Teen's shooting a 'tragic accident'

Oct 4, 2013 Full story: NEWS.com.au 85

A TEENAGER who accidentally shot his mate on a hunting trip has told of the horror of his friend's final moments.

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Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#1 Oct 4, 2013
How is this a tragic accident and not manslaughter?This boy held a junior shooter license which required him to be supervised by a licensed shooter, he wasn't at the time he shot his friend, although there were licensed shooters who knew the boys were breaking the law. This was a death caused by negligence and not just a tragic accident, while we continue to ignore and excuse negligence and law breaking where the punishment fails to fit the crime people will always believe they can get away without any legal repercussions for their actions be that the junior shooters or those charged with protecting them from themselves.

“REFUSE ALL IMITATIONS!!”

Since: Jan 11

Australia

#3 Oct 5, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
How is this a tragic accident and not manslaughter?This boy held a junior shooter license which required him to be supervised by a licensed shooter, he wasn't at the time he shot his friend, although there were licensed shooters who knew the boys were breaking the law. This was a death caused by negligence and not just a tragic accident, while we continue to ignore and excuse negligence and law breaking where the punishment fails to fit the crime people will always believe they can get away without any legal repercussions for their actions be that the junior shooters or those charged with protecting them from themselves.
In this case I have to agree. Licence conditions required qualified supervision. The accident might still have happened but would have been less likely if all were on the ball including an adult supervisor.

“REFUSE ALL IMITATIONS!!”

Since: Jan 11

Australia

#7 Oct 6, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
How is this a tragic accident and not manslaughter?
That might be unjust.

I'm not a legal expert but my understanding of 'manslaughter' is that at least some element of 'intent' is present. That is ... an intent to harm is present, but falls short of intent to kill. Death if it happens exceeds the intent of the aggressor.

No such element of intent was present in this tragedy.

At most it can be said that due care was not being exercised, so it becomes not a 'sin of commission' but a 'sin of omission'.

'causing death by negligence' would seem a better fit, and is itself serious enough. But it goes more to human fallibility than to criminality. As such it represents more an accident than a crime.

The surviving youth is unlikely to ever live down what he has done. It will cripple his own life. That is a sombre penalty.

The question arises ... should this event be seized upon as a self-serving opportunity to yet again vilify all guns and their owners by those who are always poised to vilify all guns and their owners?

Surely there is room in this for a sense of proportion.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#9 Oct 6, 2013
The ADELAIDEAN wrote:
<quoted text>
That might be unjust.
I'm not a legal expert but my understanding of 'manslaughter' is that at least some element of 'intent' is present. That is ... an intent to harm is present, but falls short of intent to kill. Death if it happens exceeds the intent of the aggressor.
No such element of intent was present in this tragedy.
At most it can be said that due care was not being exercised, so it becomes not a 'sin of commission' but a 'sin of omission'.
'causing death by negligence' would seem a better fit, and is itself serious enough. But it goes more to human fallibility than to criminality. As such it represents more an accident than a crime.
The surviving youth is unlikely to ever live down what he has done. It will cripple his own life. That is a sombre penalty.
The question arises ... should this event be seized upon as a self-serving opportunity to yet again vilify all guns and their owners by those who are always poised to vilify all guns and their owners?
Surely there is room in this for a sense of proportion.
A: I apologise for failing to be specific, Involuntary manslaughter.
And you call it human fallibility I call it clear and intentional negligence, not only should the lad be charged for IM but those who showed culpability by clearly breaking the law and allowing them to shoot without a licensed watcher to be present....jail for both....
I cannot believe such an incident as this can be treated so lightly in the courts, they boy as you say might be devastated at the loss of his friend and his part in it, but did he not think when he walked away from the group that he was going to shoot illegally? and that my friend is where it became a crime. We should come down hard on anyone who uses any weapon negligently when they knew enough to be able to acquire a junior gun license in the first place, I am sure the laws were specific and he would have had to agree to them, yet when left to his own devices chose to disregard them. This is why he and those that aided in his friends death should be found to be negligent and charged as so, the ownership of a gun should never be taken lightly, is my point, his friends death is a testament to that fact. IF, he they had both obeyed the rules (had the license holders) allowed them to go off on their own (when they knew it was illegal) had have either gone with them or refused them to use the guns without them this incident would not have happened. Our judicial system is an ass.
Effendi Bohong

Denpasar, Indonesia

#13 Oct 6, 2013
The death by gunshot of MalbarCACAControllers would be justifiable homicide, and the person who does it should receive the Nobel Prize for Peace.
My opinion

Australia

#14 Oct 6, 2013
I dont think this kid needs to be punished. Living with the fact he killed his best friend would be unbearable and punishing him more would leave a broken man with no use to society. Unless of course he went out with the intention of shooting him, but it doesnt sound like the case here
LOL

Kellyville, Australia

#15 Oct 6, 2013
Why is this news? Shitloads of whites murder each other every day. If one dies then it is instantly replaceable with another albino, so who cares if one dies.
Slag

Australia

#16 Oct 6, 2013
LOL wrote:
Why is this news? Shitloads of whites murder each other every day. If one dies then it is instantly replaceable with another albino, so who cares if one dies.
What was the point of this ^^ fuckwit?

“REFUSE ALL IMITATIONS!!”

Since: Jan 11

Australia

#19 Oct 7, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
A: I apologise for failing to be specific, Involuntary manslaughter.
And you call it human fallibility I call it clear and intentional negligence, not only should the lad be charged for IM but those who showed culpability by clearly breaking the law and allowing them to shoot without a licensed watcher to be present....jail for both....
I cannot believe such an incident as this can be treated so lightly in the courts, they boy as you say might be devastated at the loss of his friend and his part in it, but did he not think when he walked away from the group that he was going to shoot illegally? and that my friend is where it became a crime. We should come down hard on anyone who uses any weapon negligently when they knew enough to be able to acquire a junior gun license in the first place, I am sure the laws were specific and he would have had to agree to them, yet when left to his own devices chose to disregard them. This is why he and those that aided in his friends death should be found to be negligent and charged as so, the ownership of a gun should never be taken lightly, is my point, his friends death is a testament to that fact. IF, he they had both obeyed the rules (had the license holders) allowed them to go off on their own (when they knew it was illegal) had have either gone with them or refused them to use the guns without them this incident would not have happened. Our judicial system is an ass.
OK, if a charge sheet is drawn up it seems that "Criminal Negligence" should be somewhere on it leveled at one or more parties.

But if I understand correctly this investigation was not a criminal proceeding anyway. If it was a Coronial Inquest then formal charges might not come into it.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#20 Oct 7, 2013
The ADELAIDEAN wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, if a charge sheet is drawn up it seems that "Criminal Negligence" should be somewhere on it leveled at one or more parties.
But if I understand correctly this investigation was not a criminal proceeding anyway. If it was a Coronial Inquest then formal charges might not come into it.
That is right, and that is also wrong. because they did break the law as I perceive it, so I don't understand how we maintain such a double standard?
Is it against the law to fail to have a licensed person supervising a junior license shooter at all times? YES?
How many of them broke that law on that day?
Were there any repercussions of that clear and basic law being broken on that day, YES? then this should have been treated as a criminal offence and they all should have been charged for breaking the law. WTF is the point, what is so hard for you and those who think like you to understand here? It should be either one law for all, or no laws at all! We are fighting for gun control, if we are going to slap someone on the wrist for a gun offence whereby a person was killed because they all broke the law...we will soon be accepting what America so easily accepts as the norm. Cops should have laid charges, over these offences.
Nasty and hateful

Australia

#23 Oct 7, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
That is right, and that is also wrong. because they did break the law as I perceive it, so I don't understand how we maintain such a double standard?
Is it against the law to fail to have a licensed person supervising a junior license shooter at all times? YES?
How many of them broke that law on that day?
Were there any repercussions of that clear and basic law being broken on that day, YES? then this should have been treated as a criminal offence and they all should have been charged for breaking the law. WTF is the point, what is so hard for you and those who think like you to understand here? It should be either one law for all, or no laws at all! We are fighting for gun control, if we are going to slap someone on the wrist for a gun offence whereby a person was killed because they all broke the law...we will soon be accepting what America so easily accepts as the norm. Cops should have laid charges, over these offences.
Not everything is clear cut black and white, yes a law was broken but people who live rural are different to city dwellers. Rural kids learn to drive and shoot at young ages and are driving around the property shooting vermin and pests by 12, should those kids be prosecuted as well?

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#24 Oct 7, 2013
Nasty and hateful wrote:
<quoted text>Not everything is clear cut black and white, yes a law was broken but people who live rural are different to city dwellers. Rural kids learn to drive and shoot at young ages and are driving around the property shooting vermin and pests by 12, should those kids be prosecuted as well?
These kids aren't old enough to get a licence so they should be too young to have or shoot a gun...the parent or guardian here should be charged and charged heavily for encouraging these underaged kids break a law. How many other laws is it acceptable for you to break if you don't recognise the law on this one?
Nasty and hateful

Australia

#26 Oct 7, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
These kids aren't old enough to get a licence so they should be too young to have or shoot a gun...the parent or guardian here should be charged and charged heavily for encouraging these underaged kids break a law. How many other laws is it acceptable for you to break if you don't recognise the law on this one?
Have you ever spent any time on a farm? If no you arent qualified to comment on them.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#29 Oct 7, 2013
Nasty and hateful wrote:
<quoted text>Have you ever spent any time on a farm? If no you arent qualified to comment on them.
I am as qualified as any to speak on this issue, you have made yourself look like a fool and a law breaker by encouraging the right of farmers to teach their kids to shoot without a licences thus breaking the law, and then you will all cry and call it a tragic accident when one of these kids shoots their sibling or parent...a tragic accident my arse...there are over 300 child deaths in the US through this very action of people teaching under aged kids to use guns....sobs, 300 TRAGIC ACCIDENTS and not 300 unadulterated cases of adult or parental negligence and lack of government enforcing laws and arrests and charges that allows more and more kids to die every year by this method.
Nasty and hateful

Australia

#30 Oct 7, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
I am as qualified as any to speak on this issue, you have made yourself look like a fool and a law breaker by encouraging the right of farmers to teach their kids to shoot without a licences thus breaking the law, and then you will all cry and call it a tragic accident when one of these kids shoots their sibling or parent...a tragic accident my arse...there are over 300 child deaths in the US through this very action of people teaching under aged kids to use guns....sobs, 300 TRAGIC ACCIDENTS and not 300 unadulterated cases of adult or parental negligence and lack of government enforcing laws and arrests and charges that allows more and more kids to die every year by this method.
As I thought you know f all on rural life so please dont display anymore of your ignorance on the issue, you are making a fool of yourself.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#31 Oct 7, 2013
Nasty and hateful wrote:
<quoted text>As I thought you know f all on rural life so please dont display anymore of your ignorance on the issue, you are making a fool of yourself.
I

I believe you have the fool tag covered with your idiotic statement about kids shooting guns illegally.
Nasty and hateful

Australia

#32 Oct 7, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>I
I believe you have the fool tag covered with your idiotic statement about kids shooting guns illegally.
Spend a week on a station know-it-all. Learning about guns and gun safety comes just after learning to walk and talk when you live 8 hours by car from the nearest human. Try and use some common sense and remember what works for some doesnt work for others

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#33 Oct 7, 2013
Nasty and hateful wrote:
<quoted text>Spend a week on a station know-it-all. Learning about guns and gun safety comes just after learning to walk and talk when you live 8 hours by car from the nearest human. Try and use some common sense and remember what works for some doesnt work for others
That's funny I thought the law applies to all, oh, what's that, it does?...you just choose to ignore it, I thought so!
Nasty and hateful

Australia

#34 Oct 7, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
That's funny I thought the law applies to all, oh, what's that, it does?...you just choose to ignore it, I thought so!
Not me, I dont live out there, but the rule of common sense is more relevant out there

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#40 Oct 7, 2013
Nasty and hateful wrote:
<quoted text>Not me, I dont live out there, but the rule of common sense is more relevant out there
You think? The fact that kids kill kids with guns that daddy taught them to use without the proper authority would mean they have little or no common sense at all and that you are twisted.

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