What is the Origin of Chinese Racism?

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“REFUSE ALL IMITATIONS!!”

Since: Jan 11

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#41
Dec 12, 2012
 

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yeah right wrote:
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Interesting. I remember that comment as well from somewhere, wish I could remember who said it.
I also remember having to quell my rising gorge whilst watching the Chinese commentator at the Beijing Olympics literally choke on tears of pride as her countrymen and women marched around the stadium. It was very strange to watch. The other commentators looked at her oddly as well, as I recall. Her emotional response was so over the top that it seemed a bit nuts.
National pride seems to be everything - as if they are only good little soldiers in service of their country. I can see the link between nationalism and racism in China, but how on earth would it have become so entrenched that they cannot see it themselves?
Your comments remind me of a couple of other attributes that belong in the mix. In common with some nearby Asian countries China too seem se display a stark lack of that personal 'individuality' that western cultures not only celebrate, but neglect at their peril. Not so in China. Individuality seems almost to be frowned upon. Offences against "Public Order" rate among the most readily punished behaviors. Regimentation seems prized, to degrees that can astonish Westerners. An outstanding example is coordinated and synchronized mass displays such as at sporting events and national celebrations. It would not matter whether there were 12 identically outfitted and choreographed performers, or 12 thousand, their precision would be the same, like one performer in thousands of mirrors. This takes incredible dedication and discipline, yet Asians seem to take that in their stride better than we with our maverick western individuality can. We really have to work at it.

Now the question arises, is all this Asian cultural regimentation beneficial? Is it all simply synchronization for its own sake, or does it have actual spin-off benefits? Somehow I doubt the latter. I believe such regimentation of action reflects regimentation of thought, putting innovation further out of reach than would otherwise be the case. Typically, Chinese seem to blossom inventively more in western environments that encourage that.

My other point is sure to tread on a few toes but ... "publish & be damned". The sheer enormity of Chinese Population seems to have a "life is cheap" effect on their system of values. When poor industrial safety standards enable a mine collapse to snuff out the lives of some 50 miners at a stroke, there seems almost a national shrug of the shoulders as if to say "plenty more where they came from". Untimely losses of life seem readily absorbed by a populace of some 1.5 Billion. One gets the feeling that Chinese by & large take Human life more for granted and expendable than we do. "Autistic" lack of Empathy can be afforded when one has an inexhaustible supply of lives available.

By contrast, Australia with its puny little 23 million is such an intimate village that every life begun or ended makes more of an impact, and is valued more accordingly.
yeah right

Melbourne, Australia

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#42
Dec 12, 2012
 
The ADELAIDEAN wrote:
<quoted text>
Your comments remind me of a couple of other attributes that belong in the mix. In common with some nearby Asian countries China too seem se display a stark lack of that personal 'individuality' that western cultures not only celebrate, but neglect at their peril. Not so in China. Individuality seems almost to be frowned upon. Offences against "Public Order" rate among the most readily punished behaviors. Regimentation seems prized, to degrees that can astonish Westerners. An outstanding example is coordinated and synchronized mass displays such as at sporting events and national celebrations. It would not matter whether there were 12 identically outfitted and choreographed performers, or 12 thousand, their precision would be the same, like one performer in thousands of mirrors. This takes incredible dedication and discipline, yet Asians seem to take that in their stride better than we with our maverick western individuality can. We really have to work at it.
Now the question arises, is all this Asian cultural regimentation beneficial? Is it all simply synchronization for its own sake, or does it have actual spin-off benefits? Somehow I doubt the latter. I believe such regimentation of action reflects regimentation of thought, putting innovation further out of reach than would otherwise be the case. Typically, Chinese seem to blossom inventively more in western environments that encourage that.
My other point is sure to tread on a few toes but ... "publish & be damned". The sheer enormity of Chinese Population seems to have a "life is cheap" effect on their system of values. When poor industrial safety standards enable a mine collapse to snuff out the lives of some 50 miners at a stroke, there seems almost a national shrug of the shoulders as if to say "plenty more where they came from". Untimely losses of life seem readily absorbed by a populace of some 1.5 Billion. One gets the feeling that Chinese by & large take Human life more for granted and expendable than we do. "Autistic" lack of Empathy can be afforded when one has an inexhaustible supply of lives available.
By contrast, Australia with its puny little 23 million is such an intimate village that every life begun or ended makes more of an impact, and is valued more accordingly.
Well - regimentation is highly beneficial if you want to raise an army ;)

I've noted the strong desire for uniformity as well. In Japan it's legendary and takes some very weird forms.

Maybe the glazed look in the eye when disaster occurs is a face saving measure?

But I'm still no closer to understanding why Chinese (or Korea, or Japanese) people do not understand their own racism LOL.
Elias

Glen Waverley, Australia

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#43
Dec 12, 2012
 

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yeah right wrote:
<quoted text>But I'm still no closer to understanding why Chinese (or Korea, or Japanese) people do not understand their own racism LOL.
Collective parochialism blinds empathy to individuals.
yeah right

Melbourne, Australia

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#44
Dec 12, 2012
 
Elias wrote:
<quoted text>
Collective parochialism blinds empathy to individuals.
Interesting. Perhaps also to other 'collectives', such as race.
LMR

Altona, Australia

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#45
Dec 12, 2012
 
The ADELAIDEAN wrote:
<quoted text>
Your comments remind me of a couple of other attributes that belong in the mix. In common with some nearby Asian countries China too seem se display a stark lack of that personal 'individuality' that western cultures not only celebrate, but neglect at their peril. Not so in China. Individuality seems almost to be frowned upon. Offences against "Public Order" rate among the most readily punished behaviors. Regimentation seems prized, to degrees that can astonish Westerners. An outstanding example is coordinated and synchronized mass displays such as at sporting events and national celebrations. It would not matter whether there were 12 identically outfitted and choreographed performers, or 12 thousand, their precision would be the same, like one performer in thousands of mirrors. This takes incredible dedication and discipline, yet Asians seem to take that in their stride better than we with our maverick western individuality can. We really have to work at it.
Now the question arises, is all this Asian cultural regimentation beneficial? Is it all simply synchronization for its own sake, or does it have actual spin-off benefits? Somehow I doubt the latter. I believe such regimentation of action reflects regimentation of thought, putting innovation further out of reach than would otherwise be the case. Typically, Chinese seem to blossom inventively more in western environments that encourage that.
My other point is sure to tread on a few toes but ... "publish & be damned". The sheer enormity of Chinese Population seems to have a "life is cheap" effect on their system of values. When poor industrial safety standards enable a mine collapse to snuff out the lives of some 50 miners at a stroke, there seems almost a national shrug of the shoulders as if to say "plenty more where they came from". Untimely losses of life seem readily absorbed by a populace of some 1.5 Billion. One gets the feeling that Chinese by & large take Human life more for granted and expendable than we do. "Autistic" lack of Empathy can be afforded when one has an inexhaustible supply of lives available.
By contrast, Australia with its puny little 23 million is such an intimate village that every life begun or ended makes more of an impact, and is valued more accordingly.
I don't think it's fair to say that one style is better than the other - they each have their own benefits in a particular environment. Asians are better at maths probably due to this sort of discipline whilst westerners may be more creative. Both maths and creativity are important.

You can't blame people for not valuing what is so common. Although I wish people didn't have to suffer, I can't say it bothers me when I hear that some large number of people somewhere have died - there are too many of us after all. Death is not bad, only the suffering that often precedes death is bad.
Myth Buster

Sibu, Malaysia

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#46
Dec 12, 2012
 
Elias wrote:
<quoted text>
Given you are posting from Sabah I would be amazed if there was even 5 Indians in your mostly Chinese/Kadazan state. 50% of prison population? perhaps you are retired from busting myths and creating a few of your own.
I have lived in different parts of the country.The statistics I quoted was for the entire nation.
Here is some even more shocking statistics from the Human Rights Party of Malaysia (HRP is led by an Indian Uthayakumar)
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60% Malaysian prisoners jailed are Indians when they form only 8% of population! 37,947 prisoners in 43 prisons nationwide.
Elias

Glen Waverley, Australia

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#47
Dec 12, 2012
 
Myth Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
I have lived in different parts of the country.The statistics I quoted was for the entire nation.
Here is some even more shocking statistics from the Human Rights Party of Malaysia (HRP is led by an Indian Uthayakumar)
----------
60% Malaysian prisoners jailed are Indians when they form only 8% of population! 37,947 prisoners in 43 prisons nationwide.
I would like to get some verification on those stats nationwide. According to the Malaysian prisons website there are around 38,000 prisoners in Malaysia of which nearly 33% are foreign. There is no mention of the remainder but I recall seeing a profile of Pudu prison and I recall seeing mainly Malay, Indonesian and Chinese prisoners.
Myth Buster

Sibu, Malaysia

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#48
Dec 12, 2012
 
yeah right wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks I'll take a look.
I've seen and heard Chinese people in Australia make fun of and laugh with contempt at Aboriginal people. I've also seen them fist-pump and shout with glee at the murder of Americans (who they think are all white LOL).
You have any proof that this is wide spread?
I have been to Australia many times.
I am still wearing a t shirt with Aboriginal arts on it.
I like their art and that long tube musical instrument making very soothing sound.

Chinese cheering the death of Americans possible probably not common. There are 1.3 bil Chinese.
Myth Buster

Klang, Malaysia

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#49
Dec 12, 2012
 
Elias wrote:
<quoted text>
I would like to get some verification on those stats nationwide. According to the Malaysian prisons website there are around 38,000 prisoners in Malaysia of which nearly 33% are foreign. There is no mention of the remainder but I recall seeing a profile of Pudu prison and I recall seeing mainly Malay, Indonesian and Chinese prisoners.
If you key in what I have posted and google you will find it.
My server do not allow me to give u a link.
Myth Buster

Klang, Malaysia

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#50
Dec 12, 2012
 
yeah right wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL whoever is writing nonsense under my user name isn't me. I'm never drunk, though there are times I wish I were ;)
I don't make wild accusations either. What I am referring to is quite precise. I've seen Chinese people behaving in an extremely racist manner without having the capacity to understand that they are behaving that way. I am asking you if you can explain the rampant racism in the Chinese community and why it seems impossible for them to recognise that they are racist. Does that make sense to you?
U claimed that Chinese cheering 9/11 were racists.
Even if that is true, how can you say that is racist.
At most it is a political statement.
Do you consider Americans cheering the death of Bin Laden racists?
If you have a one track mind no matter what other do become racist to you.
Myth Buster

Klang, Malaysia

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#51
Dec 12, 2012
 

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The ADELAIDEAN wrote:
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If as it seems we are taliking 'national character' here, I recall that while busy on some task at home recently I had the TV going in the background as I often do. Some renowned Sociologist addressing a conference likened China as a country to a person with Autism.
That is, Capable of high performance strictly in its own interests insofar as it could determine what that meant ... but quite incapable of seeing the world through any other nation's point of view. A lack of empathy.
This should come as little surprise to long term 'China Watchers' who all seem to note in common the Chinese "inscrutibility" that generations of westerners have noted. Perhaps we are now confronted with a re-think that may resolve that legendary 'inscrutibility' into something even less engaging ... "indifference".
That would go a long way to explaining Chinese insularity of thinking regarding life beyond its borders.
Few westerners bother to learn Chinese. What they don't understand they leave it to their imagination.
There is also a bigger agenda at work, preparing the population for cold war 2.
sid

Brisbane, Australia

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#52
Dec 12, 2012
 

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yeah right wrote:
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Yes, that makes sense. But why then would they not be able to 'see' or understand their own racism?
For example: The asian guy who constantly changes newspaper headings and posts articles to reflect his hatred of white people in Australia (and probably elsewhere as well) doesn't understand that his hatred of white people is racist. And yet he appears to constantly fret about other people's racist attitudes towards him. How is it possible for so many Chinese (and others?) to believe that racism is limited to white people when they CLEARLY are racists? Do they lack some sort of intra-personal gene?
Just a few points I have observed about chinese.
1.They don't understand australian humour at all.
2. They have great contempt for perceived weakness [real or not].
3. They have deathly fear of losing face [being made a fool of].
4. They are ferociously intellectually competitive.
5. Often lack self confidence
6. Are control freaks.
7. Very class conscious yet won't admit it.
8. Extremely judgemental [ but who isn't].
9. Need to win in any situation.
10. Lack of self perception.
These points are not all negative.
Chinese racism stems from fear rather than hate.
In my experience this hateful dick that continually trawls up negative statistics is atypically chinese, you can bet your life there is other shit going on in his life that makes him spew this continual crap.
My beautiful wife of 10 years is chinese, my 25 year old chinese stepson is probably my best mate, we have three chinese students living with us that are very clean and tidy, polite and respectful. By respectful I don't mean that I am the king dick white boy in the house and they kiss my arse, I mean mutual respect given and returned.
My experience with doing business with chinese is another story.
yeah right

Hawthorn, Australia

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#53
Dec 12, 2012
 
Myth Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
You have any proof that this is wide spread?
I have been to Australia many times.
I am still wearing a t shirt with Aboriginal arts on it.
I like their art and that long tube musical instrument making very soothing sound.
Chinese cheering the death of Americans possible probably not common. There are 1.3 bil Chinese.
It's called a didgeridoo ;)

It was certainly "widespread" where I was. The Chinese are taught to hate Americans - this is their government propaganda. I have heard the nastiest, most uninformed comments; things I couldn't really believe coming out of their mouths, same type of comments toward Australia. I thought the muslims were bad, I had no idea that the Chinese were such awful bigots, racists and xenophobes. I also have a vague memory of the Chinese cheering some American deaths or a bombing in China some time past. You may remember this incident more clearly than I.

And yes, I personally would define them in these cases as xenophobic; except that in their minds, all Americans and all Australians are white.

You may be different from the masses of Chinese that I have met here - I couldn't believe their attitudes toward people who had darker skin than they did, and their attitudes toward everything that wasn't Chinese. It was appalling behaviour in my experience and really off-putting.

“REFUSE ALL IMITATIONS!!”

Since: Jan 11

Vermont, Australia

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#54
Dec 12, 2012
 
Myth Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
Few westerners bother to learn Chinese. What they don't understand they leave it to their imagination.
That theory doesn't hold up. Communication is not all verbal. Chinese give very little away with their facial expression. It makes them hard to read. For contrast I have spent much time with Pacific Islanders but know almost nothing about their languages. Yet in their company I could make a fair estimate of where their conversations were heading at any given time, because they are much more animated.

So it's not an Australian thing ... it's a Chinese thing. "Australians not bothering to learn Chinese" is no explanation of Chinese inscrutability.
Myth Buster wrote:
There is also a bigger agenda at work, preparing the population for cold war 2.
Hence Nationalism?
yeah right

Hawthorn, Australia

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#55
Dec 12, 2012
 
sid wrote:
<quoted text>
Just a few points I have observed about chinese.
1.They don't understand australian humour at all.
2. They have great contempt for perceived weakness [real or not].
3. They have deathly fear of losing face [being made a fool of].
4. They are ferociously intellectually competitive.
5. Often lack self confidence
6. Are control freaks.
7. Very class conscious yet won't admit it.
8. Extremely judgemental [ but who isn't].
9. Need to win in any situation.
10. Lack of self perception.
These points are not all negative.
Chinese racism stems from fear rather than hate.
In my experience this hateful dick that continually trawls up negative statistics is atypically chinese, you can bet your life there is other shit going on in his life that makes him spew this continual crap.
My beautiful wife of 10 years is chinese, my 25 year old chinese stepson is probably my best mate, we have three chinese students living with us that are very clean and tidy, polite and respectful. By respectful I don't mean that I am the king dick white boy in the house and they kiss my arse, I mean mutual respect given and returned.
My experience with doing business with chinese is another story.
That is really interesting and thoughtful. Thanks for taking the time to write it!

I believe I would agree with all of your points, based on my personal observation - except that I do find these points negative and don't have a lot of affinity with these particular characteristics.

Maybe the xenophobia is more pronounced than the racism - but I don't know - I have seen some really racist behaviour from Chinese nationals on a regular basis. They really seem to hate Indians as well as other darker skinned folk.

Do you think that your household is the norm? Or would you consider your loved ones and visitors rather uncommon? That may not be a fair question ;)

As for the bloke who posts all that garbage - I have no idea what's going on there. A lot of resentment and bad experiences I don't doubt.
sid

Brisbane, Australia

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#56
Dec 12, 2012
 

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The ADELAIDEAN wrote:
<quoted text>
That theory doesn't hold up. Communication is not all verbal. Chinese give very little away with their facial expression. It makes them hard to read. For contrast I have spent much time with Pacific Islanders but know almost nothing about their languages. Yet in their company I could make a fair estimate of where their conversations were heading at any given time, because they are much more animated.
So it's not an Australian thing ... it's a Chinese thing. "Australians not bothering to learn Chinese" is no explanation of Chinese inscrutability.
<quoted text>
Hence Nationalism?
One thing that I think a lot of people are forgetting is that probably 90% of chinese people live in an international information vacuum. Of course this changing with the younger generation on the net but even that is heavily censored. Last time I was in china there was only one english tv chanel in beijing. Chinese have been spoon feed high powered jingoism for ever, as well as extreme anticapitalist, antiwestern propaganda which has created unreasonable fear then hate resulting in racism.
Myth Buster

Labuan, Malaysia

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#57
Dec 12, 2012
 
yeah right wrote:
<quoted text>
It's called a didgeridoo ;)
It was certainly "widespread" where I was. The Chinese are taught to hate Americans - this is their government propaganda. I have heard the nastiest, most uninformed comments; things I couldn't really believe coming out of their mouths, same type of comments toward Australia. I thought the muslims were bad, I had no idea that the Chinese were such awful bigots, racists and xenophobes. I also have a vague memory of the Chinese cheering some American deaths or a bombing in China some time past. You may remember this incident more clearly than I.
And yes, I personally would define them in these cases as xenophobic; except that in their minds, all Americans and all Australians are white.
You may be different from the masses of Chinese that I have met here - I couldn't believe their attitudes toward people who had darker skin than they did, and their attitudes toward everything that wasn't Chinese. It was appalling behaviour in my experience and really off-putting.
If 0.07% of Chinese hate Americans that's 1 mil people.
You can pack 12 stadiums with that many people. USA being the 3rd most hated country in the world, according to a BBC survey, it is not hard to imagine that there are more than 0.07% Chinese who hate America.

Other white countries don't share the same unpopularity.. Germany, UK, Australia, Canada. They are ok with most people.
This is not a question of racism. It has to do with USA's track record... bombing Chinese Embassy in Belgrade, fighting wars everyday of the year for the last half centuries.

Over all Chinese do not rank anywhere near Americans as the most hated people in the world.
yeah right

Melbourne, Australia

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#58
Dec 12, 2012
 
Myth Buster wrote:
<quoted text>
If 0.07% of Chinese hate Americans that's 1 mil people.
You can pack 12 stadiums with that many people. USA being the 3rd most hated country in the world, according to a BBC survey, it is not hard to imagine that there are more than 0.07% Chinese who hate America.
Other white countries don't share the same unpopularity.. Germany, UK, Australia, Canada. They are ok with most people.
This is not a question of racism. It has to do with USA's track record... bombing Chinese Embassy in Belgrade, fighting wars everyday of the year for the last half centuries.
Over all Chinese do not rank anywhere near Americans as the most hated people in the world.
And yet you yourself identify these countries as "white". What does that tell you about yourself and your inability to identify the quality of racism as it resides in you?
yeah right

Melbourne, Australia

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#59
Dec 12, 2012
 
sid wrote:
<quoted text>
One thing that I think a lot of people are forgetting is that probably 90% of chinese people live in an international information vacuum. Of course this changing with the younger generation on the net but even that is heavily censored. Last time I was in china there was only one english tv chanel in beijing. Chinese have been spoon feed high powered jingoism for ever, as well as extreme anticapitalist, antiwestern propaganda which has created unreasonable fear then hate resulting in racism.
I'm sure that's got to be a huge part of it. But what is it about the Chinese (or Japanese or Korean people) that make it seemingly impossible to recognise their own racism?

Why do they insist that this is a phenomenon that only exists in what they would call "white countries" (even when these countries clearly aren't and don't identify that way)?
Myth Buster

Labuan, Malaysia

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#60
Dec 12, 2012
 

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sid wrote:
<quoted text>
One thing that I think a lot of people are forgetting is that probably 90% of chinese people live in an international information vacuum. Of course this changing with the younger generation on the net but even that is heavily censored. Last time I was in china there was only one english tv chanel in beijing. Chinese have been spoon feed high powered jingoism for ever, as well as extreme anticapitalist, antiwestern propaganda which has created unreasonable fear then hate resulting in racism.
I have not seen any anti-capitalist propaganda for the last 20 years.
This forum is more anti-capitalist than Chinese TV... Foo for example.
As for jingoism, I don't think China is anywhere near Mitt Romney.

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