qing dynasty map shows no China claim in Spratlys
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/global-filipino/wo...
Which qing dynasty map? I thought nine dash was based on KMT map drawn up after the Potsdam and Cairo declaration
McQuan

Montréal, Canada

#43 Aug 25, 2013

Since: Nov 10

Zhengzhou, China

#44 Aug 26, 2013
Qing dynasty had less instrument and incompetent professionals to do the job.

Cartography was also raw and rough, some of projects were rule of thum.

you can not take that out as a basis.
AAA

Henfield, UK

#45 Aug 26, 2013
McQuan wrote:
http://chinaterritory.blogspot .ca/
CHINATERRITORY.COM
The 11 or 9 dash line KMT map is from 1948 much more recent, and there was a 1958 letter from VN PM Pham Van Dong to Zhou En-lai, acknowledging China's sovereignty on paracel. Either way a battle was fought in 1974 and China won, annexing paracel, unless of course Vietnam starts another war to take it back.

At least Vietnam and China are discussing history, which is positive development. Philippines is still onto UNCLOS and nonsense, thinking that no one owns Spratly so that it can claim it all.
Syria before China

Potomac, MD

#46 Aug 26, 2013
China and Spratly islands make ASEANS stronger and they will side with the U.S...China will be more isolated and the biggest loser!
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE

Richmond, Canada

#47 Aug 26, 2013
SpongeBob wrote:
<quoted text>If an aggressive Forces occupies a Foreign land for...A FEW WEEKS THEN WITHDRAW, people don't name it as...victory but as...BLOODY NOSE, A HARD LESSON, instead. Look at VN occupied Cambodia for 10 years during that time, but Vietnamese didn't say that was their military victory, they called it as BROTHERHOOD RESCUE, toppling Polpot Khmer Rouge and save millions of Khmer... lives...
read my article again dummy...

China took Vietnamese land and did not give it back until after Vietnam left Cambodia

after Vietnam came begging back to China
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE

Richmond, Canada

#49 Aug 26, 2013
Syria before China wrote:
China and Spratly islands make ASEANS stronger and they will side with the U.S...China will be more isolated and the biggest loser!
lots of Vietnamese in this thread...

talking big

..
.
Vietnam should reproach itself for letting Chinese goods dominate market

VietNamNet Bridge – The lack of the technical barriers has created a “flat word” which paves the way for Chinese low quality goods to penetrate the domestic market.

Vietnam inferior in official two-way trade…

Chinese goods -- from food, household goods to materials and machines, have been flowing to Vietnam through different channels, either through official channels or across the borders.

A report of the Ministry of Industry and Trade showed that Vietnam imported $40.2 billion worth of goods in the first 4 months of 2013. Of this amount,$10 billion worth of goods came from China, the biggest market.

Meanwhile, only $3.9 billion worth of Vietnamese products went to China, which means the trade deficit of $6 billion in the first 4 months of 2013.

Dao Ngoc Chuong, Deputy Director of the Asia-Pacific Department under the Ministry of Industry and Trade, noted that the majority of imports are the input materials for domestic industrial production. Meanwhile, Vietnam’s export items are mostly natural minerals like crude oil or coal.

The exports of the products have decreased recently under the Vietnamese policy on reducing the exports of the minerals and reserving for domestic production.

Vo Tri Thanh, Deputy Head of the Central Institute for Economic Management,(CIEM) noted that the big imports of intermediate products (which are the input materials for making finished products) showed the heavy reliance of the Vietnamese economy on Chinese products.

He has warned that if China stops exporting goods to Vietnam one day, Vietnamese enterprises, especially small and medium ones, would be put on the point of death, because they have no alternative material supply sources.

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/fms/business/747...
Hui

Padstow, Australia

#51 Aug 26, 2013
McQuan wrote:
http://chinaterritory.blogspot .ca/
CHINATERRITORY.COM
real china territories is inside the great wall the rest stolen from its neighbors

Since: Nov 10

Xuchang, China

#52 Aug 26, 2013
your words look like that from front soviet.
totally ridiculous.
McGold

Montréal, Canada

#53 Apr 8, 2014
New China wrote:
Qing dynasty had less instrument and incompetent professionals to do the job.
Cartography was also raw and rough, some of projects were rule of thum.
you can not take that out as a basis.
You don't need scientists to draw a map telling people that this island and that island belongs to you. Qing dynasty could do maps too. No ?
AAA

Sutton, UK

#54 Apr 8, 2014
McGold wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't need scientists to draw a map telling people that this island and that island belongs to you. Qing dynasty could do maps too. No ?
9 dash line is a KMT map drawn after WWII, not Qing dynasty, no?
McGold

Montréal, Canada

#55 Apr 8, 2014
AAA wrote:
<quoted text>
9 dash line is a KMT map drawn after WWII, not Qing dynasty, no?
Tomorrow some body here can draw a map with 18 dash lines representing an elephant tongue out of the blue too. But the Qing dynasty's map is still a valid argument and shows people that in their times China didn't have the paracels and the Spratlys. So conclusion, the KMT must have made it up.
AAA

Sutton, UK

#56 Apr 8, 2014
McGold wrote:
<quoted text>
Tomorrow some body here can draw a map with 18 dash lines representing an elephant tongue out of the blue too. But the Qing dynasty's map is still a valid argument and shows people that in their times China didn't have the paracels and the Spratlys. So conclusion, the KMT must have made it up.
Why don't you draw one with 18 dash lines, if that is the case? The 9 dash lines were drawn up by KMT at the end of WWII following Potsdam and Cairo declaration. A KMT general put sovereignty markers on hundreds of pieces in SCS. Today, Taiwan continues to occupied the largest island in SCS, the Taiping island. It is the only habitable island with fresh water.

Whereas Philippines has no map and is still trying to draw a map today, eh with 18 dashes as you suggested. If you draw one tonight, I get my granddaughter to colour it for you. So conclusion is you can indeed made it up and get a six years old to colour it for you. The question is whether you have enough history to back it up and how to enforce it.
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE

Richmond, Canada

#57 Apr 12, 2014
in 1905 China was still being occupied and influenced by western powers

so we go by there maps, just before western colonials came, control fluctuated back and forth with other powers in the region China included

like the map from the 1700s presented to the Chinese from the Germans showing China owning more sea and land than today

in the future as China occupies and takes back land and water

years from now people will probably go off of the new maps they make today
McGold

Montréal, Canada

#58 Apr 12, 2014
In 1904, China was occupied partially by western powers so people went by their maps. This I agree. But this map had been prepared by the Qing since 1708 up to 1904 when it was completed. So it's a Chinese map.

http://defence.pk/threads/1904-china-map-admi...

Quote :
..... colored-paper map was made during the Qing Dynasty era and published by the Shanghai Publishing House.

Hong said the Chinese descriptions on the map indicate it took from 1708 to 1904, from the time of Emperor Guangxi to that of Guangxu, to complete it.

The kings sent scholars and experts, including Westerners such as Johann Adam Schall von Bell and Ferdinand Verbiest, to all of China's then 13 provinces for the task, he said.

The foreword was written by the then director of an observatory.

unquote

“To be or not to be”

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#59 May 15, 2014
McGold wrote:
In 1904, China was occupied partially by western powers so people went by their maps. This I agree. But this map had been prepared by the Qing since 1708 up to 1904 when it was completed. So it's a Chinese map.
http://defence.pk/threads/1904-china-map-admi...
Quote :
..... colored-paper map was made during the Qing Dynasty era and published by the Shanghai Publishing House.
Hong said the Chinese descriptions on the map indicate it took from 1708 to 1904, from the time of Emperor Guangxi to that of Guangxu, to complete it.
The kings sent scholars and experts, including Westerners such as Johann Adam Schall von Bell and Ferdinand Verbiest, to all of China's then 13 provinces for the task, he said.
The foreword was written by the then director of an observatory.
unquote
The link is a credible source since it comes from Pakistan.
It is so Amazing

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

#60 May 16, 2014
That is why a revived China will be seeking to recover very districts stolen by the foreign powers from the Qing Dynasty.

So WATCH OUT Vietnam, you may be re-annexed as ANNAM if Vietnamese continue to play with FIRE.

Those disputed islands are like credit card extended by the parent now cancelled because the rebellious daughter wanted INDEPENDENCE.
China is the PARENT. Try something even more rebellious and China (Motherland) will recovered the house she is squatting in meaning Vietnam (daughter).
McGold

Montréal, Canada

#61 May 16, 2014
It is so Amazing wrote:
That is why a revived China will be seeking to recover very districts stolen by the foreign powers from the Qing Dynasty.
So WATCH OUT Vietnam, you may be re-annexed as ANNAM if Vietnamese continue to play with FIRE.
Those disputed islands are like credit card extended by the parent now cancelled because the rebellious daughter wanted INDEPENDENCE.
China is the PARENT. Try something even more rebellious and China (Motherland) will recovered the house she is squatting in meaning Vietnam (daughter).
Isn't it amazing that people like to sing the same karaoke all the time. This is so because they know the lyrics by heart and their audience will surely applaud them. How about other people singing the same karaoke of their own like Japan will re-annex Manchuria and the UK will re-annex Hong Kong. Yes, all karaoke songs are good in their own ways.
Ok, you may sing your karaoke to the Hui of Malaysia and see if they like it.
SpongeBob

Windsor, Canada

#62 May 16, 2014
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE wrote:
<quoted text>
read my article again dummy...
China took Vietnamese land and did not give it back until after Vietnam left Cambodia
after Vietnam came begging back to China
Yeah, right on. I wish during 80s I could serve in North Front of VN instead of lurking along Thai border, chasing Polpot Forces. When most of my best buddies were airlifted to the North, all PLAs disappeared like...thin air. Otherwise there would be more PLA corpses laying around in Vietnam, NOT JUST MORE THAN 60THOUSANDS OF CASUALTIES WITHIN LESS THAN A MONTH IN CONFLICT. Wahahahaha!
RayH

Shenzhen, China

#63 May 16, 2014
Did Gramps draw that map, Spring Bob?

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