It's the Guns, Stupid

Apr 20, 2007 Full story: Truthdig 103,347

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

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downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#102808 Mar 17, 2013
just an allusion wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, actually, I do.
<quoted text>
I am well aware of the fact that every citizen of the United States has the Constitutionally granted right to own [a] firearm(s), but I'm not finding any intent on the part of the drafters of the contextual language of said Bill of Rights that even imply the granting of such right to extend to/be inclusive of the allowance for ANY type of firearm/gun...I mean, that would be as incredibly ridiculous on their parts as it is presumptuously ignorant of you and others who mirror your perspective to assume such an allowance.
<quoted text>
Yes, we all do have a Bill of Rights that extends to every citizen certain privileges.
<quoted text>

It is not "gun ownership" that I've an issue with, it is the ASSUMPTION that the pretense of the right of 'gun ownership' encompasses an implied right of ownership of ANY type of 'gun' that I've issue with.
To clear up a misconception,it is not a Bill of Privileges, it is a Bill of Rights and according to US v Cruikshank(1875) the right to keep and bear arms is a pre existing right and in no way dependent on the US Constitution for its existence.
Further,do you have any evidence that the framers intending the citizenry to have less sophisticated weapons than those they might take arms against? Me neither.

Kentucky long Rifle
"Col George Hanger, a British officer, became very interested in the American rifle after he witnessed his bugler's horse shot out from under him at a distance, which he measured several times himself, of "full 400 yards", and he learned all he could of the weapon. He writes:
"I have many times asked the American backwoodsman what was the most their best marksmen could do; they have constantly told me that an expert marksman, provided he can draw good & true sight, can hit the head of a man at 200 yards."

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#102809 Mar 17, 2013
spider1954 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have nothing against Romanians,,hadn't even mentioned them, you did that. My gripe is with a system that lets folks into a country that can't cope with what it allready has. Why not try Australia, the weathers is much better there.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, but we cannot get our act together enough to process those in dire straits, so you might want to hold of sugesting Aus as a destination till the government can make a decission one way or the other (if it is all the same to you) you are right about the weather though. I am amazed at a country like the US that is slightly bigger than Aus has such a huge diverse population, you have a great treasurer, that insures your taxes are spent wisely?
Ahomana

Australia

#102810 Mar 17, 2013
I am such a horrible cvnt please stop replying to me it just makes me feel important
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#102811 Mar 17, 2013
just an allusion wrote:
I'm still waiting for one(1), just one(1), logical, rationale, reasonable explanation why your typical, average, everyday citizen-at-large would require a semi-auto/automatic/military style, assault grade weapon to defend themselves &/or their property, the AR-15 under contention for example...Just one(1), you know, much like I'm still waiting for someone to show me one(1), just one(1), so-called "Weapon of Mass Destruction" to justify all of the tax payer money and the lives of our sons and daughters, mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters of our soldiers in arms, not to mention all of the civilian lives we lost here in the states with the destruction of the World Trade Center Towers, as well as all of the subsequent and still tabulating deaths resulting from the Towers' the toxic debris fallout, the government has and is put(ting) into the yet still ongoing war in the Middle East...Just one(1).
Anyone...?
No problem.

You want a reasonable explanation?

We have had massive looting and even murders in weather emergencies like Hurricane Andrew, Hugo, Katrina and Sandy.

We have had looting, widespread arson, savage beatings and murders in the LA riots of 1992. During the 1992 Los Angeles riots, 2,383 people were injured, 8,000 were arrested, 51 were killed and over 700 businesses burned. Property damage was estimated at over one billion dollars. Of the 51 killed,at least ten of them were shot by police or National Guard forces. In terms of self-defense, AR-15s and other so-called “assault weapons” were used many times by Korean business owners during the L.A. Riots. They provided the firepower needed to fend off the mobs of people attempting to loot their stores.

In 1967 the Newark riots caused by the assassination of Martin Luther King took place.. By the sixth day riots, looting, violence, and destruction — ultimately left a total of 26 people dead, 725 people injured, and close to 1,500 arrested. Property damage exceeded $10 million.

Similarly, the 2005 civil unrest in France lasted over three weeks and spread to nearly 300 towns. By the end of the incident, over 10,000 vehicles were destroyed and over 300 buildings burned. Over 2,800 suspected rioters were arrested and 126 police and firefighters were injured.

If I have to defend my family,possessions and even my liberal friends I want the best bang for my buck, no pun intended. The AR-15 will suffice and it has what I call 'awe' power. If a guy is defending his home with an old deer rifle or a double barrel shotgun you wonder if he even knows how to use either.. If the defender is armed with an AR-15 and a T-shirt that says
"Seriously, get off my Lawn" you kind of believe he does. If you are a looter with half a brain or just a mob bent on mayhem you will think twice about attacking his, him his family,and/ or property and go to the next home whose total defense turns out to be just an allusion.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#102812 Mar 17, 2013
just an allusion wrote:
<quoted text>
"Blah, blah, blah..'belief system'...blah, blah!"
Imma tryin' to 'believe' in them, but they just haven't provided anyone with ay justification whatsoever to validate our going into the Middle East!
All I'd need is one, just one WMD that they pulled outta there and I'd be satisfied. Oh, and I'm not talking about something that they took over there to say that they 'found', but one that they actually did find over there.
Just one...please?
Just one? No problem

May 2003-
A 155 mm artillery shell IED sits on the side of Saddam Highway, Baya neighborhood of western Baghdad.. A female bomb tech wearing a 100 lb Kevlar suit examines the device which has a digital clock taped to the shell that had stopped at 11:30. She attaches a disrupter, a counter charge designed to separate the main explosive shell from the smaller, electrically activated blasting cap connected to the clock. After exploding the device the two bomb technicians go to collect any remaining evidence. The shell had leaked an amber colored liquid which exposed both technicians to its contents,a deadly nerve gas called sarin. The tech closest to the liquid collapses and the female tech drags him away from the liquid. The female technician managed to plunge a valium, atropine, obidoxime syrette into her stricken, convulsing partner and another into her own thigh, saving both of their lives. The 155 mm shell contained one gallon of sarin. If the clock had worked properly death would have come quickly to 10,000 Iraqi civilians living around the airport and 3000 coalition troops stationed at nearby camp Victory. That the bomb failed to detonate was due to the malfunction of a cheap, ten dollar wristwatch.

Condensed from Seal Target Geromino, The Inside Story Of The Mission To Kill Osama Bin Laden ( 2011) p.137


Documents discovered in 2003 indicated that Iraq stockpiled 21,000 chemical warheads following the Iran-Iraq war, and during the period of UN sanctions..........
Since 2004, Al Qaeda has carried out at least one hundred chemical attacks on coalition forces in Iraq. Most attacks used "repurposed' chemical warheads from Saddam's arsenal- nerve gas and mustard gas. If one believes the WikiLeaks trove, it confirms that Al Qaeda is in possession of chemical weapons and they have been used against US troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan....The "no WMDs in Iraq" myth has been allowed to persist because the truth is more disturbing. Since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, U.S and coalition forces have located and destroyed more than 500 chemcal weapons. Most of these have been 155 mm artillery shells. Most contained varieties of the vesicant HD,mustard gas. VX, sarin, tabun, cyclosarin, including advanced binary weapons ,chemical aircraft bombs, mortar projectiles, sprayers,,and bulk produced agent have also been recovered and destroyed."

Chuck Pfarrar, former assault element leader of Seal Team 6, author of Seal Target Geromino, The Inside Story Of The Mission To Kill Osama Bin Laden( 2011) p139,141

Glad I could help.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#102813 Mar 17, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Just one? No problem
May 2003-
A 155 mm artillery shell IED sits on the side of Saddam Highway, Baya neighborhood of western Baghdad.. A female bomb tech wearing a 100 lb Kevlar suit examines the device which has a digital clock taped to the shell that had stopped at 11:30. She attaches a disrupter, a counter charge designed to separate the main explosive shell from the smaller, electrically activated blasting cap connected to the clock. After exploding the device the two bomb technicians go to collect any remaining evidence. The shell had leaked an amber colored liquid which exposed both technicians to its contents,a deadly nerve gas called sarin. The tech closest to the liquid collapses and the female tech drags him away from the liquid. The female technician managed to plunge a valium, atropine, obidoxime syrette into her stricken, convulsing partner and another into her own thigh, saving both of their lives. The 155 mm shell contained one gallon of sarin. If the clock had worked properly death would have come quickly to 10,000 Iraqi civilians living around the airport and 3000 coalition troops stationed at nearby camp Victory. That the bomb failed to detonate was due to the malfunction of a cheap, ten dollar wristwatch.
Condensed from Seal Target Geromino, The Inside Story Of The Mission To Kill Osama Bin Laden ( 2011) p.137
Documents discovered in 2003 indicated that Iraq stockpiled 21,000 chemical warheads following the Iran-Iraq war, and during the period of UN sanctions..........
Since 2004, Al Qaeda has carried out at least one hundred chemical attacks on coalition forces in Iraq. Most attacks used "repurposed' chemical warheads from Saddam's arsenal- nerve gas and mustard gas. If one believes the WikiLeaks trove, it confirms that Al Qaeda is in possession of chemical weapons and they have been used against US troops in both Iraq and Afghanistan....The "no WMDs in Iraq" myth has been allowed to persist because the truth is more disturbing. Since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, U.S and coalition forces have located and destroyed more than 500 chemcal weapons. Most of these have been 155 mm artillery shells. Most contained varieties of the vesicant HD,mustard gas. VX, sarin, tabun, cyclosarin, including advanced binary weapons ,chemical aircraft bombs, mortar projectiles, sprayers,,and bulk produced agent have also been recovered and destroyed."
Chuck Pfarrar, former assault element leader of Seal Team 6, author of Seal Target Geromino, The Inside Story Of The Mission To Kill Osama Bin Laden( 2011) p139,141
Glad I could help.
Did you actually bother to read anything in an unbiased and clear mind....this is just more of your bullshit....It was believe that Bush and Chenney's objective was to remove Hussien at any cost, and that that the US falsified evidence to effect that goal....go figure! The fact remains that no WMD's were ever found.....and there was no evidence by any to suggest what America was saying was the truth...on the contrary it clearly shows no WMDS no evidence produce of WMDS and still no WMDs...years after the US occupation....what are they all blind.....get real downhill you are just another Bush loving scaremonger....oh and one last thing, the only reason the yanks got the UN involved is because the people who needed to give their assent to a war with Iraq would only do it if their government had UN sanction.....so they got it any way they could....go back and stick your head in your toilet boil, you will learn more.
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#102815 Mar 17, 2013
just an allusion wrote:
<continued>
<quoted text>
The military would have been called in to wipe their asses if such had been the case!
Other than that this, again, goes back to the point you just subconsciously/accidentally made for RESTRICTING access to such weaponry by the general public because, had there never been any free ranging/unfettered access to such military/assault grade weaponry, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now and all of the civilian people and children who've been murdered with such weapons wouldn't be dead right now and leaving all of their parents and siblings and significant others and lovers and friends and associates missing them and wishing for just that one more day with them that they'll never have, again, but for the largely unfettered access to such weaponry by the general public.
<quoted text>
Sure! That's why we've all, as you've pointed out, the Constitutionally granted "right to bear arms" to protect ones' self and ones' home.
<quoted text>
While I am aware that certain fringe individuals scattered here and there have suggested, albeit even insisted that such were the case, no one at any level of our government capable of enacting such legislation has ever mentioned ANYTHING about rewriting the Constitutional language granting all the right to "keep and bear arms" as far as I am aware off, so Imma hafta right that off as just more verbal dribbage in the form of manipulative fear mongering designed to distract the reviewers' attention away from the ACTUAL issue at hand...That and to boost gun sales!
<quoted text>
AGAIN, no one (other than those right wingnuts, egocentric, maniacal corporate moguls, and fringe interests political pundits) have EVER mentioned ANYTHING about "disarming honest citizens"...EVER!
All I've ever heard anyone worth the time listen&#8204;ing to mention is restricting the general publics' unfettered access to military/assault grade weaponry and nothing more, so....
"The military would have been called in to wipe their asses if such had been the case!"

I don't know where you live, but there isn't much military around these parts. Air Force maybe. How long to respond?

I doubt if terrorists would apply for a gun permit. How does unfettered access help terrorists? They would have them, the public wouldn't.

The constitution doesn't [grant] rights. Rights occur naturally. The constitution prevents the government from infringing upon them. I would bet any attempt to rewrite them would cause an uprising. You'll have to continue to infringe upon them under the radar using the EPA, Agenda 21 initiatives, NDAA, and so on.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#102816 Mar 18, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you actually bother to read anything in an unbiased and clear mind....this is just more of your bullshit....It was believe that Bush and Chenney's objective was to remove Hussien at any cost, and that that the US falsified evidence to effect that goal....go figure! The fact remains that no WMD's were ever found.....and there was no evidence by any to suggest what America was saying was the truth...on the contrary it clearly shows no WMDS no evidence produce of WMDS and still no WMDs...years after the US occupation....what are they all blind.....get real downhill you are just another Bush loving scaremonger....oh and one last thing, the only reason the yanks got the UN involved is because the people who needed to give their assent to a war with Iraq would only do it if their government had UN sanction.....so they got it any way they could....go back and stick your head in your toilet boil, you will learn more.


Of course they were found and the poster asked for just one example which I thoughtfully provided .
//////////
By late 2003, even the Bush White House’s staunchest defenders were starting to give up on the idea that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

But WikiLeaks’ newly-released Iraq war documents reveal that for years afterward, U.S. troops continued to find chemical weapons labs, encounter insurgent specialists in toxins and uncover weapons of mass destruction.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/10/wikil...

Next!

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#102818 Mar 18, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course they were found and the poster asked for just one example which I thoughtfully provided .
//////////
By late 2003, even the Bush White House’s staunchest defenders were starting to give up on the idea that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
But Wiki Leaks’ newly-released Iraq war documents reveal that for years afterward, U.S. troops continued to find chemical weapons labs, encounter insurgent specialists in toxins and uncover weapons of mass destruction.
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/10/wikil...
Next!
Now the reality of what that story is about, clearly they state there are no WMDs read and weep you clueless twit.....

http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/20...

The US based it's attack on the fact that Hussein had WMDs and there was never any evidence found, unless you count the US's word for it?
Evidence folks, and no one but the yanks are claiming that they have seen it, WHY" because it was the Americans that gave those weapons of mass destruction to Iraq. Hands up to all who thought the Americans urgency to attack Iraq was to simply to cover their own arse?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15321...
The war in 2003 against Iraq was to go in and retrieve the arsenal and cache of chemical weapons that the yanks had given to Hussein to fight agains Iran.....which if left there would be found and would clearly expose the American government in their part in the genocide committed against the Kurd people.
Tip for the future yanks...if you are going to call someone a despot and murderer look closer to home if you can handle the truth....now downhill stop spewing your bullshit(that we know you yanks do so well) and concentrate on getting it right, for once?????
MalbarCACCA cant read

Saint Petersburg, Russia

#102819 Mar 18, 2013
Wow a pages and pages of shit copied and pasted from some website onto a forum... how inspiring.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#102822 Mar 18, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Now the reality of what that story is about, clearly they state there are no WMDs read and weep you clueless twit.....
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/20...
The US based it's attack on the fact that Hussein had WMDs and there was never any evidence found, unless you count the US's word for it?
Evidence folks, and no one but the yanks are claiming that they have seen it, WHY" because it was the Americans that gave those weapons of mass destruction to Iraq. Hands up to all who thought the Americans urgency to attack Iraq was to simply to cover their own arse?


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15321...
The war in 2003 against Iraq was to go in and retrieve the arsenal and cache of chemical weapons that the yanks had given to Hussein to fight agains Iran.....which if left there would be found and would clearly expose the American government in their part in the genocide committed against the Kurd people.
Tip for the future yanks...if you are going to call someone a despot and murderer look closer to home if you can handle the truth....now downhill stop spewing your bullshit(that we know you yanks do so well) and concentrate on getting it right, for once?????
You are a an ignorant idiot. Sarin gas is a weapon of mass destruction

The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found,” said Kimmitt, the chief military spokesman in Iraq.“The round had been rigged as an IED [improvised explosive device] which was discovered by a U.S. force convoy.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/4997808/ns/world_ne...


December 04, 2012

PENTAGON — The United States is warning there are signs that Syria might be assembling chemical weapons, including sarin gas. Sarin is among the deadliest chemical weapons - capable of quickly sickening and killing thousands of a people across a wide area.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#102823 Mar 18, 2013
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a an ignorant idiot. Sarin gas is a weapon of mass destruction
The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found,” said Kimmitt, the chief military spokesman in Iraq.“The round had been rigged as an IED [improvised explosive device] which was discovered by a U.S. force convoy.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/4997808/ns/world_ne...

A: Please take note, I clearly stated that the 2003 war was to go in and get the chemical WMDS that the yanks willingly gave the Iraqi's.....try and keep up, as I gave you a link which told you as much....might help if you read what I post.....else you will stay stupid.

December 04, 2012
PENTAGON — The United States is warning there are signs that Syria might be assembling chemical weapons, including sarin gas. Sarin is among the deadliest chemical weapons - capable of quickly sickening and killing thousands of a people across a wide area.
A: OMG and who the feck is going to fall for that one AGAIN.....you would have to be as dumb as dog shite or a yank.....IF the yanks believe that it is because like Iraq they are responsible for them having it.....but that is a big IF!
Ahsolemana

Australia

#102824 Mar 18, 2013
My gosh what a piece of shyte I am, why wont somebody throw a sausage up my hallway? It may clear the muck from between my ears and help get outside and meet people face to face. Thats if my open sewer breath does'nt chase them away
MalbarCACA hater

Kansas City, MO

#102825 Mar 19, 2013
just an allusion wrote:
<quoted text>
"The tiny victims were riddled with as many as 11 bullets. All were shot multiple times."
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/hunt...
None of the children involved in the Sandy Hook massacre survived the assault, let alone recovered from any of the injuries they received as a result of being literally peppered with bullets, EACH and EVERY one of them, so I'd have to conclude that it's pretty likely that that such a weapon/firing methodology IS accurate enough pretty damn "lethal".
Shut the f*ck up loser
MalbarCACA hater

Kansas City, MO

#102826 Mar 19, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>You are a an ignorant idiot. Sarin gas is a weapon of mass destruction
The Iraqi Survey Group confirmed today that a 155-millimeter artillery round containing sarin nerve agent had been found,” said Kimmitt, the chief military spokesman in Iraq.“The round had been rigged as an IED [improvised explosive device] which was discovered by a U.S. force convoy.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/4997808/ns/world_ne...
A: Please take note, I clearly stated that the 2003 war was to go in and get the chemical WMDS that the yanks willingly gave the Iraqi's.....try and keep up, as I gave you a link which told you as much....might help if you read what I post.....else you will stay stupid.
December 04, 2012
PENTAGON — The United States is warning there are signs that Syria might be assembling chemical weapons, including sarin gas. Sarin is among the deadliest chemical weapons - capable of quickly sickening and killing thousands of a people across a wide area.
A: OMG and who the feck is going to fall for that one AGAIN.....you would have to be as dumb as dog shite or a yank.....IF the yanks believe that it is because like Iraq they are responsible for them having it.....but that is a big IF!
Shut the f*ck up loser
MalbarCACA hater

Kansas City, MO

#102827 Mar 19, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
"I have NEVER seen ANY "hunting rifle" fire like THAT! So, you WERE saying...?"
That is an automatic. They are highly regulated and taxed by three federal acts of legislation, National Firearms Act 1934, Gun Control Act 1968, Hughes Amendment 1986. To legally own one you would probably have to find one manufactured before 1986 and pay a small fortune for it after an extensive background check. They aren't really legal to own now without a special license.
The legislation now proposed bans semi automatic, military looking rifles. They fire only as fast as you can pull the trigger like any other handgun or hunting rifle.
http://www.remington.com/product-families/fir...
I believe you may be confusing an automatic (machine gun) with a semi automatic.
I would agree with you on Bush. I don't know what that has to do with gun ownership though. Some people refer to the semi auto, so called, assault rifles as weapons of mass destruction to throw a little drama in the debate. That was the confusion there. I mistook your meaning.
Be back later, gotta go.
Shut the f*ck up loser
Beady

France

#102829 Mar 19, 2013
MalbarCACA hater wrote:
<quoted text>
Shut the f*ck up loser
Go search for it and piss off, IndoMauritian ti pilon IMPOSTOR (ID #2 hide myASS! Beady has a yellow mane.Derpy Hooves Carlsberg Guy Rainbow Dash Australia the greater of many evils ADELAIDEANs) Adelaidean Footscray, Australia MalbarCACA coward Bender BASTARD IMPOSTOR, IDENTITY THIEF, PLAGERIZE, SPAMMER, REAL AGITATOR,
TROUBLEMAKER, SmellyARSIE HINDUSTINK TRANNY, PIMP, NONCE, SHEMAlE FUCKTURD DANCING LADYBOY and TOPIX PAID TROLL you are exposed.

“Tilt my hat at the sun”

Since: Jun 12

And the shadows they burn dark

#102830 Mar 20, 2013
Proposed US assault weapons ban might fail.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-03-20/us-assa...

Since: Feb 13

United States

#102831 Mar 20, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Now the reality of what that story is about, clearly they state there are no WMDs read and weep you clueless twit.....
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/20...
The US based it's attack on the fact that Hussein had WMDs and there was never any evidence found, unless you count the US's word for it?
Evidence folks, and no one but the yanks are claiming that they have seen it, WHY" because it was the Americans that gave those weapons of mass destruction to Iraq. Hands up to all who thought the Americans urgency to attack Iraq was to simply to cover their own arse?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15321...
The war in 2003 against Iraq was to go in and retrieve the arsenal and cache of chemical weapons that the yanks had given to Hussein to fight agains Iran.....which if left there would be found and would clearly expose the American government in their part in the genocide committed against the Kurd people.
Tip for the future yanks...if you are going to call someone a despot and murderer look closer to home if you can handle the truth....now downhill stop spewing your bullshit(that we know you yanks do so well) and concentrate on getting it right, for once?????
Well lets put it this way, Saddam Hussein himself bragged that he had wmd's, and he threatened to use them. What would you have the usa to do, wait and see, wait until he killed thousands? And if the usa would have waited, and if he had wmd's and used them, then you ahomana, would be the first person on here saying,'those dumb yanks should had done something, they knew saddam was threating his neighbors'. You know you would.
BTW, you buddy saddam DID use wmds in the iran-iraq war, thats a fact. He did use poison gas on the kerds, thats a fact. So why wouldnt someone believe him?
You're one stupid, self centered, ignorant, two-faced hipocrite. You're a shame and disgrace to not only austraila, but to every westerner on the planet.
You should have been aborted.

Since: Mar 13

Ashburn, VA

#102833 Mar 20, 2013
Sex chat????

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