Maybe One of the Biggest Blunders in Armenian History

[Fair Dinkum]

Dardanelli wrote:

<quoted text>
You are totally wrong. This is not about Luck.
Between 1300s and 1900 s, we were sitting on the most valuable lands of earth. Silk road, petrol lands, holy lands etc. And all imperailist countries like England, France, Russia and today USA mostly played against us to own our lands and its benefits. Inciting, provokating minorities were a great tool for these axx holes.
If we were been on other lands, they wouldn't be in need of this provocations, wars etc. But in that case, even current 19 countries will not recognise your fake genocide
story as they do not be in need to hit Turkey's head with a so called genocide stick which they love to use it today!
And even your government will not invest on this lie. They would already have been accepted their ancestors mostly escaped other countries like USA, France, Engalnd , Russia and current mainland.

GIVE IT UP, YOU IDIOT

Jump your denialist sinking ship before its too late.

I started a nice new thread for d/heads like you. Enjoy it.

[Dardanelli]

The Alana Kalana Project wrote:

<quoted text>
First off brain drain, you were never sitting, more like sqautting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatters
And the ones whom cared most about retrieving those lands back were the rightful owners, but massacres,and death marches insured very few were remaining would be alive to retrieve anything..
Now, do you get how intent supports Genocide? Simply logic really.

Rightful owners ? if you mean armenians , you have to know that you never owned these lands , you ve always been the ones that lived under the mercy of others, the real owners!

And Turks are the one and only owner of these lands since 1071!!

[vatchakan]

Dardanelli wrote:

<quoted text>
Rightful owners ? if you mean armenians , you have to know that you never owned these lands , you ve always been the ones that lived under the mercy of others, the real owners!
And Turks are the one and only owner of these lands since 1071!!

You never realized you were sharing it with millions of Christians who throughout the empire contributed richly and with intelligence to the well being of said Empire. Then as the Empire collapsed, the ignorant fools like yourself became terrified and murdered all the Christians in order to be the sole owners, of something that their fathers had shared for 600 years with the natives of the land. You have no idea how right wing you sound, but in a world where cruelty and murder are facts of life, no integrity can exist. That is why I do not expect you to be integral in your views, this is because you have no integrity, because you justify the murder of millions to give meaning to your soulless arguments!!

[Dardanelli]

vatchakan wrote:

<quoted text>You never realized you were sharing it with millions of Christians who throughout the empire contributed richly and with intelligence to the well being of said Empire. Then as the Empire collapsed, the ignorant fools like yourself became terrified and murdered all the Christians in order to be the sole owners, of something that their fathers had shared for 600 years with the natives of the land. You have no idea how right wing you sound, but in a world where cruelty and murder are facts of life, no integrity can exist. That is why I do not expect you to be integral in your views, this is because you have no integrity, because you justify the murder of millions to give meaning to your soulless arguments!!

The fools like yourself should not forget this empire were not accused for erasing christians bw 1300-1900s!

Ottoman lost balcanians and other major lands in the early 1900s , so the number of christians decreased dramatically as we lost these lands. You all do not like to consider even this obvious reason.

Your ancestors, mostly escaped to current ww1 winners',diaspora lands and to your mainland, the country which Russia gave you as a gift of your ancestors' betrayal. And it is quite strange that Turks' population were like %55 of Yerevan and your mainland while armenians were around %45 . And there is not a single Turk living in armenia today!! That is much more strange than anything , isnt it ?

On the other hand, unfortunately we exchange citizens with Greeks, which is very sad.

Since the establisment of Ottoman Empire, till ww1, we kept christians in our structure. Orthodox Patriarch lived in istanbul with peace for hundreds of years with grand vizier rights!

So if we ever had a policy of "erasing christians" , you all could not see even 1500s not 2009s!!

[Fair Dinkum]

Dardanelli wrote:

<quoted text>
The fools like yourself should not forget this empire were not accused for erasing christians bw 1300-1900s!
Ottoman lost balcanians and other major lands in the early 1900s , so the number of christians decreased dramatically as we lost these lands. You all do not like to consider even this obvious reason.
Your ancestors, mostly escaped to current ww1 winners',diaspora lands and to your mainland, the country which Russia gave you as a gift of your ancestors' betrayal. And it is quite strange that Turks' population were like %55 of Yerevan and your mainland while armenians were around %45 . And there is not a single Turk living in armenia today!! That is much more strange than anything , isnt it ?
On the other hand, unfortunately we exchange citizens with Greeks, which is very sad.
Since the establisment of Ottoman Empire, till ww1, we kept christians in our structure. Orthodox Patriarch lived in istanbul with peace for hundreds of years with grand vizier rights!
So if we ever had a policy of "erasing christians" , you all could not see even 1500s not 2009s!!

"History" acording to turkish books. After all, the world historians can learn something every day from turks like you.

[Samoxin]

Sahakian wrote:

<quoted text>
another useless article

sahakyan! mi stapi!

[Samoxin]

Serkan wrote:

Let me comfort Armenians about Kars treaty.
1) Whether or not there will be "genocide" recognition by Turkey, Turkey will not give away even a pebble to Armenia. So, a military confrontation is necessary. And noone else will do the dirty job for Armenians. So, you got to take land from Turkey using military means.
2) Whenever, if ever, you rely on your guts to take land from Turkey, then you may clearyly find some excuses for your military attack. International community will not buy it (nothing to do with protocols) but convincing Armenian citizenry should not be that difficult.
So, Kars treaty recognition/non-recognition has no meaning. Absolutely meaningless!! You can wait anouther century, or even a millenia but in the end you will have to take land on the ground.
If you cannot follow my argument, you have a stone in your head rather than brain cells, and you will keep uttering to Sarkissian for giving away land to Turkey.
As for Turkey needing the border being opened as much as, and possibly more than, Armenia. Just amazing :P

why you are rushing! we w`ill take it by military means. Rome was built not in one day.

[Samoxin]

Sahakian wrote:

<quoted text>
useless because article basically saying lets go another 100 yrs as victim nation as though AG has become the standard to what it means to be Armenian.
He downplays the economical aspects of border opening potential and ignorant the fact that hundreds of our women are in prostitution just to survive.
AG is a tragedy and it should not be used as a stick and carrot game and it should not be a foreign policy pillar.Finally someone like Sargisian understood that and this is the guy who fought in NK!!
Are you suggesting that we should all be single minded sheep?and if thinking different then I should not be Armenian?What is patriotism!Blind nationalism or genuine concern for the country.

What is the economical gain, plz in detail?

[vahe]

Tsukiahi wrote:

Turkey is very lucky because of its location, that is the only ACE that they have and they know it very well.
and it is called GEOPOLITICS. if Turkey was not where it is right now trust me they would of recognized the GENOCIDE long time ago, and just like Germany they would of come up with MULAAAAAAAAAAAAHS
starting from England,USA, and others who only care for their own freaking benefits, they been yanking our chain left and right all this time.
you compering us with Jews like we play the victim 24/7 oh really
when was the last time you turned on your TV,Radio,or any other media stuff and you have heard that Armenians are playing victim,
you are confusing us with Jews, they are the one's who play victim
24/7 up to a point that it is sickening.
<quoted text>

Exactly. United States preach others about humanity & doing the right thing but when it comes to the Armenian massacre, she look the other way. As for England, forget about it, it's a huge mess in every level. Soon Muslims will be in full control of that anti Christ island!

[Tsukiahi]

Vahe jan,
sadly England was build on Genocide ing other nations, like
India, Africa, Iran, Egypt,Spain and so many other large and small countries.
All those grave robbers that we hear from Egypt that have robbed the tomes of Kings and all, where British themselves, all those pirates that we have seen or heard where
British wearing pirates clothing and rubbing Spaniard chips for
gold coins and jewelries.

USA, Russia, France,Germany all of them have black history, the one good thing about it they have written about them in history books.and they are teaching them in schools,starting elementary till way in Universities, and as far as Empires in East goes they also have a black history, we know some of the history and some are lost or kept in secrets, for the obvious reasons.

the only ones who have lost so much was, are, and it will continue to be the general public.

unfortunately every country is looking for their own benefit and their own pockets, if and when it suits them they will recognize and except the historical facts and the truth.

this is nothing new we all know very well how politics works, not only in here all over the world.

vahe wrote:

<quoted text>
Exactly. United States preach others about humanity & doing the right thing but when it comes to the Armenian massacre, she look the other way. As for England, forget about it, it's a huge mess in every level. Soon Muslims will be in full control of that anti Christ island!

[Samoxin]

Tsukiahi wrote:

Vahe jan,
sadly England was build on Genocide ing other nations, like
India, Africa, Iran, Egypt,Spain and so many other large and small countries.
All those grave robbers that we hear from Egypt that have robbed the tomes of Kings and all, where British themselves, all those pirates that we have seen or heard where
British wearing pirates clothing and rubbing Spaniard chips for
gold coins and jewelries.
USA, Russia, France,Germany all of them have black history, the one good thing about it they have written about them in history books.and they are teaching them in schools,starting elementary till way in Universities, and as far as Empires in East goes they also have a black history, we know some of the history and some are lost or kept in secrets, for the obvious reasons.
the only ones who have lost so much was, are, and it will continue to be the general public.
unfortunately every country is looking for their own benefit and their own pockets, if and when it suits them they will recognize and except the historical facts and the truth.
this is nothing new we all know very well how politics works, not only in here all over the world.
<quoted text>

I agree w/ u.
And I'm adding...
The British kingdom house must be destroyed as Russian tsar family was destroyed. They rub and still their wealth from everyone from almost every corner of the world and legitimize them so, now they can live as parasites...by the way what I said is impossible even after acknowledgment of entire British public because .... The world power still has enormous number of buttons on British Quinn’s hand...sad but true.

[Tsukiahi]

I am positive that all of us have heard this very famous phrase

SUN WILL NEVER SET ON BRITISH EMPIRE.

I always had this fascination with Brit's so i have read everything there was written about them.

Look what Queen Elizabeth the first done to her own cousin, Queen Mary Stewart of Scotland and France.

she was a physo,and i do not blame her, she had no choice to marry to CHURCH, to her country.

Look how Elizabeth first came to power. and there are many many
other travesty and tragedy's.

Samoxin wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree w/ u.
And I'm adding...
The British kingdom house must be destroyed as Russian tsar family was destroyed. They rub and still their wealth from everyone from almost every corner of the world and legitimize them so, now they can live as parasites...by the way what I said is impossible even after acknowledgment of entire British public because .... The world power still has enormous number of buttons on British Quinn’s hand...sad but true.

[Sahakian]

Samoxin wrote:

<quoted text>
What is the economical gain, plz in detail?

LOl why don't you ask what's the economical gain doing business with Canada or Mexico? Biggest country neighboring Armenia which has direct connection to EU and middle east.
Problem with us that we are stuck in 1915!(at least diaspora Armenians)but the world is going pass by and we are staying still and going nowhere or going back to 1915!When someone has the guts to make a decision in the right direction then "we" want to bury them-perennial victims who can't shake 1915 off.
We are stupid and I mean this sincerely!We let a tragedy define an ethnic identity which we can't shake off...

[Sahakian]

Samoxin wrote:

<quoted text>
What is the economical gain, plz in detail?

# Apart from other expected economic benefits the opening of the Armenian-Turkish border (which could happen as early as at the end of this year) also promises a boost to the local tourism market due to an expected increase in the number of both incoming and outgoing tourists. Specialists in tourism in both Armenia and Turkey say they expect progress in the industry if the border is opened. Head of the Tourism Department at Armenia's Ministry of Economy Mekhak Apresyan says many specialists estimate that the scarcity of [international] roads is a major impediment to the development of tourism in Armenia. "There aren't too many tourists coming to Armenia via Georgian or Iranian land routes, and when they travel by air the cost of their travel goes up," Apresyan tells ArmeniaNow. "The opening of the border will have an essential impact on the development of tourism in Armenia." According to Apresyan, in that case tourists from many European countries will use Turkey as a land connection to come to Armenia and Turkey thus will also expand as a tourist market. Deputy Minister of Culture and Tourism of Turkey Ismet Yilmaz echoes his Armenian colleague's optimism. He is convinced that if the border is opened, many tourists who visit Turkey, one of the world's most popular travel destinations, will also want to go to Armenia. "More than 26 million tourists visited Turkey in 2008, which makes Turkey the third most popular tourist country in the world. If the border is opened, many of these 26 million tourists could also go to Armenia for a couple of days," says Yilmaz. In recent years Armenia has also seen an increase in the number of visitors. According to official statistics, the number of international tourists annually visiting Armenia has increased 11 times in the period 2000-2008 - from 45,000 tourists to 558,000. Even in conditions of the economic crisis, the number of tourists visiting Armenia during the first six months of this year increased by 250 people (or 0.1 percent) compared to the same period of 2008. Travel agencies and tour operators also expect positive developments in the event of the opening of the border with Turkey. A David Tour company manager says that even their company that sells only air tickets expects positive changes. And director of Levon Travel Anahit Papazyan first of all expects an increase in tourist visits to "Western Armenia" (historical Armenian territories in modern Turkey where a considerable number of Armenian historical and cultural landmarks are still preserved). "We don't have a problem in organizing joint tours with Turkish companies even now, but the opening of the border will boost these processes," says Papazyan. The Tourism Department's Apresyan agrees that it will become easier to set up tours to Western Armenia especially for Diaspora Armenians visiting their historical homeland as tourists. Ashot Soghomonyan, director of the Narekavank company that organizes tours to Western Armenia, says positive changes are inevitable if the border is opened. "Other, new companies will join us in this sphere. There will be the need for these companies, since there are many people who have dreamed about an open border, because they would not go to Western Armenia by the road through Georgia that they think is bad and long," Soghomonyan tells ArmeniaNow. "Fear and suspicion toward Turkey will gradually disappear and the number of those wishing to visit will increase."
# Sara Khojoyan

[Dander]

Sahak
1-TR attracts tourist with Everything included cheap as chips packages.
and this tourist hardly spends an axtra penny outside this package.
This can not benefit Armenia one iota.
2- without historical reconciliation a joint tourism effort would have no base to build on.
3- Georgia is the prime example of this rhetorics.
I think you have a false sense of optimism about this turkish show designed to please certain power centres.

[Samoxin]

Sahakian wrote:

<quoted text>
LOl why don't you ask what's the economical gain doing business with Canada or Mexico? Biggest country neighboring Armenia which has direct connection to EU and middle east.
Problem with us that we are stuck in 1915!(at least diaspora Armenians)but the world is going pass by and we are staying still and going nowhere or going back to 1915!When someone has the guts to make a decision in the right direction then "we" want to bury them-perennial victims who can't shake 1915 off.
We are stupid and I mean this sincerely!We let a tragedy define an ethnic identity which we can't shake off...

Difference between Armenia - Canada/Mexico and Armenia - Turkey is that turkey is our biological enemy and they will pursue to destroy Armenia in all means; economically and demographically. It will cost 2% of Turkey's GDP to kill Armenia's already handicapped economy in few years; Say, turkey can subsidize all agricultural exports to Armenia in 80% and make Armenian countrymen jobless in next 2 years. Can Armenia stand to this scale economical intervention? Of course NO. People, who think like you, they think with their bats. It will not be hard for turkey to bribe people like you to pass number of favorable laws to buyout the total real estate in Armenia and businesses. They will pay 10 times more to buyout everything. Who will stop poor Armenian retailer not to cell his/her business to flee from the country? You? Just look who are in Armenia’s parliament today? dumpass illiterate gangs who are there to get immunity for their gang activities. If there are few good once they do not make the majority believe me (drank yeghanak chen steghtsum). In one word: vor vorrov es m@rtcum turki het? There are few families in Armenia who will be benefiting from opened borders who will monopolize the trade between the two countries and take their last chance before they will escape to Europe for better life. I already know one guy who told me his adventures (kayfer@) with his Turkish partners in Aegean islands who were giving him number of million $$$ goods (nisya) to sell in Armenia during late 90s and early 2000. Now he is in parliament and one of this so called Sargisyan’s supporters. I’ll have more time in few days and I’ll tell a real story in detail about one family who does business from Armenia to Russia/USA/EU. For now thin k about what I said above…

[Samoxin]

Sahakian wrote:

<quoted text>
# Apart from other expected economic benefits the opening of the Armenian-Turkish border (which could happen as early as at the end of this year) also promises a boost to the local tourism market due to an expected increase in the number of both incoming and outgoing tourists. Specialists in tourism in both Armenia and Turkey say they expect progress in the industry if the border is opened. Head of the Tourism Department at Armenia's Ministry of Economy Mekhak Apresyan says many specialists estimate that the scarcity of [international] roads is a major impediment to the development of tourism in Armenia. "There aren't too many tourists coming to Armenia via Georgian or Iranian land routes, and when they travel by air the cost of their travel goes up," Apresyan tells ArmeniaNow. "The opening of the border will have an ...bla-bla-bla bad and long," Soghomonyan tells ArmeniaNow. "Fear and suspicion toward Turkey will gradually disappear and the number of those wishing to visit will increase."
# Sara Khojoyan

I read that article some time ago and you intentionally dropped some parts of it. Most of Armenia's tourists are Armenians living abroad and 2nd, Armenia does not have developed tourism infrastructure to hold even 1% of those 26mln tourists coming to turkey. And the 3rd, looking to your argument one can think that Armenia is a tourism destination #1 in the world and that only turkey-Armenia border is what harming this business and that business is what makes the Armenia’s 90% of the GDP.

[Samoxin]

you personally need that business with turks. you may learn what is the meaning of the word tasib from them...at the last

[Dardanelli]

Samoxin wrote:

<quoted text>
Difference between Armenia - Canada/Mexico and Armenia - Turkey is that turkey is our biological enemy and they will pursue to destroy Armenia in all means; economically and demographically. It will cost 2% of Turkey's GDP to kill Armenia's already handicapped economy in few years; Say, turkey can subsidize all agricultural exports to Armenia in 80% and make Armenian countrymen jobless in next 2 years. Can Armenia stand to this scale economical intervention? Of course NO. People, who think like you, they think with their bats. It will not be hard for turkey to bribe people like you to pass number of favorable laws to buyout the total real estate in Armenia and businesses. They will pay 10 times more to buyout everything. Who will stop poor Armenian retailer not to cell his/her business to flee from the country? You? Just look who are in Armenia’s parliament today? dumpass illiterate gangs who are there to get immunity for their gang activities. If there are few good once they do not make the majority believe me (drank yeghanak chen steghtsum). In one word: vor vorrov es m@rtcum turki het? There are few families in Armenia who will be benefiting from opened borders who will monopolize the trade between the two countries and take their last chance before they will escape to Europe for better life. I already know one guy who told me his adventures (kayfer@) with his Turkish partners in Aegean islands who were giving him number of million $$$ goods (nisya) to sell in Armenia during late 90s and early 2000. Now he is in parliament and one of this so called Sargisyan’s supporters. I’ll have more time in few days and I’ll tell a real story in detail about one family who does business from Armenia to Russia/USA/EU. For now thin k about what I said above…

hehehe yes, our most important issue is surely Armenia and its huge possible contributions to our economy!!:-):-)

Sam, move your ass to Armenia and join the protests not to open border!! Go on man, keep the doors closed !!