Maybe One of the Biggest Blunders in Armenian History

[Tsukiahi]

http://www.asbarez.com/2009/10/30/maybe-one-o...

[Sahakian]

Tsukiahi wrote:

http://www.asbarez.com/2009/10 /30/maybe-one-of-the-biggest-b lunders-in-armenian-history/

another useless article

[Fair Dinkum]

Sahakian wrote:

<quoted text>
another useless article

How so? Please enlighten us.

[Dardanelli]

Fair Dinkum wrote:

<quoted text>
How so? Please enlighten us.

Firstly, if you able to move out your heads from the mud you all stucked in, you can understand that you do not have a single option to reject Kars treaty.

Kars treaty is not a lie or a computer game, it is a reality , a treaty with Russia. You cant do anything against a treatment that Turkey and Russia officially agreed, signed. We all know that the reason for you are having a "mainland" today is Russia , they let you own your current mainland while having %50 Turk and %50 armenian population at the begining of 1900s!! And nobody knows where the hell they are right now!!

2nd, neither Armenia, nor Turkey have any other option than signing this protocol. Other options were all against USA 's Caucasian and Middle East master plan. And even EU support this protocol due to Nabucco project. This project will help them to escape Russia's threat. And they are all surely pressing on your government on " Denying Genocide" Card to make your government to sike sike (This ia a Turkish word means f..king but explains much better how you have no other option than signing this f.king protocol)sign this protocol.

I do not know how they make us sign this prot. but probably for more money. And we all know that our current akp members would easily sell even their mothers for money!

With that situation lets see what will happen :

1. USA controls caucasia and energy path much more than before

2. After some time , Iraq will also be a supplier for this natural pipeline and making more $$$ for USA and Brit companies to re-finance their costs in invading iraq!!

3. This will eliminate and isolate iran from the world much more than ever before.(But we are currently trying to break this)

4. EU is very happy to have a gas supplier other than Russia.

5. USA needs to secure all these pipelines' after ending their costy operations in iraq by 2010. That is why they put pressure on terorists, pkk to leave north irag region and dissolve as well as Turkey-armenia conflict. They force Turkey to make this funny "Kurt acilimi" , "Ermeni Acilimi" under democracy package!!

6. Obama play on his voters "Look, as I promised we withdraw from iraq, getting economy much better (with the help of gas floating from iraq to EU), make armenia-Turkey relations better"

So, they surely do not care your f..king genocide story.

To open border, probably stop your continous population loss, our 800 billion $ GDP will surely help much more to your 9 billion $ economy while we gonna have nothing from your side!

And USA played "Denying Card" to make you sign this protocol and you sike sike signed it.

"Do not recognise Kars treaty, recognise AG , bla bla" story that has no value in todays' politics.

Did you enlighten enough ?

[The Alana Kalana Project]

Fair Dinkum wrote:

<quoted text>
How so? Please enlighten us.

I will enlighten you, since there is a high probability he has not the ping pongs to do so himself.

It is now more than obvious he only attacks harshly the Armenian female posters that do not support his ridiculous flip flopping views regarding the recognition of the AG, this is easily noted by just by his avoidence to address the male ones completely.

Since the author of this article clearly supports my view he naturally is against it of course, he even will call it useless, disregarding the fact the author has upteen years more of education, and expertize in this specific field then he obviously does.

On that note, I must also bring to your attention the fact that when one so easily exempts any people not just the Turks from recognizing a genocide, whether it be the Armenian genocide or not they most likely will excuse all genocides this same outcome, so this particular poster fools no one, his view can not be isolated, or exclusive to just the AG, not when it comes to a massive loss of life, and it must be perceived as a view that he pertains to all genocides in general.

armajarhead is also willing to sit down and dispute the Holocaust's validity, I ask you who in their right mind supports that? Clearly sahakian and his dingbat ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

[vatchakan]

Dardanelli wrote:

<quoted text>
Firstly, if you able to move out your heads from the mud you all stucked in, you can understand that you do not have a single option to reject Kars treaty.
Kars treaty is not a lie or a computer game, it is a reality , a treaty with Russia. You cant do anything against a treatment that Turkey and Russia officially agreed, signed. We all know that the reason for you are having a "mainland" today is Russia , they let you own your current mainland while having %50 Turk and %50 armenian population at the begining of 1900s!! And nobody knows where the hell they are right now!!
2nd, neither Armenia, nor Turkey have any other option than signing this protocol. Other options were all against USA 's Caucasian and Middle East master plan. And even EU support this protocol due to Nabucco project. This project will help them to escape Russia's threat. And they are all surely pressing on your government on " Denying Genocide" Card to make your government to sike sike (This ia a Turkish word means f..king but explains much better how you have no other option than signing this f.king protocol)sign this protocol.
I do not know how they make us sign this prot. but probably for more money. And we all know that our current akp members would easily sell even their mothers for money!
With that situation lets see what will happen :
1. USA controls caucasia and energy path much more than before
2. After some time , Iraq will also be a supplier for this natural pipeline and making more $$$ for USA and Brit companies to re-finance their costs in invading iraq!!
3. This will eliminate and isolate iran from the world much more than ever before.(But we are currently trying to break this)
4. EU is very happy to have a gas supplier other than Russia.
5. USA needs to secure all these pipelines' after ending their costy operations in iraq by 2010. That is why they put pressure on terorists, pkk to leave north irag region and dissolve as well as Turkey-armenia conflict. They force Turkey to make this funny "Kurt acilimi" , "Ermeni Acilimi" under democracy package!!
6. Obama play on his voters "Look, as I promised we withdraw from iraq, getting economy much better (with the help of gas floating from iraq to EU), make armenia-Turkey relations better"
So, they surely do not care your f..king genocide story.
To open border, probably stop your continous population loss, our 800 billion $ GDP will surely help much more to your 9 billion $ economy while we gonna have nothing from your side!
And USA played "Denying Card" to make you sign this protocol and you sike sike signed it.
"Do not recognise Kars treaty, recognise AG , bla bla" story that has no value in todays' politics.
Did you enlighten enough ?

I guess you have your phantasies. No point in waking you up.

[Sahakian]

Fair Dinkum wrote:

<quoted text>
How so? Please enlighten us.

not going to write down every time why need to progress from point A to B requires decisions which are not easy to make.
It is my personal firm understanding that Armenian nation must move on beyond AG and its hindrance to regional development.
Being Armenian is greater then a tragedy but this concept is lost on most Armenians.

[Sahakian]

The Alana Kalana Project wrote:

<quoted text>
I will enlighten you, since there is a high probability he has not the ping pongs to do so himself.
It is now more than obvious he only attacks harshly the Armenian female posters that do not support his ridiculous flip flopping views regarding the recognition of the AG, this is easily noted by just by his avoidence to address the male ones completely.
Since the author of this article clearly supports my view he naturally is against it of course, he even will call it useless, disregarding the fact the author has upteen years more of education, and expertize in this specific field then he obviously does.
On that note, I must also bring to your attention the fact that when one so easily exempts any people not just the Turks from recognizing a genocide, whether it be the Armenian genocide or not they most likely will excuse all genocides this same outcome, so this particular poster fools no one, his view can not be isolated, or exclusive to just the AG, not when it comes to a massive loss of life, and it must be perceived as a view that he pertains to all genocides in general.
armajarhead is also willing to sit down and dispute the Holocaust's validity, I ask you who in their right mind supports that? Clearly sahakian and his dingbat ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

I suggest you stop characterizing me with your irrelevant pointless personal comments.
Just get it through your head that other people have different opinions.Agree to disagree (it is a simple concept)

[The Alana Kalana Project]

It is just so incredibly ruthless for one to insinuate an Armenians personal individuality is hindered by their pursuit for total recognition for the innocence who lost their lives as a result of a failed humanity..

How does constanly seeking ways to pacify ones own ignorances, be considered any sort of progress?

How can anyone not conceive that moving beyond the AG means all people have to truly acknowledge it first?

Being Armenian and being proud of that fact could never begin with being such a coward, not standing up for your own people, and not remembering what they endured certainly will not make economic development in the region prosper, only a fool with no greater concept other than his own selfish interest could perceive that it could.

Its quite obvious both concepts can be achieved, and believing strongly in they can are what Armenians are really made of.

Imagine thinking gaining any sort of advancement economically can be attained by the cost of human suffering, no wonder there are genocides still occurring...

Sadly, today I have to witness this kind of tragedy in the ideals coming from some of my very own people.

[Serkan]

Let me comfort Armenians about Kars treaty.

1) Whether or not there will be "genocide" recognition by Turkey, Turkey will not give away even a pebble to Armenia. So, a military confrontation is necessary. And noone else will do the dirty job for Armenians. So, you got to take land from Turkey using military means.

2) Whenever, if ever, you rely on your guts to take land from Turkey, then you may clearyly find some excuses for your military attack. International community will not buy it (nothing to do with protocols) but convincing Armenian citizenry should not be that difficult.

So, Kars treaty recognition/non-recognition has no meaning. Absolutely meaningless!! You can wait anouther century, or even a millenia but in the end you will have to take land on the ground.

If you cannot follow my argument, you have a stone in your head rather than brain cells, and you will keep uttering to Sarkissian for giving away land to Turkey.

As for Turkey needing the border being opened as much as, and possibly more than, Armenia. Just amazing :P

[The Alana Kalana Project]

Sahakian wrote:

<quoted text>
I suggest you stop characterizing me with your irrelevant pointless personal comments.
Just get it through your head that other people have different opinions.Agree to disagree (it is a simple concept)

Don't ever dare to challenge me on my abilities to judge your character, thats a road you can not survive on, you are terribly weak minded and you lack humanity, and courage in my eyes, it is as simply as that, I only judge you on that...

That is nothing we can agree to disagree on, as a matter of fact I find it some sort of sick joke that you can suggest such a thing.

Are you so totally that illiterate that you can not see allowing the avoidance to recognize a genocide is no different than actually believing one had even occurred?

Yea, yea whatever, just keep going along trying to diminish or disguise this inhumane point view of yours as just any mere opinion that one should just accept as just being one, because unfortunatly not all people are totally aware of just how little the worth of the real in value a view like yours has in the world today, which is exactly what you want right, an easy way out?

[Tsukiahi]

strange enough it is your useless ideas which agrees with Turks
every time.

we wonder why????!!!!

another strange thing the one's who deny the Genocide are the one's who agreeing with you

we wonder how come ???!!!

Sahakian wrote:

<quoted text>
another useless article

[Serkan]

Tsukiahi wrote:

strange enough it is your useless ideas which agrees with Turks
every time.
we wonder why????!!!!
another strange thing the one's who deny the Genocide are the one's who agreeing with you
we wonder how come ???!!!
<quoted text>

Who are the Turks who recognize genocide and also support views of

--Armenian Diaspora in furthering a fight against Turkey for genocide recognition
--RA keeping its border marked off Turkey
--keeping NK as part of Armenian territory

Show me a Turk who does all this. I am looking for one!

You only interpret the kindful gestures by some Turks, who themselves have problems with Turkish government for one or another reason, as being advocates of you.

BASKIN ONAN: one of the leaders of the campaing of "I apologize from Armenians." He is disliked by easily over 90% of Turkish citizens including me. Yet, he was elected as a Turkish MP by PKK supporter Kurds.

His daughter, now in France and also a citizen of that country, was involved in politics. Under pressure of Armenians in France, he was given the choice of admitting "Armenian genocide" or leaving the party. And she left and she promised she will fight against the discrimination against Turks in France.

Markar Esayan: An Armenian citizen of Turkey, a journalist in Taraf, which is a newspaper well-known for being anti-Turkey in everything.

And even he says that Armenia should settle up its issues with Azerbaijan; Armenian occupation of Azerbaijan territories is unacceptable and not sustainable.

Don't count on your friends in Turkey too much! And don't misinterpret some humanitarian gestures of some Turks as indications of support for the Armenian cause.

The choice of Armenia is clear:

Either (pragmatic choice)

it will take its place in the international community as a respectable country, take its part in global competition in business/sport/democracy

OR ( melancholic and irrational choice)

it will stay as a tool of Armenian extremists who live in the past.

The latter choice, which is forced upon by Tashnaks and majority of Diaspora (whose Armenianness is almost exclusively about "Armenian Genocide"), will mean another 1 million reduction in RA's population in he next 10-15 years, and the those remaining keep living on stones, mountains, rivers and without any factories, exporters, importers, tourists.

[Sahakian]

The Alana Kalana Project wrote:

<quoted text>
Don't ever dare to challenge me on my abilities to judge your character,

You don't know crap about me or my character but then again you can't accept that other people have different point of view!
I rather not make this personal melodrama case as you would like.I have nothing to prove to idiots who can't accept ideas other then their own crap.

[Sahakian]

Tsukiahi wrote:

strange enough it is your useless ideas which agrees with Turks
every time.
we wonder why????!!!!
another strange thing the one's who deny the Genocide are the one's who agreeing with you
we wonder how come ???!!!
<quoted text>

useless because article basically saying lets go another 100 yrs as victim nation as though AG has become the standard to what it means to be Armenian.
He downplays the economical aspects of border opening potential and ignorant the fact that hundreds of our women are in prostitution just to survive.
AG is a tragedy and it should not be used as a stick and carrot game and it should not be a foreign policy pillar.Finally someone like Sargisian understood that and this is the guy who fought in NK!!
Are you suggesting that we should all be single minded sheep?and if thinking different then I should not be Armenian?What is patriotism!Blind nationalism or genuine concern for the country.

[Sahakian]

Tsukiahi wrote:

another strange thing the one's who deny the Genocide are the one's who agreeing with you

<quoted text>

If the conditions are more "user friendly" then those deniers may accept the fact of AG.
Here is news.Policies of last 90yrs has not worked so what makes you think it will next 90 yrs.

[Sahakian]

here is my post on comment section of that article

Sahakian says:
November 3, 2009 at 10:28 pm

DR. LEVON MARASHLIAN just writes the same old rhetoric that Armenian Genocide should shape our foreign policy or Armenian identity (diaspora etc.)
I am one of the few Armenians who thinks the protocols are correct approach. In Chinese philosophy branch that does not bend to wind breaks.
Its about time to facilitate new concepts and approaches since I rather not see my kids demonstrating in front of Turkish embassy and I don’t want their kids to do the same.
Being Armenian is greater then a tragedy but unfortunately most Armenians miss this critical point.

[The Alana Kalana Project]

Sahakian wrote:

<quoted text>
You don't know crap about me or my character but then again you can't accept that other people have different point of view!
I rather not make this personal melodrama case as you would like.I have nothing to prove to idiots who can't accept ideas other then their own crap.

I am not buying your BS sahakian, cause you know very well I know you don't have to prove a thing to me, but I do know it is your children who deserve more than BS, yea, you do owe them a little something more, cause do not even think for one moment that the day will not come when they will see you just as I do.

http://utpjournals.metapress.com/content/g614...

[Serkan]

Correction: Baskin Onan was not elected MP; he was a candidate though.

[Tsukiahi]

so in conclusion from your point of view lets forget that Genocide ever happen and Let bygones be bygones, and just allow a whole government not to take any responsibility for what they have done.

is that what you are saying

those Turkish or Armenian or what ever prostitute will conduct their business for matters of survival, whether those goof balls and so call caring politicians do the right thing or not.

"AG is a tragedy and it should not be used as a stick and carrot"

it is very kind of you to compare AG with carrot and stick, and
you claim to be an Armenian patriot, wow

your so call PATRIOT ACT is full of B.S.

really Sahakian bravo to you.

Sahakian wrote:

<quoted text>
useless because article basically saying lets go another 100 yrs as victim nation as though AG has become the standard to what it means to be Armenian.
He downplays the economical aspects of border opening potential and ignorant the fact that hundreds of our women are in prostitution just to survive.
AG is a tragedy and it should not be used as a stick and carrot game and it should not be a foreign policy pillar.Finally someone like Sargisian understood that and this is the guy who fought in NK!!
Are you suggesting that we should all be single minded sheep?and if thinking different then I should not be Armenian?What is patriotism!Blind nationalism or genuine concern for the country.