China's Water War against its neigbors?

China's Water War against its neigbors?

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Since: May 08

Hamilton, Canada

#1 Nov 23, 2010
The former senior vice-president of the World Bank was quoted several years ago as saying:‘The next World War will be over water.’

The reason for China's taking over Tibet is simple. The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has always referred to Tibet as China's Water Tower and considers its key to sustaining China's northwest in water, revitalising its deserts and the Yellow River itself, as well as being crucial to its Himalayan Strategy.

To guarantee China's water needs, Beijing's excessive and often disastrous policies seriously endanger the survival of hundreds of millions in countries downstream on trans-national rivers that rise in Tibet. One such plan is the unsustainable diversion of a river's flow into north western China. One of the many river is the Yarlung Tsangbo, that when crossing the Indian border, becomes the Brahmaputra.

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Zenom
==========
FREEDOM OF THOUGHT is The DNA of PROGRESS
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CCP Rules by BRUTE Force and LIES (By Hooks or By Crooks)
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Power Corrupts - Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely
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Since: May 08

Hamilton, Canada

#2 Nov 23, 2010
(Excerpts from the Economists & other reputable publications)

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Water for Food & Almost Everything Else
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People in temperate climates where the rain falls moderately all the year round may not realise how much water is needed for farming. In Britain, for example, farming takes only 3% of all water withdrawals. In the United States, by contrast, 41% goes for agriculture, almost all of it for irrigation. In China farming takes nearly 70%, and in India nearer 90%. For the world as a whole, agriculture accounts for almost 70%.

Farmers’ increasing demand for water is caused not only by the growing number of mouths to be fed but also by people’s desire for better-tasting, more interesting food. Unfortunately, it takes nearly twice as much water to grow a kilo of peanuts as a kilo of soyabeans, nearly four times as much to produce a kilo of beef as a kilo of chicken, and nearly five times as much to produce a glass of orange juice as a cup of tea. With 2 billion people around the world about to enter the middle class, the agricultural demands on water would increase even if the population stood still.

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Liquid asset or human right?
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Water is used not just to grow food but to make every kind of product, from microchips to steel girders. For example, it takes 23 tons of water to make one ton of steel in China!

Industrial use takes about 60% of water in rich countries and 10% in the rest. The difference in domestic use is much smaller, 11% and 8% respectively. Some of the variation is explained by capacious baths, power showers and flush lavatories in the rich world.

All humans need a basic minimum of two litres of water in food or drink each day, and for this there is no substitute.

Industry takes about 22% of the world’s withdrawals. Domestic activities take the other 8%. Together, the demands of these two categories quadrupled in the second half of the 20th century, growing twice as fast as those of farming, and forecasters see nothing but further increases in demand on all fronts.

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The supply of usable water is limited. The world will be short of water in 2025, or 2050.
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Zenom

Since: May 08

Hamilton, Canada

#3 Nov 23, 2010
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History - China's determination of getting Water from Tibet
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Initially referred to as the Shoutian Canal, the brainchild of hydro geologist Guo Kai caught the attention of the military in 1988.

1989: The "Preparatory Committee for the Shoutian Canal" was formed and headed by three senior generals.

Late 1990s: 208 NPC (National People's Congress) deputies and 118 CPPCC (Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference) delegates produced 16 proposals supporting the project.

1999: Jiang Zemin announced the "xibu da kaifa" (Great Western Extraction) that would transfer huge volumes of water from Tibet into the Yellow River. It was now fully supported by 118 generals, and the Politburo. It inspired Li Ling's book How Tibet's Water Will Save China, detailing Guo Kai's “Shuo-tian”(reverse flow) canal as the solution to chronic water shortages in China's dry north and northwest.

July 2003: Small article in the People's Daily "China to Conduct Feasibility Study on Hydropower Project in Tibet". Li Guoying director, Yellow River Water Conservancy Committee said "the project was essential because the Yellow River's current flow is being exhausted by development demands in western China".

November 2005: Strategy manual "Save China Through Water From Tibet" adopted by the PLA, relevant ministries and directorates.

February 2006: Detailed planning for the "Tsangpo Project" approved by State Council with the full support of Hu Jintao. Chief planner is Professor Chen Chuanyu.

End June 2006: Studies concluded on the potential of the lower reaches of the Yalung Tsangpo.

August 2006: Li Guoying, director, Yellow River Water Conservancy Committee:

… the (Yalung) project was essential because the Yellow River's current flow is being exhausted by development demands in western China … The route isn't especially long, but it's technologically challenging, and it's a matter of resolving the engineering and environmental questions. This project will be launched once the economic and social development of the NW reaches a certain level and the potential of water saving measures is exhausted. The Western Route is a firm plan and will go ahead ... CCP’s leaders and nearly all engineers, claim the W Route will fulfil promises to use rising economic and technological might to lift the less developed west.

October 2006: Beijing denied any support or approval for the "Tsangpo Project" but referred to Tibet as "an inexhaustible source of water". Construction was already scheduled to commence 2010 as part of the 100B Yuan Tibet capital works program.

October, 2007: General Zhao Nanqi said, "Even if we do not begin this water diversion project, the next generation will. Sooner or later it will be done".

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Zenom

Since: May 08

Hamilton, Canada

#4 Nov 24, 2010
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wars over water as it is becoming scarce.
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Today's nightmare is that water supplies are fast evaporating on account of population pressures, urbanization and now, climate change. No country is likely to be left untouched, but the great thirst will be felt the most in the region that has the world's two most populous countries — India and China.

But why must this region run dry? It is fed by major rivers such as the Yangtze, Indus, Ganges and the Brahmaputra. But the problem is all of them originate in the Tibetan Plateau and will be badly affected by melting glaciers. The new report says it may all end very badly because a water deficit will have a cumulative, destructive effect on agricultural production, power generation, food availability and livelihood, forcing all countries to try and secure water resources. They may even look beyond their borders, leading to geo-political tension.

Add to this the current problem of massive water shortages in both countries. This could force both India and China to "securitize" water sources and lead to tension. India is already worried about China's reported plans to construct a massive 40,000 MW dam at the point where the Brahmaputra takes a U-bend to enter India. Delhi is also concerned about Beijing planning to divert Brahmaputra waters towards China's arid north.

The SFG report suggests creating a new regional forum, say a Himalayan rivers commission, to better manage the looming water problem. But like much else, that's difficult in a region dominated by the trust deficit between countries. The key lies in doing something before the rivers run dry and the taps as well.

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Zenom
qwdsqwd

France

#5 Nov 24, 2010
qwdqd
Suraj

Kozhikode, India

#6 Nov 24, 2010
zenom wrote:
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wars over water as it is becoming scarce.
==========
Today's nightmare is that water supplies are fast evaporating on account of population pressures, urbanization and now, climate change. No country is likely to be left untouched, but the great thirst will be felt the most in the region that has the world's two most populous countries — India and China.
But why must this region run dry? It is fed by major rivers such as the Yangtze, Indus, Ganges and the Brahmaputra. But the problem is all of them originate in the Tibetan Plateau and will be badly affected by melting glaciers. The new report says it may all end very badly because a water deficit will have a cumulative, destructive effect on agricultural production, power generation, food availability and livelihood, forcing all countries to try and secure water resources. They may even look beyond their borders, leading to geo-political tension.
Add to this the current problem of massive water shortages in both countries. This could force both India and China to "securitize" water sources and lead to tension. India is already worried about China's reported plans to construct a massive 40,000 MW dam at the point where the Brahmaputra takes a U-bend to enter India. Delhi is also concerned about Beijing planning to divert Brahmaputra waters towards China's arid north.
The SFG report suggests creating a new regional forum, say a Himalayan rivers commission, to better manage the looming water problem. But like much else, that's difficult in a region dominated by the trust deficit between countries. The key lies in doing something before the rivers run dry and the taps as well.
==========
Zenom
YES, this could well become a potential source of trouble between India and China. Indian leadership is very alarmed at China's moves. Hope cool and wise heads prevail.
Suraj

Kozhikode, India

#7 Nov 24, 2010
China should not divert Brahmaputra.It will have serious implications and repercussions.
kokong

Petaling Jaya, Malaysia

#8 Nov 25, 2010
Tibet, let's face fact, the only access (other than flying) is via China, At the moment, disregard flying, One almost impossible to go to Tibet from India, Myanmar of Nepal.
So how come so many nuts still think Tibet become independent of China??
China of course have to look after its citizen water need!
John

Chicago, IL

#9 Nov 25, 2010
Climate change is a serious issue and the extreme demand for water resources bought about by it among different nations could ignite WW3.
New China

Wuhan, China

#10 Nov 25, 2010
you have to back to class to learn what is World war,
then talk about wwIII.
old china

Chengdu, China

#11 Nov 25, 2010
zenom wrote:
The former senior vice-president of the World Bank was quoted several years ago as saying:‘The next World War will be over water.’
The reason for China's taking over Tibet is simple. The Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has always referred to Tibet as China's Water Tower and considers its key to sustaining China's northwest in water, revitalising its deserts and the Yellow River itself, as well as being crucial to its Himalayan Strategy.
To guarantee China's water needs, Beijing's excessive and often disastrous policies seriously endanger the survival of hundreds of millions in countries downstream on trans-national rivers that rise in Tibet. One such plan is the unsustainable diversion of a river's flow into north western China. One of the many river is the Yarlung Tsangbo, that when crossing the Indian border, becomes the Brahmaputra.
==========
Zenom
==========
FREEDOM OF THOUGHT is The DNA of PROGRESS
==========
CCP Rules by BRUTE Force and LIES (By Hooks or By Crooks)
==========
Power Corrupts - Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely
==========
So China utilising their resources in their territory for their own benefit is a war?

I can understand the concern of those downstream of China but perhaps they should be following China's example and looking for alternative ways to maintain water supplies for their people rather than building up their military with the intention of territorial conquest to secure dwindling supplies.
John

Chicago, IL

#13 Nov 25, 2010
old china wrote:
<quoted text>
So China utilising their resources in their territory for their own benefit is a war?
I can understand the concern of those downstream of China but perhaps they should be following China's example and looking for alternative ways to maintain water supplies for their people rather than building up their military with the intention of territorial conquest to secure dwindling supplies.
Enlighten us, what the alternate ways are--diverting rivers and denying other nations' natural share over it?

I repeat that water could become 'tomorrow's oil' and wars could be fought over it.
John

Chicago, IL

#14 Nov 25, 2010
John wrote:
<quoted text>
Enlighten us, what the alternate ways are--diverting rivers and denying other nations' natural share over it?
Such unilateral moves will only antagonize China's neighbors more and more and would not fit in with what the PRC likes to project as 'peaceful rise'.

Since: May 08

Hamilton, Canada

#15 Nov 25, 2010
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China’s Deepening Water Crisis
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Surging demand for water resources and extensive pollution have led to a well-documented water crisis in China. Falling water tables, ground and river water pollution, water-borne disease, agricultural capacity constraints and an inability to introduce real pricing around water are focusing attention on this critical issue.

The facts speak for themselves:
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* China has 22% of the world’s population but only 7% of its freshwater

* About 700 million Chinese drink water contaminated with waste. Consequently, water pollution sickens 190 million and causes an estimated 60,000 premature deaths annually

* Two-thirds of Chinese cities face water shortages, which are particularly severe in Northern China, home to 45% of the population but 20% of water resources

* Because of water mismanagement, illicit household and corporate discharges, inadequate water and wastewater treatment systems, water is often not useable

* Estimates are that 90% of the aquifers of Chinese cities are polluted

* More than 75% of river water in urban areas is unsuitable for drinking or fishing

* 30% of river water throughout the country is unfit for agricultural or industrial use

* China’s water productivity is low compared to its G20 peers, requiring about four times as much water withdrawn per US dollar produced as the average member

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Zenom

Since: May 08

Hamilton, Canada

#16 Nov 25, 2010
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Looming Water Crisis in China Threatens Growth
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Feb. 25 (Bloomberg)-- China’s growth may be imperiled unless the country addresses a deepening water crisis, according to a report released by the Asia Water Project in Hong Kong today.

Scarcity and pollution of the resource will be particularly acute for water-intensive industries such as steel, textiles, paper and forest products,“Water in China: Issues for Responsible Investors,” forecasts.

“There is much risk to investors from their exposure to increasing prices and increasing pollution and scarcity of water in China,” Lucy Carmody, the editor of the report, said in an interview.

Because the price of water is kept low by the government, many companies do not yet realize the urgency of the problems that “could seriously impact earnings in high water-intensity areas like mining, beverages, hotels and construction,” Carmody said.“As an investor in those sectors, I would start to raise the alarm.”

China’s rapid industrialization and desertification have created huge increases in demand for water and lax environmental enforcement has resulted in widespread problems of water pollution, according to the report.

==========
Zenom
Rong

Ipoh, Malaysia

#17 Nov 25, 2010
Zenom,

I usually don't read your post, but this one I happen to glance through.
If you are talking about the current massive project of diverting water from the the south to the north you are all wrong. The project know as "nan shui bei tiao" in Chinese involves 3 sections of the Yangzi river or the Long River (chang jiang) in Chinese. The idea is to channel water from the Long River to the arid northern China.

The eastern and middle segment are 3/4 complete now. By 2014 they will be fully operational. It will benefit 100s of millions of people living the the arid north.
CCP do a lot of good, but you people only non stop cursing them. BTW, the Eastern and Middle section projects are 1000 of Km from Tibet.

The western section water diversion project is near Tibet.
It has not been finalized yet.
Most likely they will take water from Jinsha Jiang and Dadu River. These are 1000 of Km from Brahmaputra River. I don't know why the Indians are already excited. Both Jinsha Jiang and Dadu River are tributaries of China's Long River. They don't involved any foreign countries.
Rong

Ipoh, Malaysia

#18 Nov 25, 2010
zenom wrote:
==========
Looming Water Crisis in China Threatens Growth
==========
Feb. 25 (Bloomberg)-- China’s growth may be imperiled unless the country addresses a deepening water crisis, according to a report released by the Asia Water Project in Hong Kong today.
Scarcity and pollution of the resource will be particularly acute for water-intensive industries such as steel, textiles, paper and forest products,“Water in China: Issues for Responsible Investors,” forecasts.
“There is much risk to investors from their exposure to increasing prices and increasing pollution and scarcity of water in China,” Lucy Carmody, the editor of the report, said in an interview.
Because the price of water is kept low by the government, many companies do not yet realize the urgency of the problems that “could seriously impact earnings in high water-intensity areas like mining, beverages, hotels and construction,” Carmody said.“As an investor in those sectors, I would start to raise the alarm.”
China’s rapid industrialization and desertification have created huge increases in demand for water and lax environmental enforcement has resulted in widespread problems of water pollution, according to the report.
==========
Zenom
The "nan shui bei diao" water diversion project, stated around 2002, is exactly designed to address this problem.

When completed by 2014 it will greatly improve the quality and quantity of water supply to households and industry users in the northern provinces and cities eg Hebei, Shangdong, Beijing and Tianjin. The eastern section project also improve water transportation along the ancient grand canal, every important for shipment of coal from north to south.

That is one of the reasons why I believe China will have sustained growth for the next decade and possibly beyond. China will have an economy 2X the size of USA (Purchasing Power Parity) by 2022 if the current trend continues.
old china

Chengdu, China

#19 Nov 25, 2010
John wrote:
<quoted text>
Enlighten us, what the alternate ways are--diverting rivers and denying other nations' natural share over it?
I repeat that water could become 'tomorrow's oil' and wars could be fought over it.
Try studying hydrology and provide yourself with the information to need to capture and store water resources. Generally you should aim to capture water during peak flows so that you can have sufficient supplies during dry periods. Water diversion is another possible solution. Why am I not suprised that you could not work this out for yourself!

If you think that capturing Chinese territory is a practical solution to securing water supplies then I wish you luck.
Rong

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

#20 Nov 25, 2010
Suraj wrote:
China should not divert Brahmaputra.It will have serious implications and repercussions.
India have been bullying Bangladesh with their own water diversion.

India constructed a barrage at Farakka, near the border with Bangladesh as a result Bangladesh has experienced a 50% decrease of dry season mean flow amounts since the commissioning of the barrage in 1975. Such drastic reductions have caused a series of problems including drop in agro and fish productivity, saltwater intrusion and ecological imbalance in estuarine areas, and reduced navigation.

China should do the same to India until India stop bullying Bangladesh and Nepal. This is my opinion, not a national policy yet.
New China

Wuhan, China

#21 Nov 25, 2010
John wrote:
<quoted text>
Enlighten us, what the alternate ways are--diverting rivers and denying other nations' natural share over it?
I repeat that water could become 'tomorrow's oil' and wars could be fought over it.
indeed, old China enlightened you all. He is right.

reasonable utilization of nature resources is a tough task in front of human being.

solar, wind energy are all such resources.
according to your logic, these energies, of cause, are shared by all human, thus any countries in the world couldn't harness them?

likewise, the sun and the moon and the stars and so on are all able to be fought over them?

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