the Identity of Macedonians

May 11, 2007 Full story: Hellenic News of America 47,008

“Macedonians", they proceed as such with the haphazard actions of re-naming their two airports "Alexander the Macedonian”

THE IDENTITY OF MACEDONIANS By NIKOS MARTIS, Former Greek Government Minister, President "Macedonian Hestia" The Skopjeans adhere persistently to their usurped constitutional name "Macedonia", because they want ... via Hellenic News of America

Full Story
Makedonikos Agonas

Boca Raton, FL

#11598 Jun 6, 2008
yoda wrote:
<quoted text>
Well some of them beleive that he was Serb or Mijak, and he was king of Albanians , Epirus and Macedon, that his father was writing in cirylic letters that can be seen at the Hilandar (serb monastri) on Mt. Athos
Well some others claim that Columbus was Greek!!:))
There are people fantasizing all over the world...
yoda

Skopje, Macedonia

#11599 Jun 6, 2008
Makedonikos Agonas wrote:
<quoted text>
Well some others claim that Columbus was Greek!!:))
There are people fantasizing all over the world...
And my answer to them is :
&fe ature=related
Makedonikos Agonas

Boca Raton, FL

#11600 Jun 6, 2008
It sounds like a pretty song! thanks Yoda!

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#11601 Jun 6, 2008
Makedonikos Agonas wrote:
<quoted text>
Well some others claim that Columbus was Greek!!:))
There are people fantasizing all over the world...
Oh what a fun one can find in here!
I need a strong black coffee to understand all of this historical news, wow!

By the way good morning everyone on the forums!
It's only 8:30AM here :)
Alex

Rutherford, NJ

#11602 Jun 6, 2008
Megas Alexandros
-Alexander the Great (Greek: &#913;&#955;&#941; &#958;&#945;&#957; &#948;&#961;&#959; &#962; &#959; &#924;&#941;&#947; &#945;&#962; or &#924;&#941;&#947; &#945;&#962; A&#955;&#941;&#958 ;&#945;&#957;&#948 ;&#961;&#959;&#962 ;,[1] Megas Alexandros; July 20 356 BC – June 10 323 BC),[2][3] also known as Alexander III of Macedon (Greek: &#913;&#955;&#941; &#958;&#945;&#957; &#948;&#961;&#959; &#962; &#915;' &#959; &#924;&#945;&#954; &#949;&#948;&#974; &#957;) was an ancient Greek[4][5] king (basileus) of Macedon (336–323 BC). Born in Pella, Thessaloniki...Greece
Vergina Sun
-Vergina Sun, was unearthed in 1977 during archaeological excavations in Vergina, in the northern Greek province of Macedonia, by Professor Manolis Andronikos. He discovered it on a golden larnax in the tombs of the kings of the ancient kingdom of Macedon.-http://en.wikipedia.o rg/wiki/Vergina_Sun

Nothing Slavic about this
yoda

Skopje, Macedonia

#11603 Jun 6, 2008
I like the refrein : Unite unite Europe,(even the Balkan :)
But still my favorite is :
&fe ature=related
yoda

Skopje, Macedonia

#11604 Jun 6, 2008
and check what economist is saying about us:
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/display...
yoda

Skopje, Macedonia

#11605 Jun 6, 2008
Macedonian Games wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh what a fun one can find in here!
I need a strong black coffee to understand all of this historical news, wow!
By the way good morning everyone on the forums!
It's only 8:30AM here :)
Good morning NJ
yoda

Skopje, Macedonia

#11606 Jun 6, 2008
ili ovaa beshe hit na vremeto :
&fe ature=related
Makedonikos Agonas

Boca Raton, FL

#11607 Jun 6, 2008
yoda wrote:
and check what economist is saying about us:
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/display...
Well to be honest Yoda I can't see the similarities between today's Vardar Macedonia and Belgium. I really am sorry; I wish I could see them.:(((
yoda

Skopje, Macedonia

#11608 Jun 6, 2008
ili nesto totalno porazlicno:


kantri :)

Since: Jun 08

Location hidden

#11609 Jun 6, 2008
yoda wrote:
<quoted text>
Good morning NJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =w0YH-s4jmCUXX
Good morning Yoda, thanks for the beautiful songs, nice selection you've got there!
How is the weather in Skopje? Still hot?
Makedonikos Agonas

Boca Raton, FL

#11610 Jun 6, 2008
yoda wrote:
ili nesto totalno porazlicno:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =NiwcOaaRo1YXX
kantri :)
Do you like country, Yoda?
Makedonikos Agonas

Boca Raton, FL

#11611 Jun 6, 2008
yoda wrote:
and check what economist is saying about us:
http://www.economist.com/world/europe/display...
The fundamental difference that blocks the road of FYROM to "belgianization" is the fact that in Belgium you have two ethnic communities that are "equally" Belgian: the Walloons and the Flemish. None of them claims to be "ethnic Belgian", they accept that such a claim is absurd.

In FYROM though the two most populous ethnic communities, the Albanians and the Slav Makedonci, are not considered equally Macedonian. The Slav Makedonci are considered "ethnic Macedonians" while the other ethnic Albanians. Until this practice changes and the ruling elite at Skopje accepts that in today's FYROM, that occupies the area known as Vardar Macedonia, all people are equally Macedonian clashes and hardships will continue or even escalate, as it happened back in 2001.

For this to happen, the Slav Makedonci have to comply with the fact that all people living in today's Greek, Bulgarian and Vardar Macedonia are equally Macedonian, REGARDLESS OF THEIR ETHNICITY. In effect, the Slav Makedonci should use an ethnic determination for themselves, like e.g. Slav-Macedonians or Macedonian Slavs, similar to the one applied to Macedonian Albanians.

Let's hope that this will happen soon enough.

“UNITED MACEDONIA”

Since: May 08

SOLUN - REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA

#11612 Jun 6, 2008
Documents of the Continued Existence of Macedonia and the Macedonian Nation for a period of over 2500 years

What follows are documents that speak of the continued existence of Macedonia and of the Macedonian nation through the last 25 centuries. Macedonia is clearly distinguished from Greece (Hellas), Thrace, Illyria, Bulgaria, Serbia, and the Macedonians are likewise distinguished as distinct nation from the Greeks, Thracians, Illyrians, Bulgarians, Serbs, Albanians, as nation which continued to exist and survive trough the centuries ( makedonika.org ).

500 B.C.- 500 A.D.

Macedonia and the Macedonians as distinct nation in the works of the ancient Greek, Roman, and Jewish historians, as well in the works of the modern German, French, English, American historians.

586 A.D.

From the "Miracles of St. Demetrius of Salonika, I ": "...For if one was to imagine them in a heap, not only the Macedonians gathered in Salonika... Certainly he who inspired the Macedonians with courage..." Mirac. I, 13, p.1285-14; 1313

758-759 A.D.

From the Chronographia of Theophanes the Confessor "That year Constantine plundered the Sclavinii throughout Macedonia and subjugated the rest." Theoph., I, p.430, 21-22.

From the Chronographia Tripertita by Anastasius Bibliothecarius: "In the eighteenth year of his reign, Constantine enslaved the Sclavinii of Macedonia and he subjugated the rest." A. B., p.282, 20-21.

8th Century

From Strabonos Epithomatus: "And now, in that way almost all of Epirus, Hellada, the Peloponnese and Macedonia have also been settled by the Skiti-Slavs." C. Muller, Geographi graeci minores, Paris 1882, p.574.

“UNITED MACEDONIA”

Since: May 08

SOLUN - REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA

#11613 Jun 6, 2008
Linguistic Evidence

In questioning the significance of the use of Greek by the ancient Macedonians we need to sort out some of the linguistic history of the Macedonians. Firstly, the language of the original Macedonians, whatever it was, existed long before Macedonia became a powerful state. This is before the time of the great kings Philip II and Alexander the Great. The name "Macedones" originated many centuries earlier, and probably came from the "real" Macedonian language. If the Macedonian language was recognized as Greek, and understood by Greeks, you would expect that this was the language used by the great Macedonian kings in a formal or legal context. But it was not.

We know with some certainty that Attic Greek, which came from much farther south (around the Athens area) and was being used in other parts of the world as a trade language, was used more and more as the language of state and used also in Alexander's multi-cultural army. No linguist accepts that this language was the original Macedonian. So we have clear evidence that the Greek used by the Macedonians was a new language. Therefore one cannot argue that the use of this language proves any linguistic associations between the original Macedonians and Greeks.

Many scholars have concluded that the ancient Macedonian language was not a Greek dialect and that it was more or less related to the languages of Macedonia's northern neighbors, the Illyrians and the Thracians. These scholars include Muller and Mayer, writing in the nineteenth century, and Thumb, Thumb-Kieckers, Vasmer, Kacarov, Beshevljev, Budimir, Pisani, Russu, Baric, Poghirc, Chantraine, Katicic, and Nerosnak, writing in the twentieth. Here attention will be given to sources more readily accessible to those who want to inquire further.
Makedonikos Agonas

Boca Raton, FL

#11614 Jun 6, 2008
FYI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Macedoni ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_II_of_Mac ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_the_Gr ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Cyril

The mainstream established viewpoint about Macedonia is given below. You can easily verify that by looking it up at mainstream sources like e.g. Wikipedia.

- Ancient Macedonia or Macedon for short. A Greek or, at least, voluntarily Hellenized, kingdom around Pella in modern day Greece’s territory. Macedon was much smaller than today's geographical area of Macedonia. Their military success against the Persian Empire marked the beginning of the Hellenistic era in antiquity, during which the Hellenic civilization and language spread to the whole of the then known world.

- Modern day Macedonia. A geographical area, like e.g. Europe or the Balkans, inhabited by many ethnicities and shared by three nations: the statelet with capital at Skopje, Bulgaria and Greece.

Correspondingly, the geographical area of Macedonia is subdivided mainly in three territories: Vardar, Pirin (Bulgaria) and Aegean (Greece). I think that even the ultra-chauvinists in Skopje accept this fact. The Aegean-Greek part is the largest corresponding to 51%. The Vardar part occupied by the Skopje state corresponds to around 35%. Finally the Pirin-Bulgarian one corresponds to the remaining 14%.

Now let's come to the hot issue of ethnicities. The modern-day Macedonian ethnicities include Greeks, Albanians, Bulgarians, a Slavic population identifying themselves as Makedontsi and some smaller fractions of Serbs, Turks, Vlachs etc.

The Slav Makedontsi are ethnically, or at least linguistically, very close to Bulgarians. For example, all mainstream sources state that the language of the Slav Makedontsi, the so-called Makedonski, are MUTUALLY INTELLIGIBLE with Standard Bulgarian. Otherwise, the Slav Makedontsi belong to the ethnic group of Southern Slavs and the majority is Orthodox.

Taking into account these facts, which as already said are MAINSTREAM ACCEPTED (see Wikipedia for example), I think that:

1) All people of Macedonia, regardless of their ethnicity or the part of the area (Vardar, Pirin or Aegean) they live in, have an undeniable right to be called Macedonian. In effect, the persistence of the Slav Makedontsi to reserve this right exclusively for themselves is RACIST, PROVOCATIVE and DISCRIMINATING. Here it must be mentioned that this Slavic population hardly makes up 30% of the Macedonians. What about the rights of the 70% majority?

2) The multi-ethnic character of Macedonia makes the term meaningful only in a geographical sense. Then, why the Slav Makedontsi want to create confusion over who the Macedonians really are?

2) The Skopje state cannot be called 'simply' Republic of Macedonia just like the state of South Africa cannot be called 'simply' Africa. Reasons of both ethnological and geographical common sense make such a claim absurd!
KanPresian

Bulgaria

#11615 Jun 6, 2008
Macedonian until Death wrote:
Documents of the Continued Existence of Macedonia and the Macedonian Nation for a period of over 2500 years
What follows are documents that speak of the continued existence of Macedonia and of the Macedonian nation through the last 25 centuries. Macedonia is clearly distinguished from Greece (Hellas), Thrace, Illyria, Bulgaria, Serbia, and the Macedonians are likewise distinguished as distinct nation from the Greeks, Thracians, Illyrians, Bulgarians, Serbs, Albanians, as nation which continued to exist and survive trough the centuries ( makedonika.org ).
500 B.C.- 500 A.D.
Macedonia and the Macedonians as distinct nation in the works of the ancient Greek, Roman, and Jewish historians, as well in the works of the modern German, French, English, American historians.
586 A.D.
From the "Miracles of St. Demetrius of Salonika, I ": "...For if one was to imagine them in a heap, not only the Macedonians gathered in Salonika... Certainly he who inspired the Macedonians with courage..." Mirac. I, 13, p.1285-14; 1313
758-759 A.D.
From the Chronographia of Theophanes the Confessor "That year Constantine plundered the Sclavinii throughout Macedonia and subjugated the rest." Theoph., I, p.430, 21-22.
From the Chronographia Tripertita by Anastasius Bibliothecarius: "In the eighteenth year of his reign, Constantine enslaved the Sclavinii of Macedonia and he subjugated the rest." A. B., p.282, 20-21.
8th Century
From Strabonos Epithomatus: "And now, in that way almost all of Epirus, Hellada, the Peloponnese and Macedonia have also been settled by the Skiti-Slavs." C. Muller, Geographi graeci minores, Paris 1882, p.574.
My lost brother only as geographical population in the last 2000 years.What Strabon says "Epirus, Hellada, the Peloponnese and Macedonia" so then we have Epirci,Peloponesci as a nation????????
And after 8th century?
Show proof of nation Macedonia NATION man not people living in this area.And then we'll see....nothing
Makedonikos Agonas

Boca Raton, FL

#11616 Jun 6, 2008
KanPresian wrote:
<quoted text>
My lost brother only as geographical population in the last 2000 years.What Strabon says "Epirus, Hellada, the Peloponnese and Macedonia" so then we have Epirci,Peloponesci as a nation????????
And after 8th century?
Show proof of nation Macedonia NATION man not people living in this area.And then we'll see....nothing
Hello KanPresian. Try Bulgarian with him, he will probably understand better, I think...
KanPresian

Bulgaria

#11617 Jun 6, 2008
http://www.historyofmacedonia.info/document.h...

586 A.D. >From the "Miracles of St. Demetrius of Salonika, I ": "...For if one was to imagine them in a heap, not only the Macedonians gathered in Salonika... Certainly he who inspired the Macedonians with courage..." Mirac. I, 13, p.1285-14; 1313

This passages is deliberately taken out of the context. By Macedonians the author means the inhabitants of the old region Macedonia (see this map) and more precisely the Hellenized Romanoi (Romei in Bulgarian) who at that time fought against the Slavs whose descendants nowaday Macedonians are in fact.

758-759 A.D. >From the Chronographia of Theophanes the Confessor "That year Constantine plundered the Sclavinii throughout Macedonia and subjugated the rest." Theoph., I, p.430, 21-22.

This does not prove the existance of a Macedonian ethnos. Macedonia was settled by the Slavs (Sclavi in Greek) and was called Sclavinii (lands of the Slavs).

8th Century >From Strabonos Epithomatus: "And now, in that way almost all of Epirus, Hellada, the Peloponnese and Macedonia have also been settled by the Skiti-Slavs." C. Muller, Geographi graeci minores, Paris 1882, p.574.

The Skiti-Slavs are probably a mix of Slavo-Bulgarians. The Slavs settled all around those regions and assimilated the Bulgarians of Khouber who conqered the field of Pelagonia (end of the 7th century) and even tried to take Salonika (Solun). The authors of that time referred to the Bulgars as sciti (Scythians) because they came from the land the ancient Scythians had originally inhabited (the regions north of the Black Sea).

821-823 A.D. >From the letter of Michael II to the honorable Ludwig: "Thomas...having gathered our barges and dromon, had the opportunity to arrive in (some) parts of Thrace and Macedonia." Mansi, Michaelis Belbi et Theophilii....Florentinae, 1759

Macedonia here is the Byzantine theme of Macedonia (the region around Adrianople and Philipopolis). Thrace is the theme norht of the Marmara and Aegean Seas. Thomas was everywhere described as a Slav and not as a "Macedonian". The inclusion of this passage as evidence for the existence of a "Macedonian" ethnos only proves the stupidity of those who did that.

What more to say Makedonsko chado,milo pile zabludeno.

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