The real Hazara problem

May 5, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The News

Thursday, May 06, 2010 Kashif Jahangiri The grievances of those living in Hazara division, the Hazarewals, are not over the name Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa, since a large population of Hazara is of Pakhtun origin, myself included.

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RK Golra

Glenrothes, UK

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#1
May 7, 2010
 

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I disagree with your article kashif, firstly you mentioned hazarawal identity issue as a major problem for people of hazara while on the other hand you are in favor of pukhtunkhwa as being or claiming yourself as pukhtun. If you look at census reports or any historical authentic books on hazara, non pukhtun makes 75% 0f hazara population. The only Pure pukhtun belt (according to attock par writers) is kaladhaka and tribes like Tareen,Jadun,Utmanzai,Tahirkhe li in rest of the hazara (10%). All other tribes are either non pukhtun or allied to pukhtun not in blood but in custom and culture ( e.g., swati of mansehra and batagram). No pukhtun (attock par) consider the whole hazara belt as pure race therefore people of hazara must unite under hazarawal umbrella to achieve identity goal not on ethnic or language basis but on culture of their own distinct from punjabi or pukhtun.
Bashir Khan

Dunshaughlin, Ireland

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#2
May 7, 2010
 
@RK Golra, that is incorrect what you have written. I have interest in history and can say that most people in Hazara are of Pukhtun origin. They do not need certification from anyone about who their ancestors were. For your information, Swatis are also Pukhtun ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swati_ (tribe)).Their ancestors had moved from Buner (near Swat) to fight against the Sikh rule in Hazara. You should read history and independent account of Henry George Raverty (1825-1906) who was a British Indian Army officer and linguist. He served from 1843 to 1864. He wrote quite a few books on Pukhtuns including on the grammar of pashto and also a dictionary of pashto. Lastly, what non-sense is this "attock par"?
RK Golra

UK

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#3
May 8, 2010
 
Bashir Khan wrote:
@RK Golra, that is incorrect what you have written. I have interest in history and can say that most people in Hazara are of Pukhtun origin. They do not need certification from anyone about who their ancestors were. For your information, Swatis are also Pukhtun ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swati_ (tribe)).Their ancestors had moved from Buner (near Swat) to fight against the Sikh rule in Hazara. You should read history and independent account of Henry George Raverty (1825-1906) who was a British Indian Army officer and linguist. He served from 1843 to 1864. He wrote quite a few books on Pukhtuns including on the grammar of pashto and also a dictionary of pashto. Lastly, what non-sense is this "attock par"?
Bashir i again disagree with your history or references, i am not certifying any body ancestory or roots, my post was in response to Kashif article in news and he used attock par which in hazara means people on other side of attock bridge (probably yourself).The writer you mention is disputed for his hatered against non pukhtun. I never rely on wikipedia info as it is again not authenticated and this is a proven fact. I am from hazara and i know each and every tribe including there origin.I can number each tribe %age population for your info(Jadun 3%, Abbassi 5%, Karral 3%, Gujar 30%, Awan 25%, Tanoli 18%,swati5% and other 5%includes Sarrara, Syed, Qureshi,utmanzai,Ghakar Tahirkheli etc. You can confirm these figures from Old british Gazatteers compiled for hazara district or NWFP and from latest Govt distrit census reports for hazara region. Sardar Mushtaq (Gujar) MNA haripur, Mehtab and Murtaza Abbassi MNA abbotabad (both Dhund Abbassi), Sardar Shahjahan MNA (Gujar)and Laiq khan (swati) Mansehra. I don't like discussion on ethnic basis but facts are fact. Regardless of their origin all these tribes are living together for the last 300 years.

Swati never faught with Sikh, they arrived in Pakhli plain under syed Jalal baba and took areas they now hold from Muslim Turks (who were ruler of hazara at that time) in early 17th century. Sultan Mehmood Turk was Syed Jalal baba father in law whom he betrayed.However according to most of the pathan writer yosufzai outsted Swati from buner and swat and they follow Syed Jalal baba for his campaign against Turk.

So please don't rely on wikipedia,i am more than happy to answer if you need any more info regarding hazara.

I 100% agree with only Puktunkhawa as identity for pukhtuns but for people of hazara i think Pukhtun brother must regard their just demand for seperate province.
Adam

New York, NY

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#4
May 8, 2010
 

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The debate over differnt tribes in Hazara is interesting and I am sure there are many tribes among Pashto speaking people in Charsada, Mardan, Peshawar, Bannu (for example: Yusufzai, Khattak, Marwat etc.). People from Hazara want a province because it is on the northeastern part of former NWFP, is not located in the middle, and therefore can be easily separated into a province. I do not think the Pashto speaking people from other side of Attock are interested to rule over the people of Hazara.
Bashir Khan

Ireland

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#5
May 11, 2010
 

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@RK Golra
If I am not wrong, The term "Swati" is a reference to various tribes living in Swat and adjacent areas (mainly Buner). Swati itself is not a tribe. Swatis include Pukhtuns as well as non-Pukhtuns. The major Pukhtun tribes in Swatis were: Akhunkhel, Allaiwal, Khankhel, Jahangiri, Lughmani, Madakhel, Musakhel, Jilikhel. The non-Pukhtun tribes were: Sayyad, Tanoli, Gakhar, Awan. Swatis were indeed pushed across by Yousafzais but they did liberate the piece of land now termed as Hazara.

I certainly don't know if their is any evidence that H.G. Raverty carried hatred against non-Pukhtuns. However, your assertion is self-conflicting. If Mr. Raverty loved Pukhtuns and hated non-Pukhtuns, why on earth he would describe a non-Pukhtun as a Pukhtun?

I am neither for nor against the province of Hazara. However, I feel the Pukhtun people of Hazara should know about their roots and receive their true identity as Pukhtuns.
RK Golra

UK

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#6
May 12, 2010
 

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Bashir Khan wrote:
@RK Golra
If I am not wrong, The term "Swati" is a reference to various tribes living in Swat and adjacent areas (mainly Buner). Swati itself is not a tribe. Swatis include Pukhtuns as well as non-Pukhtuns. The major Pukhtun tribes in Swatis were: Akhunkhel, Allaiwal, Khankhel, Jahangiri, Lughmani, Madakhel, Musakhel, Jilikhel. The non-Pukhtun tribes were: Sayyad, Tanoli, Gakhar, Awan. Swatis were indeed pushed across by Yousafzais but they did liberate the piece of land now termed as Hazara.
I certainly don't know if their is any evidence that H.G. Raverty carried hatred against non-Pukhtuns. However, your assertion is self-conflicting. If Mr. Raverty loved Pukhtuns and hated non-Pukhtuns, why on earth he would describe a non-Pukhtun as a Pukhtun?
I am neither for nor against the province of Hazara. However, I feel the Pukhtun people of Hazara should know about their roots and receive their true identity as Pukhtuns.
@Bashir khan,

I think every body know there roots and origin, rather then relying on western historians or local biased writers, best thing is to listen to the local voices, culture or traditions. As ethnicity or anthropology is a difficult subject and every writer interprets according to his choice therefore conflict of opinion occurs or happen. Hazara ethnicity is a bit mixed and heterogeneous and as diverse as different tribes or nations. As I mentioned in my previous post tribes like Tareen, Jadun, Tahirkheli, Utmanzai, kaladhaka tribes (Akazai, hassanzai, chigharzai,) are all without any shadow of doubt pure pukhtun by origin and blood. However for rest of Hazara tribes which forms bulk of the population the tendency of pukhtun, arab or mughal ancestory and origin is wide spread and is very doubtful as most of the historians or writers have conflicting views for them. For example Mishwani of Sirikot in Haripur Hazara are by language and custom pushtun but they themselves claim to be descended from a Syed father by a kakar woman (Pir Sabir shah ex chief minister family) therefore it is not easy to differentiate pure pukhtun or allied to pukhtun in custom and tradition.

By looking at your previous posts if I am not wrong your opinion about swati tribe is now self conflicting too and yes it is true swati tribe is hetrogenous mixture of many tribes anyway I have further added some info in brackets against your info. The major Pukhtun tribes in Swatis were: Akhunkhel (Gujar origin), Allaiwal (swati ), Khankhel (qureshi origin), Jahangiri (Tajik origin), Lughmani (Swati), Madakhel (Isazai origin kaladhaka), Musakhel, Jilikhel. The non-Pukhtun tribes were: Sayyad (claim arab origin), Tanoli (claim mughal and pukhtun origin), Gakhar (claim Iranian origin), Awan (claims arab origin). Swatis were indeed pushed across by Yousafzais but they did liberate the piece of land now termed as Hazara (any liberation date like American war of independence date).

For your information the Great Swati tribe is divided into Gebri of Utli (Upper pakhali tract) and Mamiali- Mitrawi of tarli (lower pakhali tract of Mansehra). They are further subdivided into Sarkhaili, Baigal, Dudal, Panjghol, panjmiral, khankhel, Arghshal malkal, Iznali mandral, Alisheri, jalangial, ransial etc. Gebri are jehangirian sultans and probably claim Tajik descend. Mitrawi reckon themselves to be descended from the yosufzais and mamiali considered themselves of Durani or other origin. These divisions are distributed all over Mansehra, Battagram and eastern slopes of kaldhaka (Most of my college, university friends and relatives are from above mentioned divisions).

There are few other western writers for your reference like Denzil Ibbetson (punjab castes) and Olaf Caroe (The pathans). These two wrote some stuff on history and origin of Hazara tribes in their respective books which I think will further help you in understanding Hazara ethnicity and culture.
zeeshan tanoli

Karachi, Pakistan

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#7
May 15, 2010
 

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hazary wal and his hazara is great .i want my hazara.and i apeal every body hazary wal to send your comment for soba hazara and save your hazara.i not want pakhtun in my hazara.pakhtun is loss nation.
Bengal_Tiger

Bristol, UK

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#8
May 15, 2010
 

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You do not want Pakhtuns in your Hazara?

1. So Pakhtuns should be banned from parts of their "own" country, Pakistan?

No Pakhtuns in a specific part of Pakistan?

I thought Pakistanis were all brothers and were living in peace and it was just RAW/CIA/MOSSAD propaganda when people said Balochis, Sindhis and Pakhtuns were being oppressed and not everything was fine in the "land of the pure".

2. When you call for Pakhtuns not to be in Hazara, no Punjabi calls you a RAW agent, because your call is fine as you are a Hindko-speaking Punjabi (Hindko is a dialect of Punjabi).

However if a Pakhtun, Sindhi or Balochi calls for his rights he is immediately a "RAW" agent.

3. You are insulting Pakhtuns and I have seen many of you Hazaras insulting Pakhtuns on different forums, but I will say one thing, I am not even a Pakhtun but Pakhtuns are a GREAT NATION and we regard them as "THE TRUE DEFENDERS OF ISLAM" e.g. when the Muslims of India invited Ahmed Shah Abdali to protect Muslims in India, the same Abdali which a Pakistani nuclear missile is named after!

ZINDABAD ISLAM!
ZINDABAD PAKHTUNKHWA!
RK Golra

UK

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#9
May 15, 2010
 
Bengal_Tiger wrote:
You do not want Pakhtuns in your Hazara?
1. So Pakhtuns should be banned from parts of their "own" country, Pakistan?
No Pakhtuns in a specific part of Pakistan?
I thought Pakistanis were all brothers and were living in peace and it was just RAW/CIA/MOSSAD propaganda when people said Balochis, Sindhis and Pakhtuns were being oppressed and not everything was fine in the "land of the pure".
2. When you call for Pakhtuns not to be in Hazara, no Punjabi calls you a RAW agent, because your call is fine as you are a Hindko-speaking Punjabi (Hindko is a dialect of Punjabi).
However if a Pakhtun, Sindhi or Balochi calls for his rights he is immediately a "RAW" agent.
3. You are insulting Pakhtuns and I have seen many of you Hazaras insulting Pakhtuns on different forums, but I will say one thing, I am not even a Pakhtun but Pakhtuns are a GREAT NATION and we regard them as "THE TRUE DEFENDERS OF ISLAM" e.g. when the Muslims of India invited Ahmed Shah Abdali to protect Muslims in India, the same Abdali which a Pakistani nuclear missile is named after!
ZINDABAD ISLAM!
ZINDABAD PAKHTUNKHWA!
@bengal_Tiger
I agree with you, Pukhtun is a great nation and i must also say every other ethnicity or nation living in Pakistan are great.
Pukhtuns are scattered all over hazara and are represented at every forum in hazara society. Majority of them are now leading compaign for seperate hazara province along with other tribes and nations of hazara.
In hazara case i don't think its language or ethnicity behind demand for seperate province,firstly it is the deprivition which they (people of hazara) have suffered in the hand of corrupt politicians of their own and also corrupt bureaucracy and politicians based in peshawar and islamabad. Secondly it's the culture of hazara which is distinct from punjab and puktunkhwa culture.. Finally another major factor is the way the new name is imposed on people of NWFP under the umbrella of Mr 10%.
Islam negates any distinction among people on the basis of race. As nationalism in contemperory history divide muslims into sixty different nation. So my brother first we should all think where we are now, nearly at the verge of collapse.
All of our national issues are either politicised or mishandle by just 1% ruling elites,corrupt politician, feudals, corrupt beuracracy whether military or civil and to whom we the masses keep on electing,selecting i am afraid for another century.
Hazara movement is not linked to any political party it is the movements of 4.5 million people of hazara (pukhtun and non pukhtun) and donít judge it solely on ethnic or racial basis. The unrest in Hazara is the product of a complex and longstanding issues of administrative, political and social issues. I think It is unlikely to disappear from the horizon of regional and provincial politics for a long time.
Abdali is named to counter indian pirthivi etc another stunt by corrupt military for fooling innocent people on both side.Don't forget true freedom fighters like Tipu Sultan shaheed, Syed Ahmed Shaheed, Sirajudaulah shaheed and unnamed million of martyered who sacrifice their lives for islam and Pakistan.
Zindabad Pakistan
Zindabad Islam
Mrs Shahid

Dundee, UK

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#10
May 17, 2010
 

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As a Pakistani and aware of the current situation today, I think this is no time to think of getting united as Pukhtoon or Mansehrawal or Punjabis. I feel this is the time to unite as Pakistanis to save our country from all the anti forces ( both internal and external). I have seen living in the country that when a bomb blast occur it does not recognise us as Pukhtoon or Mansehrawals. It treat us as Pakistani. If a drone is sent, the purpose is not to target Pukhtoon or Mansehrawal. It is just looking for Pakistanis. If the poor Government policies are affecting us adverseley, if the poor are made to die of hunger it is the same for all pukhtoons and Mansehra wals. I don't understand when will we stop blaming each other and getting involve in petty issues. If we think of Pakistan as a home we won't indulge in such issues. Have you ever question any of your siblings why has he eaten a bit more then you?? I myself feel happy if I can give my part of the food to any of my siblings.
RK Golra wrote:
I disagree with your article kashif, firstly you mentioned hazarawal identity issue as a major problem for people of hazara while on the other hand you are in favor of pukhtunkhwa as being or claiming yourself as pukhtun. If you look at census reports or any historical authentic books on hazara, non pukhtun makes 75% 0f hazara population. The only Pure pukhtun belt (according to attock par writers) is kaladhaka and tribes like Tareen,Jadun,Utmanzai,Tahirkhe li in rest of the hazara (10%). All other tribes are either non pukhtun or allied to pukhtun not in blood but in custom and culture ( e.g., swati of mansehra and batagram). No pukhtun (attock par) consider the whole hazara belt as pure race therefore people of hazara must unite under hazarawal umbrella to achieve identity goal not on ethnic or language basis but on culture of their own distinct from punjabi or pukhtun.
RK Golra

UK

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#12
May 17, 2010
 
Mrs Shahid wrote:
As a Pakistani and aware of the current situation today, I think this is no time to think of getting united as Pukhtoon or Mansehrawal or Punjabis. I feel this is the time to unite as Pakistanis to save our country from all the anti forces ( both internal and external). I have seen living in the country that when a bomb blast occur it does not recognise us as Pukhtoon or Mansehrawals. It treat us as Pakistani. If a drone is sent, the purpose is not to target Pukhtoon or Mansehrawal. It is just looking for Pakistanis. If the poor Government policies are affecting us adverseley, if the poor are made to die of hunger it is the same for all pukhtoons and Mansehra wals. I don't understand when will we stop blaming each other and getting involve in petty issues. If we think of Pakistan as a home we won't indulge in such issues. Have you ever question any of your siblings why has he eaten a bit more then you?? I myself feel happy if I can give my part of the food to any of my siblings.<quoted text>
@Mrs Shahid

The topic of discussion here is about hazara problem and threads are in response to Mr Kashif article in the newspaper about real hazara problem dated May 6, 2010. I think every body being Pakistani think about Pakistan welfare, peace and prosperity first. After killing ten innocent people in hazara do you still think its not an issue or Pakistan problem or we are waiting for some other neighbor country to resolve it .For every problem there is a solution whether it is regional, political, national the only thing we need is honest, courageous, fair and God fearing leadership at every strata of our society which unfortunately we are lacking for the last sixty three years as a nation collectively.

Hazara sacrifice for the creation of Pakistan (NWFP) is on record and donít try to underestimate their patriotism. Any way thanks for inventing new terminology (Mansehrawal) which further shows how much up to date you are regarding Hazara issue.
Adam

New York, NY

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#13
May 17, 2010
 

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Making Hazara district does not mean going against Pashtoons or going against existence of Paksitan. Creating Hazara province in fact will make Paksitan stronger. Fighting over the name of the province might be a non significant issue but creating Hazara province is a major issue and an issue of people from Hazara (both Hindko and Pashto speaking). There was a movement to create Hazara province prior to renaming NWFP. Renaming in fact kindled that feeling of creating Hazara province and convinced the people from Hazara that they must have their own province.
Adam

New York, NY

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#14
May 17, 2010
 
In the first sentence I meant "making Hazara province"
Malakand

Vista, CA

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#15
May 18, 2010
 

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Here is the solution to the Hazara problem:

- Create Abaseen Division consist of Kohistan, Batagram and Mansehra.

- Merge Haripur and Abbotabad with Mardan Division.

This will eliminate the very insulting name Hazara(Hazara mean IDless people in Pashto) from the map of Pakhtunkhwa.
Adam

New York, NY

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#16
May 18, 2010
 
I agree that there should be 2 divisions (or more) in Hazara province. Abaseen division and the other divison which will include Haripur, Abbotabad, and Mardan. Both divisions will make Hazara province bigger. There are also proposals to Make Malakand divison and Siraiky divisions as prvinces. I do not think any Pukhtoon hates any body from Hazara and vice versa. People from Hazara and the Pashto speaking people from other side of Attock are brothers and muslims and there is no conflict among people. They get along fine.
Malakand

San Diego, CA

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#17
May 18, 2010
 
There ain't going to be Hazara province my friend. First Punjab has to be divided into many provinces and Punjabis certainly don't want that. so there is no justification for Hazara province. My advice to you guys is to stop dreaming and get real. Most Hazarawal are Pakhtuns so it will remain part of Paktunkhwa whether some Hazarawal like it not.
RK Golra

UK

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#18
May 19, 2010
 
Malakand wrote:
Here is the solution to the Hazara problem:
- Create Abaseen Division consist of Kohistan, Batagram and Mansehra.
- Merge Haripur and Abbotabad with Mardan Division.
This will eliminate the very insulting name Hazara(Hazara mean IDless people in Pashto) from the map of Pakhtunkhwa.
@ Malakand,

For your information if you exclude non pushto speaking belts Chitral, DI Khan and Hazara from Khwamukhwa (I mean for some writer itís difficult to pronounce Ö.) the remaining area or enclave left should be declared as Mardan province. As ANP strong hold is mardan, swabi, charsadda and to some extent Peshawar and also they represent 11% of the polled vote now they are or become the champions of pukhtun and what a democratic way to introduce new name under His majesty 10% which I think every civilized person including yourself should be ashamed off.

Mr Malakand donít forget what they have done to you people it was just last year, millions of people were displaced from Buner, Swat, Shangla and Malakand and hundereds of innocent were killed and do you no why? I donít want to go into the details as you know better then me.

Donít worry about hazara its not an ANP game any more there are some other stakeholder as well and let see what will happen next. Any way may God bless you and every other brother and give us courage and wisdom to understand and accommodate each other. Ameen.
Adam

New York, NY

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#19
May 19, 2010
 

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I have a lot of Pashto speaking friends in Charsada, Mardan and other districts and have also lived in Peshawar several years. They are very hospitable and dedicated Muslims. The people from Hazara province are equally nice, hospitable, educated and dedicated muslims. I do not think making Hazara province will harm any Pashto speaking brother from other side of Attok. Similarly the name Khyber Pukhton Khwa (KPK) does not bother anybody from Hazara province provided this name is limitted to the regions of Pahsto speaking people on the other side of Attok. Many Pashtoons from Hazara province (including myself) are suppoting Hazara provicne because having Abbotabad its capital, it will be easy to get things done.
Shahida khan UK

London, UK

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#20
May 19, 2010
 

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Hazara Province is a reality wether anyone like it or not.
Our population is bigger than gilgit and biltistan.
Our population is bigger than Balochistan too.How can anyne impose their name on us???
80% resources of NWFP are generated from Hazara.
Pashtoon is a nation who has earned name for the best terrorist in the world.
thats why Gordan brown said"pashtoon are terrorist"
I am from tanoli tribe and have many ralatives in upper tanawal kala dhaka.These people are hindko speaking not pashtoon.Habib tanoli is from kala dhaka and is campaining for Hazara Province too.
No matter what tribes and languages we are one on Hazara province movement.
Hazara was joined to NWFP in 1901, we need to separate it from NWFP now.
NASWARKHWA is flourishing on our resources.
Malakand

Vista, CA

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#21
May 19, 2010
 

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What I am pissed off of is because Hazarawal are comfortable with the name Haripur, Mansehra and abbotabad all named after Kafirs but they are not comfortable with Pakhtunkhwa, name after their own muslim pakhtun brothers.

An to Golra: ANP gave a big favor to the people of Malakand by rooting out Taliban once and for all from Malakand Division.

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