The real Hazara problem

[Adam]

I heard that the people in Hazara are already thinking that Hazara is a defacto province because the provincial government does not exist there. If public in Hazara thinks that Khyber Pukhtoonkhwa should be limitted to Pashto speaking people from othe side of Attock becasue this name is based on Pashto language and should not be imposed on people who speak Hindko, they have the right. To me "Pukhtoonkhwa" is a great name for Pashto speakign people on other side of Attock but it should not be imposed on people of Hazara. We shoudl not compare the name Pukhtoonkhwa with Manshehra, Abbotabad, and Haripur because those names are based of Mansingh, Harisingh, and Abbot. The people of Hazara do not care about names. They want Hazara province not becasuse they do not like Pukhtoonkhwa but becasue it is logically located such that it can become a province.

[Adam]

RK Golra wrote:

<quoted text>
@ Malakand,
For your information if you exclude non pushto speaking belts Chitral, DI Khan and Hazara from Khwamukhwa (I mean for some writer it’s difficult to pronounce ….) the remaining area or enclave left should be declared as Mardan province. As ANP strong hold is mardan, swabi, charsadda and to some extent Peshawar and also they represent 11% of the polled vote now they are or become the champions of pukhtun and what a democratic way to introduce new name under His majesty 10% which I think every civilized person including yourself should be ashamed off.
Mr Malakand don’t forget what they have done to you people it was just last year, millions of people were displaced from Buner, Swat, Shangla and Malakand and hundereds of innocent were killed and do you no why? I don’t want to go into the details as you know better then me.
Don’t worry about hazara its not an ANP game any more there are some other stakeholder as well and let see what will happen next. Any way may God bless you and every other brother and give us courage and wisdom to understand and accommodate each other. Ameen.

I think ANP wants to give Mardan to Hazara province and therefore there will be no province other than Hazara left.

[Shahzad]

Jahangiris are one of the leading Pathan clans of the Swati tribes of the Sarhad of Pakistan, mainly residing in the Hazara division of the districts of Batagram and Mansehra. The Jahangiris were well known as the Jahangiri chain of Sultans in the history of Pakistan and Afghanistan. According to Major Raverty, their kingdrom stretched from Jalalabad to Jehlum. At times, the Jahangiris even ruled over Kashmir. The last of the Jahangiri Sultans of Swat were Owais Jahnagiri and Mir Haider Ali Gebri of Bajaur, who were defeated by Babur and their allies in the late 15th century. The Pashtuns (also Pushtun, Pakhtun (Persian:پختوÙUrdu:پشت٠ˆÙ or Pathan) or ethnic Afghans[4] are an ethno-linguistic group living primarily in eastern and southern Afghanistan and in North West Frontier Province, Federally Administered Tribal Areas and Baluchistan provinces of Pakistan.... Swati is a famous Pashtun tribe that lives in District Battagram and Mansehra of North-West Frontier Province of Pakistan, a mountanious area that contains the famous historical places lika Pakhli, Agror, Allai, Thakot, Balakot and Black Mountain of Hazara.... The North-West Frontier Province (NWFP)-(also known as, Subha Sarhad)- is the smallest of the four provinces of Pakistan and is home to the Pashtuns (Afghans) and various other groups.... The Hazara are an ethnic group who reside mainly in the central Afghanistan mountain region called Hazarajat or Hazaristan.... Batagram district is located in NWFP, Pakistan.... Mansehra is city located in Mansehra District.... Jalalabad (Persian: JalÄ�lÄ�bÄ�d, 34°31′N 70°31′E) is the capital of Nangarhar province in Afghanistan, 150 km east of Kabul near the Khyber Pass and west of the Kunar River.... Jehlum (Urdu:جÛ�لم) river flows from its source in Himalayan mountains in Kashmir to Indus river in Punjab, Pakistan.... Shown in green is the Kashmiri region under Pakistani control.... Wiktionary has related dictionary definitions, such as: swat Swat or SWAT may refer to: Swat (Pakistan), the valley, district or town in the basin of the Swat River Swat River, a river in northern Pakistan State of Swat, a princely state which existed in the north of the modern North... Bajaur is a district of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas of Pakistan.... Zahiruddin Babur, or Zahir-ud-din Mohammad Babur (February 14, 1483 – December 26, 1530)(Persian:ظﮩیر also spelled ) was the Muslim Emperor who founded the Mughal dynasty of India....

Some famous subsections of the Jahangiris are Adlai, Akhun khel, Aspi khel, Ali khel, Hassani, Manshahi, Khabardin khel, Hassab din khel, Esap ali khel, Barkhan khel and Khazan khel or Khazani. Pashto, Hindko and in some places Dari is spoken in the tribe. Khazan khel also Khazani is a clan of the Swati division of NWFP,Pakistan....

Categories: Pashtun tribes

[Malakand]

The question is terratorial integrity of Pakhtunkhwa. We don't care what Hazarawal(who are Pakhtun) think, it's the question of our land and people. It's there problem that they screwed up and forgot their language. We are justified to make sure that territorial integrity stays intact.

[Shahida khan UK]

@Malakand
Haripur,Mansehra and Abbottabad names are part of history and history can not be changed.
Naswarkhwah is not part of history. this area was joined to NWFP in 1901,when names is changed everything goes back to 1901, so Hazara is not part of NWFP anymore.
LONG LIVE HAZARA PROVINCE

[GlobeSon]

Shahida khan UK wrote:

@Malakand
Haripur,Mansehra and Abbottabad names are part of history and history can not be changed.
Naswarkhwah is not part of history. this area was joined to NWFP in 1901,when names is changed everything goes back to 1901, so Hazara is not part of NWFP anymore.
LONG LIVE HAZARA PROVINCE

long live Hazara province. I agree
the pashtoons need a land of their own

the pashtoons have a great history, but unfortunately have been dominated by porkis panjabis in the recent past.

[Adam]

Every Pashtoon (including myself) should be happy to have Hazara province. This way we Pukhtoons will have 2 provinces (Hazara province and Pukhtoon Khwa province). The term territorial integrity is generally used for a country. We should protect territorial integrity of Pakistan. Within country the units that make the country could be increased or decreased depending on ease of administring them and the will of the electroate living in each unit. I do not think anybody can force people from Hazara to stay with Pukhtoon Khwa. A refrendum on this issue in Hazara will solve the problem.

[Adam]

Shahida khan UK wrote:

@Malakand
Haripur,Mansehra and Abbottabad names are part of history and history can not be changed.
Naswarkhwah is not part of history. this area was joined to NWFP in 1901,when names is changed everything goes back to 1901, so Hazara is not part of NWFP anymore.
LONG LIVE HAZARA PROVINCE

who= "Adam NY"]@Shahida Khan UK
That is excellent logic. May be the lawyers in Pakistan who are opposed to name change should bring this argument before the supreme court while the 18th amendment is being challenged in the supreme court.

[RK Golra]

If we look at India map there are thosands of places name after muslims in india e.g., Ahmedabad,hyderabad,akbarabad, fatehpur, murshidabad and so on, the reason for not changing these names on bothside was linked to agreement between india and Pakistan back in 1947 that both countries should respect the historical and cultural heritage of different places unless it need to be changed constitutionally or for some legal reasons. Therefore logic behind not changing places name in hazara e.g., haripur is self explanatory, however the whole area is still referred as hazara for centuries.

We should all respect each other regardless of nationalities or language, Pukhtuns are our brothers and we are all living together for centuries.Please respect and try not to offend each other for some thing which is not in our control.

[RK Golra]

@ shahzad,

your post i think was not properly pasted above and contents were copied again from wikipedia, just to remind you wiki info is debatable and not authentic as there are dozens of books by different authors (british,pathan and local writers) are available explaining different origins for tribes in hazara including swati.

[Malakand]

Adam wrote:

Every Pashtoon (including myself) should be happy to have Hazara province. This way we Pukhtoons will have 2 provinces (Hazara province and Pukhtoon Khwa province).

We pakhtun are already divided into many units: Pakhtunkhwa, Baluchistan, FATA, PATA, Mianwali and Attock winth in Pakistan. We should work hard to integrate all these units into one Pakhtunkhwa just like punjabis, sindhis and Baluch live in one unit. We should not allow anyone to divide us further.

[Adam]

Malakand wrote:

<quoted text>
We pakhtun are already divided into many units: Pakhtunkhwa, Baluchistan, FATA, PATA, Mianwali and Attock winth in Pakistan. We should work hard to integrate all these units into one Pakhtunkhwa just like punjabis, sindhis and Baluch live in one unit. We should not allow anyone to divide us further.

whod="Adam"]<quot ed text>:
Probably we should also include eastern part of Afghanistan which is also called western Pukhtoon Belt. It will be nice if all of them are united together. As far as Hazara province is concerned, the people on the other side of the debate do not think Hazara is part of Pukhtoonkhwa. I really meant "if Hazara province came into existence" then pukhtoon can consider Hazara and Pukhtoonkhwa as 2 provinces of theirs. There could be different ways to unite all pukhtoon units (PATA, FATA, Pukhtoon from Baluchistan and Afghanistan etc) and it will be noble cause to do so. I think people from Hazara will ultimately decide their destiny and we all will have to accept it whether we agree or not.

[M Khan]

Mrs Shahid wrote:

As a Pakistani and aware of the current situation today, I think this is no time to think of getting united as Pukhtoon or Mansehrawal or Punjabis. I feel this is the time to unite as Pakistanis to save our country from all the anti forces ( both internal and external). I have seen living in the country that when a bomb blast occur it does not recognise us as Pukhtoon or Mansehrawals. It treat us as Pakistani. If a drone is sent, the purpose is not to target Pukhtoon or Mansehrawal. It is just looking for Pakistanis. If the poor Government policies are affecting us adverseley, if the poor are made to die of hunger it is the same for all pukhtoons and Mansehra wals. I don't understand when will we stop blaming each other and getting involve in petty issues. If we think of Pakistan as a home we won't indulge in such issues. Have you ever question any of your siblings why has he eaten a bit more then you?? I myself feel happy if I can give my part of the food to any of my siblings.<quoted text>

if hazara people are not Pakhtuns and does not want to live with pakhtoons than why to compel them . we wanted Bengalis to live with us by force , it only resulted in a historical humiliating defeat , in which 95000 army men surrounded to the Indian High command.Heaven will not fall if you have more provinces . I would suggest that Punj-ab presently DU-AB having two rivers, should also be divided into Administrative provinces . Similarly D I Khan city only should become part of Sarike Soba, through Darya Khan Bridge as rest of the district including Parova, Pahar pur, Kulachi,Tank are Pakhtun dominated area.People of all provinces have different culture, social set up yet Mrs Shahid call them as one Nation.I would like to refesh her memory about the defination of a Nation as following
"A nation is a body of people who share a real or imagined common history, culture, language or ethnic origin....
Do Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi, Hazarvis, Muhajirs and Pakhtoons have the same history, culture, language or ethnic origin....and qualify the above stated definition , I leave it to Mrs Shahid to Think impartially and comment upon it .

[Malakand]

Adam wrote:

<quoted text>whod="Adam"] <quoted text>:
Probably we should also include eastern part of Afghanistan which is also called western Pukhtoon Belt. It will be nice if all of them are united together. As far as Hazara province is concerned, the people on the other side of the debate do not think Hazara is part of Pukhtoonkhwa. I really meant "if Hazara province came into existence" then pukhtoon can consider Hazara and Pukhtoonkhwa as 2 provinces of theirs. There could be different ways to unite all pukhtoon units (PATA, FATA, Pukhtoon from Baluchistan and Afghanistan etc) and it will be noble cause to do so. I think people from Hazara will ultimately decide their destiny and we all will have to accept it whether we agree or not.

Why do you bring Afghanistan into discussion, Pakistan is being trying to do that for the last 40 years and it is not working, all this blood shed of Afghan and Pakhtun is happening because of this policy. So lets only worry about inside Pakistan.

All I said was that other ethnicities of Pakistan live in one unit like Punjab, Sindh and Baluchistan,so all Pashtun regions should be united into one unit as well including Hazara.

[Adam]

M Khan wrote:

<quoted text>
if hazara people are not Pakhtuns and does not want to live with pakhtoons than why to compel them . we wanted Bengalis to live with us by force , it only resulted in a historical humiliating defeat , in which 95000 army men surrounded to the Indian High command.Heaven will not fall if you have more provinces . I would suggest that Punj-ab presently DU-AB having two rivers, should also be divided into Administrative provinces . Similarly D I Khan city only should become part of Sarike Soba, through Darya Khan Bridge as rest of the district including Parova, Pahar pur, Kulachi,Tank are Pakhtun dominated area.People of all provinces have different culture, social set up yet Mrs Shahid call them as one Nation.I would like to refesh her memory about the defination of a Nation as following
"A nation is a body of people who share a real or imagined common history, culture, language or ethnic origin....
Do Punjabi, Sindhi, Baluchi, Hazarvis, Muhajirs and Pakhtoons have the same history, culture, language or ethnic origin....and qualify the above stated definition , I leave it to Mrs Shahid to Think impartially and comment upon it .

who="Adam"]<quote d text>
I totally agree that making more than 4 provinces should be made easy because the provinces are simply administrative units and not nations. Some participants in this discussion consider a province a "nation". In reality we have only one nation which is pakistani. The common denominator for Pakistani nation is Islam "their religion". Anywhere in Paksitan if significant number of electorate want a province and the area and population is reasonably large then refrendum should be held there and if it passes, the province in that area should be formed. At this time there is demand for 3 provinces in Punjab, 2 in Sindh, 2 in Baluchistan and 2 in Pukhtoonkhwa. The size of Hazara is almost equal to the state of Israel and therefrore their damand for a province is reasonable.

[M Khan]

Adam wrote:

<quoted text>who="Adam"] <quoted text>
I totally agree that making more than 4 provinces should be made easy because the provinces are simply administrative units and not nations. Some participants in this discussion consider a province a "nation". In reality we have only one nation which is pakistani. The common denominator for Pakistani nation is Islam "their religion". Anywhere in Paksitan if significant number of electorate want a province and the area and population is reasonably large then refrendum should be held there and if it passes, the province in that area should be formed. At this time there is demand for 3 provinces in Punjab, 2 in Sindh, 2 in Baluchistan and 2 in Pukhtoonkhwa. The size of Hazara is almost equal to the state of Israel and therefrore their damand for a province is reasonable.

Let me correct it.Nations can not be constructed on the foundation of Religion.We confuse things.Religion has nothing to do with creation of Nation,rather Religion is a very weak base for constructing a Nation.If Religion was a reason for a Nation than today whole of the Europe would have been one Nation instead of French, English , Italian Greek German, as they belong to one Religion.Today I may be Pakistani being a Muslim but if tomorrow I convert I won"t be Pakistani.There is always a Kalma to change Religion,But there is no Kalma to Change Tribe/Nation.Nation and Religion are two different things.

[zahid jan]

I don't know how this page let people like rk gora or by name shahid khan abuse my nation and my homeland.

[RK Golra]

zahid jan wrote:

I don't know how this page let people like rk gora or by name shahid khan abuse my nation and my homeland.

@ zahid jan

Who are you, could you please elaborate further about your nation and homeland and comments you think abusive.Thanks

[Adam]

M Khan wrote:

<quoted text>
Let me correct it.Nations can not be constructed on the foundation of Religion.We confuse things.Religion has nothing to do with creation of Nation,rather Religion is a very weak base for constructing a Nation.If Religion was a reason for a Nation than today whole of the Europe would have been one Nation instead of French, English , Italian Greek German, as they belong to one Religion.Today I may be Pakistani being a Muslim but if tomorrow I convert I won"t be Pakistani.There is always a Kalma to change Religion,But there is no Kalma to Change Tribe/Nation.Nation and Religion are two different things.

who="Adam"]<quote d text>
I thought Pakistan was separated from India because Quaid -e- Azam wanted a home land for Muslims which resulted the largest human migration in hostory. This means that a homeland was created for those who believed in Islam and "Islam became a common denominator for Pakistani nation". probably some people at that time also might have thought that Islam was a weak link to build a nation and among them probably included the great scholars like Abul Kalam Azad and Abul Al Modoodi and the great peace activisit Bacha Khan who opposed the creation of a separate nation. The argument that a nation should not be based on religion is reasonable. The religion has separated East Punjab from West Punjab, however, separating Western Pukhtoon Belt in Afghansitan from eastern Pukhtoon belt in paksitan and separating Baluchistan in pakistan from Baluchistan in Iran are not understandable but is a reality.

[Adam]

I think R.K.Golra is very courteous, respectful of others and great contributor in this discussion. He respects all sub nationalities under Pakistani nation. I am pasting his comments in quotes as follows for everyone to read: "We should all respect each other regardless of nationalities or language, Pukhtuns are our brothers and we are all living together for centuries.Please respect and try not to offend each other for some thing which is not in our control". We should do a little reading before accusing some one.