altin

Dublin, Ireland

#25 Jan 1, 2013
Filip II Reincarnated wrote:
"Albanians are not autochthonous people (on Balkan), and they are also not related in any way to the Pelasgians or the Illyrians. Understandably, not one of the professors in albanology has said this. They still continue with the tale that allegedly 'Albanians are autochthonous pelasgo-illyrian descendants'.
I discovered that by chance, studying the albanian language, which, all agree, is of the type SATEM. According to that global division of languages, researching the illyrian language I discovered that it is of the type KENTUM. The most elementary logic was saying to me that one SATEM language can not be a direct descendant, not even a kind of derivative of some KENTUM language, without a change of its substrate. Since the albanian language does not have any changes in its substrate, that means that the Albanians can’t be, under any circumstance, genealogical descendants of the Illyrians.
Later I discovered this, as well, in the works of the world renown professors and scholars Paul, Hirt, Vaigand, Tomashek, Georgiev, Puscariu and many others, who with numerous scholarly arguments, linguistic and historical, have proven that the Albanians not only do not have anything in common with the Illyrians, not only that they are not autochthonous at any place in the Balkan, but they are not even autochthonous in the territories of modern day Albania. Vaigand for example has formulated 12 arguments. To all of those I’ve added another five.
Unfortunately, these scientists are not being mentioned in (the study) Albanology, nor in Albania, nor are they mentioned in (Ex)Yugoslavia, or in Macedonia, because the albanian professors consciously hide the truth about the origins of the Albanians and, instead of it (the truth), to their pupils and students they serve up the lies about their autochthony and illyrian origin. Via those lies they poison the whole nation.
This is not done accidentally, but with the aim to incite the Albanians against the neighbouring nations, thus, hooking them on the “fishing line” of some invented, wide ethnic territories, to use them as cannon fodder for the interests of some criminalised leaders and the international Capital."
("The Albanian Racism Towards its Neighbours is Based on Historical Falsifications"- an Interview with the persecuted Albanian Academician Professor Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich.)
http://www.unitedmacedonians.org/macedonia/ka...
comon you are taking seriosly kaplan resuli which is only taken seriosly only in forym a person which is well known it doesnt base his work in scientific facts but in the bitternes in which everything is albanian it is based on lies, why doesnt the big profesor try to link slavo-macedonians with ancient one?? philip of stupidity you have more things to worry then albanian history you should try to understand that you are a never the les a bulgarian in languige and traditions i repeat a 'bulgarian'
altin

Dublin, Ireland

#26 Jan 1, 2013
Filip II Reincarnated wrote:
talkin to scientific work read dr noel malcom

Finally, before turning to the most mysterious problem of all - the origin of the Albanians - it is worth looking once more at the pattern of settlement in the Kosovo area during the early Slav centuries. Kosovo did not fall within the Serb territory of Rascia, which was further to the northwest: the Serbian expansion into Kosovo began in earnest only in the late twelfth century. About the other early Slav settlers in this part of the Balkans we have much less information. Byzantine sources just referred generally to 'Sklaviniai', Slav territories, in the Macedonian region; in the few cases when they made more localized references they often used names derived from rivers, so that it is not clear whether these were the names of Slav tribes or just geographical labels. The 'Moravoi' or 'Moravlians', for example, who are first mentioned in the ninth century, lived somewhere near the river Morava, but that is all we know about them. Historical map-makers, who do not like leaving too many blank spaces, place these Moravlians over much of southeastern Serbia from as early as the sixth century, with arrows showing them passing into Kosovo; real evidence for this is lacking.

Obviously some Slavs did spread through all these areas sooner or later. But there is one intriguing line of argument to suggest that the Slav presence in Kosovo and the southernmost part of the Morava valley may have been quite weak in the first one or two centuries of Slav settlement. If Slavs had been evenly spread across this part of the Balkans, it would be hard to explain why such a clear linguistic division emerged between the Serbo-Croat language and the Bulgarian-Macedonian one. The scholar who first developed this argument also noted that, in the area dividing the early Serbs from the Bulgarians, many Latin place-names survived long enough to be adapted eventually into Slav ones, from Naissus (Nish), down through the Kosovo town of Lypenion (Lipljan) to Scupi (Skopje): this contrasts strongly with most of northern Serbia, Bosnia and the Dalmatian hinterland, where the old town names were completely swept aside. His conclusion was that the Latin-speaking population, far from withering away immediately, may actually have been strengthened here (and in a western strip of modern Bulgaria), its numbers swelled, no doubt, by refugees from further north. These Latin-speakers would have thus formed 'a wide border-zone between the Bulgarians and the Serbs'.
altin

Dublin, Ireland

#27 Jan 1, 2013
Kosovo's protective ring of mountains would have been useful to them; and the Roman mountain-road from Kosovo to the Albanian coast - along which several Latin place-names also survive, such as Puka, from 'via publica'- might also have connected them with other parts of the Latin-speaking world.(The hill-top town of Koman, mentioned earlier, is only a few miles from Puka, and may well have had a Latin-speaking population too.) If this argument is correct, we might expect many of the ancestors of the Vlachs to have been present in the Kosovo region and the mountains of western Bulgaria; it may have been in these uplands that they developed their pastoral skills.

Only in the ninth century do we see the expansion of a strong Slav (or quasi-Slav) power into this region. Under a series of ambitious rulers, the Bulgarians - a Slav population which absorbed, linguistically and culturally, its ruling elite of Turkic Bulgars - pushed westwards across modern Macedonia and eastern Serbia, until by the 850s they had taken over Kosovo and were pressing on the borders of Rascia. Soon afterwards they took the western Macedonian town of Ohrid; having recently converted to Christianity, the Bulgar rulers helped to set up a bishopric in Ohrid, which thus became an important centre of Slav culture for the whole region. And at the same time the Bulgarians were pushing on into southern and central Albania, which became thoroughly settled by Bulgarian Slavs during the course of the following century.

Kosovo was to remain under Bulgarian or Macedonian rulers until 1014-18, when the army of the Macedonian-based Tsar Samuel died, his empire broke up, and Byzantine power was fully re-established by a strong and decisive Emperor, Basil 'the Bulgar-killer'. For nearly two centuries after that, Kosovo would stay under Byzantine rule.
altin

Dublin, Ireland

#28 Jan 1, 2013
One key element is missing from the picture presented so far. While the origins of the Vlachs are obscure enough, the origins of the Albanians have been the subject of a much more bewildering mass of conflicting claims and theories. The two main rival theories that have emerged identify the early Albanians as either Illyrians or Thracians: in pre-Roman and Roman times, Illyrians lived in the western half of the Balkans and Thracians in the east. Albanian historians, who like the idea that Albanians have always lived in Albania, prefer the Illyrian theory. Romanian scholars, who have to deal with the awkward fact that there are strong early links between the Albanians and the Vlachs, prefer to put them on the Thracian side of the divide (the ancient Dacians, who lived in Romania, were part of the Thracian group), and in this they are sometimes supported by Bulgarian experts. But there is really no point in going into this labyrinth of historical debate unless one is prepared to discard all national prejudices at the entrance.

The Albanians first emerge in the historical record in 1043, when Albanian troops appear fighting alongside Greeks in the army of a rebel Byzantine general. They are mentioned at Durres in 1078, and again in 1081, when they joined the Byzantine forces resisting an invasion there by the Norman adventurer Robert Guiscard.(Bizarrely, a garbled list of Albanian placenames, picked up by the Normans on this expedition, was soon afterwards incorporated into the Song of Roland: one manuscript of that poem includes a reference to 'Albanie', implying that it was a place or area just north-east of Durres.)

Over the next two centuries the references to Albanians gradually increase, until by 1281 we have a mention in an Italian document of a 'duca Ginius Tanuschus Albanensis', who ruled an area between Durres and Shkodra:'Ginius' must be the Albanian 'Gjin'(John), and this 'duca Gjin' is presumed to be the founder of the famous 'Dukagjin' family. By the early fourteenth century there are also signs of a long-established Albanian presence in the mountains of Montenegro, and as far north as the Ragusan hinterland.

The name used in all these references is, allowing for linguistic variations, the same:'Albanenses' or 'Arbanenses' in Latin,'Albanoi' or 'Arbanitai' in Byzantine Greek.(The last of these, with an internal switching of consonants, gave rise to the Turkish form 'Arnavud', from which 'Arnaut' was later derived.) Nor is there any mystery about the origin of this name. In the second century Ptolemy referred to a tribe called the 'Albanoi', and located their town,'Albanopolis', somewhere to the east of Durres. Some such place-name must have survived there, continuously if somewhat hazily, ever since; there was an area called 'Arbanon' in north-central Albania in the eleventh century, and in the early twentieth century 'Arben' was the local name for a region near Kruja (which lies just north of Tirana). Linguists believe that the 'Alb-' element comes from the Indo-European word for a type of mountainous terrain, from which the word 'Alps' is also derived.(So too, coincident-ally, is the Gaelic word for Scotland,'Albainn', which classicizing eighteenth-century Scots sometimes turned into 'Albania'.)
altin

Dublin, Ireland

#29 Jan 1, 2013
The continuity of this name is a striking fact; but it does not amount to proof that the Albanians have lived continuously in Albania. Place-names can endure while populations literally come and go. In any case, the Albanians do not use this word to describe themselves: in their language, Albania is Shqiperia, an Albanian is a shqiptar, and the language itself is shqip.(The only Albanians to use the 'Alb-' root are the ones who emigrated to Italy in the fifteenth century, who call themselves 'Arberesh'.) The origins of shqiptar, which first crops up as a personal name in late-fourteenth-century documents, are completely obscure: some think it means 'he who understands', from a verb shqipoj, while others connect it with the word for an eagle, shqipojne, which may have been the totem of an early tribe.

Is there any way to bridge the gap between the 'Albanoi' of the second century and the medieval Albanians? The historical record is utterly silent: there is one apparent reference in a medieval document to 'Duchagini d'Arbania' warring against a king of Bosnia in the seventh century, but it must be discounted, as the document's chronology is completely unreliable. For some scholars, the argument from silence carries a certain force of its own; it is suggested that any large-scale migration of the early Albanians into Albania would surely have been remarked on by Byzantine authors. But the truth is that those authors were interested in alien tribes only when their actions impinged, militarily or politically, on the Empire. A small pastoral population, moving away from them into some remote mountain region, might never have attracted their notice.

Some Albanian archeologists have tried hard to show that the Koman hill-town culture of the seventh and eighth centuries is the essential proof of Illyrian-Albanian continuity; but material remains do not tell us what language people spoke (unless they include inscriptions, which these do not), and the main cultural affinities here seem to have been with the Latin-speaking RomanoByzantine towns of the previous centuries. And one other line of argument, which tries to find striking similarities between Albanian social practices and what classical authors tell us about the Illyrians, must also be described as inconclusive. Certainly the tribes of the ancient Illyrians, political groupings covering large areas and heavily stratified with a powerful ruling caste, were quite different from the modern Albanian clans.

If there is any chance at all of solving this mystery, it lies in the study of the Albanian language. Historical linguistics is a complex science and not, in some of its activities, a very exact one. But by sifting through the evidence of vocabulary and place-names, and sorting out different layers of borrowings from other languages and cultures, linguists can often construct quite a detailed chronology, just like an archeologist examining different layers of wood-ash and broken pots. They can point out, for example, that the Albanian names for the fauna and flora of the high mountain regions are purely Albanian, while the low-altitude vocabulary borrows heavily from Slav; the words for ploughing are mainly Slav, and so are many words for weaving, masonry and milling. Much of the vocabulary of medieval government and society is also Slav-based. This strongly suggests that the early Albanians led a mainly pastoral life in mountainous regions, before settling in lowland areas after the Slavs had extended their culture and rule. And the evidence of place-names shows that Albanian-Slav contacts in the northern Albanian region must have happened before 900 at the latest: a vowel-shift in the Slav language took place by the end of the ninth century, and some Albanian borrowings from Slav preserve the pre-shift form of the vowel.
altin

Dublin, Ireland

#30 Jan 1, 2013
We have now got back to the ninth century, but that still leaves seven centuries unaccounted for. The most direct way of bridging the gap with the Roman world would be for the historical linguists to demonstrate a link between Albanian and one of the 'barbarian' Balkan languages of the region - either Illyrian or Thracian. It is clear that Albanian is indeed the only surviving representative (apart from Greek) of an ancient Balkan language: it belongs to the Indo-European family of languages, but exists in a sub-section of its own, with no immediate relatives. If either Illyrian or Thracian could be identified as its parent, this would at least set some fairly clear geographical limits to the early home of the Albanians: Illyrians lived in Albania and most of Yugoslavia, Thracians in Bulgaria and part of Macedonia, and the boundary between them ran approximately along the Morava valley and down the eastern side of Kosovo.(Kosovo itself was part of the tribal land of the Dardanians, who almost certainly belonged to the Illyrian grouping.)

Unfortunately, working out the relation between Albanian and Illyrian or Thracian is like trying to solve an equation with too many unknowns. We do not possess a single text in Illyrian. We have two short texts in what is presumed to be Thracian, but no one knows what they mean. The longer one, consisting of sixty-one Greek letters without any word-divisions, has been subjected to eighteen speculative and somewhat comically divergent translations: one version says 'I, Rolisteneas, son of Nereneas, eat the sacrificial meal; Tyiezypta, originally from Arazea, attached the golden objects to me', while another comes up with 'O Rolisten, I, Nerenea Tiltea, die peacefully next to you, my quietly deceased one, I who raised the children.' The linguists who have offered these translations from the Thracian have at least fared better than the one who interpreted an 'Illyrian' inscription as 'Consecrated to the goddess Oethe': it was later pointed out that this inscription, if read from bottom to top, produced a perfectly normal Greek phrase,'Lord help Anna'.

Apart from inscriptions, there are a few 'glosses'(comments explaining the meanings of words) in classical authors: here the evidence is too slight to be conclusive. One Illyrian word, rhinon, glossed as 'mist', does resemble an old Albanian word for cloud, ren. A Thracian word for a blackberry, mantia, resembles the Albanian for a mulberry, man, and the Thracian for 'camomile' could perhaps be linked to the Albanian for 'sweet-tasting'; but those are the only clear resemblances, and the names of edible plants are in any case famously mobile across linguistic frontiers.
altin

Dublin, Ireland

#31 Jan 1, 2013
Otherwise, the only evidence available consists of proper names: place-names, personal names and tribal names, preserved in Latin or Greek inscriptions and the works of ancient historians. There are several thousand such names altogether; but the difficulties of interpretation are immense. Trying to extract a language from such evidence is rather like some linguists of the distant future trying to work out the true nature of the English language on the basis of 'Edinburgh','Lancaster','Whitb y','Grosvenor','Gladstone','Vi ctoria' and 'Disraeli'. Place-names are often the remnants of an earlier language; personal names may reflect cultural influences (it has been observed that if future linguists knew only the names 'Carlo' and 'Lodovico', they would assume that the Italian language was a type of German); and in any case we have no reason to suppose that the ancient Balkans were any less of a linguistic hotchpotch than they have been for most of the rest of their history. On balance, there are more examples of plausible links between Illyrian names and Albanian words than there are in the case of Thracian (though there are some of both, and some names were common to the two ancient languages). Most of these relate to place-names in the area of central and northern Albania, such as the river Mat (Alb.: mat, riverbank) or the town of Ulqin or Ulcinium (Alb.: ujk or ulk, wolf), or indeed the early name for the Kosovo area,'Dardania'(Alb.: dardhe, pear).

The strongest evidence, however, comes not from the meaning of the proper names (which is always open to doubt) but from their structure. Most Illyrian names are composed of a single unit; many Thracian ones are made of two units joined together. Several Thracian place-names end in -para, for example, which is thought to mean 'ford', or -diza, which is thought to mean 'fortress'. Thus in the territory of the Bessi, a well-known Thracian tribe, we have the town of Bessapara,'ford of the Bessi'. The structure here is the same as in many European languages: thus the 'town of Peter' can be called Peterborough, Petrograd, Petersburg, Pierreville, and so on. But the crucial fact is that this structure is impossible in Albanian, which can only say 'Qytet i Pjetrit', not 'Pjeterqytet'. If para were the Albanian for 'ford', then the place-name would have to be 'Para e Besseve'; this might be reduced in time to something like 'Parabessa', but it could never become 'Bessapara'. And what is at stake here is not some superficial feature of the language, which might easily change over time, but a profound structural principle. This is one of the strongest available arguments to show that Albanian cannot have developed out of Thracian.

Other linguistic arguments which have been deployed in this Illyrian versus Thracian debate are more technical. Much ink has been spilt, for example, on the question of whether Illyrian was a satem language or a centum language. This is a traditional classification of all Indo-European languages according to their underlying patterns of consonant development.(The labels are taken from the Old Iranian and Latin for 'a hundred'.) Albanian is a satem language, and Thracian is thought to have been one too. Most scholars believed that Illyrian was a satem language, until linguists analysed the surviving inscriptions in Venetic, a language of north-eastern Italy which was assumed (on the authority of ancient authors) to be related to Illyrian. This turned out to be definitely centum, and persuaded some experts that the whole Illyrian group must therefore have been centum too - in which case Albanian could not have come from Illyrian. However, more recent research has shown that Venetic had nothing to do with Illyrian.(Similar problems caused by another language thought to be related to Illyrian, the Messapian language of southern Italy, have also been resolved in the same way.) Illyrian was probably satem after all.
altin

Dublin, Ireland

#32 Jan 1, 2013
And in any case, it is increasingly apparent that the whole satem/centum classification system does not correspond to the fundamental distinguishing features of the Indo-European languages: it may be the linguists' equivalent of one of those classifications of mammals by eighteenth- century biologists, which modern scientists have had to discard. Another technical (and much more speculative) argument for identifying early Albanian with Thracian was put forward by the Bulgarian linguist Georgiev, who divided Thracian into two languages, one north-western, the other south-eastern, and argued on the basis of consonantal changes that Albanian must have come from the north-western one. But his arguments (at least in relation to the supposed Albanian connection) have been thoroughly dismantled by other scholars.

Other linguistic arguments are more closely linked to geography. The place-names of the northern Albanian region offer a valuable linguistic testing-ground. We know what many of them were called in Roman times; it should therefore be possible to tell whether their modern Albanian form derives from a continuous Albanian tradition going back to contact with the Romans, or whether it is derived from the Slav form of the name. If the latter, then this might suggest that the Albanians entered this area only after the Slav immigration of the seventh century. The fact that Slavs developed their own forms of the urban names directly from the Latin (Skadar from Latin Scodra, for example, where the Albanian form developed as Shkoder/Shkodra) is not in itself significant; their contact in the urban areas would have been mainly with Latin-speakers anyway. But if, on the other hand, the Slav names for rivers or mountains show that they were borrowed from Albanian forms of those names, this would indicate that there were Albanian-speakers in the countryside when the Slavs first arrived.

The evidence is in fact very mixed; some of the Albanian forms (of both urban and rural names) suggest transmission via Slav, but others -including the towns of Shkodra, Drisht, Lezha, Shkup (Skopje) and perhaps Shtip (Stip, south-east of Skopje)- follow the pattern of continuous Albanian development from the Latin.(One common objection to this argument, claiming that 'sc-' in Latin should have turned into 'h-', not 'shk-' in Albanian, rests on a chronological error, and can be disregarded.) There are also some fairly convincing derivations of Slav names for rivers in northern Albania - particularly the Bojana (Alb.: Buena) and the Drim (Alb.: Drin) which suggest that the Slavs must have acquired their names from the Albanian forms.

Finally, one more common-sensical linguistic and geographical argument should also be mentioned: the claim, by the pioneering German Balkanologist Gustav Weigand, that the early Albanians must have lived a long way to the east of the Adriatic coast, because most of the Albanian words for fish, boats and coastal features are borrowed from other languages. Sterling efforts have been made by Albanian scholars to find authentic Albanian fish-words, but the tally, though not insignificant, is still rather poor. However, Weigand's argument could not be very powerful even if its basic observation were correct (as it may in fact be). A pastoral population might have lived only 50 miles inland in the Albanian mountains without having any contact with fishing or sailing; it is not necessary to push its location eastwards all the way to Thrace. Of course Illyrians did once live on the coast, and would presumably have had their own maritime vocabulary.
altin

Dublin, Ireland

#33 Jan 1, 2013
Of these, the only population considered important enough to be mentioned by name in early written sources was the Thracian tribe of the Bessi, who lived in the western and southern mountains of Bulgaria. We know that their version of the Thracian language was still being spoken in the second half of the sixth century, and we also know that they had been converted to Christianity: the most striking piece of evidence refers to monks speaking 'Bessan', as well as Latin and other languages, in a monastery on Mount Sinai in the 560s. Until very recently, this was treated by most scholars as just an intriguing oddity, a last lingering survival which must have been extinguished before long. However, a dazzling new piece of research and speculative reconstruction by the German scholar Gottfried Schramm has proposed that these Thracian Bessi were none other than the real ancestors of the Albanians. According to Schramm, the Bessi must have moved out of their western Bulgarian homeland and into the northern Albanian region in the early ninth century, probably to escape the persecution of Christians by the still pagan Bulgar khans. The early conversion of the Bessi to Christianity is indeed, in Schramm's view, the key to the entire question of how and why Albanian survived as a language. We know that the Bessi were converted by an enterprising bishop, Nicetas, in the late fourth century, and from the writings of a friend of Nicetas who celebrated this event we also know that he learned their language and taught them to practise their Christianity in it - in other words, that Bessan was used as a liturgical language.(The evidence of the Bessan-speaking monks supports this point.) Nicetas, whose own mother-tongue was Latin, may also have translated parts of the Bible; the obvious model - or competition - that he must have had in mind was the work of a heretical bishop, Ulfilas, who was using the Germanic Gothic language for liturgy and Bible-translation among the nearby population of Goths in northern Bulgaria. And, as comparison with other linguistic survivals (such as Armenian or Coptic) shows, nothing helps a language to survive quite so much as its use from a very early stage in a kind of national church.

One thing is quite certain: the Albanians did acquire their Christianity from a Latin-speaking teacher or teachers. The Albanian language contains much Latin-derived vocabulary anyway, having obviously absorbed words from nearby Romans or Romanized barbarians from the second century bc onwards; but the Latin element is especially rich in the area of Christian belief and Christian practice. Thus we have meshe (mass), from missa; ipeshk (bishop), from episcopus; ungjill (gospel), from evangelium; mrekull (miracle), from miraculum; and a great number of other words, extending far into the vocabulary of psychology, morality and even the natural world (such as qiell, meaning heaven or sky, from caelum).
altin

Dublin, Ireland

#34 Jan 1, 2013
Many of the words that would need to be put on such a list, in fact, are not special ecclesiastical terms, for which a non-Christian population would have no equivalent of its own; they are simple words such as 'spirit','sin','pray*,'holy', and so on, for which most languages, even in preChristian times, have their own vocabulary. When other early evangelizers translated the Bible or the liturgy into Armenian, or Gothic, or Anglo-Saxon, they used local words for these things - that, indeed, is what is implied by the whole idea of translation. Why should Nicetas, translating into proto-Albanian, have simply transferred huge quantities of Latin words? Schramm notes the oddity of this in passing, and suggests unconvincingly that there must have been some special cultural reasons. But the oddity is more overwhelming than he admits. For example, even the word for a flock, as used in Christian discourse, was taken from the Latin (grigje, from grex)- of all the things in the world, the one for which a shepherding population must surely have had its own word already.

The solution to this puzzle is blindingly simple. These elements of Latin vocabulary have undergone exactly the same sorts of sound-changes, compressions and erosions as all the other Latin words which entered the Albanian language over several centuries; and the reason why those words entered the language was that the Albanians were in contact, over a long period, with people who spoke Latin. The existence of large quantities of such Christianity-related Latin vocabulary does not show that someone 'translated' Christian discourse into early Albanian. It shows the precise opposite - namely, that Albanians were for a long time exposed to the conduct of their religion not in translation but in the original Latin. This can even be demonstrated grammatically. The term for 'Holy Trinity', Shendertat, bears a final 't' and an accent on the last syllable: this shows that it developed from the accusative, sanctam trinitatem, not the nominative, sancta trinitas. That is in fact the normal pattern of development in Romance languages, which gives us, for example, Spanish ciudad from dvitatem (not from civitas), or French mont from montem (not from mons).(There are many other Albanian examples too, such as grigje, mentioned above, which is really from gregem, not grex.) What this phenomenon reflects is a pattern of usage in spoken Latin: these words were heard much more often as the objects in sentences than as the subjects. If Nicetas had been coining new Albanian words out of Latin for the purposes of his translation, he would surely have taken them from the nominative form. These words entered Albanian because Albanians heard them, over and over again, in spoken liturgical Latin.

Schramm's theory fails, therefore; and in so doing it performs a signal service. Thanks to Schramm, the Thracians can now be eliminated from these enquiries. His research into Nicetas's activities does indeed show that the Bessi received their Christianity, so to speak, in translation; this must force us to conclude that the Albanians, who received theirs in the original Latin, cannot be identified with the Bessi. The language of the Bessi must eventually have perished. Since the Bessi were the only Thracian tribe known to have kept their language as late as the sixth century (and Byzantine sources are naturally more detailed on the Thracian areas, which for them were closer to home, than on the Illyrian ones), it is impossible to find any other Thracian candidates. The origins of the Albanians must be sought, therefore, on the Illyrian side of the divide - particularly in the mountains round Kosovo, in the Malesi, and in the tangle of mountains stretching north from there through Montenegro.
altin

Dublin, Ireland

#35 Jan 1, 2013
The Latin elements in Albanian help to confirm this location. From the fact that so much general vocabulary was absorbed into Albanian from Latin, and so little from Greek, it is clear that the proto-Albanians lived some way to the north of the Latin-Greek linguistic divide. This language frontier ran from the Adriatic coast near Lezha across the middle of Albania, then up to the line of the Sar mountains, curving southwards to take in Latin-speaking Skopje, and then running northwards roughly along the Serbian-Bulgarian border. At the same time, the fact that the protoAlbanians never actually lost their language indicates that they were somewhat isolated from the main areas of Roman settlement - which included the lowlands and the major roads. One influential theory therefore places the early Albanians in the part of northern Albania which (according to archeological evidence and place-names) was the most untouched by Roman influence: the 'Mat' district north-east of Tirana and west of Debar. From there, according to this theory, the early Albanians were able to expand to fill the region bounded by the river Shkumbin, the Black Drin, the united Drin and the coast.

What this theory fails to account for, however, is another key aspect of the Albanian language's connection with Latin: its intimate involvement in the development of the Vlach-Romanian language. Linguists have long been aware that Albanian and Romanian have many features in common, in matters of structure, vocabulary and idiom, and that these must have arisen in two ways. First, the 'substratum' of Romanian (that is, the language spoken by the proto-Romanians before they switched to Latin) must have been similar to Albanian; and secondly, there must have been close contact between Albanians and early Romanian-speakers over a long period, involving a shared pastoral life.(Some key elements of the pastoral vocabulary in Romanian are borrowed from Albanian.) The substratum elements include both structural matters, such as the positioning of the definite article as a suffix on the end of the noun, and various elements of primitive Balkan pre-Latin vocabulary, such as copil ('child' in Romanian) or kopil ('bastard child' in Albanian). If the links between the two languages were only at substratum level, this might not imply any geographical proximity - it would merely show that proto-Albanian was similar to other varieties of Illyrian spoken elsewhere. But the pastoral connections do indicate that Albanians and early Romanians lived for a long time in the same (or at least overlapping) areas.

This has some geographical implications. Late Latin developed in two different forms in the Balkans: a coastal variety, which survived as a distinct language (known as Dalmatian) until the end of the nineteenth century, and the form spoken in the interior, which turned into Romanian and Vlach. From place-names it is clear that the coastal form, spoken also in Shkodra and Durres, penetrated some way into the northern Albanian mountains. There are some traces of this variety of Latin in Albanian, but the Albanian language's links with the inland variety of Balkan Latin are much stronger. This suggests that the centre of gravity ofAlbanian-Vlach symbiosis lay a little further to the east.
altin

Dublin, Ireland

#36 Jan 1, 2013
When and how did that symbiosis take place? Presumably the Latin-speaking proto-Romanians came to pastoralism later than the early Albanians. If they had been doing it for as long as the Albanians, and in similar areas, they would - just like the Albanians - have escaped Latinization altogether. Some historians have decided that the proto-Romanians must have been Latinspeaking city-dwellers, who somehow extricated themselves from their towns in the early Slav centuries and became long-distance travellers or shepherds instead; but this seems inherently implausible.(Had they come from the towns, their Latin would surely have been closer to standard Latin in its structure, too.) There is in fact enough Latin agricultural vocabulary in Romanian -words for sowing, ploughing, harrowing, and so on - to show that they were farming in Roman times. The shift towards pastoralism was probably quite gradual. One particular factor that may have helped to promote it was the practice of horse-breeding, which was, or at least became, a Vlach speciality: the medieval records are full of Vlach muleteers and Vlachs leading caravans of pack-horses. Such an occupation requires contact with towns (where the trade is), and may be combined with some farming in the towns' vicinity; but it also involves a form of stock-breeding, which could have given the early Vlachs an entree into the higher-altitude world of Albanian flocks and herds.

The main area of the Balkan interior where a Latin-speaking population may have continued, in both towns and country, after the Slav invasion, has already been mentioned: it included the upper Morava valley, northern Macedonia, and the whole of Kosovo. It is, therefore, in the uplands of the Kosovo area (particularly, but not only, on the western side, including parts of Montenegro) that this Albanian-Vlach symbiosis probably developed. All the evidence comes together at this point. What it suggests is that the Kosovo region, together with at least part of northern Albania, was the crucial focus of two distinct but interlinked ethnic histories: the survival of the Albanians, and the emergence of the Romanians and Vlachs. One large group of Vlachs seems to have broken away and moved southwards by the ninth or tenth century; the proto-Romanians stayed in contact with Albanians significantly longer, before drifting northeastwards, and crossing the Danube in the twelfth century. Having reached these conclusions, it may be possible, finally, to draw some further implications from them that point back to a much earlier period of Kosovo's history. The point is a very simple one. If Albanian-speakers were able to live in this area without losing their language during the period from the sixth century to the twelfth, is there any reason to think that they could not have been there in the previous six centuries or more? The Roman province of Dardania contained some Roman towns and several large estates, but it was far from being utterly and homogeneously Romanized: frequent Roman references to Dardanian bandits and robbers, and the presence of many forts and watch-towers, suggest that it was never completely under control. References to Dardanian cheese, a famous and widely exported product, also testify to a large shepherding population. And if the shepherds in the hills were speaking protoAlbanian, then perhaps that is what the ordinary Dardanians had spoken in the valleys too, before the Romans came. This is more a speculation than a conclusion; and it is not meant to exclude other areas in the Albanian (or Montenegrin) mountains further to the west, given that 'Dardania' was, essentially, a tribal division, not a linguistic one. Once again it must be emphasized that such ancient history can have no implications for modern politics. Nevertheless, the idea that the Illyrian Dardanians were ancestors of the Albanians may be of some sentimental interest to Kosovo Albanians today.
altin

Dublin, Ireland

#37 Jan 1, 2013
Filip II Reincarnated wrote:
"Once even Enver Hoxha was forced to admit that the albanian science lacks scientific objectivity."
("The Albanian Racism Towards its Neighbours is Based on Historical Falsifications"- an Interview with the Persecuted Albanian Academic Professor Dr. Kaplan Resuli-Burovich.)
so philip of stupidity you should read real scolars real doctors on the field of history

“IRONEA 338 B.C.E. ”

Since: Mar 10

Solun, Occupied Macedonia [+]

#38 Jan 7, 2013
Illyrian Script/ALPHABETVM ILLYRICVM ---> MACEDONIAN GLAGOLITIC
(NOT "Caucaso-Albanian"!)

In 1591 an Italian scholar Angelo Rocca (founder of Angelica Library at Rome) wrote a book where Glagolitic Script is included as ALPHABETVM ILLYRICVM
(A. Rocca: Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana a Sixto V... translata, Roma, 1591: Alfabeto glagolitico)

http://www.croatianhistory.net/gif/rocca.jpg

Looong before the creation of "Albania" in 20th century...
altin

Dublin, Ireland

#39 Jan 12, 2013
Filip II Reincarnated wrote:
Illyrian Script/ALPHABETVM ILLYRICVM ---> MACEDONIAN GLAGOLITIC
(NOT "Caucaso-Albanian"!)
In 1591 an Italian scholar Angelo Rocca (founder of Angelica Library at Rome) wrote a book where Glagolitic Script is included as ALPHABETVM ILLYRICVM
(A. Rocca: Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana a Sixto V... translata, Roma, 1591: Alfabeto glagolitico)
http://www.croatianhistory.net/gif/rocca.jpg
Looong before the creation of "Albania" in 20th century...
if you have read noel malcoms study which i posted for you to learn then you would learn so much from the basic of history but you havent til then good luck sllavo-macedonian

“IRONEA 338 B.C.E. ”

Since: Mar 10

Solun, Occupied Macedonia [+]

#40 Jan 13, 2013
altin wrote:
<quoted text>if you have read noel malcoms study which i posted for you to learn then you would learn so much from the basic of history but you havent til then good luck sllavo-macedonian
Send this to Malcolm:

"Albanian was not a language – it had no literature, not even an alphabet - it is a mere patois, and would die out in a generation, and the children of the Albanian soldiers and sailors would all be good Greeks".
(The Catholic Presbyterian an International Journal Ecclesiastical and Religious, vol. II, July – December 1879, edited by Professor W. G. Blaikie D.D., L.L.D., F.R.S.E., p. 319).

“IRONEA 338 B.C.E. ”

Since: Mar 10

Solun, Occupied Macedonia [+]

#41 Jan 13, 2013
Illyrian Script/ALPHABETVM ILLYRICVM ---> MACEDONIAN GLAGOLITIC
(NOT "Caucaso-Albanian"!)

In 1591 an Italian scholar Angelo Rocca (founder of Angelica Library at Rome) wrote a book where Glagolitic Script is included as ALPHABETVM ILLYRICVM
(A. Rocca: Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana a Sixto V... translata, Roma, 1591: Alfabeto glagolitico)

http://www.croatianhistory.net/gif/rocca.jpg

Looong before the creation of "Albania" in 20th century...
altin

Dublin, Ireland

#42 Jan 14, 2013
Filip II Reincarnated wrote:
<quoted text>Send this to Malcolm:
"Albanian was not a language – it had no literature, not even an alphabet - it is a mere patois, and would die out in a generation, and the children of the Albanian soldiers and sailors would all be good Greeks".
(The Catholic Presbyterian an International Journal Ecclesiastical and Religious, vol. II, July – December 1879, edited by Professor W. G. Blaikie D.D., L.L.D., F.R.S.E., p. 319).
hahahahaha what a cloun hahahahahah
Ashley

Nags Head, NC

#43 Jan 14, 2013
Filip II Reincarnated wrote:
Illyrian Script/ALPHABETVM ILLYRICVM ---> MACEDONIAN GLAGOLITIC
(NOT "Caucaso-Albanian"!)
In 1591 an Italian scholar Angelo Rocca (founder of Angelica Library at Rome) wrote a book where Glagolitic Script is included as ALPHABETVM ILLYRICVM
(A. Rocca: Biblioteca Apostolica Vaticana a Sixto V... translata, Roma, 1591: Alfabeto glagolitico)
http://www.croatianhistory.net/gif/rocca.jpg
Looong before the creation of "Albania" in 20th century...
Why did Mother Teresa never say she was Macedonian but said she had Indian citizenship?

“IRONEA 338 B.C.E. ”

Since: Mar 10

Solun, Occupied Macedonia [+]

#44 Jan 18, 2013
Ashley wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did Mother Teresa never say she was Macedonian but said she had Indian citizenship?
You mongrels from Caucasus cannot understand relations between the Aryans. In the meantime Indians are bringing their gratitude to Macedonia and Mother Tereza:

http://vlada.mk/node/3512...

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