"Macedonia to recognize Kosovo"

Full story: B92 21,077
Macedonian Deputy PM Abdulahi Ademi expects Skopje to recognize Kosovo's unilateral independence next week. Full Story
Karmadh karderi

Albania

#51 Sep 26, 2008
spartan lacedaemonian wrote:
<quoted text>
Mario Bucari???
Bubullima??
Sorry is it me or your fault because i lost you...what do you mean? Who are they?!
I hope they are not the ones who i think you probably mean because we live in 2008 not 1821.
Again it's 2008!
he most famous of the “Suliots” Marko Bocari was born in the village “Sul” of “Janina” in 1790, member of a famous family of brave men like Kico Bocari, Kosta Dhimitri, Jorgji and also the great commander of the Revolution of 1821, Noti Bocari. Marko bocari is remembered for his heroism, his beauty but also for a literal work, the famous bilingual dictionary Albanian-Greek. Marko's father, Kico Gj. Bocari was married 3 times and had 18 children. Five of them died in their childhood. From his first marriage with Krisulla Papazoti he had Jani, Lena, Maria, Anastas and Marko. Kico Gj. Bocari was murdered in “Arte” in 1813 from Gjoko Baloka. During the time of the rebellion in 1821 Marko met with Gjoke Baloka and forgave for the common interest of the revolution him not seeking vengeance for his father's murder. According to Historical records the first inhabitants of “Sul”(Marko's birthplace) were soldiers of Scanderbeg. After Gjergj Kastrioti Skenderbeu's death about 200 albanian (arvanitas) warriors and their families, like the clan of Bocari, Xhevalasit etc formed the region of “sul” and fought against ottoman turks for their language and religion. the region of sul grew up after the first settlement and was populated by orthodox albanians (cam) that moved from their villages in “Cameria” to “Sul” of Janina in the 1500s to escape from ottoman captivity and who founded new villages with albanian names. the fact that the Suliots oare “cam” is comfirmed by the Englishman V.M. Lik who states “the origins of suljot are from Cameria, one of four branches of Albanian population”. while the scholar Cipollini writes “the suliots didn't know Greek at all. the language they used was Albanian, the dialect of Cameria”. Part of the suljot population, after Ali Pashe Tepelena captured the region, were deported to Corfuz and the other ionian islands.After Ali Pashe Tepelena was executed most of the “Suli” population fleed to the sacred mountain of Tomorr to escape from turkish executions and genocide. there they founded the villages of Shën Mëri, Shën Mitri, Dardhzezë, Sulki, Dushkë, Kushov, Janç, Tunjë etc, in the region of Sulova, near modern town of Gramsh
Karmadh karderi

Albania

#52 Sep 26, 2008
the suliot Marko Bocari wasn't only the most important hero of the greek revolution, celebrated for his courage and military skills, he was also a man interested in education and reading. Marko, along with Odise Andruco and Gjeorgjio Karaiskaqi were educated in the court of Ali Pashe Tepelena where they studied the political and military sciences. Marko helped Ali pashe Tepelena fight against the turks ottomans during the siege of “Janina” and after the fall of the “pasha” continued to fight against turks in the “Rumelia” (balcanic part of the turkish empire) with the center of his rebellion at “Mesollogjia”. Marko's dream was to educate the “suliots” to cast them out of their warrior's life without a future and to make them live in a free and just society.In the mean while Marko was concerned that education could make people lose some known characteristics that made the “suliot arvanitas” a particular popular figure that even not educated, poor and in bad life conditions, was still adorable. Marko wrote once to his son, Dhimiter, who lived at the time in Ancona, Italy: “I want you to study, but I want you also to have in your character the suliot heritage and to remain suliot forever, like your father did”. at the epoch of the great changes in the Balcan peninsula it was clear to Albanians that their virtute, their desire for freedom and the might of their swords weren't sufficient to have a better life, a better society. People's education was needed, this need was the main concern of the “arvanitas” who survived the 1821 Revolution. they in fact used to sell all their properties so their children could study. And by “studying” in that epoch was intended the studying of the modern greel language that was used at the time in many greek cities. But in fact the “arvanitas” rejected the life of foreign societies, their lies, their submission, their unfairness, their gossip etc. The arvanitar charachter made them desire always to be the first, to show the world their pride, courage and refusal to submission. And the arvanitas longed the education, but not the alienation of their culture and the lose of their individual and social traditional virtutes. This was Marko Bocari's concern and this concern he used to stress when he adviced his son. While Marko was imprisoned in the island of “Korfuz” in 1909 he learned Greek and wrote the famous “bilingual dictionary of people's Greek and simple Arvanitas (Albanian) language”.
Karmadh karderi

Albania

#53 Sep 26, 2008
Marko wrote it himself with the help of his father, Kico Bocari, his uncle Noti Bocari and his father in law Kristaq Kallogjeri from Preveza. This dictionary was the idea of the French consul Pukëvili, like the French diplomatic claimed, and it was supposed to help Albanian suliots learnGreek and communicate with greeks. No matter what the french diplomatic claimed or other versions of this matter, Marko Bocari is a hero who was concerned about education and culture, who wrtote an important litteral work and he can be celebrated as the first writer of the simple dictionary greek-Albanian. The Dictionary of Marko Bocari was a consequence of the situation in Greece, where the Arvanitas had abandoned the weapons and they had the need to fit in the civic society, not an easy goal for them. The dictionary is particulary important because it has many albanian expressions in the “Cameria” dialect and this dictionary was also used as a mean to bring Albanians and greeks nearer. one of the other reasons of the creation of this dictionary is the fact that at the time in vaste areas of the Balcans the official trade language was Greek. so the arvanitas were forced to learn greek if they wanted to trade in the Balcans. The Albanian language in fact wasn;t at the time known to many non-albanians, because the Albanian population had lived for centuries in remote and inaccessible mountains to escape from invaders' persecution, and they used to lead an extremely isolated life away from any interrelation with other nations. so the Albanian language conserved it's purity and it's antient form, and was spoken exclusively by Albanians, a “National Language” indeed, but it didn't evolve and didn't adopt new words that were required by the technological development and changes in the world's society, and besides that it was not known by the many foreign people who visited the Baltans at the time of the Ottoman captivity. And the hero Marko Bocari with great courage and hard work wrote the first greek-Albanian dictionary when he was 19 with the original title “Fjalori dygjuhesh romaiko_Arberishtja e thjeshte” that was compoused of 111 pages, 1496 Albanian words, and 1701 Greek ones. The original book can be found at the National Museum of Paris with the code Grec 251 number of the page 244, and was donated to the museum by the consul Pukëvili in 1819
Karmadh karderi

Albania

#54 Sep 26, 2008
spartan lacedaemonian wrote:
<quoted text>
Mario Bucari???
Bubullima??
Sorry is it me or your fault because i lost you...what do you mean? Who are they?!
I hope they are not the ones who i think you probably mean because we live in 2008 not 1821.
Again it's 2008!
the most famous of the “Suliots” Marko Bocari was born in the village “Sul” of “Janina” in 1790, member of a famous family of brave men like Kico Bocari, Kosta Dhimitri, Jorgji and also the great commander of the Revolution of 1821, Noti Bocari. Marko bocari is remembered for his heroism, his beauty but also for a literal work, the famous bilingual dictionary Albanian-Greek. Marko's father, Kico Gj. Bocari was married 3 times and had 18 children. Five of them died in their childhood. From his first marriage with Krisulla Papazoti he had Jani, Lena, Maria, Anastas and Marko. Kico Gj. Bocari was murdered in “Arte” in 1813 from Gjoko Baloka. During the time of the rebellion in 1821 Marko met with Gjoke Baloka and forgave for the common interest of the revolution him not seeking vengeance for his father's murder. According to Historical records the first inhabitants of “Sul”(Marko's birthplace) were soldiers of Scanderbeg. After Gjergj Kastrioti Skenderbeu's death about 200 albanian (arvanitas) warriors and their families, like the clan of Bocari, Xhevalasit etc formed the region of “sul” and fought against ottoman turks for their language and religion. the region of sul grew up after the first settlement and was populated by orthodox albanians (cam) that moved from their villages in “Cameria” to “Sul” of Janina in the 1500s to escape from ottoman captivity and who founded new villages with albanian names. the fact that the Suliots oare “cam” is comfirmed by the Englishman V.M. Lik who states “the origins of suljot are from Cameria, one of four branches of Albanian population”. while the scholar Cipollini writes “the suliots didn't know Greek at all. the language they used was Albanian, the dialect of Cameria”. Part of the suljot population,
kosta

Tiran, Albania

#55 Sep 26, 2008
Makedonikos Agonas wrote:
<quoted text>
The only Slavs that ever posed a serious threat against Greeks were the Bulgarians, who actually are half-Slavs.
Bulgars are not slavs..they are turkic people by origin.They stealed the name "bulgar" and "slav" ,and when they come in europe started to become christian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgars

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#56 Sep 26, 2008
Anstand wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL...Alien theory...
Ok we must think logically.Which is right behavior?
1-Turks burned all Izmir because they entered city.They had to burn all city for what?Even we think they burned Greeks houses,but mostly Greeks escaped with their army.So did they burn Turkish houses?Why did not they burned all churches?Today we have so old churches.
2-Greeks burned city because they lost city.They needed take revenge and they burned Turkish houses.Even Turkish army did not arrive to Izmir.They were civil victims.We can not talking about old mosques like churches.You can see if you can travel your Smyrni.
Again i would wish to lie to me and know the truth but i am afraid that some people from the other side of Aegean ignore the real facts but how is it possible? I mean...those burning scenes are even taped! Yes! there are not only photos taken from those tragic moments but some people were filming those scenes with those old cameras cameramen had at beginning of previous century! And don't tell me that you don't know this too!

The story is like this very briefly: Greek Army lost the final battles near Ankara. This happened around August 1922. After that the Greek front collapsed. The news came after about a week in Smirni and to the whole West Coast of Turkey(Ionian Coast). Irregulars neo-Turks called "Chets" came into the city before Greek Army main units arrive from their retreat. And they started to burn everything simply because they were irregulars and they were not controlling by anyone. Of course historical evidences show to us that the expatriation of Greeks of the whole Ionian Coast was known by Attturk Kemal or even guided by him personally.

So the answer is simple , irregulars Turks with the possible help of the newly formed Turkish State under Kemal's personal orders burned Smirni to the ground and all the Hellenes communities of the West Coast so nothing could be left intact to remind them the past so they could never come back everyone who would might survive by the killings!

Every successful-satanic made plan is always very simple in its design.
Makedonikos Agonas

Boca Raton, FL

#57 Sep 26, 2008
But Karderi:
How come that Ali Pasha an Albanian was fighting against the Suliotes who you also claim to be Albanian?
:)
kosta

Tiran, Albania

#58 Sep 26, 2008
keeping u informed wrote:
<quoted text>Alexander the great was half Greek-half Albanian you Slavo-Bulgar!!!
thank u.
u are right.Today "macedonians" have nothing to do with ancient macedonians.They are slavs..it was jsut yugoslavian chauvinism and propaganda who started to call them "Macedonians".School ars believe that macedonians were an mix of thracians(today vlachs)& illyrians(today albanians).There is also the legend about aleksander the great..but unfortunately is only in albanian language.

http://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leka_i_Madh
Makedonikos Agonas

Boca Raton, FL

#59 Sep 26, 2008
kosta wrote:
<quoted text>
thank u.
u are right.Today "macedonians" have nothing to do with ancient macedonians.They are slavs..it was jsut yugoslavian chauvinism and propaganda who started to call them "Macedonians".School ars believe that macedonians were an mix of thracians(today vlachs)& illyrians(today albanians).There is also the legend about aleksander the great..but unfortunately is only in albanian language.
http://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leka_i_Madh
That's why this Slavic people cannot claim to be True Macedonians.
Makedonikos Agonas

Boca Raton, FL

#60 Sep 26, 2008
kosta wrote:
<quoted text>
Bulgars are not slavs..they are turkic people by origin.They stealed the name "bulgar" and "slav" ,and when they come in europe started to become christian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgars
I agree that Bulgars were not Slavic. However, modern Bulgarians are. That's why I called them half Slavs. The other half is Turkic as you correctly put it!
Most of the Slav-Macedonians of FYROM are mostly of Bulgarian descent, too.

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#61 Sep 26, 2008
Karmadh karderi wrote:
<quoted text>
the most famous of the “Suliots” Marko Bocari was born in the village “Sul” of “Janina” in 1790, member of a famous family of brave men like Kico Bocari, Kosta Dhimitri, Jorgji and also the great commander of the Revolution of 1821, Noti Bocari. Marko bocari is remembered for his heroism, his beauty but also for a literal work, the famous bilingual dictionary Albanian-Greek. Marko's father, Kico Gj. Bocari was married 3 times and had 18 children. Five of them died in their childhood. From his first marriage with Krisulla Papazoti he had Jani, Lena, Maria, Anastas and Marko. Kico Gj. Bocari was murdered in “Arte” in 1813 from Gjoko Baloka. During the time of the rebellion in 1821 Marko met with Gjoke Baloka and forgave for the common interest of the revolution him not seeking vengeance for his father's murder. According to Historical records the first inhabitants of “Sul”(Marko's birthplace) were soldiers of Scanderbeg. After Gjergj Kastrioti Skenderbeu's death about 200 albanian (arvanitas) warriors and their families, like the clan of Bocari, Xhevalasit etc formed the region of “sul” and fought against ottoman turks for their language and religion. the region of sul grew up after the first settlement and was populated by orthodox albanians (cam) that moved from their villages in “Cameria” to “Sul” of Janina in the 1500s to escape from ottoman captivity and who founded new villages with albanian names. the fact that the Suliots oare “cam” is comfirmed by the Englishman V.M. Lik who states “the origins of suljot are from Cameria, one of four branches of Albanian population”. while the scholar Cipollini writes “the suliots didn't know Greek at all. the language they used was Albanian, the dialect of Cameria”. Part of the suljot population,
Ok i was suspicious to be honest that you would speak about Greek revolution in 1821.
Look, nobody underestimates the offer of Arvanites on the contrary they are some of the most important elements of this State formation when the new Greek State begun 170 years ago. Those Ethnic groups have integrated so far in Greek society that they are part of Greek core now. Try to think about it, they fought for a Greek State 170 years ago! Try to imagine their National consciousness now! They are strong Greeks.

But this leads us all to the conclusion how great Greece is! Greece absorbs different cultures and many elements and make them become a part of the Nation core! This still happens even today! Isn't this a marvelous and a unique social and International politics phenomenon? Greece absorbs different ethnic groups too and make them fight for her! And this without oppression like some bad people say but with their own free will.

That's a phenomenon...right? Don't you agree?
Don't you think that everyone by that time wanted to fight for the Greek idea?
Karmadh karderi

Albania

#62 Sep 26, 2008
Makedonikos Agonas wrote:
But Karderi:
How come that Ali Pasha an Albanian was fighting against the Suliotes who you also claim to be Albanian?
:)
Ali Pasha was first An Otoman pupet in the first step of his ruling, when he believed that he was strong enought to be indipendent he started two wrong wars

1)with Arvanitas suliots and with other Albanian leaders instead of making alliance.
2)started the war against the Sultan with the result of his decapited head.
kosta

Tiran, Albania

#63 Sep 26, 2008
Makedonikos Agonas wrote:
<quoted text>
That's why this Slavic people cannot claim to be True Macedonians.
well yes..USA ,with the FYROM name issue,is just keeping the TITO rhythm.They dont care too much about history.If Tito called them "Macedonians",it was just to put Yugoslavia borders till in Thesaloniki ,but from the other side USA is just bcz of anti-greek politic ,and nothing more...But the only fools are the actual "fyromians"..you cant create an identity and nation,based in lies and propaganda.But i dont understand...greece is fighting only for the name or also for the "Macedon" identity.??

lol!! i have read on this forum about Homer slavic scripts...hahaa...that is funny.
Karmadh karderi

Albania

#64 Sep 26, 2008
spartan lacedaemonian wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok i was suspicious to be honest that you would speak about Greek revolution in 1821.
Look, nobody underestimates the offer of Arvanites on the contrary they are some of the most important elements of this State formation when the new Greek State begun 170 years ago. Those Ethnic groups have integrated so far in Greek society that they are part of Greek core now. Try to think about it, they fought for a Greek State 170 years ago! Try to imagine their National consciousness now! They are strong Greeks.
But this leads us all to the conclusion how great Greece is! Greece absorbs different cultures and many elements and make them become a part of the Nation core! This still happens even today! Isn't this a marvelous and a unique social and International politics phenomenon? Greece absorbs different ethnic groups too and make them fight for her! And this without oppression like some bad people say but with their own free will.
That's a phenomenon...right? Don't you agree?
Don't you think that everyone by that time wanted to fight for the Greek idea?
this give you the right to scream about Albanians Terrorists, ALb terorist scum ,etc etc , when your heroes are of Albanian descendance and are not my words but words of your Historian . And what Albanian get from this what we had done in the past for you , just a bunch o Greek spiting in ALbanian name forgetting who gived you to be free.

Since: Jul 08

Limassol, Cyprus

#65 Sep 26, 2008
Makedonikos Agonas wrote:
The medieval Roman Empire of the Greeks
Interesting stuff.
Here is some more:
BBC Documentary, Michael Wood in the footsteps of Alexander the Great.
Watch the videos here:
http://tinyurl.com/3oggkq
A new part of my site called Overwhelming Evidence contains overwhelming evidence...see here:
http://themacedonianquestion.blogspot.com/200...
I will be adding more links once i get the time.
Take a look at the official website of the FYRoM church here:
http://www.mpc.org.mk/English/default.asp
Now click on the first link located on the top right side to view a website that talks about the new and apparently improved FYRoM theory on the Rosetta Stone.
kosta

Tiran, Albania

#66 Sep 26, 2008
spartan lacedaemonian wrote:
<quoted text>

That's a phenomenon...right? Don't you agree?
Don't you think that everyone by that time wanted to fight for the Greek idea?
it wasnt USA who gave freedom to France.But were the ally force...we all were under ottomans,right?? and for liberation of greece didnt fought only Greeks,but also we albanians that u greeks insult us today.we fought and we gave to greece independence....i dont know what hapen after 1821..but in those years we had an common albanian-greek state...
Yiannakis etc

Australia

#67 Sep 26, 2008
Selim wrote:
<quoted text> Maqedonia will recognize Kosova...Greece no. Thats is the line. Greece help Servia.
Yes Selim, Yes, FYRoM will support Kosovos independence, but as always the FYRoMians expect the same.

A matter of "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours"

Never mind the truth, the history, the implications. Just another case of FYRoMs insecurities in losing the support of nations they were to believe would be supporting their illegitimate claims to a name that they are deceitful in portraying!

Oh well - keep touting FYRoM the numbers are dwindling, the days are nigh.

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region-article.ph...

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#69 Sep 26, 2008
Karmadh karderi wrote:
<quoted text>
this give you the right to scream about Albanians Terrorists, ALb terorist scum ,etc etc , when your heroes are of Albanian descendance and are not my words but words of your Historian . And what Albanian get from this what we had done in the past for you , just a bunch o Greek spiting in ALbanian name forgetting who gived you to be free.
The offer of Arvanites and the absorb of other ethnic groups too are not theories but something well known years now. I knew it myself but without any details. But as i said before those people were the first that defended Greek idea because Greece was the only "candidate" State by that time. The only future state that had formed a National Ideology. Is this something wrong? No it is not. But you see you are confusing some things. The fact that groups who fought really hard for that and integrated to Greek society from the beginning, it doesn't mean that they would have anything to do with today's Balkan situation.
Try to differentiate the fight for freedom and justice with terrorism or the fight for hurting someone just because you hate without any particular or specific reason..

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#70 Sep 26, 2008
kosta wrote:
<quoted text>
it wasnt USA who gave freedom to France.But were the ally force...we all were under ottomans,right?? and for liberation of greece didnt fought only Greeks,but also we albanians that u greeks insult us today.we fought and we gave to greece independence....i dont know what hapen after 1821..but in those years we had an common albanian-greek state...
Again , try to differentiate and distinguish the fighting for freedom and justice with terrorism and the fight for hurting someone just because you hate without any particular or specific reason..

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#71 Sep 26, 2008
Anstand wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you show me a link about video's or pic's?(if you know a link or links,or how can i find?)
And Turkish Chetes(or guerillas)were so weak,they could not attack to strong army,even if they escape.Because they did not have any modern weapon's.I mean Greek army did not need main army their reinforces beat chetes easily in cities.
I don't believe to Turks burned city.Because there was no reason for Turks.
Ataturk never wanted see Izmir in flames.Because Izmir was Turkish city,i mean Turks were majority.
Look at your post please.
If Turkish were the majority how would it possible then for a "bunch of Greeks" to burn the whole city to the ground? Would you mind?! We live in 2008 we can't believe fairy tales or at the Santa Claus ! For God's sake!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

World News Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Weight loss helps erectile dysfunction, improve... (Aug '13) 3 min unnakpepe777 13
LDS Apostle visited Tonga (Feb '14) 7 min Dana Robertson 27,144
Islam Will Conquer Italy and the Entire West (Sep '10) 7 min Baron44 392,640
Kuwait, Bahrain sign three MoUs, educational pr... 41 min MOMIN ANSARI 1
Where is Santa right now? 2012 NORAD Santa trac... (Dec '12) 45 min John gentes 9
Filipino family wants US Marine in local jail d... 51 min Josefa Ortiz Iloilo 10
Reuters Poll: Russia to Plunge Into Recession i... 59 min Avenger 12
More from around the web