Fear of a Chinese Planet?

Chinese police at a border crossing with Russia Many foreign policy analysts in America and around the world perceive a growing alliance between Russia and China to counter U.S. influence. Full Story
Frank

Jamaica Plain, MA

#2989 Jul 30, 2008
Khatru wrote:
China more or less owns the USA as it is. It wouldn't take much for them to tip the once mighty US Dollar into the abyss. The thing is, they don't really have to as the dollar is regularly getting trashed on the stock exchanges.
Americans borrow money from China, so that they can buy goods made in China.
China has already won.
Won what? China and the United States are trading partners. There are differences between our nations for sure but we are not enemies. The US has said that it will defend Taiwan but in the end Taiwan will probably not need to be defended. They seem to be working things out with China. The west may continue to criticize China's human rights record, and rightly so I might add, but there will not be any kind of real conflict at any time in the near future. Both China and the US have far too much to lose from damaged relations.

“Llywelyn ap Gruffydd”

Since: Jul 08

Pontylottyn,Wales

#2990 Jul 30, 2008
Frank wrote:
<quoted text>
Won what? China and the United States are trading partners. There are differences between our nations for sure but we are not enemies. The US has said that it will defend Taiwan but in the end Taiwan will probably not need to be defended. They seem to be working things out with China. The west may continue to criticize China's human rights record, and rightly so I might add, but there will not be any kind of real conflict at any time in the near future. Both China and the US have far too much to lose from damaged relations.
actually the only reasons they attack chinas human right policy is because of tibet and the one child policy but they will be resolved in time
Frank

Jamaica Plain, MA

#2991 Jul 30, 2008
Welsh Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>actually the only reasons they attack chinas human right policy is because of tibet and the one child policy but they will be resolved in time
You're right both of these issues will likely be resolved. Don't forget press freedom though. That issue will need to be resolved as well and the west has every right to point it out just as many of us criticize our own governments. That doesn't mean, however that the west can do anything about it. As long as China minds its own business, which it pretty much does, than these issues must be seen as internal issues for the Chinese to resolve. I think human rights groups should speak out but beyond that western governments must not interfere. I'm assuming you we agree on this point.
China has also made a lot of progress and the Chinese government has been surprisingly open about the progress that it believes must still be made. I do give them credit for that.

“Llywelyn ap Gruffydd”

Since: Jul 08

Pontylottyn,Wales

#2992 Jul 30, 2008
Frank wrote:
<quoted text>
You're right both of these issues will likely be resolved. Don't forget press freedom though. That issue will need to be resolved as well and the west has every right to point it out just as many of us criticize our own governments. That doesn't mean, however that the west can do anything about it. As long as China minds its own business, which it pretty much does, than these issues must be seen as internal issues for the Chinese to resolve. I think human rights groups should speak out but beyond that western governments must not interfere. I'm assuming you we agree on this point.
China has also made a lot of progress and the Chinese government has been surprisingly open about the progress that it believes must still be made. I do give them credit for that.
yes as you said i agree with everyting you just said
Khatru

Grimsby, UK

#2993 Jul 30, 2008
Frank wrote:
<quoted text>
Won what? China and the United States are trading partners. There are differences between our nations for sure but we are not enemies. The US has said that it will defend Taiwan but in the end Taiwan will probably not need to be defended. They seem to be working things out with China. The west may continue to criticize China's human rights record, and rightly so I might add, but there will not be any kind of real conflict at any time in the near future. Both China and the US have far too much to lose from damaged relations.
Ok, perhaps the word "won" is the wrong choice. I used it in an attempt to engender some response from those that equate winning with military might. There are plenty of posts in here from people who think that way and I was simply trying to illustrate that force of arms isn't necessarily the way forward.

Your post makes much sense but I don't agree with what you say about China's human rights. Ok it's far from perfect, I'll give you that. We in the west are always making a big thing about people's human rights in China while we go about bombing people in Iraq.

Look at Saudi Arabia. Our goverments practically grovel before them but they are, after all, in our gang, so their appalling human rights record is rarely mentioned.

We whine and stamp our feet at Chinese oppression in Tibet. "Free Tibet!" is the cry from righteous people. What about "Free Texas"? Wasn't that land taken from Mexico? "Free the West!" - give the land back to the original Americans.

What human rights did we give to the thousands of Africans? Many years back when our countries were expanding, we went into Africa for its resources. We didn't ask, we just took - usually with our guns pointed at their heads.

Now China is after African resources to feed its expansion. But wait, what's this? China is actually PAYING for these resources or agreeing to invest in depressed areas of that nations infrastructure to do so. China is doing business in those places that the west long gave up as being hopeless. The knock-on effect of this is that these nations can act without relying on handouts from the west.

I'm not saying that Chinese investment is simply down to a benevolent Beijing but at least they are investing in these countries which is far more than we ever did.

In summary: The west forms its alliances, does its business and makes its money so often without consideration for the ethics behind these decisions. When a nation outside of "our gang" exhibits similar behaviour there is a moral outcry.

Frank

Jamaica Plain, MA

#2994 Jul 30, 2008
You make a good point and I won't argue with your position on the past abuses of western powers. Certainly in history the west has commited many more crimes than China but most of what you mentioned happened many years ago. Now I realize you've been responding to other posters, some of whom probably invision a conflict to come between China and the west and to the extent that western governments are hypocritical in their condemnation of China you are probably also correct. However, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are hardly arms of any western government. These and other groups have strongly condemned Saudi Arabia, Egypt and others. They have also criticized the United States and Britain for our conduct in the so called war on terror and civilian deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. So long as they maintain such objectivity then I would say they have every right to criticize China. You must also remember that I am not advocating the west do any more than just criticize. Nothing China has done would warrant any intervention. Most of these issues concern internal matters for the Chinese and you are absolutely right that the world is full of far worse offenders and nothing is done to stop them either.

Since: Mar 08

Long Island City, NY

#2995 Jul 30, 2008
Frank wrote:
However, Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are hardly arms of any western government.
Here is where you are wrong. Ever heard of NED, the Congress version of CIA aimed at overthrowing unfriendly government? The leadership of Human Rights Watch for example overlaps with the leadership of a NGO called "Human Rights in China" who recieves fund directly from NED. As for Amnesty International, its spoke person Louisa Coan, is also a NED program officer for Asia. There are direct links between these NGOs and the US government.

Below is a shortlist of NGO related to Tibet that are under NED wing.

International Campaign for Tibet
Tibet Information Network
Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Democracy
Tibet Justice Center
Tibetan Review
Tibet Fund
Tibetan Youth Congress
Tibet Times/Tibetan Literary Society
Frank

Jamaica Plain, MA

#2996 Jul 30, 2008
Zsari wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is where you are wrong. Ever heard of NED, the Congress version of CIA aimed at overthrowing unfriendly government? The leadership of Human Rights Watch for example overlaps with the leadership of a NGO called "Human Rights in China" who recieves fund directly from NED. As for Amnesty International, its spoke person Louisa Coan, is also a NED program officer for Asia. There are direct links between these NGOs and the US government.
Below is a shortlist of NGO related to Tibet that are under NED wing.
International Campaign for Tibet
Tibet Information Network
Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Democracy
Tibet Justice Center
Tibetan Review
Tibet Fund
Tibetan Youth Congress
Tibet Times/Tibetan Literary Society
Human Rights Watch has criticized the United States government harshly on many occasions. I'm familiar with the National Endowment for Democracy but if you think that lies are being told about Chin'a human rights record on behalf of NED then you are profoundly paranoid.
Frank

Jamaica Plain, MA

#2997 Jul 30, 2008
Zsari wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is where you are wrong. Ever heard of NED, the Congress version of CIA aimed at overthrowing unfriendly government? The leadership of Human Rights Watch for example overlaps with the leadership of a NGO called "Human Rights in China" who recieves fund directly from NED. As for Amnesty International, its spoke person Louisa Coan, is also a NED program officer for Asia. There are direct links between these NGOs and the US government.
Below is a shortlist of NGO related to Tibet that are under NED wing.
International Campaign for Tibet
Tibet Information Network
Tibetan Center for Human Rights and Democracy
Tibet Justice Center
Tibetan Review
Tibet Fund
Tibetan Youth Congress
Tibet Times/Tibetan Literary Society
I will concede that you are correct about Amnesty. They have not been impartial enough in the past.
One other thing. Louisa Coan is an advocate for human rights around the world. You can't blame her for that. She has held the positions of which you spoke at different times however.

Since: Mar 08

Long Island City, NY

#2998 Jul 30, 2008
Human Rights and Media Manipulation
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php...

Hijacking Human Rights
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/14804

“Privet”

Since: Apr 07

Big Lake, Alaska USA

#2999 Jul 30, 2008
Zsari wrote:
Human Rights and Media Manipulation
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php...
Hijacking Human Rights
http://www.zmag.org/znet/viewArticle/14804
So when is China going to start releasing all it's imprisoned journalist eh?

Comparing human rights in China vs the west is a joke if anything.

“Llywelyn ap Gruffydd”

Since: Jul 08

Pontylottyn,Wales

#3000 Jul 30, 2008
Right il end this now china though flawed is improving give it some time you cant just wave a magic wand then think everything is better it dont work like that and with the human right give them a few years and i can guarantee you it will be sorted

Since: Jul 08

Shenzhen, China

#3001 Jul 30, 2008
Why_Me wrote:
<quoted text>
So when is China going to start releasing all it's imprisoned journalist eh?
Comparing human rights in China vs the west is a joke if anything.
Please explain the meaning of 'human right' in USA?

“Thank you GOD for JESUS”

Since: Jul 07

And thank you JESUS for caring

#3002 Jul 30, 2008
Kylin wrote:
<quoted text>
That'untruth, I can write here shows that we can get informations other countries, you also can read chinese news in your country, but very little, because most of the media was controled by government(both in our side and your side),
about the salary, I only can tell you mine, I just an normal worker in an company, my salary is not stable, because I am a salesman, my average salary is 1500-2500CNY,If I got orders, my salary should be more,indeed my salary is very low.
so I should work hard,then I will get more, No pains, No gains.
In china it is equally between male and female,
also the salary, just like all the other countries.
I think your idea about china still stopped in 50 years ago?
About rich and poor, I think if I work hard, then I will be rich, if I am lazy, I will be poor..
Greetings to you Kylin, indeed it is good to see your postings. Most of us have no fear of China, and in fact, can see that there are huge leaps and bounds as far as progress goes. Each country has its' own problems, and there are the very rich, and the very poor, with the excuse of an average wage in between. There is no such thing as the average wage, it is just one way to justify the economics and the National debt of the countries that are supposedly rich, but are incredibly poor.

At the moment, I am living on no income, just drawing from my savings, but I am working for God, and I know He will take care of me. He always has, and it is easy for me to put all my Trust in Him, He already has all of my Faith....Serah
Veritas

Toronto, Canada

#3003 Jul 30, 2008
Why_Me wrote:
<quoted text>
So when is China going to start releasing all it's imprisoned journalist eh?
Comparing human rights in China vs the west is a joke if anything.
Just how many journalists are in prison? Journalists are allowed to report on certain issues that will not harm the establishment of the government. Any act(s) to cause insurrection is an act of sedition and will be reason for imprisonment.
China is a country of 1.2 billion people. Most are poor would you risk the lives of the majority when the country is on a course to better its people, abeit slowly.
Law and Order must be kept, even though it would seem that it is authoritarion. It's a slow process China is undertaking, but it's improving and progressing to alevel where China can intergrate into the world order of the Western nations.

Since: Jul 08

Guangzhou, China

#3004 Jul 30, 2008
Serah wrote:
<quoted text>
Greetings to you Kylin, indeed it is good to see your postings. Most of us have no fear of China, and in fact, can see that there are huge leaps and bounds as far as progress goes. Each country has its' own problems, and there are the very rich, and the very poor, with the excuse of an average wage in between. There is no such thing as the average wage, it is just one way to justify the economics and the National debt of the countries that are supposedly rich, but are incredibly poor.
At the moment, I am living on no income, just drawing from my savings, but I am working for God, and I know He will take care of me. He always has, and it is easy for me to put all my Trust in Him, He already has all of my Faith....Serah
You are a very kind man,you are the friend of God.

Nowadays many chinese people believe jesus,Islam Buddhism.

But I am confused so much..

Science told us there is no God in the world, I read Bible, also read science magazine, I want to know the truth of universe.

How could I make a choice? believe God or science?
It is a big problem for me now.
Truthbringer

Beijing, China

#3005 Jul 30, 2008
Actually, the U.S. owes billions of dollars, basically stolen. But even with that, America is going to end up short, because that is what happens if you want the whole country to live like kings compared to other countries, instead of spending more money on saving resources and construction.

“Privet”

Since: Apr 07

Big Lake, Alaska USA

#3006 Jul 31, 2008
Truthbringer wrote:
Actually, the U.S. owes billions of dollars, basically stolen. But even with that, America is going to end up short, because that is what happens if you want the whole country to live like kings compared to other countries, instead of spending more money on saving resources and construction.
Your correct. We should probably invest more money into slave labour camps like China. It would save us billions of dollars.

“Privet”

Since: Apr 07

Big Lake, Alaska USA

#3007 Jul 31, 2008
Kylin wrote:
<quoted text>
Please explain the meaning of 'human right' in USA?
Better yet how about you anser my question in my earlier post instead of doing the typical Chines thing and answering a question with another question.

"WHEN IS CHINA GOING TO RELAESE ALL IT'S JOURNALIST FROM PRISON"?

Since: Jul 08

Guangzhou, China

#3008 Jul 31, 2008
Why_Me wrote:
<quoted text>
Better yet how about you anser my question in my earlier post instead of doing the typical Chines thing and answering a question with another question.
"WHEN IS CHINA GOING TO RELAESE ALL IT'S JOURNALIST FROM PRISON"?
Because you have double standard while you talk about USA and china.

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