Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

[MAAT]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
The media was perpetuating the label of the house as an embassy. But embassies are in capital cities. Satellite offices are called consulates.
Romney makes the same error in his speeches.
People need to learn the language of diplomacy before making undiplomatic statements. Or at least surround themselves with people who know.

As far as i know it was also not a consulate.
More like an observer.
Yep confusion.

[SeasideSoon]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>
The media was perpetuating the label of the house as an embassy. But embassies are in capital cities. Satellite offices are called consulates.
Romney makes the same error in his speeches.
People need to learn the language of diplomacy before making undiplomatic statements. Or at least surround themsves with people who know.

Fox has gotten it right in their coverage and differentiating between the consulate and the safe house. So what's the bottom line? Was Stevens set up?

[ana]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>It wasnt an embassy. It was barely even a consulate, and technically probably didnt even meet the definition of even that. It was the guys residence which then morphed into a consulate as things stabilized after the war. It was never "opened" - Stevens had been there already many months working with the opposition. The US had every reason to be there - they were involved in the revolution, remember?

Well if that is the truth them negligence is all I can say... As someone previously pointed out..

As for the American presence in Libya it was all far too obvious for us from the outset....

There is now an American/French army base in southern Libya on the algerian border...

A secret US military base in Mauritania

A French / US military base in Mali

Various US led military bases in morocco

The USA is flying unmanned drones across the Sahel region of the Sahara in its attempt to fight the al Qaeda of the Maghreb - why should the USA care about Africa ??

The USA sent over 3000 special forces throughout central Africa to help them fight terrorism...

Answer Africa is an extremely rich continent in natural resource

Oil
Natural gas
Phosphate
Gold
Diamond
Calgon
Iron
Holds one of the largest natural water resources in the world - the future oil

So I always wondered to my self, why the west always supports the corrupt governments of Africa - good example
cote d'ivoire

Why are Africans subject to population control HIV? Population control en masse?

Experimented on by giant drugs companies?

Because as a region for Africa to prosper and develop would be a disaster for these imperialists they prefer africans to remain uncivilised and constantly embroiled in manifested conflict the imperialists want what Africa has to offer all for themselves

They have somewhat expedited their mission in Africa as I believe the Chinese and other Asia nations saw an opportunity to explore

The Chinese have created jobs in Africa for Africans , in exchange for mining natural resources , they have built roads infrastructure etc etc

http://www.infowars.com/secret-bases-hi-tech-...

[ana]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>What I meant by historically was the mid to late 20th century. Ghadafi was a dictator but his country was very intellectually sophisticated and unabashedly secular. Compare that with Egypt which has a sophisticated class but lots of uneducated to this day, or Saudia Arabia, or Yemen, etc....There is an obvious inverse correlation between the rise of the middle class and islamic fundamentalist religiousity in the Middle East.

In Libya under the rule of Qaddafi all education was free, the Libyan government sponsored its students to study abroad with full grants

Libyans were not poor and in want under the rule of Qaddafi as was portrayed on the big tv screens

Qaddafi was not stealing from Libyans to the extent that was portrayed by the media

Yes it was secular, so was Iraq and look what happened there...

But the difference lets say between Egypt and Libya is the number in population

Libya's population count is tiny compared to Egypt

[ana]

MAAT wrote:

<quoted text>Just the usual compound African houses have.
i understand they had a saferoom, but no escape, nor proper ventilation.
Frankly it was thus not a consulate nor an embassy persé, and Stevens was more or less working as intermediary, with a long trackrecord in Arab speaking countries.
It was not a civil conflict but a raid, organized by jihadi, that stayed in the dark perimeter organizing it.
Heavy weapons were used.
So this was a targetted attack, bound to happen sooner or later.
No country can abide para-military groups.
They spell trouble to all, not only Americans/westerners.

Dnt misuse the word jihadi they aren't jihadists .... I posted somewhere here it's correct meaning...yet again the media has warped the true definition to become a feared term the people associate with a terrorist

[ana]

MAAT wrote:

<quoted text>I understood that they went from the safe-rom were they could not breath anymore, through the basement, and tried to open a big enough hole in the wall. They did not succeed. So were still in the basement.
But we have read the piece by the interior minister that made this comparison with the abuse (alleged)of Gaddafi, as an admonishen as to what could happen.
It was an opinion piece, not a factual description.
Someone might have been dragged, and it might well have been one of the guards posted to keep the attack at bay.
I do not put anything beyond them, but in the case of Stevens that has not happened.

What else do i know...people die just for being a real African. They do not even survive jail for one day unless they have connections.
Therefore the deal Fortress Europe made with Lybia, in sending people back, or letting Lybia take them in, was against any human rights.
And if you are jewish, you get tortured and never get out.
But that is normal in all arab/muslim countries.

What about the jails in Israel holding innocent Palestinians

[ana]

MAAT wrote:

<quoted text>OBL also started with offering help, that obligates poor people. Same tactic is used by all brotherhood factions.
North-Africa used to have their own kind of kingdoms and tribes,
After independence they tried to find a common denominator (like a UN to prevent war)and that choice was islam.
But the berbers/tamazight f.i. lost their land and standing.
Most youngsters are well educated and all countries try to keep a lid on extremism. Now that is going to be much harder.
But the point is that it is import from Egypt, birth-place of bannah ( Given safe haven by the uncle of Arafat, the Egyptian Mufti of jeruzalem that had ambitions to rule mekka and Saudi Arabia, and that worked together with Hitler. Bannah was originater of the greater arab empire* with 'palestinians' as the expendable forefighters and killing a president was no problem. They also tried to kill the king of Jordan.) and later salafya thinking, thus extreme jihadism.
They shared a website with blut und boden, the german neo-nazi extremists.
In Sudan they allready succeeded. They call Sudan Greater palestine. We are talking at least 20 million dead people. Starved to dead or tortured or simply killed. So Arabs have more turf to pollute and waist. And still they want to come to the west. And still they want to overrun Libanon and Israel.
They have like 400 million highly educated people, and 800 million barely educated people, that are moving to the towns, so the educated ones want to get out.

Well they are very republican, they only look out for themselves, and do not understand democracy.
;)

I know you mean well but you are confused regards North African history go and read about the Muslim conquests of the Maghreb region

Islam has been in the Maghreb region for centuries

And stop misusing the term jihad ....

[Frijoles]

ana wrote:

<quoted text>
Well if that is the truth them negligence is all I can say... As someone previously pointed out..
As for the American presence in Libya it was all far too obvious for us from the outset....
There is now an American/French army base in southern Libya on the algerian border...
A secret US military base in Mauritania
A French / US military base in Mali
Various US led military bases in morocco
The USA is flying unmanned drones across the Sahel region of the Sahara in its attempt to fight the al Qaeda of the Maghreb - why should the USA care about Africa ??
The USA sent over 3000 special forces throughout central Africa to help them fight terrorism...
Answer Africa is an extremely rich continent in natural resource
Oil
Natural gas
Phosphate
Gold
Diamond
Calgon
Iron
Holds one of the largest natural water resources in the world - the future oil
So I always wondered to my self, why the west always supports the corrupt governments of Africa - good example
cote d'ivoire
Why are Africans subject to population control HIV? Population control en masse?
Experimented on by giant drugs companies?
Because as a region for Africa to prosper and develop would be a disaster for these imperialists they prefer africans to remain uncivilised and constantly embroiled in manifested conflict the imperialists want what Africa has to offer all for themselves
They have somewhat expedited their mission in Africa as I believe the Chinese and other Asia nations saw an opportunity to explore
The Chinese have created jobs in Africa for Africans , in exchange for mining natural resources , they have built roads infrastructure etc etc
http://www.infowars.com/secret-bases-hi-tech-...

Id be more sympathetic with your conclusions if we didnt have Yemeni trained Nigerians trying to blow up our airliners, and if it wasnt for 911.

US doesnt care about Africa for its resources - we already ceded it to China.

[Frijoles]

ana wrote:

<quoted text>
What about the jails in Israel holding innocent Palestinians

Violence against civilians isnt so innocent.

[Frijoles]

SeasideSoon wrote:

<quoted text>Fox has gotten it right in their coverage and differentiating between the consulate and the safe house. So what's the bottom line? Was Stevens set up?

It sure looked like it. I dont know why that would be a political controversy.

[Frijoles]

ana wrote:

<quoted text>
I know you mean well but you are confused regards North African history go and read about the Muslim conquests of the Maghreb region
Islam has been in the Maghreb region for centuries
And stop misusing the term jihad ....

I am not unsympathetic to your views on jihad - but the fact is, in the west, jihad is synononous with terror, and the terrorists have done everything they could to perpetuate that idea. So, in English, MAAT is correct.

The Muslim conquest of the Magreb is a bit different than the current wave of Salafism poring thru. Demolitions of sufi shrines, etc etc.

[ana]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>Id be more sympathetic with your conclusions if we didnt have Yemeni trained Nigerians trying to blow up our airliners, and if it wasnt for 911.

US doesnt care about Africa for its resources - we already ceded it to China.

America cares very much about resources in Africa ... Why are they patrolling the Sahel region if they don't care... You will see... There is a big power struggle between china and the USA

Who supposedly orchestrated 9/11 predominately Saudis

[ana]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>Violence against civilians isnt so innocent.

No it is unacceptable that's why if gas to end

[ana]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>I am not unsympathetic to your views on jihad - but the fact is, in the west, jihad is synononous with terror, and the terrorists have done everything they could to perpetuate that idea. So, in English, MAAT is correct.

The Muslim conquest of the Magreb is a bit different than the current wave of Salafism poring thru. Demolitions of sufi shrines, etc etc.

But you are misusing terms, which is misleading, and salafists are the earliest types of Muslim but again it's meaning been warped by the media

Pls before you say something understand its meaning first..... Jihad and salafi is an Arabic word not an English one so you are both incorrect

Honestly these types of discussion make me so tired

You have never been to North Africa or know enough about the religion of people who live there yet you feel yourselves to have superior knowledge because you have read a few Wikipedia pages

Also now all Americans are expert Islamic scholars because they are taught about Islam I Fox News

[ana]

Frijoles wrote:

<quoted text>I am not unsympathetic to your views on jihad - but the fact is, in the west, jihad is synononous with terror, and the terrorists have done everything they could to perpetuate that idea. So, in English, MAAT is correct.

The Muslim conquest of the Magreb is a bit different than the current wave of Salafism poring thru. Demolitions of sufi shrines, etc etc.

But still your account of history in the Maghreb region is way out ....

[Cult of Reason]

ana wrote:

Why are Africans subject to population control HIV? Population control en masse?

LOL! I see we have another conspiracy nut on our hands. Volunteerist is in good company.

Have you ever considered that the HIV problem in Africa is the result of (1) Poverty driven ignorance and (2) The Catholic church's misinformation campaign and constant preaching that condoms are evil?

[ana]

Cult of Reason wrote:

<quoted text>LOL! I see we have another conspiracy nut on our hands. Volunteerist is in good company.

Have you ever considered that the HIV problem in Africa is the result of (1) Poverty driven ignorance and (2) The Catholic church's misinformation campaign and constant preaching that condoms are evil?

I'm talking about the epidemic of HIV, why did it only explode during the 1980s? It's not a conspiracy theory but a question which remains unanswered

300 years ago condoms didn't exist yet there was no HiV epidemic, even the earliest half of last century during the colonial times of west no HIV epidemic

It is very well documented that drugs companies illegally administered drugs trials to Africans In Africa in exchange for anti malaria medicine... So no conspiracy there

[Cult of Reason]

ana wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm talking about the epidemic of HIV, why did it only explode during the 1980s? It's not a conspiracy theory but a question which remains unanswered
300 years ago condoms didn't exist yet there was no HiV epidemic, even the earliest half of last century during the colonial times of west no HIV epidemic
It is very well documented that drugs companies illegally administered drugs trials to Africans In Africa in exchange for anti malaria medicine... So no conspiracy there

HIV might not have existed 300 years ago in its current genetic form, but other diseases did. Syphilis, Bubonic Plague, Flu, etc, etc...Were all these brought on by scheming drug companies 300 years ago?

History is replete with periods of outbreaks with natural explanations. There is nothing unnatural about new diseases sprouting up, driven mainly by viruses that naturally genetically mutate over time. Not everything bad that happens has a scheming agent behind it.

[seasidesoon]

ana wrote:

<quoted text>
What about the jails in Israel holding innocent Palestinians

name one please. While in jail they get tv, conjugal visits and education. Yet most released return to violence. The pa police trained by u.s. has several instances of killing Israeli civilians with the arms we provided. I've been there. The pa steals the aid money and won't provide basic services to their own. They keep them in squalor for the benefit of the foreign press. The services they do get come from Israel taxpayers. Same story in Gaza.

Concerning western interference in Africa, read George Obama's book.

[Cult of Reason]

http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/aids.as...

The ghastly disease AIDS burst upon the scene in the early 1980s. Though this particular grim reaper has not long stalked among us, it has taken millions of lives and has staked its cold-fingered claim to millions more. That it seemed to appear out of nowhere has sparked a multitude of rumors regarding its origin and path of destruction. Rumors about AIDS include claims that it was:
An out-of-control germ warfare virus that escaped from its handlers.
Spread by specific ethnic groups (e.g., Haitians).
Put in the fluoride of our drinking water.
Put in K-Y Jelly by the Centers for Disease Control to eliminate homosexuals.
Developed by the CIA.
Developed by the Russians.
Created in Hitler's laboratories.

Scientists are generally agreed that AIDS jumped the species barrier from chimpanzees to humans.(Chimpanzees host a virus called SIV, simian immunodeficiency virus, which is regarded as being similar to HIV.) AIDS is not the only new contagion to have begun in such fashion; Ebola and Marburg, two infectious diseases that kill incredible numbers of those who contract them, were passed to humans from monkeys.

It's a simple explanation: Diseases live on by finding victims to infect, and diseases that jump species (sometimes undergoing changes in the process) find a whole new set of victims available to them. Yet this is too pat an explanation for many of us, and we tend to reject that which doesn't fit well to our understanding of our world, substituting in its place myths that, although disturbing, at least seem more logical. We make the arrogant assumption that our world should always make sense according to our current level of knowledge; such a premise works well in most cases but breaks down in the face of matters our understanding does not yet encompass. At those moments at least some of us scramble to find explanations — any explanations — that can be shoehorned into service.