It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103299 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Marauder

Anchorage, AK

#78966 Oct 6, 2012
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
An ounce of worry on my part won't change it any more that it will wake you gun twits up about the futility of guns, or stop thalidomite or breast implants...you just have to wait for people to die or suffer horribly and then things pretty much take their natural course ie people get outraged, get motivated, and get them banned or taken off the market, it is the way of things...It took them 50 years to ban some of those things I mentioned in the last post, so things move slowly but they do move, and that is just the way it is. People need time to build rage.
"It took them 50 years to ban some of those things I mentioned in the last post, so things move slowly but they do move, and that is just the way it is. People need time to build rage."

Exactly...that's why it took 30 years for the right case to challenge the DC gun ban the USSC overturned. We have a lot more laws to go so watch them go down.

The rage has been building a long time and people are feedup with the continued gov't infringements on our rights.

Since: Jan 11

Abingdon, VA

#78967 Oct 6, 2012
Dr Freud wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, you're remiss on a few facts there.
The U.S. National Archives is in possession of message traffic which took place between the U.S. and the U.K., along with between the U.S., Hawaii, and MacArthur in the Philippines.
In the case of the former (U.S.-U.K.), there had been extensive communication regarding the code-breaking of Japan's naval communications. That code-breaking had taken place over a year prior to the attack on Pearl Harbor, by the Brits. The info was handed over to the U.S.
Regarding the message traffic between the U.S., Hawaii, and MacArthur, both Admiral Hummel and Gen. Short were intentionally kept out of the communications loop because FDR need two patsies to take the heat for what followed.
There's a rather excellent tome on the matter which you should seek to either acquire, or read at a good library: Day Of Deceit, The Truth About FDR And Pearl Harbor, by Robert B. Stinnett (2001)
Three other tomes are:
[1] The New Dealers' War, FDR And The War Within WW II, by Thomas Flemming (2001)
[2] Roosevelt's Secret War, FDR And World War II Espionage, by Joseph E. Persico (2001)
[3] President Roosevelt And The Coming Of The War 1941, by Charles A. Beard (1948)(out of print).
The gist of all the presented information, is that FDR KNEW what was going to happen, long before it actually did happen, figuring that in order to get the American people to go along with his plans, he needed to instigate behind the scenes to cause a terrible event to take place.
In Stinnett's book mentioned above, the Pentagon had actually connived to present a plan which calculatedly instigated hostilities between the U.S. and Japan, by way of trade sanctions and embargoes, and FDR implemented it wholly.
Yes, I am aware of the steel and oil embargo against Japan. I didn't think he was provoking a war with Japan. I know he was provoking one in Europe. Although FDR may have been provoking hostilities with Japan, I don't think anyone knew the attack would specifically occur in Hawaii. Transmissions would normally go through Hawaii to the Philippines and MacArthur in those days. I think they were expecting something in that area. The transmissions to the British would also be normal being the embargoes were in response to British interests in the area. You bring up a good point, the admiral and the general were kept out of the loop. That was possibly due to an attack on Hawaii was not feasible in those days.

I wrote down the the book titles and will check them out, thank you.

Since: Jan 11

Abingdon, VA

#78968 Oct 6, 2012
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
The yanks had a minesweeper that had sighted a submarine and alerted the destroyer Ward to go take care of it about 3 hours before the planes were spotted on the radar at Oahu (one of six radar stations, I might add), they could have easily alerted the ships to get out to open sea and the planes on the ground to get into the air, no one did until it was too late, typical of ignorant American behavior, being so confident that they couldn't or wouldn't dare be attacked. Their ships and planes had so much fire power on the ground and on the water and what good did it do without the nouse to use it!
They had a similar attitude to 911, with their ongoing problems with Afghanistan,Iran and their continued support of Israel, the Americans never once saw "their country" as a target, even after they managed to bomb the US Cole with apparent ease....The yanks still did not believe for one second that anyone there(in the backwaters) had either the smarts or the ability to actually attack Americans where the lived....seems they are a tad slow on the pick up and didn't learn much from Pearl harbour..did they?
They had spotted many submarines before that. That one was the first one that attempted to enter the harbor. That doesn't correlate with an air attack by a country thousands of miles away which was considered nearly impossible in those days. One submarine possibly doing some spying doesn't add up to attack.

It's good to view 911 with hindsight, isn't it. Who would have thought of people commandeering an airliner and flying it into a building before that?
Dr Freud

Copenhagen, Denmark

#78969 Oct 6, 2012
_0rion_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Be carfeful then, suicide is illegal in Australia.
A valid question: Precisely how to they punish suicide, in Australia?
Is there some kind of post suicide hanging, or some such?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Dr Freud

Copenhagen, Denmark

#78970 Oct 6, 2012
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I am aware of the steel and oil embargo against Japan. I didn't think he was provoking a war with Japan. I know he was provoking one in Europe. Although FDR may have been provoking hostilities with Japan, I don't think anyone knew the attack would specifically occur in Hawaii. Transmissions would normally go through Hawaii to the Philippines and MacArthur in those days. I think they were expecting something in that area. The transmissions to the British would also be normal being the embargoes were in response to British interests in the area. You bring up a good point, the admiral and the general were kept out of the loop. That was possibly due to an attack on Hawaii was not feasible in those days.
I wrote down the the book titles and will check them out, thank you.
"I wrote down the the book titles and will check them out, thank you."

Good for you! And you WILL learn much as a result upon inspecting those tomes!
Do me a favor? Whatever you discover, PLEASE pass that info on so that others will be so informed?
Thank you in advance!
Dr Freud

Copenhagen, Denmark

#78971 Oct 6, 2012
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
They had spotted many submarines before that. That one was the first one that attempted to enter the harbor. That doesn't correlate with an air attack by a country thousands of miles away which was considered nearly impossible in those days. One submarine possibly doing some spying doesn't add up to attack.
It's good to view 911 with hindsight, isn't it. Who would have thought of people commandeering an airliner and flying it into a building before that?
" Who would have thought of people commandeering an airliner and flying it into a building before that?"

Worse yet, WHO would have EVEN CONSIDERED that their OWN NATION'S GOVERNMENT would have CONNIVED to make that happen by using DRONE AIRCRAFT, and have planted explosives in those buildings to make them SELF-DESTRUCT as they did?
But all of THAT is 'impossible,' right?
It could 'never' happen, right?
NOBODY would EVER THINK of such an act, right?
Right?
FIRST WAKEUP CALL: U.S.S. MAINE

SECOND WAKEUP CALL: OPERATION NORTHWOODS.

THIRD WAKEUP CALL: Gulf of Tonkin

FOURTH WAKEUP CALL: Goatherds in Afghanistan brought down THREE BUILDINGS in NYC.

FIFTH WAKEUP CALL: WMD in Iraq (none found)

HOW MANY WAKEUP CALLS DO AMERICANS NEED BEFORE THE FUCKING WAKEUP?

“Topix is lowlife scum with no”

Since: Jun 12

respect for anyone...

#78972 Oct 7, 2012
Dr Freud wrote:
<quoted text>
A valid question: Precisely how to they punish suicide, in Australia?
Is there some kind of post suicide hanging, or some such?
Inquiring minds want to know!
Interesting, according to what I can find it seems I was wrong, the laws have been changed.
In Queensland where I am, Section 312 "Attempting to Commit Suicide" was omitted from the Criminal Code in 1979.

From the following .pdf - http://www.nt.gov.au/justice/policycoord/docu...

Suicide:
Suicide and attempted suicide are no longer offences anywhere in Australia.
All jurisdictions prohibit what is variously described as procuring, counselling, inciting, instigating, aiding or abetting suicide.
The current NT offence prohibits procuring, counselling or aiding another to kill or attempt to kill himself.
The penalty is life imprisonment.

The maximum penalty for the various prohibited acts that may be
described as assisting or encouraging suicide differs greatly across jurisdictions:
ACT : 10 years;
NSW : 10 years for aiding and abetting and five years for inciting or counselling;
SA : 14 years for aiding, abetting or counselling where suicide is committed and eight years where it was attempted but death did not result.
These penalties are reduced to five and two years respectively where the acts were part of a suicide pact;
Queensland and Western Australia : life imprisonment;
Tasmania : 21 years;
Victoria : general penalties of five years for the assisting or encouraging suicide offences but also provides that if a person is tried for murder and the jury find on the balance of probabilities that the person was the survivor of a suicide pact they are to return a verdict of manslaughter for which a reduced penalty of 10 years applies.
In addition to these offences it may be noted that the Commonwealth Criminal Code
was amended with effect from 1 January 2006 to add offences in relation to the use
of a “carriage service” for suicide related materials.
The penalties for these offences are 1000 penalty units.
The Model Code creates two separate offences of assisting suicide and encouraging
suicide.
MCCOC recommended that the assisting offence should carry a greater
penalty than the encouraging offence.
Although the Committee did not elaborate its rationale, the recommendation appears to be made on the basis that an act which assists another person to attempt to kill or actually kill themselves is more culpable than an act by which another person provides encouragement towards that end.
MCCOC recommended penalties of seven and five years respectively.
The penalty of life imprisonment in Western Australia and Queensland may be seen as reflective of the view taken of suicide at the time of the enactment of those Codes around the the turn of the 20 century.
The issue is whether the offences should be separated and if so whether the
MCCOC recommended penalties should be applied.

So, go right ahead Ahomana, looks like doesn't matter if you screw it up :)
Dr Freud

Copenhagen, Denmark

#78973 Oct 7, 2012
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually now that you bring it up we have, but one of it's quirks is that it hones in on stupidity, so it has us continually forcusing on US citizens.
So, you're accusing yourself of your own acts?
How appropriate!!

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#78974 Oct 7, 2012
Dr Freud wrote:
<quoted text>
No, of course not. That is, not to your present 'personality.'
Hey, I come back on after only a few days and you people had died....Great going there MT.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#78975 Oct 7, 2012
_0rion_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Be carfeful then, suicide is illegal in Australia.
You should keep a low profile they shoot vermin in Australia, those big ears make you and easy mark. LOL.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#78976 Oct 7, 2012
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
They had spotted many submarines before that. That one was the first one that attempted to enter the harbor. That doesn't correlate with an air attack by a country thousands of miles away which was considered nearly impossible in those days. One submarine possibly doing some spying doesn't add up to attack.
It's good to view 911 with hindsight, isn't it. Who would have thought of people commandeering an airliner and flying it into a building before that?
I would have thought any sighting of a submarine close to a military base would raise some concerns and put everyone in close proximity on full alert, Top marks to the Japanese though for keeping the Americans talking because it threw them off the scent,even if they had suspicions they believed that time was on their side as long as the Embassador kept communicating with them....their mistake, it was brilliant because not even the Embassador knew it was coming till the last minute, a brilliant ploy on all accounts.

It's about logic not hindsight...after America assisted the Taliban in Afghanistan to oppose Russia, then the bombing of the Cole it should have been the warning they needed that the natives weren't happy....but to presume that America itself wouldn't be a possible target was both naive and stupid.
We have the same situation occuring in the South China Sea...we are now a target because that is the next big push and we have based the yanks in Darwin, we have had drones spotted in and outgoing from a SA military base and they don't belong to us, so it has nothing to do with hindsight and everything to do with what position you play in the scheme of things, how involved you are and who is aiding who's enemies.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#78977 Oct 7, 2012
Marauder wrote:
<quoted text>
You forget what I already told you...?
State and local laws must now be in compliance with the 2nd Amendment as it has been incorporated into the 14th Amendment since McDonald v Chicago.
There is nothing to face except the continued attacks against the rights of the people and stand up against those that push to infringe on them.
Generations of more gun owners not in the city areas, still in the wilderness because it is understandable but in the burbs...Nope, my money is on gun control.
Marauder

Anchorage, AK

#78978 Oct 7, 2012
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Generations of more gun owners not in the city areas, still in the wilderness because it is understandable but in the burbs...Nope, my money is on gun control.
The individual rights of the people are not dependent upon the location of their residence.

"...my money is on gun control."

A losing position.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#78979 Oct 7, 2012
spider1954 wrote:
<quoted text>
Im surprised they let her out of it,,,it must be dificult to type whilst wearing a restraint.
I bet she gnaws her way out.

She is starting to remind me of jack, who got chased off of here a couple of years ago. Or convicted.

Either way!

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#78980 Oct 7, 2012
spider1954 wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again you are wrong,,there is documented evidence, both here and in the US,that states both the British and American gonernments had knowledge of the Pearl Harbour attack prior to the event,,Ill leave you to figure out for yourself, WHY, nothing was done.
Check it out.
I do tend to believe that particular conspiracy theory.

I have not seen any credible evidence, but liberals have never had a problem sacrificing the "peasants" for a greater cause.
Check out his liberal buffalo.



I have seen the evidence that FDR tried to use the gunboat Panay as an excuse, but the Japs apologized their way out of that one.

I find it interesting that the CVA's were out on "whatever" when the battlewagons got blasted.

And the commanders in Hawaii were told to worry about sabotage, not an attack. So the planes were kept bunched up, instead of dispersed.

And we knew it could happen. A previous Navy exercise showed that same exact attack.

The main good thing from Pearl was it shut up all the nay sayers.

That fight we needed to get into.

And a lot of people do believe the ends justifies the means.

Too bad we have dumbshits like aho that have no frinkin idea what the end of guns means.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#78981 Oct 7, 2012
ConvictStreak wrote:
"I think the world would be a much better place if there were no guns. Then we could finally focus on the important things, like sword fighting, and how to kill a man with one punch."
Unfortunately, true words!!!

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#78982 Oct 7, 2012
Dr Freud wrote:
<quoted text>
And it follows the very same schedule as another well-known troll, with whom you've had extensive back and forth. Said troll employs the very same argument style as well.
I guess we know JACK!!!!

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#78983 Oct 7, 2012
spider1954 wrote:
<quoted text>
Tis rather strange, that the rabbit has gone missing,, twins or split personality?, the latter of the two would explain much.
I disagree. Since bunny has been posting here, she actually learned how to use google.

She still does not really know how to use that knowledge, but she uses it.

Unless she is smart enough to change her MO??

Aho kind of reminds me of jack. I believe freud remembers the actual handle.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#78984 Oct 7, 2012
Dagobert II wrote:
<quoted text> What, you haven't yet developed the ability to telekinetically stop a beating heart from a continent away?
Shhhhh, don't let out our secrets.
Marauder

Anchorage, AK

#78987 Oct 7, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree. Since bunny has been posting here, she actually learned how to use google.
She still does not really know how to use that knowledge, but she uses it.
Unless she is smart enough to change her MO??
Aho kind of reminds me of jack. I believe freud remembers the actual handle.
"Since bunny has been posting here, she actually learned how to use google.
She still does not really know how to use that knowledge, but she uses it."

She just doesn't provide her sources and then asks others for theirs.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Australia Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Why are white people the most retarded and leas... (May '13) 13 hr Tatyana Lewis 23
News Abused girl shot, dimembered stepfather (Sep '12) Wed Concerned 11
News Scorching summer swelter hits southeast Wed tony briar mitchell 1
Wana trade nudes? (Jun '13) Wed jeff 7
why are arabs so racist against non arabs? (Jun '13) Jan 16 Meow101 22
How to get Quality Weed / Hashes & Meds in Pert... Jan 14 Jesse 4
How to get Quality Weed / Hashes & Meds in Melb... Jan 14 Jesse 6
More from around the web