Amanda Knox: What if she's innocent?

Jan 30, 2008 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Seattle Post-Intelligencer

“The picture that emerges from the statements of the men and women who knew Meredith and her friends is one of an extended group.”

By Candace Dempsey . Since I first called murder suspect Amanda Knox innocent until proven guilty , I've become calm about death threats. via Seattle Post-Intelligencer

Comments
1,641 - 1,660 of 2,923 Comments Last updated Jun 30, 2014

“what does it all mean?”

Since: Apr 09

somewhere in Bavaria

#1713 May 23, 2013
jlm43 wrote:
<quoted text>
OK I've read a little of what guede says , and I can see straight through it. He is not a sophisticated man or a good at lying at all. "black man found, black man guilty" lol. really?. Jesus what a fool. I suppose i have to remain open minded about this too, but I don't think we will ever get any sense out of him. Just sounds like babble to me.
So the knife. I must admit . Part of my turn around to think AK and RS are innocent is the business about the DNA on the knife being some type of starch. Is it MK's DNA or is it starch? I don't understand. good idea to take the handle off though. seems very obvious.
Well, actually...in the first trial, it was the DEFENSE that wanted the handle taken off so the knife could be examined thoroughly and the prosecution and judges turned down the request. I wonder why. On IIP we have photos of the forensic evidence being stored in a messy freezer, together with various foodstuffs. How could contamination NOT set in? So what if a picogram or two of Meredith's DNA was on the knife? Given the careless and frivolous manner in which the police handled the evidence, it is not surprising that they may have found a few particles of Meredith's DNA, or Berlusconi's, or Hannibal Lecter's, or Julius Caesar's, or Romulus and Remus, or....
But DNA is a very complicated subject. From TV shows we often get the impression that it is a simple thing to match a sample of someone's DNA with a test result, and so determine with absolute certainty whether someone was present at a crime scene or not. Working with DNA in the real world is much more difficult, which is why they pay those DNA experts so much money. Here is a suggestion:
The discussion on the thread "Maths on Trial" at IIP, with the guilter Leila Schneps, author of the book titled "Math on Trial" is very revealing. Keep in mind that it is Leila herself, who has posted for years at PMF under the name "Thoughtful" who is speaking, trying to answer questions posed by our DNA experts. You can find it by going to the index page, then click Injustice in Perugia Public Forum-Amanda Knox Case, and the Math on Trial thread appears, all in the upper left corner. You will find that on IIP guilters are treated with civility, and discussions are educational and enlightening, which is not what you will find on those other sites.

“The ability to reason is good”

Since: Apr 10

North Adams, MA

#1714 May 23, 2013
Mariah wrote:
<quoted text>
So you think you know why people think Amanda is guilty? Are you a mind reader or do you know every "guilter" personally? I haven't thought about Amanda being sex crazy or a devil worshiper even though something like that has been written. I have other reasons why I find her and Raffaele very likely guilty of a murder. I can skip the crazy stuff that media puts out there thank you very much. Can you?
Did I ever say I knew how guilters believe Amanda is guilty? No, however I did make a statement on how some people believe she is guilty based on media spins on absurd accusations of her being a sexual deviant and a devil worshiper. Looking back at these posts their are some people who believed such things because it appealed to these people. Sex sells, Mariah and the media turned this case into a witch hunt for the longest time, and "some" people bought it because they listen to whatever the media says, and the craziness of the story is what "some" people wanted to hear. It does not matter how bull these accusations were, people still brought such extremes to this case because of the crazy appeal it had onto them. I am sure you have your reasons on why you believe Amanda Knox is guilty, but I was just stressing a point that "some" not all people believed she was guilty because the media painted a dark picture of her. Some people would rather here Mignini's version of this case than truth, just adding nonsense and assumptions without doing any proper research.

For the record, isn't it a bit hypocritical that you are just assuming that I know how the guilter mind works? I find it interesting that you pre-assumed that I was directing this statement towards every guilter, that is a very myopic world view and I really suggest you do not take things to heart.

“what does it all mean?”

Since: Apr 09

somewhere in Bavaria

#1715 May 23, 2013
Slayer wrote:
Amazon book review section is full of butt-licking sycophants operating under multiple names posting 5-star reviews for AK's disgusting book -- how PATHETIC!!!
Poor gompertz, just keep spreading the lies -- good little propaganda puppy!
Slayer, you really are becoming more and more unhinged. I recommend Tai Chi, or maybe Yoga to restore a more positive balance and promote oneness with the spiritual universe.
It's not the reviews, but the sections called "Product details" and "More about the author" that tell the rankings.
Incidentally, I have not yet posted a review, since I haven't had time to read the book yet. There is a lot more to life than this case, as you might find if you took my advice and practiced some Eastern Wisdom.

“what does it all mean?”

Since: Apr 09

somewhere in Bavaria

#1716 May 23, 2013
tarble wrote:
The internet and groupthink coincide with one another, as the effects the internet has on our minds is still unknown, but what seems to be evident is that entire communities of people tend to be swallowed in by groupthink rather than actually taking the time to do their own research on a subject such as the AK case. Alot of guilters are swayed by the old media spin that Amanda was a sexual deviant as well as a devil worshiper to this very day and refuse to take in any facts. The refuted lies that the media used to demonize AK and RS have much more appeal than the simple truth. The guilters make their convictions based on gossip and convictions rather than facts. It is really sad to see society downplay to these extremes, people would rather listen to what the juicier scoop is rather than take the time to do research on this case.
Furthermore the guilters on this forum who try to complicate matters and create their own conclusions because the simplest answer is too simple for their tastes, craving a juicy controversy rather than the facts.
I have been studying the articles on Groupthink since you brought up the subject recently. The various forms of Groupthink, their symptoms and causes, are very relevant to understanding the guilter phenomenon, as I now realize. On IIP, there has been much discussion of confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance, and other phenomena that can be analyzed in terms of fallacies in reasoning on an individual level, but Groupthink has not been mentioned much. Perhaps it is the fact that so many of the IIP members are rather left-leaning in their ideology that makes them less attentive to irregularities in collective functions.
However, the constant tendency at IIP to list reasons for guilter behavior are unfruitful. It should be apparent that, whatever the individual pathology at work, whether ethnic hatred of blue-eyed girls, or underestimation of the effect of corruption in media or in law enforcement, these motives coalesce in the group pathologies until the original motive is eclipsed. It is possible to see this process right on this thread,if we start with the earliest entries, from 2008, and work our way up to the present.

“The ability to reason is good”

Since: Apr 10

North Adams, MA

#1717 May 23, 2013
gompertz wrote:
<quoted text>
I have been studying the articles on Groupthink since you brought up the subject recently. The various forms of Groupthink, their symptoms and causes, are very relevant to understanding the guilter phenomenon, as I now realize. On IIP, there has been much discussion of confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance, and other phenomena that can be analyzed in terms of fallacies in reasoning on an individual level, but Groupthink has not been mentioned much. Perhaps it is the fact that so many of the IIP members are rather left-leaning in their ideology that makes them less attentive to irregularities in collective functions.
However, the constant tendency at IIP to list reasons for guilter behavior are unfruitful. It should be apparent that, whatever the individual pathology at work, whether ethnic hatred of blue-eyed girls, or underestimation of the effect of corruption in media or in law enforcement, these motives coalesce in the group pathologies until the original motive is eclipsed. It is possible to see this process right on this thread,if we start with the earliest entries, from 2008, and work our way up to the present.
It is important to look back at the earliest posts to understand how the media had an impact on how some of the present guilters have come up with their conclusions. I have noticed that alot of judgement on these earlier posts were sculpted by the "sex crazed" devil worshiping spin that the media used. It is also come to my attention that people tend to be more attracted to a story like this if there is a crazy spin such as those things. Some people would rather cling to these far-fetched fables than doing any sort of research and the connection to bandwagon hate seems to stem from these long since refuted claims.

People have a right to their own judgments but if they are listening to only bias and crazy spins, rather than doing any research they are letting their judgment be clouded with someone elses opinion, and that could lead to groupthink.
Mariah

Oulu, Finland

#1718 May 24, 2013
Tarble, I have read many articles (and watched videos) about this case. From the Us media too where they many times defend Amanda. I haven't even made up my mind completely about who is guilty and who is not. And like I said I try to keep an open mind. There are some people who believe everything the press prints I've noticed that too but how many, I don't know.
Mariah

Oulu, Finland

#1719 May 24, 2013
And you also have to take into consideration what the Knox pr-campaign has done to people's mind and Amanda's and Raffaele's own stories (or lies). People are easily manipulated.
Slayer

Sylacauga, AL

#1720 May 24, 2013
gompertz wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not the reviews, but the sections called "Product details" and "More about the author" that tell the rankings.
Incidentally, I have not yet posted a review, since I haven't had time to read the book yet. There is a lot more to life than this case, as you might find if you took my advice and practiced some Eastern Wisdom.
Your advice on life nor health isn't needed, nor solicited, so keep it to yourself.

FYI - the Amazon current book ranking is quite dismal given the extreme promotion of the book by Harper Collins. In less than one month it fell from high ranking in the 40's to well over 260 now -- all in less than one month. Publisher's Weekly has called its sales 'underwhelming.' Although I've seen a press release that claim 750,000 books were printed, only approximately 36,000 have been sold thus far -- not too good!

Since sales are banned in Great Britain, and most of Europe there are very few kindle copies being purchased in English. While it is being sold in Germany, it's sold very few copies, even though a high profile interview with Knox during prime time should have kick-started a sales push well before now.
Slayer

Sylacauga, AL

#1721 May 24, 2013
gompertz wrote:
<quoted text>
I have been studying the articles on Groupthink since you brought up the subject recently. The various forms of Groupthink, their symptoms and causes, are very relevant to understanding the guilter phenomenon, as I now realize. On IIP, there has been much discussion of confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance, and other phenomena that can be analyzed in terms of fallacies in reasoning on an individual level, but Groupthink has not been mentioned much. Perhaps it is the fact that so many of the IIP members are rather left-leaning in their ideology that makes them less attentive to irregularities in collective functions.
The most obvious example of 'groupthink' happening in this case is occurring on that 'propaganda inspired' AK Fan Club web site known as IIP.

You people troll pro-victim sites and glean completely valid arguments against the innocence of AK and turn them around 180 degrees. You just did this recently: pro-victim sites cite inappropriate blood money gains by AK, then you claim Kerchers are behaving despicably for seeking money via civil suit against AK and that this has nothing to do with justice. Just one example!
Slayer

Sylacauga, AL

#1722 May 24, 2013
gompertz wrote:
<quoted text>
Incidentally, I have not yet posted a review, since I haven't had time to read the book yet. There is a lot more to life than this case, as you might find if you took my advice and practiced some Eastern Wisdom.
Here's some advice from me: don't waste your $20 (including shipping) the price is dropping like a rock. I may wait for someone to resell their copy for $3. I understand it's a real snooze -- but maybe it will show more of the lies and contradictions told by AK, who never shuts up.

Don't get me wrong Amanda, keep talking, just keep talking. Just like Jodi Arias.
Slayer

Sylacauga, AL

#1723 May 24, 2013
Real interesting video re: DNA Knife -- AK groupies tried to get it banned from the web.

http://www.veoh.com/watch/v20570281d4MFw26Y...

“what does it all mean?”

Since: Apr 09

somewhere in Bavaria

#1724 May 24, 2013
Slayer wrote:
<quoted text>
Your advice on life nor health isn't needed, nor solicited, so keep it to yourself.
FYI - the Amazon current book ranking is quite dismal given the extreme promotion of the book by Harper Collins. In less than one month it fell from high ranking in the 40's to well over 260 now -- all in less than one month. Publisher's Weekly has called its sales 'underwhelming.' Although I've seen a press release that claim 750,000 books were printed, only approximately 36,000 have been sold thus far -- not too good!
Since sales are banned in Great Britain, and most of Europe there are very few kindle copies being purchased in English. While it is being sold in Germany, it's sold very few copies, even though a high profile interview with Knox during prime time should have kick-started a sales push well before now.
I didn't think you would take the advice. However, someday the realization will dawn on you that Quennell, Ganong, Vogt, Nadeau and Maresca have been lying from the beginning and then you might want to connect with that Inner Taoist Spirit with some deep breathing exercises and some Tai Chi.

Maybe the terrorist bombings and other major world events have diverted people's attention from Amanda's book. Or maybe all the silly people were disappointed to hear that she doesn't talk about the murder. I can imagine them saying, "You mean she didn't come clean???? That's so boring!" Yes. often truth is more boring than fiction.
Shez Not

Montclair, NJ

#1725 May 24, 2013
Shez Not

“what does it all mean?”

Since: Apr 09

somewhere in Bavaria

#1726 May 24, 2013
Slayer wrote:
Real interesting video re: DNA Knife -- AK groupies tried to get it banned from the web.
http://www.veoh.com/watch/v20570281d4MFw26Y...
Ah, yes, the famous DNA knife. This nonsense has been around for quite a while. Nice background music, gives it a touch of the dramatic. It even includes that ubiquitous photo of Raffaele with the meat cleaver. Out of all the photos they could find, that is the only one they keep showing again and again, as if the young student is perpetually condemned to be identified with that meat cleaver.
Now to the knife. Remarkably, the police officer unerringly focused on THAT particular knife, without any other guiding principe than his infallible intuition, and the feeling that it "looked like it had been cleaned with bleach." It is amazing how this officer's intuition is confirmed by the results of the subsequent investigation, same as Mignini's infallible intuitions...So the claim that the knife was scrubbed with bleach has entered into the folklore of the guilters as if it were true. Unfortunately, Conti and Vecchiotti thoroughly tested the knife, and found that IT HAD NOT BEEN CLEANED WITH BLEACH AT ALL!!!
Oh, dear! What is a guilter to do? If Conti and Vecchiotti say it was not cleaned with bleach, they will have to accept that, and give up their claim about the bleach, right? WRONG!!! The guilters will never, never admit they were wrong about anything. The story about the bleach is part of the guilter scripture and cannot be abandoned. Hence, the C & V results have to be questioned somehow. The only way to challenge Conti and Vecchiotti's results is to attack them, and accuse them of bias, or incompetence, or both. So the official guilter line is that Conti and Vecchiotti are friends of Raffaele's family, and thus not objective judges. Some alleged connection between them and Giulia Bongiorno, they claim.
Of course there is nothing unusual about the guilters attacking pro-innocence people, especially if they have professional credentials. Look at how they attack Chris Halkides, professor of biochemistry, when he appears on some website to present his professional opinion on DNA. They will claim he is an impostor, pretending to be a professor, who is trying to defend a murderer.
So the accusations continue to surface, thanks to the power of the Internet, and it takes genuine discernment not to be deceived.
Mariah

Oulu, Finland

#1727 May 25, 2013
No reason for an innocent person to explain herself like Amanda did. Why did she have to send the long e-mail after the murder to her family and friends? No point. She explains and explains because she _knows_ she has explaining to do. An innocent person just says what happened is awful and I had nothing to do with it.

I'm not saying everyone acts the same but still I find it very odd that she "doesn't remember" and explains so much, blames an innocent man and changes her alibi. And if she had some kind of trauma about the murder of her roommate then I think the defense team would have her tested with a psychologist. And marijuana normally doesn't affect people's memory as much as Amanda and Raffaele says it did. Just waiting for the new trial or the continuing of trial to them to display the evidence.
Mariah

Oulu, Finland

#1728 May 25, 2013
If Rudy was "the lone killer". Why would he throw Meredith's phones away? There is no reason to. She didn't know Rudy or hadn't talked to him. There was no point to Rudy to throw the phones away. It was someone else who did it.
Mariah

Oulu, Finland

#1729 May 25, 2013
Even if Meredith knew Rudy I don't think it has been shown that there was any evidence of Rudy's text messages or phone calls on her phones. I don't think Rudy stole the phones and then just threw them away (scared of being linked to the murder) when there wasn't anything valuable stolen from Meredith.. Why mobile phones.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#1730 May 25, 2013
darek wrote:
Amanda is SO guilty! Maybe her family is in some kind of denial and don't want to look objectively what has happened to her after she went to Italy but they better start seeing the truth...She just couldn't wait to go there and her sole reason to study so far from home was to have a wild sex life with all it's attachments and nobody close to her will ever know. She could maintain her " good girl " image at home. Maybe she was a nice girl before but she was just waiting to come out. She was tired of hiding her true wild side any more. And came out she did! With a vengeance for all this time she had to study in her room and work....She was like this crazy animal in Italy , that's why she only made it 6 weeks...the lion escaped from the cage and was caught shortly after. I have no doubt she will be convicted of something, I don't know how much they can prove her involvement but it's very clear she did it and probably very much enjoyed it too! She has this smirk on her face....I bet even after conviction her family will be saying: she is innocent, she is a good girl,etc... they are all blind because it hurts to see the truth, they don't want to see the real Amanda because it hurts, she deceived them all. I hope she will never see freedom again, next 50 years should be nothing but a misery for her as she left nothing but misery for Meredith family.
What's up the hate - someone molest you as child?
JLS1950

Seattle, WA

#1731 May 26, 2013
Slayer wrote:
I think you just answered your own question:'To show that is would have required three people to inflict those wounds.'
The types of wounds to the body, lack of defensive wounds support the argument. Attorneys chose to show photos b/c the actual evidence is more compelling and more persuasive.
This is one of the most persistent yet most ludicrous and insane arguments that keeps appearing in this case. Seriously: did Jodi Arias require "accomplices" in order to murder Travis Alexander?

Decades ago, my wife's former neighbor - a pregnant young housewife in her teens - was murdered in her own apartment by a utility meter reader. She was raped, strangled, and stabbed more than 40 times - then her body was stuffed into a closet.(Would Mignini say this suggested a female killer?) The same killer went on to kidnap, rape and strangle two more young women and to kidnap and rape a third who managed to escape - all over a period of only about 8 weeks. There were no defensive wounds, and no evidence that any victims were restrained by a third party. There was just one killer who was both determined and somewhat methodical and who intimidated his victims well enough from the very start that they complied with his demands until it was too late - except for the one.

The killer was caught because of the one escapee. Yet the murder of my wife's neighbor and childhood friend went unsolved for nearly 40 years, until DNA evidence linked the case to the killer serving a life sentence in prison. Confronted at last, he simply responded, "Yeah, I did her."

FORTY stab wounds with a kitchen knife makes the wounds to Meredith Kercher look like an accident with scissors by comparison - but there was never any question whatever of multiple assailants.

Among other known killers, Ted Bundy killed at least 30 women (some suspect as many as 100) without any assistance from any other person. Gary Ridgeway confessed to killing 48 women and is widely believed to have murdered others. He had no assistance. Kenneth Bianchi was involved in killing at least 10 women in CA along with his relative Angelo Buono - but he also single-handedly abducted, raped and killed two more women together in a single night's crime in WA.

And in 1966, Richard Speck single-handedly subdued, bound, raped and then one by one stabbed and strangled eight student nurses in a Chicago apartment over a period of hours.

Sadly, I could list many others.

The idea that there had to be more people involved in the murder of Meredith Kercher - either because of her 'extensive" wounds or because of any supposed inability of one man to subdue one woman in a tiny room - is simply ludicrous bordering upon the insane.
JLS1950

Seattle, WA

#1732 May 26, 2013
gompertz wrote:
Yes, those looking for "easy answers" will be attracted to the collection of LIES found on this link. It has been around for a while, deceiving the unwary and gullible. It must have taken some effort to assemble this material, surpassing in volume the ability of anyone to post a reply to all the lies in any reasonable amount of time. That tactic is sometimes called "blitzkrieg" and is employed also by Creationists to stifle debate with their inordinately long lists of "objections." Yes the article posted here, cleverly disguised to look like a Wikipedia article, can in fact be refuted, and has been refuted, point by point, by those with the time and dedication to do so. THose refutations can be found at the Injustice in Perugia website, where reason and evidence are the only weapons we need against blind hatred and superstition.
It is the sheer volume and professional appearance of these guilter sites that continues to nag at me that there must be some serious money behind them. Perhaps they are attracting click-through counts to paying ads, but I frankly doubt that that is enough. This is one of the reasons I continue to feel that the attack on Amanda Knox (clearly, she is the primary focus, with Raffaele only entrained as necessary to circumvent his alibi) has a large degree of covert State sponsorship. I used to call out guilter posters who used non-standard English grammar and word sequencing - directly accusing them of being employees of AISI/AISE (formerly SISMI). The results were often quite interesting and revealing - and did not put my suspicions to rest.

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

World News Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Islam Will Conquer Italy and the Entire West (Sep '10) 4 min Syriana 365,011
Ukraine Fears Invasion by Russia's Military 6 min Ethan Allen 61
LDS Apostle visited Tonga (Feb '14) 10 min pearl 11,863
Belgrade 11 min sugga daddy127 48
Evangelical Leaders Will Visit Israel To Show S... 14 min Trust Issues 1
Tragedy-hit Malaysia Airlines to slash 6,000 jo... 20 min joyoyoy 4
Mother Teresa Birthday Special: Top 10 quotes o... 21 min Mr Kavokian 1
Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel (Jun '08) 42 min J RULES 68,997
•••
Enter and win $5000
•••

World News People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••