Amanda Knox: What if she's innocent?

Jan 30, 2008 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Seattle Post-Intelligencer

“The picture that emerges from the statements of the men and women who knew Meredith and her friends is one of an extended group.”

By Candace Dempsey . Since I first called murder suspect Amanda Knox innocent until proven guilty , I've become calm about death threats. via Seattle Post-Intelligencer

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JLS1950

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#1569
May 8, 2013
 

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Slayer wrote:
Once again only claims made by you and your pro-Knox forces. You don't have an autopsy report, only Ron Hendry looking at a video shot long after the Scientific Police left the scene.
The video and the photographs were shot *BY* the "scientific" police.
Slayer wrote:
They were made in blood since it is the hemoglobin in blood that causes the luminol to glow.
Luminol does not react to hemoglobin, per se, but to IRON which is present in hemoglobin. Iron is also present in many soaps, in bathroom cleansers, and in BLEACH (as a stabilizer.) Luminol will always react to substances containing iron, and the reaction is indistinguishable from the response to blood. Luminol will even react to water stains where the water came from rusty pipes!

(Note that the primary way we know that there was no "clean-up with bleach" is that Luminol did not react to iron in latent bleach traces on the floor - as it absolutely would have had any part of the floor been mopped with bleach.)

The ONLY way to distinguish these various substances is to apply a confirmatory test such as tetramethylbenzidine (TMB) or certain other regents.

Patrizia Stefanoni testified under oath that she never performed these secondary tests on more than a handful of detected foot prints - which all tested negative - but stated under oath that she felt that the untested prints contained actual blood.(So why not test them?)

However, Stefanoni's actual work records written by her in her own had on the very day she was in the cottage - and both introduced at trial and documented in your precious Massei Report - clearly show that Stefanoni DID perform the TMB test ON EVERY SINGLE PRINT SHE FOUND WITH LUMINOL - and ALL of them came up NEGATIVE!

Yep! Right there in Massei!

Neither Knox nor Sollecito left ANY foot or shoe prints containing blood!
Slayer wrote:
Rudy Guede's footprints led from Meredith's room straight out the front door -- but you already know this.
No, Rudy's very unique Nike Outbreak 2 SHOE prints in Meredith's blood (left shoe only) lead from the area immediately outside both Meredith's bedroom and the shared bathroom with shower - down the common "hallway" and through the sitting area to the front door.

Rudy's bare FOOT prints (right foot only and in Meredith's blood) appear in the area between Meredith's door and the bathroom door, and also on the blue bathmat. They do not extend to the front door.

The print on the bathmat DOES NOT reflect Raffaele's clear "hammer toe", and DOES match Rudy's much longer great toe.
Slayer wrote:
You and the murderer's defenders have spent years coming up with a carefully crafted, coordinated pack of lies to cover for a murderer.
Not defending a murderer - defending two wrongly and maliciously accused innocent persons - and merely read with an open mind: something some people simply refuse to do.
Slayer wrote:
She will be re-convicted. She may not be returned, or she may skip the country and spend her the rest of her life running from justice. But Amanda Knox will always knows she is a murderer.
Given Italy's performance in this case, they may indeed restore her conviction. The do seem to be THAT STUPID and THAT INSECURE in themselves. But projecting your self-loathing upon external targets like Knox will NOT help you in the long run. You really need professional help with these feelings and self-directed anger.
Slayer

Sylacauga, AL

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#1570
May 9, 2013
 

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gompertz wrote:
<quoted text>
Then there is Lumumba,, who completely changed his story about police brutality with the prospect of a big payoff against Amanda.
Well, Lumumba has already been awarded a judgement against Amanda, remember? The question is: has Amanda paid the judgement?

[QUOTE who='gompertz"]
It is about you when you suggest that Nadeau and Vogt are "distinguished journalists" because they are multilingual.
[/QUOTE]

I don't have to 'suggest' anything. Barbie Nadeau is director of Newsweek's foreign bureau -- that's not a position for some slouch blogger the likes of Candace Dempsey. Vogt reports for many well-regarded publications including a major one in Seattle, WA. I've already cancelled my subscription to TIME Magazine ciing solely b/c of my opposition to Nina Burleigh's drivel.
gompertz wrote:
I also wonder about the tendency of many guilters to place absolute trust in the police.
Not just the police but the entire Italian justice system. All these people want to frame an innocent college student. Why?

I'm incensed with AK's supporters and their incessant need to spread lies about the case and the fact that there is REAL EVIDENCE AGAINST Amanda -- as long as that's happening I will continue to be here, as long as I damn well please or if Topix discontinues.

While I don't watch him, saw a youtube clip of Bill Mahr (sp?) advising AK that the next time Diane Sawyer asks her what's the most important thing for people to know about her -- her answer should have been: "that I didn't kill anyone!" Instead, AK answered -- "for the truth to come out!" for people to "reconsider me as a person."

Well AK -- that's what I;m trying to accomplish, getting the truth out about what you did -- in partnership with heoric websites -'True Justice for Meredith Kercher' and 'Perugia Murder File' aka 'Placing Meredith First.'
Slayer

Sylacauga, AL

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#1571
May 9, 2013
 

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JLS1950 wrote:
<quoted text>
Luminol does not react to hemoglobin, per se, but to IRON which is present in hemoglobin. Iron is also present in many soaps, in bathroom cleansers, and in BLEACH (as a stabilizer.) Luminol will always react to substances containing iron, and the reaction is indistinguishable from the response to blood. Luminol will even react to water stains where the water came from rusty pipes!
(Note that the primary way we know that there was no "clean-up with bleach" is that Luminol did not react to iron in latent bleach traces on the floor - as it absolutely would have had any part of the floor been mopped with bleach.)
You and those creeps from Innocence Projects have spent YEARS coming up with credible-sounding bullshit answers to all the reliable evidence in Massei -- and it's all bullshit!

You and these others who have spent five years of their lives trying to subvert justice, regardless of all your efforts, will not be in the Florence courtroom -- thank goodness!

AK is guilty, she will be re-convicted and then she needs to figure out if she wants to be a life-long fugitive or finally face up to what she did.

Italian justice system goes easy on those who confess and ask for forgiveness -- AK & RS have not, and until they do, they are in jeopardy of maximum sentences. Raffaele may find he doesn't feel so 'honor bound' any longer to Amanda, and may finally tell what happened. That's a story that will make it to the US, regardless of Gogerty-Marriott's choke-hold on the US media.

AK has 'performed' so poorly in these interviews -- SHE is still creating her own problems; doubts about her are all over, hell, AK is now part of comedy routines -- it's so DAMN OBVIOUS AMANDA IS A MURDERER!
innocent

United States

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#1572
May 9, 2013
 

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I think she is innocent.
Slayer

Sylacauga, AL

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#1573
May 9, 2013
 

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JLS1950 wrote:
<quoted text>
Boy!!! You sure got THAT right, loser!
Snap -- another insult -- it's just JLS1950, being JLS1950!
JLS1950 wrote:
Picked this up on another thread:
A U.S.court or the State Department would be unlikely to take up any extradition request from Italy, said Sean Casey, a former prosecutor who is now a partner at Kobre & Kim in New York.
He cited an extradition treaty between the United States and Italy that states: "Extradition shall not be granted when the person sought has been convicted, acquitted or pardoned, or has served the sentence imposed, by the Requested Party for the same acts for which extradition is requested."
WRONG CONCLUSION!'Requested' party is the United States -- and the 'Requested' party has NEVER tried, nor convicted, nor acquitted Amanda Knox! There's always some dumbass somewhere on the internet ready to support another dumbass claim -- all you have to do is look for it.
Slayer

Sylacauga, AL

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#1574
May 9, 2013
 

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When AK was in Capanne prison, the US Ambassador to Italy, David Thorne, visited her 3 times! Amanda never reported any incidents of poor treatment nor sexual harrassment to him nor any other visiting US or Italian officials, nor her own lawyers. Now she's claiming in her book she 'suffered' both.

Does she or her advisers not understand these claims she's making in her book are grounds for defamation?

David Thorne is the brother-in-law of current Secretary of State, John Kerry. Who will John Kerry believe, his brother-in-law or convicted liar Amanda Knox?
JLS1950

Redmond, WA

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#1575
May 9, 2013
 

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Slayer wrote:
WRONG CONCLUSION!'Requested' party is the United States -- and the 'Requested' party has NEVER tried, nor convicted, nor acquitted Amanda Knox!
Apparently Slayer is an internationally-renowned lawyer specializing in treaty law in her previous life.

"Requested party" in this case refers to the party whose extradition is requested: thus Amanda Knox. She was Tried, Convicted, Sentenced, served time in prison, was retried and acquitted, and was released for [excess] time served on the "calumny" charge. That fits the treaty language in three different ways.

If a qualified attorney in current practice quotes the language of the actual treaty and tells me that it prohibits extradition of a person for a crime for which the person has once been acquitted or has been previously convicted and for which prison time has already been served and the party released, then I think I will believe that person more than I will a dedicated guilter woman - neither licensed nor even trained as an attorney - like Slayer.
Slayer wrote:
There's always some dumbass somewhere on the internet ready to support another dumbass claim -- all you have to do is look for it.
Peter Quennell, Margaret "Peggy" Ganong and "Slayer" being three stunning examples!
Slayer

Sylacauga, AL

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#1576
May 9, 2013
 

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JLS1950 wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently Slayer is an internationally-renowned lawyer specializing in treaty law in her previous life.
"Requested party" in this case refers to the party whose extradition is requested: thus Amanda Knox. She was Tried, Convicted, Sentenced, served time in prison, was retried and acquitted, and was released for [excess] time served on the "calumny" charge. That fits the treaty language in three different ways.
As usual, you are wrong! In a treaty between two countries, there are two parties: 1) the 'Requesting Party' in this case Italy, and 2) the 'Requested Party' in this case the USA. Party is not the person or persons being requested -- your expert is wrong! And you can tell this idiot for me that he does not know what he's talking about.

Look for Mary Fan at University of Washington, since you're a local and ask her for her opinion, after all she's a legal expert on cross-border criminal proceedings.
JLS1950 wrote:
If a qualified attorney in current practice quotes the language of the actual treaty and tells me that it prohibits extradition of a person for a crime for which the person has once been acquitted or has been previously convicted and for which prison time has already been served and the party released, then I think I will believe that person more than I will a dedicated guilter woman - neither licensed nor even trained as an attorney - like Slayer.
Your 'qualified attorney' is clearly solely 'qualified' as a paid professsional liar!
Slayer

Sylacauga, AL

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#1577
May 9, 2013
 

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1984 Extradition Treaty between the USA and Italy

As for the avoidance of doubt jeopardy, Article I states -“The Contracting Parties agree to extradite to each other, pursuant to the provisions of this Treaty, persons whom the authorities of the Requesting Party have charged with or found guilty of an extraditable offense.”

So an offense shall be an extraditable offense only if it is punishable under the laws of both Contracting Parties by deprivation of liberty for a period of more than one year.

(There are other circumstances under the treaty when extradition will not be granted, but these do not apply to Knox. They concern political and military offences.)

Furthermore the 1984 Extradition Treaty recognizes (as do all such treaties) the validity and fairness of the contracting parties’ respective judicial systems. Such treaties would not be possible otherwise. The USA has already extradited its citizens (when it had to) to countries where, as here, an appeal acquittal has been overturned on further appeal, the original conviction has been re-instated, and the process then continues to another appeal. This is in recognition of the fact that in some systems the State has a right of appeal as well as the accused. What’s wrong with that?

Is all of this likely to change on account of Amanda Knox? Will the US decide it must re-negotiate all its treaties solely to protect the 'little angel?'
Slayer

Sylacauga, AL

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#1578
May 9, 2013
 

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JLS1950 wrote:
<quoted text>
However, Stefanoni's actual work records written by her in her own had on the very day she was in the cottage - and both introduced at trial and documented in your precious Massei Report - clearly show that Stefanoni DID perform the TMB test ON EVERY SINGLE PRINT SHE FOUND WITH LUMINOL - and ALL of them came up NEGATIVE!
Yep! Right there in Massei!
TMB and luminol have the same reactive process - reacting to the presence of blood. This is to do with the peroxidase like activity of heme. Dr Gino, Amanda’s DNA expert, was quoted by Massei giving the following evidence –“analyses performed with TMB on (blood) traces revealed by luminol give about even results : 50% negative, 50% positive.” In other words a TMB test following the application of luminol is only helpful in establishing the presence of blood. It does not exclude the presence of blood if the test is negative. It might be negative because the luminol has fully reacted the trace.
 
Where rust would come from no-one has yet determined and as for bleach it dissipates and, of course, the footprints and spots were discovered by luminol some six weeks after they were made. It is not possible anyway to obtain a human DNA profile from these substances, nor vegetables or fruit juice.
JLS1950 wrote:
No, Rudy's very unique Nike Outbreak 2 SHOE prints in Meredith's blood (left shoe only) lead from the area immediately outside both Meredith's bedroom and the shared bathroom with shower - down the common "hallway" and through the sitting area to the front door.
Rudy's bare FOOT prints (right foot only and in Meredith's blood) appear in the area between Meredith's door and the bathroom door, and also on the blue bathmat. They do not extend to the front door.
The print on the bathmat DOES NOT reflect Raffaele's clear "hammer toe", and DOES match Rudy's much longer great toe.
Rudy didn't have any shoes off -- so no bare footprint from him anywhere. There was no trace of Rudy in the smaller bathroom -- Rudy left his feces in the larger bathroom close to the front door.

The bloody bare footprint on the bathmat matches dimensions of Raffaele's foot exactly. You're just muddying the waters, like all defense experts do. Rudy's shoe prints show him exiting Meredith's room, picking up something in the sitting room and straight out the front door. IMPORTANT: There is no shoe print indication that Rudy turned and LOCKED Meredith's door! Wonder who LOCKED Meredith's door? An occupant of the cottage who stayed to clean up and stage a break-in.
JLS1950 wrote:
Given Italy's performance in this case, they may indeed restore her conviction. The do seem to be THAT STUPID and THAT INSECURE in themselves. But projecting your self-loathing upon external targets like Knox will NOT help you in the long run. You really need professional help with these feelings and self-directed anger.
Your insults are so desperate, they are becoming comical. But hey, I can always count on you for a good laugh! I just hope you don't do something awful like harming some innocent animal in your anger.
JLS1950

Redmond, WA

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#1579
May 9, 2013
 

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Slayer wrote:
<quoted text>
TMB and luminol have the same reactive process - reacting to the presence of blood.
The more I read your posts, Slayer, the more you sound like Henry Morris and Duane Gish, arguing that the Grand Canyon and all dinosaur fossils were created in Noah's Flood - which dinosaurs until then had been mankind's cuddly little pets - or that God just created light photons "in-flight" so that we could see stars and galaxies billions of light-years away which he had only created 6,000 years ago so that the real light had not had time to reach us yet (and red-shifted the photons too, just to "test our faith".

Except instead of expressing irrepressible and childlike faith in the one true God (albeit with presumptuous and arrogant pride and willful ignorance) you are worshiping the devil-baiting, Amanda-hating Mignini.

“what does it all mean?”

Since: Apr 09

somewhere in Bavaria

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#1580
May 10, 2013
 

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Slayer wrote:
Well, Lumumba has already been awarded a judgement against Amanda, remember? The question is: has Amanda paid the judgement?
Do you think Lumumba would have won anything if he had not first retracted his accusations of police brutality? The question is why you can't connect the dots.
Slayer wrote:
I don't have to 'suggest' anything. Barbie Nadeau is director of Newsweek's foreign bureau -- that's not a position for some slouch blogger the likes of Candace Dempsey. Vogt reports for many well-regarded publications including a major one in Seattle, WA. I've already cancelled my subscription to TIME Magazine ciing solely b/c of my opposition to Nina Burleigh's drivel.
Five years ago, Nadeau was a minor food critic. Her present success is due to her willingness to smear Amanda Knox. Sex sells, writing lies about sex sells even more, and displaying a lack of conscience gets you noticed. Once again, connect the dots.
Slayer wrote:
Not just the police but the entire Italian justice system. All these people want to frame an innocent college student. Why?
THat has been answered many times. Let me try again. The news of Meredith's murder spread quickly. The brutal nature of the murder was known to everyone in Perugia. Students started leaving town by the thousands. Perugia's economy would collapse in a hurry without those foreign students. The police felt pressed to solve the case as fast as possible. They immediately suspected Amanda because they found her behavior strange. Both Mignini and Giobbe have stated publicly that they were convinced of Amanda's guilt based entirely on their personal intuition, with no need to wait for forensic evidence. They announced "case closed" before any evidence had been collected. By the time Guede was identified, they could no longer admit their mistake without profound embarrassment. Saving face is very important over there, even more than in America, where travesties like this also occurs.(see Debra Milke, Kirsten Lobato)
THat at least is the short version. The long version can be found at the appropriate sources, as always.
Slayer wrote:
I'm incensed with AK's supporters and their incessant need to spread lies about the case and the fact that there is REAL EVIDENCE AGAINST Amanda -- as long as that's happening I will continue to be here, as long as I damn well please or if Topix discontinues.
While I don't watch him, saw a youtube clip of Bill Mahr (sp?) advising AK that the next time Diane Sawyer asks her what's the most important thing for people to know about her -- her answer should have been: "that I didn't kill anyone!" Instead, AK answered -- "for the truth to come out!" for people to "reconsider me as a person."
Well AK -- that's what I;m trying to accomplish, getting the truth out about what you did -- in partnership with heoric websites -'True Justice for Meredith Kercher' and 'Perugia Murder File' aka 'Placing Meredith First.'
Amanda's supporters are not the ones spreading lies. But no one is denying your right to post, nor my right to respond and try to correct all the misinformation emanating from TJMK and PMF.
Slayer

Sylacauga, AL

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#1581
May 10, 2013
 

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gompertz wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think Lumumba would have won anything if he had not first retracted his accusations of police brutality? The question is why you can't connect the dots.
I don't doubt that Lumumba may have gotten some bad treatment from the police after Amanda told them that Lumumba murdered Meredith. The murder was brutal after all. But police were suspicious of Knox and Sollecito from the first day, and already were tapping their phones; remember that part? This was long before Nov. 6-7th, 2007 when AK names Patrik, and she named him after the police told her Sollecito was no longer supporting her alibi. Sollecito told police that Amanda was not with him from 9 PM until 1 AM that night.

In fact, to this day, he's not denied that part of his statement to police not even during court testimony, but did write in his book that she was with him all evening. Why aren't you Groupies jumping all over Sollecito -- that's a dot YOU ALL need to connect.
gompertz wrote:
Five years ago, Nadeau was a minor food critic. Her present success is due to her willingness to smear Amanda Knox. Sex sells, writing lies about sex sells even more, and displaying a lack of conscience gets you noticed.
Nadeau was well-positioned at Newsweek long before AK murdered Meredith. Besides, yeah, I know sex sells, that's why AK has so much of it in her book.
gompertz wrote:
Both Mignini and Giobbe have stated publicly that they were convinced of Amanda's guilt based entirely on their personal intuition, with no need to wait for forensic evidence. They announced "case closed" before any evidence had been collected. By the time Guede was identified, they could no longer admit their mistake without profound embarrassment.
No, AK hung herself with her own changed stories, conflicting alibis, strange statements, and odd behavior. It was obvious to police and even Filomena the cottage burglary was staged, Other than an occupant of the cottage, who else would benefit by delaying finding Meredith in her locked bedroom. Plus AK told police Meredith always her door, while Italian housemate Filomena told police she rarely did.
gompertz wrote:
Amanda's supporters are not the ones spreading lies. But no one is denying your right to post, nor my right to respond and try to correct all the misinformation emanating from TJMK and PMF.
Well, at least you give me permission to disagree with you, I get the impression, JLS1950, would have me murdered for not accepting all the lies about AK.
Slayer

Sylacauga, AL

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#1582
May 10, 2013
 

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JLS1950 wrote:
<quoted text>
The more I read your posts, Slayer, the more you sound like Henry Morris and Duane Gish, arguing that the Grand Canyon and all dinosaur fossils were created in Noah's Flood - which dinosaurs until then had been mankind's cuddly little pets - or that God just created light photons "in-flight" so that we could see stars and galaxies billions of light-years away which he had only created 6,000 years ago so that the real light had not had time to reach us yet (and red-shifted the photons too, just to "test our faith".
My, my, don't you get snarky when you discover you and your Groupie expert were wrong about the extradition prospects for AK!
Rather than admit you were wrong, you start preaching at me. Why am I not surprised?!
JLS1950 wrote:
Except instead of expressing irrepressible and childlike faith in the one true God (albeit with presumptuous and arrogant pride and willful ignorance) you are worshiping the devil-baiting, Amanda-hating Mignini.
What does God have to do with AK's being guilty of murder? You are getting more desperate by the day...
JLS1950

Seattle, WA

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#1583
May 10, 2013
 

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Slayer wrote:
My, my, don't you get snarky when you discover you and your Groupie expert were wrong about the extradition prospects for AK!
Rather than admit you were wrong, you start preaching at me. Why am I not surprised?!
Treaty law does not and cannot override the Bill of Rights. It takes affirmative two-thirds votes in both houses of Congress and ratification in the legislative bodies of three fourths of the states to do that.
Slayer wrote:
What does God have to do with AK's being guilty of murder? You are getting more desperate by the day...
I won't even go there...
JLS1950

Seattle, WA

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May 11, 2013
 

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I was just reading Doug Preston's article "Burn Her At the Stake" on Slate. You can find the article easily, linked off of the Injustice In Perugia site, Recent News page, dated April 19.(No, the title is not advocacy: it is a quote from the vitriol directed at Knox.)

Doug brings up a behavior called "altruistic punishment", described by evolutionary biology, and demonstrated experimentally - I tend to assume by means of Functional MRI. Beyond that I will not try to repeat the explanation, but only suggest reading Doug's article.

Reflecting on what Doug describes so well, I can see the mechanism working in myself - currently on the defender side. My personal desire in this case leans toward wanting to "punish" the Perugini authorities: Giobbi, Mignini, policewoman Rita Ficarra, "Dr." Patrizia Stefanoni, et al. I feel so incensed over their conduct in this case that criticizing them even very harshly causes me actual pleasure - as also does harshly criticizing guilters. And so - applying the principles elucidated by Preston - I can see that the guilters also are obtaining "pleasure" from voicing harsh condemnation of Knox and her defenders.

Again, however, I see the hand of Cognitive Dissonance and individual responses to it at work here. I too started off in the "guilter" camp. I came upon this case during the height of my rage over the Janet Chandler cold case and the frankly inadequate trial verdicts in Holland, MI. That case really WAS all that Mignini claimed of this case and much worse with at least 20 men and women present and partying during the gang-rape and murder of this 23-year-old Christian college student - and despite all that knowledge it remained hidden for nearly 3 decades.

(I personally suspect that Giobbi, Mignini, et al. took their "crime theory" directly from the lurid news reports of the Chandler murder case.)

The jury verdicts in the case were handed down in Michigan on 1 Nov 2007 just at about the very hour that Meredith Kercher was bleeding to death in Perugia. And when I shortly thereafter read that an American college student was implicated in the rape and murder of another student in Italy, I went ballistic.

But again, people have very different responses when they discover that what they have staked themselves to as being true is contradicted by evidence of what is REALLY true. As descriptions of the Kercher murder and the Mignini "crime theory" began to spread, I saw that it all did not make sense. The Lumumba/Guede fiasco cast more doubt on the "crime theory" offered by accusing police and public minister. Then the blood, DNA and print evidence began to emerge, and I quickly saw that all my outrage about the murder was in fact directed at the wrong parties: there was one killer - a burglar - and police were conducting themselves as fools.

So I simply switched sides, and continued in my outrage and "altruistic punishment" of the deliberately unjust: the Perugini "Keystone Kops".

But many people are not able or at least not inclined to make that switch: once they have settled on an opinion and an outraged judgement of a matter, they will not and perhaps even cannot change. Their minds snap shut to "protect" them from the dissonant new evidence, while venting their outrage and hatred continues to stimulate the pleasure centers of their brain, giving them the endorphin-fueled "reward" they so desperately seek. They become "false-justice junkies".

I think this combination of "altruistic punishment", endorphin-fueled pleasure and reward, and cognitive dissonance responses especially where moderated by group or "peer" opinions, may well explain the phenomena of group or "mass" hysteria and also the mob action we have seen most recently on the Internet regarding this case.
JLS1950

Seattle, WA

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#1585
May 11, 2013
 

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I was just reading Doug Preston's excellent article, "Burn Her At the Stake", on Slate. You can find the article easily, linked off of the Injustice In Perugia site, Recent News page, dated April 19.(No, the title is not advocacy: it is a quote from the vitriol directed at Knox.)

Doug brings up a behavior called "altruistic punishment", described by evolutionary biology, and demonstrated experimentally - I tend to assume by means of Functional MRI. Beyond that I will not try to repeat the explanation, but only suggest reading Doug's article.

Reflecting on what Doug describes so well, I can see the mechanism working in myself - currently on the defender side. My personal desire in this case leans toward wanting to "punish" the Perugini authorities: Giobbi, Mignini, policewoman Rita Ficarra, "Dr." Patrizia Stefanoni, et al. I feel so incensed over their conduct in this case that criticizing them even very harshly causes me actual pleasure - as also does harshly criticizing guilters. And so - applying the principles elucidated by Preston - I can see that the guilters also are obtaining "pleasure" from voicing harsh condemnation of Knox and her defenders.

Again, however, I see the hand of Cognitive Dissonance and individual responses to it at work here. I too started off in the "guilter" camp. I came upon this case during the height of my rage over the Janet Chandler cold case and the frankly inadequate trial verdicts in Holland, MI. That case really WAS all that Mignini claimed of this case and much worse with at least 20 men and women present and partying during the gang-rape and murder of this 23-year-old Christian college student - and despite all that knowledge it remained hidden for nearly 3 decades.

(I personally suspect that Giobbi, Mignini, et al. took their "crime theory" directly from the lurid news reports of the Chandler murder case.)

The jury verdicts in the case were handed down in Michigan on 1 Nov 2007 just at about the very hour that Meredith Kercher was bleeding to death in Perugia. And when I shortly thereafter read that an American college student was implicated in the rape and murder of another student in Italy, I went ballistic.

But again, people have very different responses when they discover that what they have staked themselves to as being true is contradicted by evidence of what is REALLY true. As descriptions of the Kercher murder and the Mignini "crime theory" began to spread, I saw that it all did not make sense. The Lumumba/Guede fiasco cast more doubt on the "crime theory" offered by accusing police and public minister. Then the blood, DNA and print evidence began to emerge, and I quickly saw that all my outrage about the murder was in fact directed at the wrong parties: there was one killer - a burglar - and police were conducting themselves as fools.

So I simply switched sides, and continued in my outrage and "altruistic punishment" of the deliberately unjust: the Perugini "Keystone Kops".

But many people are not able or at least not inclined to make that switch: once they have settled on an opinion and an outraged judgement of a matter, they will not and perhaps even cannot change. Their minds snap shut to "protect" them from the dissonant new evidence, while venting their outrage and hatred continues to stimulate the pleasure centers of their brain, giving them the endorphin-fueled "reward" they so desperately seek. They become "false-justice junkies".

I think this combination of "altruistic punishment", endorphin-fueled pleasure and reward, and cognitive dissonance responses especially where moderated by group or "peer" opinions, may well explain the phenomena of group or "mass" hysteria and the mob action we have seen most recently on the Internet regarding this case.
Mariah

Oulu, Finland

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#1586
May 12, 2013
 

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I don't understand people who say "there is no evidence". Firstly, Amanda and Raffaele don't have solid alibis and changed their explanations of where they were on the night of the murder many times. Secondly, they were on the crime scene when the police came. Thirdly, their odd behavior after the murder, and don't tell me "everyone mourns differently". Also Amanda blaming an innocent man (and her excuse "they forced me to blame him" isn't an explanation).

There always doesn't have to be "sound" evidence against someone like hair, blood etc. There might be that kind of evidence also but they are not 100% certain right now so I'm not going to count them in this post. But even without them there are reasons to believe Amanda and Raffaele could have some part of the murder.(And my instinct is that it's very possible).

Italian police had reasons to suspect Knox and Sollecito. They wouldn't haunt young students for fun like Us media and citizens want to believe (also the other one is Italian himself). The line "There is no evidence" is bullshit and it's purpose is to try and distract people to believe their own understandings of the case.
Mariah

Oulu, Finland

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May 12, 2013
 

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I do not claim to know the truth like some here but I have a right to an opinion of the case, and right to analyze the weird behavior of Amanda and Raffaele because it's something that raises red flags. But I keep my mind open and try to select the truthful information of the case.
JLS1950

Seattle, WA

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May 12, 2013
 

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Mariah wrote:
I don't understand people who say "there is no evidence". Firstly, Amanda and Raffaele don't have solid alibis and changed their explanations of where they were on the night of the murder many times. Secondly, they were on the crime scene when the police came. Thirdly, their odd behavior after the murder, and don't tell me "everyone mourns differently". Also Amanda blaming an innocent man (and her excuse "they forced me to blame him" isn't an explanation).
There always doesn't have to be "sound" evidence against someone like hair, blood etc. There might be that kind of evidence also but they are not 100% certain right now so I'm not going to count them in this post. But even without them there are reasons to believe Amanda and Raffaele could have some part of the murder.(And my instinct is that it's very possible).
Italian police had reasons to suspect Knox and Sollecito. They wouldn't haunt young students for fun like Us media and citizens want to believe (also the other one is Italian himself). The line "There is no evidence" is bullshit and it's purpose is to try and distract people to believe their own understandings of the case.
I don't under stand why you think a weak alibi is proof of (especially an improbable) murder! Could YOU provide a detailed and provable alibi for that night had the murder happened in YOUR locale?

I don't understand why the behavior of a traumatized young girl in the middle of a foreign culture bears any significance at all on any question of guilt in such an improbable murder theory!

I don't understand why you think being the initial reporting party of a crime in your own home proves that your committed the crime yourself! Would YOU refuse to report a burglary because you might be accused of committing or "staging" it?(I mean - come on - Finnish police are better than that, aren't they?)

I don't understand why you think "unsound evidence" can be the basis of a trustworthy conviction in a case where there is an fact NO EVIDENCE OF ANY TYPE AT ALL! The fact is, it is the very lack of certain specific critical evidence that would HAVE to be there which proves beyond any shadow of doubt that AK and RS COULD NOT POSSIBLY have been "involved"!

And no, "there is no evidence" is not bullshit: it is simply the fact of the matter: critical evidence that would simply HAVE to be there - hair, prints (bloody and otherwise) DNA, defensive wounds on the attackers, etc.- IS PROVABLY NOT THERE AT ALL.

It is as if accusing that you drove drunk and were in a fatal high-speed collision - except there is not one scratch on your car and no evidence of any recent repairs!

"Oh, but she came home with slurred speech." "She kissed her boyfriend." "She had an unopened bottle of vodka." "She scrubbed her hands and then ate a breath mint." "She asked questions about her insurance three days later." None of it is "sound evidence" but let's just write you up and put you in jail anyway!

It is better at times like this to simply admit that one has been wrong from the beginning, and just give up. But some people seem incapable of doing that!

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