Putin signs anti-gay law banning 'propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations' in Russia

Jun 30, 2013 Full story: Canada.com 305

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Since: Apr 11

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#44 Jul 3, 2013
OkieDarren you smart ass, tell us one thing,

if everyone were gay what would happen to humanity???

Since: Mar 09

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#45 Jul 4, 2013
Dimitri100 wrote:
OkieDarren you smart ass, tell us one thing,
if everyone were gay what would happen to humanity???
Since it naturally occurs in only one in 20-25 births, and isn't something that is learned or spread, your question makes no sense. Gay people are not infertile, but just have no attraction to the opposite sex.

What if everyone were monks (and THEIR lifestyle is a choice) what would happen to humanity?

And on the 8th day, god made the turkey baster.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#46 Jul 4, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Since it naturally occurs in only one in 20-25 births, and isn't something that is learned or spread, your question makes no sense. Gay people are not infertile, but just have no attraction to the opposite sex.
What if everyone were monks (and THEIR lifestyle is a choice) what would happen to humanity?
And on the 8th day, god made the turkey baster.
.

Come on Snyper you know what I mean,

Gays are freaks of nature, just the same as someone born with 2 heads, you can't say that's normal.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#47 Jul 4, 2013
Dimitri100 wrote:
<quoted text>.
Come on Snyper you know what I mean,
Gays are freaks of nature, just the same as someone born with 2 heads, you can't say that's normal.
1:25 births hardly qualifies as a "freak of nature", but I'm pleased that you recognize that it is a natural occurrence. Nature doesn't require a "normal", and reproduction is not it's only mechanism for species success. You should know that.

Worse, couched within your analogy AND your assertion is the unstated assumption that gay orientation is harmful to the species.

It isn't.

Your analogy is absurd on the face of it. What if all trees were oak? What if all rocks were basalt?

The computer you are using was the brainchild of Alan Turing, a gay man. Many programmers who wrote the software you use, and which provide the infrastructure upon which the internet operates were/are gay people. From scientists of every stripe to lowly technicians, from architects and engineers to the persons who clean the restrooms at the airport, farmers, trucker, soldiers, sailors, tinkers, spies, etc., gay people fill all these functions in human society. From the obstetrician and nurses who delivered you, to the barber who gave you your first haircut, the teacher who taught you long division, the coach who trained your muscles and taught you team effort, all the way to the mortician who will embalm you, the person who will arrange the flowers, the other one who will dig your grave, and the one who will cry with those you leave behind, gay people are among all of these.

What if everyone were gay?

One of them would have invented the turkey baster.

We are excellent cooks, too.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#48 Jul 5, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
1:25 births hardly qualifies as a "freak of nature", but I'm pleased that you recognize that it is a natural occurrence. Nature doesn't require a "normal", and reproduction is not it's only mechanism for species success. You should know that.
Worse, couched within your analogy AND your assertion is the unstated assumption that gay orientation is harmful to the species.
It isn't.
Your analogy is absurd on the face of it. What if all trees were oak? What if all rocks were basalt?
The computer you are using was the brainchild of Alan Turing, a gay man. Many programmers who wrote the software you use, and which provide the infrastructure upon which the internet operates were/are gay people. From scientists of every stripe to lowly technicians, from architects and engineers to the persons who clean the restrooms at the airport, farmers, trucker, soldiers, sailors, tinkers, spies, etc., gay people fill all these functions in human society. From the obstetrician and nurses who delivered you, to the barber who gave you your first haircut, the teacher who taught you long division, the coach who trained your muscles and taught you team effort, all the way to the mortician who will embalm you, the person who will arrange the flowers, the other one who will dig your grave, and the one who will cry with those you leave behind, gay people are among all of these.
What if everyone were gay?
One of them would have invented the turkey baster.
We are excellent cooks, too.
If you think sticking you dick up another man's arse is normal, you are even more deluded than you think. Hehehehe.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#50 Jul 5, 2013
Dimitri100 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you think sticking you dick up another man's arse is normal, you are even more deluded than you think. Hehehehe.
Again, nature has NO need of "normal".

You also aren't including lesbians in your equation.

Gay orientation is not the same as however it may be expressed.

I don't see you denying heteros (who engage in all the same activities with their partners) the Freedom to communicate with each other, to peacefully assemble, to organize, to collectively act and bargain, or to seek redress of grievances.

I read on these boards a lot of kark about how Russia is a free country. Free from control from the outside, yes, I agree. But free inside? Not really. Diversity is not respected. It is not protected. So always there are Citizens who are not free.

THAT is why Democracy does NOT equal majority rule. It disenfranchises and silences minorities.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#52 Jul 5, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, nature has NO need of "normal".
You also aren't including lesbians in your equation.
Gay orientation is not the same as however it may be expressed.
I don't see you denying heteros (who engage in all the same activities with their partners) the Freedom to communicate with each other, to peacefully assemble, to organize, to collectively act and bargain, or to seek redress of grievances.
I read on these boards a lot of kark about how Russia is a free country. Free from control from the outside, yes, I agree. But free inside? Not really. Diversity is not respected. It is not protected. So always there are Citizens who are not free.
THAT is why Democracy does NOT equal majority rule. It disenfranchises and silences minorities.
.

Please do not think that I'm anti gays, I know they are born that way, freaks of nature, it's not their fault but, that said, does not mean gays have to be accepted as normal people.

If you follow that logic, it means we also have to accept paedophiles as normal, they are also born that way, it's also not their fault.

The bible tells you that and I quote from Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with another man..they are committing an abomination, etc etc etc.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#53 Jul 5, 2013
Dimitri100 wrote:
<quoted text>.
Please do not think that I'm anti gays, I know they are born that way, freaks of nature, it's not their fault but, that said, does not mean gays have to be accepted as normal people.
If you follow that logic, it means we also have to accept paedophiles as normal, they are also born that way, it's also not their fault.
The bible tells you that and I quote from Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with another man..they are committing an abomination, etc etc etc.
Let's leave the religion issue aside for the moment, and look at the rest of your assertions.

You focus on "normal" as though it is anything other than a human model. Again, nature does not require a "normal".

You choose, without proof, that A and B are the same thing, with the same qualities.

Paedophiles are NOT "born that way". None of the Social Sciences say that they are. That is one way in which A is not B.

Paedophiles are predatory and frequently violent, and these qualities are intrinsic to the condition. This is not the case with gay orientation, so this is another way in which A is not B.

The term "freaks of nature" is being used pejoratively in an appeal to the reader's emotions, not to his logic and sure empirical knowledge. Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Cui, Rimsky-Korsakov, Shostakovich, etc. were all "freaks of nature". What, specifically, about these "freaks of nature" makes them not Citizens; makes them unable to participate in Civic duties and make creative and substantive contributions to their communities. What makes them open to derision, mayhem and murder, unprotected by their government as are all Citizens?

Your pejorative use of "freaks" in this context is to imply a "defect". Do Russians regularly beat their "defectives"?

For government to allow an individual Citizen's Rights and Equal Protections under the Law to be limited, there must be a clear reason for doing so that relates directly. If a Citizen is blind or deaf, it is clear reason that their Freedom to operate a motor vehicle be restricted. How does being gay directly relate to losing Free Speech, the Right to peaceably assemble, and to seek redress of grievances?

In the U.S. State of Oregon, there was a Law on the books that forbade people with physical deformities from being out and about in the towns. This law dated from the 1800s when traveling circuses would have tents of "human oddities" on display. This was considered at the time to be cruel, so the law was passed to make it unprofitable to have such shows in that State. In the 1980s, that law was used by a restaurant to refuse to serve a person with Cerebral Palsy because another customer complained. This was wrong, and the result after a few years was the Ruling by the Federal Courts that all such laws were unconstitutional, and shortly thereafter the "Americans with Disabilities Act" passed through Congress. This act also mandated the modification of restroom facilities and accessibility ramps to all buildings that serve the public in any way. Buses, trains, trolleys, subways and airplanes all must accommodate wheelchairs. People with all forms of disability became "mainstreamed" wherever possible, instead of shut away.

From what I can tell, Russia has a very large problem with many forms of predatory behavior. Many homeless, and poor children and young people are being preyed upon by predators of many kinds ... for money. SOME of these kids are gay. Most are not, but a ruble is a ruble and the winter is long and hard, no?

There ARE predators who wish to recruit young people into prostitution, but that is not the same thing as gay people being able to contact and support each other. It is not the same as collectively petitioning for redress of injustices, not only systemically by government, but systemically by fellow Citizens ... often encouraged by church.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#54 Jul 5, 2013
Dimitri100 wrote:
<quoted text>.
Please do not think that I'm anti gays, I know they are born that way, freaks of nature, it's not their fault but, that said, does not mean gays have to be accepted as normal people.
If you follow that logic, it means we also have to accept paedophiles as normal, they are also born that way, it's also not their fault.
The bible tells you that and I quote from Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with another man..they are committing an abomination, etc etc etc.
Let's leave the religion issue aside for the moment, and look at the rest of your assertions.

You focus on "normal" as though it is anything other than a human model. Again, nature does not require a "normal".

You choose, without proof, that A and B are the same thing, with the same qualities.

Paedophiles are NOT "born that way". None of the Social Sciences say that they are. That is one way in which A is not B.

Paedophiles are predatory and frequently violent, and these qualities are intrinsic to the condition. This is not the case with gay orientation, so this is another way in which A is not B.

The term "freaks of nature" is being used pejoratively in an appeal to the reader's emotions, not to his logic and sure empirical knowledge. Tchaikovsky, Borodin, Cui, Rimsky-Korsakov, Shostakovich, etc. were all "freaks of nature". What, specifically, about these "freaks of nature" makes them not Citizens; makes them unable to participate in Civic duties and make creative and substantive contributions to their communities. What makes them open to derision, mayhem and murder, unprotected by their government as are all Citizens?

Your pejorative use of "freaks" in this context is to imply a "defect". Do Russians regularly beat their "defectives"?

For government to allow an individual Citizen's Rights and Equal Protections under the Law to be limited, there must be a clear reason for doing so that relates directly. If a Citizen is blind or deaf, it is clear reason that their Freedom to operate a motor vehicle be restricted. How does being gay directly relate to losing Free Speech, the Right to peaceably assemble, and to seek redress of grievances?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#55 Jul 5, 2013
In the U.S. State of Oregon, there was a Law on the books that forbade people with physical deformities from being out and about in the towns. This law dated from the 1800s when traveling circuses would have tents of "human oddities" on display. This was considered at the time to be cruel, so the law was passed to make it unprofitable to have such shows in that State. In the 1980s, that law was used by a restaurant to refuse to serve a person with Cerebral Palsy because another customer complained. This was wrong, and the result after a few years was the Ruling by the Federal Courts that all such laws were unconstitutional, and shortly thereafter the "Americans with Disabilities Act" passed through Congress. This act also mandated the modification of restroom facilities and accessibility ramps to all buildings that serve the public in any way. Buses, trains, trolleys, subways and airplanes all must accommodate wheelchairs. People with all forms of disability became "mainstreamed" wherever possible, instead of shut away.

From what I can tell, Russia has a very large problem with many forms of predatory behavior. Many homeless, and poor children and young people are being preyed upon by predators of many kinds ... for money. SOME of these kids are gay. Most are not, but a ruble is a ruble and the winter is long and hard, no?

There ARE predators who wish to recruit young people into prostitution, but that is not the same thing as gay people being able to contact and support each other. It is not the same as collectively petitioning for redress of injustices, not only systemically by government, but systemically by fellow Citizens ... often encouraged by church.

What has been done to gay people in Russia will have NO impact upon the real problems.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#56 Jul 5, 2013
(oh crap! TOPIX is SSTTUUTTEERRIINNGG again!)

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#57 Jul 5, 2013
snyper wrote:
(oh crap! TOPIX is SSTTUUTTEERRIINNGG again!)
.

I'm sorry but, you will never convince normal people with your rhetoric.

If I may say so, anyone incapable of distinguishing between normal and abnormal, needs psychiatric treatment.

The bible tells you that and I quote from Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with another man..they are committing an abomination, etc etc etc.

Hehehehe.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#58 Jul 5, 2013
Dimitri100 wrote:
<quoted text>.
I'm sorry but, you will never convince normal people with your rhetoric.
If I may say so, anyone incapable of distinguishing between normal and abnormal, needs psychiatric treatment.
The bible tells you that and I quote from Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with another man..they are committing an abomination, etc etc etc.
Hehehehe.
Not "rhetoric", except in it's old original meaning of speech intended to instruct.

Nature doesn't need a "normal". It's a purely human construct. A model.

In the Social Sciences, "abnormal" does not mean "bad". In an Abnormal Psychology course one studies the abnormalites that are geniuses, the talented, the gifted, as well as those of the violent sociopath, the developmentally disabled and the criminal. The "norm" is just a statistical center expressed in a line graph as a "bell curve".

You aren't actually speaking of "normal" but rather of a group-imposed "conformity", which is diametrically opposed to the very concept of the Freedom of the individual sovereign Citizen.

But then, Russia has known nothing else for centuries. Conformity under the Mongols and Tatars and Tsars and church, then conformity under the soviet systems; and now, imposed conformity by a mix of a State with an increasingly fascist flavor, a church that is in cahoots with it and additionally imposing it's own conformity, and that imposed by people who have known little else but conformity under various names for a thousand years.

Difference, of itself, is not necessarily bad. It's just different.

E Pluribus Unum

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#59 Jul 5, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Not "rhetoric", except in it's old original meaning of speech intended to instruct.
Nature doesn't need a "normal". It's a purely human construct. A model.
In the Social Sciences, "abnormal" does not mean "bad". In an Abnormal Psychology course one studies the abnormalites that are geniuses, the talented, the gifted, as well as those of the violent sociopath, the developmentally disabled and the criminal. The "norm" is just a statistical center expressed in a line graph as a "bell curve".
You aren't actually speaking of "normal" but rather of a group-imposed "conformity", which is diametrically opposed to the very concept of the Freedom of the individual sovereign Citizen.
But then, Russia has known nothing else for centuries. Conformity under the Mongols and Tatars and Tsars and church, then conformity under the soviet systems; and now, imposed conformity by a mix of a State with an increasingly fascist flavor, a church that is in cahoots with it and additionally imposing it's own conformity, and that imposed by people who have known little else but conformity under various names for a thousand years.
Difference, of itself, is not necessarily bad. It's just different.
E Pluribus Unum
.

Who says that "abnormal" means bad???

You seem to be running away with yourself. Hehehehe.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#60 Jul 5, 2013
Dimitri100 wrote:
<quoted text>.
Who says that "abnormal" means bad???
You seem to be running away with yourself. Hehehehe.
From the context of your usage, coupling it with terms like "freak of nature", and a generally pejorative tone, it's reasonable to recognize an intentional negative set of associations.

“Trust no one in politics.”

Since: Apr 08

Pompano Beach, FL

#61 Jul 6, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
From the context of your usage, coupling it with terms like "freak of nature", and a generally pejorative tone, it's reasonable to recognize an intentional negative set of associations.
Would you prefer the more scientific term genetic defect?

Sort of like being born with a severe form of mental illness.

“Trust no one in politics.”

Since: Apr 08

Pompano Beach, FL

#62 Jul 6, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Your definition of "sexuality" is incorrect. In the Social Sciences, the term refers to all manifestations of gender, however expressed. A totality.

"Penthouse" is voyeuristic eroticism; both expressions of "sexuality".

The key is in "-ality" suffix.

You can draw any distinctions you wish, but "sexuality" was coined as a part of the professional vocabulary of the Social Sciences. That others misuse or confuse the term colloquially does not alter it's specific denotation.
Sexuality has to do with manifestations of gender? Hmmmm. So you are asexual?

I thought queers claimed sexuality was possible within genders?

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#63 Jul 6, 2013
Dimitri100 wrote:
<quoted text>.
Please do not think that I'm anti gays, I know they are born that way, freaks of nature, it's not their fault but, that said, does not mean gays have to be accepted as normal people.
If you follow that logic, it means we also have to accept paedophiles as normal, they are also born that way, it's also not their fault.
The bible tells you that and I quote from Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with another man..they are committing an abomination, etc etc etc.
Whenever I read someone equating Pedophilia with being gay and using the "born that way" gambit, I have to ask why you ignore the fact that heterosexuals are "born that way"and that most pedophiles are heterosexual.

It's nice that you SAY you aren't "anti-gay" but the fact is you really are if you resort to such tactics.

Now as far as Levitical codes go, if you insist one part is God's Rule" then you must also accept ALL OTHER PARTS as "God's Rules".

But you folks never do that. Instead you take from the Bible passages that put down others so you can gain a sense of piety, while ignoring the major parts of the Bible that talk about how offensive such actions are to God and Jesus.

Instead of Leviticus maybe you should be focusing on verses like these:

Matthew 25:31-46
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

Matthew 5:11
http://biblehub.com/matthew/5-11.htm

Luke 10:25-37
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#64 Jul 6, 2013
Dimitri100 wrote:
<quoted text>.
I'm sorry but, you will never convince normal people with your rhetoric.
If I may say so, anyone incapable of distinguishing between normal and abnormal, needs psychiatric treatment.
The bible tells you that and I quote from Leviticus 20:13 If a man lies with another man..they are committing an abomination, etc etc etc.
Hehehehe.
But you're not anti gay?
Right.
And there's a bridge in Brooklyn you have for sale as well, right?
As for your snide remark about us never convincing "normal people" you must have been in some cave for the last year or so.
SSM has been passed in many places now, so that means "NORMAL" people passed it unless you want to claim normal people are a minority, in which case they wouldn't be the norm!

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#65 Jul 6, 2013
Dimitri100 wrote:
<quoted text>.
Who says that "abnormal" means bad???
You seem to be running away with yourself. Hehehehe.
Dimiti100 did in post 57

hehehehe

You seem to be running away from yourself. Hehehehe.

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