Hong Kong Election 2017

Hong Kong Election 2017

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“Many-to-Many discussion”

Since: Dec 13

Hong Kong

#3 Dec 8, 2013
From Lion C,
I do have problem with item #3.
(Pro-democratic camp may have one or more potential candidates acceptable to Beijing.)
Why would Beijing take on such risk?
**********
My understanding on China is that the Leadership is still not entirely happy with their existing model. They can see that they can get things done but at a price.(The exact price may be more than Officially Announced.) In allowing Shanghai to become a free trading zone, they want to experiment with other approaches.
Macau achieved spectacular economic succeed with GDP increasing more than 10% yearly. Singapore is ahead of Hong Kong in GDP per capita standing. In theory, Hong Kong should be able to do better with the massive support from China. They can also see that the USA model of two party democracy has its drawbacks.(Some Americans still think that their system is the best.)
The Chinese Leadership is willing to see the emergence of a friendly Hong Kong person to take Hong Kong on a One Country Two Systems path. Even the concept of Super Democracy (every citizen can effectively test vote bypassing the disruptive Public Opinion Gathering process) will be given a chance. So far, the Pro-Beijing Camp has not produced a competent Leader. In my opinion, Beijing is willing to see the emergence of a Hong Kong Leader who is patriotic both towards Hong Kong and China. If he can display his ideas and capabilities in public first, that will be a plus.
There are still three years before the 2017 Chief Executive Election. Can one of the Waken Up Lions with the improved Silicon Valley Mentality do it? Or will a much younger Hong Kong person who can learn fast emerge?
If I understand correctly, the Chief Executive is not supposed to belong to any political party. Someone more familiar with the Basic Law should comment on that.
Waken Up Lions
TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

New York, NY

#4 Dec 9, 2013
"Democracy" is code for CIA.

“Many-to-Many discussion”

Since: Dec 13

Hong Kong

#5 Dec 9, 2013
Just saw on the News that the Government presentation at the Legislative COuncil did not go well. The Officials kept repeating their point. Anger rose and no progress was made.

Is it possible to divert the attention? Political skill required...

Since: Dec 13

Central District, Hong Kong

#6 Dec 9, 2013
No political skill will save the day. The process is a dead end. Just a waste of time. Take back the promise of democacy for Hong Kong people for the time being. The concept of self governance through universal suffrage is no panacea for Hong Kong or for China. Look at Thailand uprising, and one will see the future of the institution of popular elective democracy.

“Many-to-Many discussion”

Since: Dec 13

Hong Kong

#7 Dec 9, 2013
That is why we should move ahead to Super Democracy. Initially there will only be “test votes” to supplement Public Opinion Polls. The next stage is Super Disclosure. The potential candidates will disclose their ideas and ideals on past and present issues. Voters and Beijing will be able to judge the candidates better. An important side-effect is that the potential candidates will compete with each other and draw on the best ideas.

“Many-to-Many discussion”

Since: Dec 13

Hong Kong

#8 Dec 9, 2013
The riot in Singapore
Singapore gave most of us the impression that it was as a progressive, lawful city. The recent riot told us another story. When there is big disparity in living standards existing side-by-side, there will be feeling of unfairness and resentment.
One of the questions being raised in Hong Kong is that with the low population growth, should Hong Kong import external labor to maintain its growth?
The Singapore riot forced the Hong Kong Public to rethink. How should a potential candidate for Chief Executive deal with this issue?
Waken Up Lions

“Many-to-Many discussion”

Since: Dec 13

Hong Kong

#9 Dec 10, 2013
From Lion A:

Hong Kong has over 300,000 foreign domestic workers. Their minimum hourly pay is less than the Hong Kong legal minimum (HK$32). Such a salary is way higher than what they can get in their own country. Without the domestic workers, many Hong Kong mothers will not be able to work.

These domestic workers are not causing any social burden – except crowding the streets and parks on weekends. They are mostly young, healthy, educated and gentle. I do not believe that they will cause riots.

I am not so sure about the male laborers. Their numbers are relatively small in Hong Kong. I believe many industries should improve the efficiency via machines or other innovations. For example, dish washing can be done by machines or subcontracted out. Number of waiters and waitresses can be greatly reduced with the fast food chain techniques. Retail trade efficiency can be greatly increased with proper scaling.

If I were the Chief Executive, I would fund Model Centers (may be with help from Universities and Industry) to improve the efficiency of all trades.

“Many-to-Many discussion”

Since: Dec 13

Hong Kong

#11 Dec 10, 2013
Analyzing the situation as a chess board:

(1) The Beijing Move: Stick to the written Basic Law. Selection of Chief Executive Candidates is via the controlled Election Committee.
(2) The Pro-Democratic Camp Move: Try to get rid of the selection, hoping to win via Universal Suffrage.
(3) The Hong Kong Government: Play it cool. Hope the General Public will side with it.
(4) Hidden move by HK Government: Let the Supporting Parties gain 4 or more seats at the Legislative Council Election in 2016. If successful, two third majority is secured. No need to worry about what the pro-democratic camp will do.
(5) Hidden move by Pro-Democratic Camp: make existing HK Government look bad and win more seats at the Legislative Council Election in 2016. At least maintain the present dead-lock situation to have some bargaining power.

The move by the Waken UP Lions: Promote Super Democracy and Super Disclosure. Use the Silicon Valley Mentality to impress Beijing, the Hong Kong Citizens and the World. Sow the seeds…

Waken Up Lions
It is so Amazing

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

#12 Dec 10, 2013
Waken Up Lions wrote:
The riot in Singapore
Singapore gave most of us the impression that it was as a progressive, lawful city. The recent riot told us another story. When there is big disparity in living standards existing side-by-side, there will be feeling of unfairness and resentment.
One of the questions being raised in Hong Kong is that with the low population growth, should Hong Kong import external labor to maintain its growth?
The Singapore riot forced the Hong Kong Public to rethink. How should a potential candidate for Chief Executive deal with this issue?
Waken Up Lions
The riot in LITTLE INDIA in Singapore is started by drunk foreign Indian workers from Southern India after one of them were killed in a bus accident.

They overturned and burn at least 4 Police cars and the Police did not responded as they were not the RIOT POLICE. Psychiatrists says the riot by 400 odd foreigners were probably a normal reaction and response due to Police brutality in their own country during a strike or protest.

If you intend to use this incident to highlight you case of the practice of DEMOCRACY in Hong Kong, I suggest you tried elsewhere like the OWS protests in USA instead.

“Many-to-Many discussion”

Since: Dec 13

Hong Kong

#13 Dec 10, 2013
Discontent from foreign workers working side-by-side with citizens

In Singapore (and Hong Kong), Citizens enjoy much more privileges than foreign workers. Housing is a ready example. Advancement is another example. Medical and Hospital benefits are other examples.

Whenever you have people working side-by-side and the treatments are different, there will be resentment. Foreign workers would feel that they were treated as cheap labor – especially if they worked for more than a couple of years. Such are seeds for social discontent and potential conflict.

Should Hong Kong slow down some of its development (no or few foreign workers) to avoid such social discontent? Should Hong Kong ensure that the foreign workers have a comparable standard of living and benefits? Should Hong Kong go the extra step of providing language training for them and their families to enable them to adopt into the Hong Kong society?

The candidates for the Legislative Council and/or the Chief Executive will be in a position to formulate/approve such policies. Their views are important. Universal suffrage is meaningless if Hong Kong cannot elect the competent person(s).

Waken Up Lions
It is so Amazing

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

#14 Dec 10, 2013
Waken Up Lions wrote:
Discontent from foreign workers working side-by-side with citizens
In Singapore (and Hong Kong), Citizens enjoy much more privileges than foreign workers. Housing is a ready example. Advancement is another example. Medical and Hospital benefits are other examples.
Whenever you have people working side-by-side and the treatments are different, there will be resentment. Foreign workers would feel that they were treated as cheap labor – especially if they worked for more than a couple of years. Such are seeds for social discontent and potential conflict.
Should Hong Kong slow down some of its development (no or few foreign workers) to avoid such social discontent? Should Hong Kong ensure that the foreign workers have a comparable standard of living and benefits? Should Hong Kong go the extra step of providing language training for them and their families to enable them to adopt into the Hong Kong society?
The candidates for the Legislative Council and/or the Chief Executive will be in a position to formulate/approve such policies. Their views are important. Universal suffrage is meaningless if Hong Kong cannot elect the competent person(s).
Waken Up Lions
So are you saying in dealing with the inequality in the treatment of foreign worker as compared to the citizen of the state (which in my opinion is quite normal for any workers e.g. US treatment of Mexicans workers), Hong Kong should have extended CITIZENSHIP to the Filipino maids when the last time they gathered and protested.

What is a COMPETENT Chief Executive or candidates for the legislative council? As I say, I am really into Hong Kong internal politics which in my opinion is too petty as an outsider.

As I says before, the riot at little India in Singapore is spontaneous as since the police remain passive and did not fired at the rioters, 5 Police cars were burned and the bus was vandalized and destroyed.
Now Singaporean are demanding that the Police been more aggressive in dealing with foreign workers as they are threatening their peace and security!

“Many-to-Many discussion”

Since: Dec 13

Hong Kong

#15 Dec 10, 2013
Conversation with a Former Government Official

I just finished a conversation with a Retired Government Official.

Official:“Your suggestion of using many-to-many discussion forums will meet with much opposition within the Hong Kong Government.”

Lion:“Why? It is the latest technology and the best ideas will get raised and discussed.”

Official:“You mentioned the correct words – the best ideas. If the Government sets up a platform and allows the opposition parties shine with the best ideas, what will the average Citizen think?”

Lion:“I shall cheer the ideas and the self-confidence of the Hong Kong Government.”

Official:“You have no ambition to becoming Government. Thus you can be objective and neutral. But those with ambitions may use the platform to attack the Government. They will say that the high-salary Officials are not worth the price. Managing such forums will require great skill and knowhow. It is better to be safe and do nothing. This is the major concern.”

Lion:“But the Government is already running Public Consultations. The Senior Official appear in Public Meetings and answer questions from individuals.”

Official:“Those meetings are more like Public Relationship Exercises. No useful, concrete suggestions could be raised by the General Public in the one or two minute allocated time.”
It is so Amazing

Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

#16 Dec 10, 2013
Another example of sensational news reporting by NEWS MEDIA to create RATING!

What really happen at Little India in Singapore?

SINGAPORE: Singapore's High Commissioner to India has written to Sun TV Tamil India Network regarding its erroneous reporting of Sunday's riot in Little India, SIngapore.

High Commissioner Lim Thuan Kuan said Sun TV had erroneously reported that the Indian national, who died in the traffic accident that triggered the riot, was pushed out of the bus by the driver.

The erroneous report had also claimed that Singaporeans and Chinese attacked the Indian nationals.

Mr Lim stressed these incidents were fabricated and did not take place as police investigation revealed.

He said that based on eyewitness and video evidence, the Indian national tried to board the bus which was already full.

The victim, an Indian foreign worker appeared to be drunk and was causing a commotion and trouble on the bus, even dropping his trousers to the other irate passengers shamelessly.

Mr Lim added that after the Indian national left the bus, he continue to move alongside and close to the bus in an unsteady manner.

When he stumbled and fell, his body was caught in the rear wheels and was ran over.

The High Commissioner has requested Sun TV to correct its report both online and broadcast.

“Many-to-Many discussion”

Since: Dec 13

Hong Kong

#18 Dec 11, 2013
Waken Up Lions wrote:
Conversation with a Former Government Official
I just finished a conversation with a Retired Government Official.
Official:“Your suggestion of using many-to-many discussion forums will meet with much opposition within the Hong Kong Government.”
Lion:“Why? It is the latest technology and the best ideas will get raised and discussed.”
……
It looks like the tactics used by the Hong Kong Government to keep repeating the adherence to Basic Law did not go well. What should be the recommended approach?

One possible approach is to encourage many non-government bodies to set up many-to-many discussion forums similar to this one. Let many ideas furnish. A more official and moderated forum can then be set up later.
The political statements from the Government should be more “high-level” such as:
1. We all aim to do the best for the Citizens of Hong Kong.
2. We all know that there is room for improvement in the present political set up.
3. We want to identify such “room for improvement”.
4. We seek help and opinion from all Citizens to identify such “room for improvement”.
5. We understand that there are restrictions but at this stage, any innovative idea is encouraged.

With many-to-many discussion forums, some ideas not previously “thought of” will emerge. Some may be at their infancy but may be very constructive (e.g Super Democracy and Super Disclosure).

Waken Up Lions

“Many-to-Many discussion”

Since: Dec 13

Hong Kong

#19 Dec 11, 2013
One totally unexpected suggestion at the swimming pool.

I go swimming almost every day to exercise my old bones. In between laps, I pause and may have casual conversation with some strangers. Since they do not wear any jewel or watches, there is no hint on their status.

Stranger:“If Beijing says that Emily Lau (the chairperson of the Hong Kong Democratic Party) is Patriotic and Loves Hong Kong - that will resolve the dead-lock. Beijing does not need to endorse her or the Democratic Party.”

Interesting suggestion…..

Waken Up Lions

“Many-to-Many discussion”

Since: Dec 13

Hong Kong

#20 Dec 12, 2013
From: Lion J

Lion A, your background story on Emily Lau is helpful. "Playing God" is a bit funny, though.
**********
Dear Lion J,

*** Playing God means we can create new rules of the game. We can ignore the "traditional approach". We can ignore the present political climate. We can just focus on researching and proposing the constructive ideas.

*** I watched the ATV show "over a glass of wine" where they discussed the recent set up of a Hong Kong and Macau Study Group in Beijing. Mr. Lau, the former Chief Advisor to the Hong Kong Central Policy Unit is vice chairman. This Group have hundreds of top academics, officials, experts, etc in China, Hong Kong and Macau. It will be the think-tank for the Chinese Government and has funding. Much of its research will be good reference material for the Hong Kong Government and Citizens. Our views will fall on eager ears.....

**********

You can google“Emily Lau Hong Kong Legislator” and get some of her background information.

I know her brother, the Late Edward Lau, very well. I know Edward since I was 12. He was my Bridge Partner. The Laus lost their father at a young age. They struggled through poverty via education.

Edward became an accountant and married Nora Fok, the daughter of the late Fok Ying Tung. Mr. Fok had very close ties with Beijing.

Emily entered politics and was very outspoken. She received top votes when elected as Member of the Legislative Council. Many claimed that she was anti-Beijing.

Thus if Beijing says that she is patriotic and loves Hong Kong (which is true even though many of her words and actions are not to the liking of Beijing), that will be a hint that many pro-democratic party members can participate as candidates for the Chief Executive.

Qualified as a candidate does not mean that she can win the election. She has to further show her capability; beat other candidates at the Universal Suffrage etc.

The implementation of Super Democracy and Super Disclosure now will give 3 years for Beijing and Hong Kong Citizens to further analyze her, her policies and her supporters.

Other potentialcandidates will emerge.(C. Y. Leung is expected to run for another term; at least one pro-Beijing candidate from DAB will emerge). Their constructive “marketing” of themselves, their vision, their policies and their supporters will improve the political future of Hong Kong.

If the maximum number of candidates in the Universal Suffrage is allowed to be 5, the chance of a pro-democratic candidate in the running will be high. The dead-lock is solved.

As total outsiders, we can use the improved Silicon Valley Mentality and play God. Politics is a funny game. There are no forever friends or forever enemies…..

Waken Up Lions

“Many-to-Many discussion”

Since: Dec 13

Hong Kong

#21 Dec 13, 2013
From Lion D
If Mrs. Lam et al push the written statements in the Basic Law, it is likely to be a repeat of Mrs. Ip pushing Article 23. There will be no winners. Mrs. Lam et al may have to take the blame and step down. What a pity.

Lion A:“Do you have any solution?”

Lion D:“We are the Gods. We can always make rules and propose solutions. My suggestion is to subcontract the discussion to a “Consultant Group”. Let the “Consultant Group” do the many-to-many discussion forums. Let the Consultant Group take the credit and the blame for the project. Have an open bid to award the contract.”

Lion A:“Is it too late? The Public Consultation has started.”

Lion D:“It is never too late if the Government knows that it is heading along a dead-end path.”

Waken Up Lions

“Many-to-Many discussion”

Since: Dec 13

Hong Kong

#22 Dec 14, 2013
China's lunar probe Chang'e-3, with the country's first moon rover onboard, successfully landed on the moon on Saturday night, marking the first time that China has sent a spacecraft to soft land on the surface of an extraterrestrial body.

Such achievement will continue to improve the standing of CHina in the World. Hong Kongese will be proud to be with the "One Country".

How should the Hong Kong Government leverage on this?

“Many-to-Many discussion”

Since: Dec 13

Hong Kong

#23 Dec 15, 2013
Waken Up Lions wrote:
China's lunar probe Chang'e-3, with the country's first moon rover onboard, successfully landed on the moon on Saturday night, marking the first time that China has sent a spacecraft to soft land on the surface of an extraterrestrial body.
Such achievement will continue to improve the standing of China in the World. Hong Kongese will be proud to be with the "One Country".
How should the Hong Kong Government leverage on this?
From Lion L:

I believe China has perfected the “Yes, We can.” attitude of President Obama. You call it the improved Silicon Valley Mentality. I shall word it in the following format:

(1) Yes, we can become the number one economic power in the World.
(2) Yes, we can catch up and surpass both USA and Russia in the Space Technology.
(3) Yes, we can get our youngsters better educated than the rest of the World.
(4) Yes, we can build a political system much better than the Democratic System used in the West.
(5) Yes, we can achieve One World, One Dream without resorting to war and conquest.

With that attitude, solving the trivial Election Problems in Hong Kong in 2016 and 2017 is a piece of cake.

“Many-to-Many discussion”

Since: Dec 13

Hong Kong

#24 Dec 17, 2013
Spend the day talking and thinking about the potential Chief Executive for Hong Kong in 2017.

(1) C. Y. Leung is likely to be a candidate. Most Chief Executives would run for two terms. He is definitely hard-working and willing to go out to get Public Opinion. He and his team have four more years to prove themselves.
(2) Someone from the DAB Camp. DAB is now the largest political party in Hong Kong. They tried hard at the District Council Level. However, they may not want to have a potential candidate to compete to avoid conflict with Beijing and the present Hong Kong Government.
(3) Someone from the pro-Democratic Camp. A potential candidate is the chairwoman, Emily Lau. However, the act of putting a potential candidate without securing an agreed election procedure will be seen as surrender. Thus there is unlikely to be any action from this Camp for some time.
(4) One or more independent Candidates. This may be the most likely scenario. Some independent candidates may just want their views known or their names recognized. In this “political vacuum”, any good, logical approach will be appreciated or even welcomed by the General Public.
(5) Some of the retirees like us do not have political ambitions any more but we still believe that we have something to contribute. We can air out our views in forums similar to this. Sow the seeds….

Waken Up Lions

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