Tokyo Running Out of Options against Rising China

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RayH

Shenzhen, China

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Sep 18, 2012
 

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Japan takes cautious tone in dispute with increasingly assertive China
Japan's government has been noticeably restrained in its statements about a bitter dispute with China over islets in the East China Sea. Anti-Japanese protests in China have spread to dozens of cities.
By Gavin Blair | Christian Science Monitor

In China, anti-Japanese demonstrations have now spread to as many as 100 cities as tensions mount over Japan’s purchase of islands it calls the Senkaku and China calls the Diaoyu. The islets, which were owned by a Japanese family, lie between the two countries.
China reacted angrily to the brief landing Tuesday of two Japanese protesters on the main island of the group, even as a large flotilla of Chinese fishing vessels and a separate group of surveillance ships were heading for the disputed territories.
“The unlawful landing of the Japanese right-wingers on the Chinese territory of the Diaoyu islands was a gravely provocative action violating Chinese territorial sovereignty,” said foreign ministry spokesperson Hong Lei in an issued statement.
The Japanese government has been noticeably cautious in its own recent pronouncements on the dispute, no doubt wary of inflaming passions further in China, where Sept. 18 is remembered as the day of the Liutiaohu (Manchurian) Incident that was used as an excuse by Japan to invade and occupy Manchuria.
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Japan’s colonization of a large swath of northeast China is still regarded as one of the most humiliating incidents in recent Chinese history by many of its people.
“The government is trying to stop any further effects on Japanese people in China,” Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Osamu Fujimura, said at a press conference in Tokyo on Tuesday, following reports of Japanese businesses in China being attacked and many companies suspending their operations there out of fear for employee safety.
At another press conference later in the day, when Chinese patrol boats had entered the territorial waters around the islands, Mr. Fujimura simply confirmed the ships had been sighted and referred reporters to the Japan Coast Guard for further details.
Though it doesn’t want to be seen as buckling under pressure from Beijing, the Democratic Party of Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda has little strength with which to face an angry China, unpopular as it is at home and facing a general election it is likely to lose.
“All the Japanese government can really do is to wait patiently for the situation to cool down,” says Tetsuro Kato, professor emeritus of politics at Tokyo’s Hitotsubashi University.“It tried to rely on the US, but the US is insisting on neutrality over the territorial dispute. So it has few means with which to answer China’s aggression.”
The Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) opposition is currently in the middle of a five-way leadership contest to decide who will challenge the government at the next election, and likely be the next prime minister.
“The five LDP candidates are all calling for a tougher approach toward China, and such nationalistic tendencies are likely to come to the fore at the election,” says Professor Kato.
Business people in both countries, however, along with the friends and relatives of the tens of thousands of Japanese living and working in China, say they are hoping for a peaceful and rapid end to the tensions.
“We had a joint venture with a Chinese company due to start soon, but it’s been put on hold for now,” says a manager at media-related firm in Tokyo who asked not to be identified because of the sensitivity of the current situation.“Our Chinese partners want to get on with the business, too, but they can’t with the atmosphere at the moment.”
But with ships from both China and Japan now patrolling the area, even an accidental collision between a Japanese and Chinese vessel has the potential to spark a more serious incident, though the more immediate damage is likely to be economic.
Jeremy

Edmonton, Canada

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Sep 18, 2012
 

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Japan used to think China is a large sick man - and paper dragon and as a result it has done repeatedly aweful things to humiliate China.

For some unknown reasons, Japanese hate China and Chinese even though it was not the Chinese who had invaded and massacred Japanese, but the other way round. Japanese should apologize but they don't. Instead, they despise and look down upon Chinese people (and consider them inferior and deserve the inhumane treatment by invaders).

If Austria and Germany do that to their victims of Nazism and Facists, how would Jews and Europeans feel? It shows how pyschologically convoluted the Japanese are.

Since 9/11, China and also Taiwan strike back. China demonstrates to Japan that it is strong and just acts too politely in the past.

Taiwan's Ma Ying Jeou is not bad in this event.

Expecting 3000 China fishing ships and 100 to 200 Taiwan fishing ships to arrive shortly.
RayH

Shenzhen, China

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#4
Sep 18, 2012
 
Jeremy wrote:
Japan used to think China is a large sick man - and paper dragon and as a result it has done repeatedly aweful things to humiliate China.
For some unknown reasons, Japanese hate China and Chinese even though it was not the Chinese who had invaded and massacred Japanese, but the other way round. Japanese should apologize but they don't. Instead, they despise and look down upon Chinese people (and consider them inferior and deserve the inhumane treatment by invaders).
If Austria and Germany do that to their victims of Nazism and Facists, how would Jews and Europeans feel? It shows how pyschologically convoluted the Japanese are.
Since 9/11, China and also Taiwan strike back. China demonstrates to Japan that it is strong and just acts too politely in the past.
Taiwan's Ma Ying Jeou is not bad in this event.
Expecting 3000 China fishing ships and 100 to 200 Taiwan fishing ships to arrive shortly.
And one fishing boat from Hong Kong.
Jeremy

Edmonton, Canada

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#5
Sep 18, 2012
 
RayH wrote:
<quoted text>
And one fishing boat from Hong Kong.
No. The activist does not get the approval from the gov't and so they will be stuck in the harbour.

The problem the activists encountered is not just the harrassment and suppression by the Japanese coast guard. They got suppressed by their own gov'ts - mainland, HK, and Taiwan.

Sigh!

So many officials are so stupid, and that is why the Japanese were so successful and arrogant until 9/11.
Jeremy

Edmonton, Canada

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#6
Sep 18, 2012
 

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But I agree that Japan does not have too many options unless China and Taiwan chooses to remain silent. They did it in the past.

Taiwan is a lot closer to the islands than Japan.

China is a lot stronger in terms of resources and economic power.

If China launches economic sanction on Japan, Japan will suffer severely.

I do not understand why China hasn't launched any economic measure to punish Japan as of now. China should do it right away. China is just too kind. The same mistake was not requiring Japan to compensate China for war damages. Taiwan/ROC and PRC under Chiang Kai Shek and Mao Ze Dong were too forgiving. But Japan did not appreciate it. Instead it badmouthes China all the time, and tries hard to continue to harm China and also Taiwan.

How sick Japan is?
I can read

Edinburgh, UK

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#7
Sep 18, 2012
 

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All they need to do is petition the UN to recognise Taiwan as a member nation.

That's the only reason China are lying about having a claim on the islands.

As soon as Taiwan is recognised, China have to shut the hell up.
WOUNDED KNEE

Brooklyn, NY

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#8
Sep 18, 2012
 
I can read wrote:
All they need to do is petition the UN to recognise Taiwan as a member nation.
That's the only reason China are lying about having a claim on the islands.
As soon as Taiwan is recognised, China have to shut the hell up.
Around the time when the Indians take back America, Taiwan should also be recognized.
Jeremy

Edmonton, Canada

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Sep 18, 2012
 

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I can read wrote:
All they need to do is petition the UN to recognise Taiwan as a member nation.
That's the only reason China are lying about having a claim on the islands.
As soon as Taiwan is recognised, China have to shut the hell up.
Would it happen?

Republic of China was expelled from UN before the PRC gov't was admitted.

So lying and again lying? But who is lying? It is ignorant people like yourself.

Many anti-Chinese activists are attacking China and distorting history and facts. They choose to side with Japan and suddenly forget about the tragedies created by Japanese facists during the second world war.

Austria, Germany and Italy had already apologized. The only country of the Axis Powers which refuses to admit its war crimes and apologize to the victims is Japan. Japan instead distorts the facts, rewrites history and textbooks and continues to get into conflicts with its victims such as South Korea and China. According to Cairo Declaration and Potsdam Declaration, Dokdo and Diaoyu Islands do not belong to Japan, but Korea and China respectively. Japan as a defeated power should give up all occupied territories. It territory is limited to the main islands. Japan is trying to overturn the agreements that ended the second world war.

But anti-Chinese morons think Japan is doing the right thing.

If you look at books published in the late 1940's, 50's, and 60's in USA and the west, obviously USA, and west Europe were very clear that Japan has committed war crimes against humanity (like Germany and Austria).

But because of the need to make use of Japan in the Far East to curtail USSR/Russia and China, gradually the media and some morons in the west forget that the allied powers had fought a very meaningful war against the cruel Japanese. Japan is not a victim and not a hero in any way.

But the media and politicians in the west have begun to distort the stand of their predecessors, and deviate from the moral principles of mankind. It is an insult to all war veterans of the allied powers.

Do you think Russia and China will suffer if you do that? It is yourselves. You are undermining your own moral position in favour of Japan.
RayH

Shenzhen, China

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#10
Sep 18, 2012
 

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Jeremy wrote:
But I agree that Japan does not have too many options unless China and Taiwan chooses to remain silent. They did it in the past.
Taiwan is a lot closer to the islands than Japan.
China is a lot stronger in terms of resources and economic power.
If China launches economic sanction on Japan, Japan will suffer severely.
I do not understand why China hasn't launched any economic measure to punish Japan as of now. China should do it right away. China is just too kind. The same mistake was not requiring Japan to compensate China for war damages. Taiwan/ROC and PRC under Chiang Kai Shek and Mao Ze Dong were too forgiving. But Japan did not appreciate it. Instead it badmouthes China all the time, and tries hard to continue to harm China and also Taiwan.
How sick Japan is?
The economic sanctions against Japan is already under way. In August, Jap electronic sales in mainland China dropped by 40 % and Jap auto sales down by 15 %. Remember, this Diaoyu conflict started on Aug. 15, with the Hong Kong fishing boat's landing on Diaoyu Islands. Also, Chinese tourists have stopped going to Japan, especially over the Oct. 1-7 national day holidays.

A 3 months embargo in China will put the Jap economy in the negative this year.

The grand finale to this year's Diaoyu Island conflict is the collapse of this present Jap government in 2 months.
Jeremy

Edmonton, Canada

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Sep 18, 2012
 

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"I can read" does not understand the issue.

The islands are Chinese territories since the days of the Chinese dynasties. It is part of I-Lan County of the province of Taiwan. Note Taiwan is the province which the Diaoyu Islands administratively associated with at the local government level.

But Republic of China government inherited the land including the islands from the last dynasty.

Similarly, as ROC lost the civil war and the UN seat, PRC took over as the only legitimate gov't representing the Chinese people. PRC inherits all the land of ROC including Taiwan and nearby islands. On the other hand, by ROC's constitution even today, not only Taiwan, but also 30+ provinces in the mainland are legitimate sovereign territories owned by ROC.

So PRC and ROC overlaps in territory. The same piece of land with 2 Chinese gov'ts claiming it.

To PRC, Taiwan is a province of its territory and the Diaoyu Islands are part of such a province.

There is nothing called Taiwan at the country level. No country in the world recognizes such a country called Taiwan, let alone admitting it to the UN.

Just to educate the moron.

Now you know why both PRC and ROC/Taiwan have the same claims over the Diaoyu Islands and the South China Sea. But the west love to ignore ROC's claim even though Taipei protests, and trying to portray the PRC as the only party and culprit that competes with the neighbouring countries (as a tactic to smear the PRC).
I can read

Edinburgh, UK

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#12
Sep 18, 2012
 
Jeremy wrote:
"I can read" does not understand the issue.
The islands are Chinese territories since the days of the Chinese dynasties. It is part of I-Lan County of the province of Taiwan. Note Taiwan is the province which the Diaoyu Islands administratively associated with at the local government level.
But Republic of China government inherited the land including the islands from the last dynasty.
Similarly, as ROC lost the civil war and the UN seat, PRC took over as the only legitimate gov't representing the Chinese people. PRC inherits all the land of ROC including Taiwan and nearby islands. On the other hand, by ROC's constitution even today, not only Taiwan, but also 30+ provinces in the mainland are legitimate sovereign territories owned by ROC.
So PRC and ROC overlaps in territory. The same piece of land with 2 Chinese gov'ts claiming it.
To PRC, Taiwan is a province of its territory and the Diaoyu Islands are part of such a province.
There is nothing called Taiwan at the country level. No country in the world recognizes such a country called Taiwan, let alone admitting it to the UN.
Just to educate the moron.
Now you know why both PRC and ROC/Taiwan have the same claims over the Diaoyu Islands and the South China Sea. But the west love to ignore ROC's claim even though Taipei protests, and trying to portray the PRC as the only party and culprit that competes with the neighbouring countries (as a tactic to smear the PRC).
Looks like there's a new Chinese liar on topix.

ROC has the best claim on the islands. Japan has the next best claim. PRC has nothing.

Try looking at a map.

If you did look at a map you'd also see that the chunxiao gas field would be in the exclusive economic zone of Japan, no matter who controlled the disputed islands.

So, other than being a big distraction for the people of the PRC, what possible reason does China have for suddenly making claims on these islands?
Jeremy

Edmonton, Canada

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#13
Sep 18, 2012
 
Japan not only has conflicts over land claims with PRC and Taiwan/RoC, but also with Korea and Russia.

By the agreements that ended WWII (Cairo and Potsdam Declarations), Japan has no right to these pieces of land.
Jeremy

Edmonton, Canada

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Sep 18, 2012
 

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I can read wrote:
<quoted text>
Looks like there's a new Chinese liar on topix.
ROC has the best claim on the islands. Japan has the next best claim. PRC has nothing.
Try looking at a map.
If you did look at a map you'd also see that the chunxiao gas field would be in the exclusive economic zone of Japan, no matter who controlled the disputed islands.
So, other than being a big distraction for the people of the PRC, what possible reason does China have for suddenly making claims on these islands?
It only shows that you either are lying or ignorant in the subject. I monitor your posts for a long time but refuse to answer any until now. I always think it is a waste of time to discuss with you anything.

It is not what you and I say that matters. It is the facts and the constitutions of the PRC and ROC and history that matters. If you are not convinced, go to pull up United Nations records and reports. It clearly supports what I just said about the evolution of ownership of Chinese territory from the dynasties to ROC to PRC.

If you are a layman to this subject, you better learn before debating with me. Normal people will laugh at you if you continue with such stupid talks.

No more response to this moron is necessary! Case closed!
I can read

Edinburgh, UK

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Sep 18, 2012
 

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Jeremy wrote:
<quoted text>It only shows that you either are lying or ignorant in the subject. I monitor your posts for a long time but refuse to answer any until now. I always think it is a waste of time to discuss with you anything.
It is not what you and I say that matters. It is the facts and the constitutions of the PRC and ROC and history that matters. If you are not convinced, go to pull up United Nations records and reports. It clearly supports what I just said about the evolution of ownership of Chinese territory from the dynasties to ROC to PRC.
If you are a layman to this subject, you better learn before debating with me. Normal people will laugh at you if you continue with such stupid talks.
No more response to this moron is necessary! Case closed!
I'll try to make it as simple as possible for you.

If even China claim that the islands are part of Taiwan, that means they aren't part of China.

Was that still too complicated?
Hated man of Asia

Palakkad, India

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#16
Sep 18, 2012
 

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Jeremy wrote:
Japan used to think China is a large sick man - and paper dragon and as a result it has done repeatedly aweful things to humiliate China.
For some unknown reasons, Japanese hate China and Chinese even though it was not the Chinese who had invaded and massacred Japanese, but the other way round. Japanese should apologize but they don't. Instead, they despise and look down upon Chinese people (and consider them inferior and deserve the inhumane treatment by invaders).
If Austria and Germany do that to their victims of Nazism and Facists, how would Jews and Europeans feel? It shows how pyschologically convoluted the Japanese are.
Since 9/11, China and also Taiwan strike back. China demonstrates to Japan that it is strong and just acts too politely in the past.
Taiwan's Ma Ying Jeou is not bad in this event.
Expecting 3000 China fishing ships and 100 to 200 Taiwan fishing ships to arrive shortly.
You are wrong there. In fact, people all over the world hate china. So the Japanese hating China is nothing unique or special to comment about.

Look inside Chinamen and cure yourselves. Why are you so quarrelsome, always eyeing at the land and resources of others ?
lct

Beijing, China

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#17
Sep 18, 2012
 

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Jeremy wrote:
<quoted text>No. The activist does not get the approval from the gov't and so they will be stuck in the harbour.
The problem the activists encountered is not just the harrassment and suppression by the Japanese coast guard. They got suppressed by their own gov'ts - mainland, HK, and Taiwan.
Sigh!
So many officials are so stupid, and that is why the Japanese were so successful and arrogant until 9/11.
those 'activists' from HK were paid prositutes by NED.

they burned our National flag during previous protest in HK.

a truely street gangs. human garbages deseves take a reeducation camp in USA later.
TEE HEE

Brooklyn, NY

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#18
Sep 18, 2012
 

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Hated man of Asia wrote:
<quoted text>
You are wrong there. In fact, people all over the world hate china. So the Japanese hating China is nothing unique or special to comment about.
Look inside Chinamen and cure yourselves. Why are you so quarrelsome, always eyeing at the land and resources of others ?
For some reason I'm not seeing Chinese embassies under attack in 25 different countries all across the globe.
Hated man of Asia

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#19
Sep 18, 2012
 

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So now you want your embassies attacked ???

Concealed hate is even more pernicious.
IN DENIAL

Brooklyn, NY

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Sep 18, 2012
 

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Yes, let's overlook the 800 ton elephant crushing your lap.

tee hee
RayH

Shenzhen, China

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#21
Sep 18, 2012
 

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I can read wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll try to make it as simple as possible for you.
If even China claim that the islands are part of Taiwan, that means they aren't part of China.
Was that still too complicated?
Taiwan's official title is the Republic of China. Take a look at Bill's passport.

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