France: Islamists seeking to avenge death of Muslim shooter

Apr 6, 2012 Full story: www.usatoday.com 228

France's interior minister says some Islamist groups in France want to avenge the death of a Muslim radical, who the government says was responsible for the killing of seven people in a shooting spree in the country's south ...

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Since: Mar 12

Vauréal, France

#46 Apr 8, 2012
Thunder-Girl wrote:
<quoted text>
LIAR!!! allah is a pagan moon god. How dare you insult Jews and Christians you deceiver!!
Just the truth, as it happens. Contrarily to jews, they also believe that Jesus is the messiah - but not to Trinity. Allah is the arab word for God, just as Dieu is in French. French muslims, use the word Dieu for Allah indiscrimanely
ronan

UK

#47 Apr 8, 2012
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
Just the truth, as it happens. Contrarily to jews, they also believe that Jesus is the messiah - but not to Trinity. Allah is the arab word for God, just as Dieu is in French. French muslims, use the word Dieu for Allah indiscrimanely
In fact, Jews, Christians and Muslims should work together to eradicate the extremism each religion harbours among its fanatic followers. But that would mean respect for other religions and abandoning any attempt at supremacy. As it is, each of the 3 religion pretends to be the "true" one, and more or less dismiss the others.
There is a lot of common ground in the 3 Abrahamic religions that share the same fundamental beliefs and also some philosophy.
Belief in one God creator, after-life, sins, salvation, duty to others, charity are common in the 3 religions.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#48 Apr 8, 2012
YoavProudDhimmi wrote:
<quoted text>
But there is no proof that the God exists...
I think the fact that most Jews are secular is what makes me proud to be Jewish...
Religion is silly
When one is killed under the banner of secularism is the victim any less dead? the government of Iraq under Saddam Hussein was a secular government.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

#49 Apr 8, 2012
YoavProudDhimmi wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess I don't understand the need for spirituality in the 21st century. The Enlightenment was all about replacing religious dogma with rational thought.
If we used rational thought, a French Muslim would see a French Jew as his neighbour and compatriot, but dogma teaches him to see the Jew as his eternal enemy. Same for the radical settlers in the West Bank that use violence against the Palestinians.
Religion is the source of most of the world's conflicts.
In 1888,the atheist Friedrich Nietzsche predicted that the twentieth century would be the bloodiest ever, precisely because of the waning of cultural and moral restraints resulting from Christianity’s diminishing influence. He stated it would turn horrific as people tried to replace their lost faith in God with faith in ideology. Apparently he was on to something. He also warned that the 21st century might well see "the total eclipse of all values",in other words, an age of nihilism." In this context we can define nihilism as "Rejection of all distinctions in moral or religious value and a willingness to repudiate all previous theories of morality or religious belief." Some people call this utopia and will willingly kill those that do not agree.

Since: Mar 12

Vauréal, France

#51 Apr 8, 2012
Faith wrote:
<quoted text>The Archbishop of Michigan told me that the Christians and the Jews have the same God and the muslims worship a different evil god.
And the Archbishop of Michigan is wrong. He could be forgiven for not knowing this : And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
Koran 29/46

But I wonder how he, a man of the church, could ignore this : The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
Full text here : http://tinyurl.com/k4dj

It seems that both sides do agree here

Errare humanum est, perseverare...
Faith

New Baltimore, MI

#52 Apr 8, 2012
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
And the Archbishop of Michigan is wrong. He could be forgiven for not knowing this : And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
Koran 29/46
But I wonder how he, a man of the church, could ignore this : The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
Full text here : http://tinyurl.com/k4dj
It seems that both sides do agree here
Errare humanum est, perseverare...
Yeah, well, you have your distorted opinion. I'll stick with his Highness the Archbishop's assessment. He has God on speed-dial.
Faith

New Baltimore, MI

#53 Apr 8, 2012
ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
In fact, Jews, Christians and Muslims should work together
We've been trying for 1400 years. Unfortunately, the intransigent and amoral spirit of islam prevents any meaningful progress. Muslims are too hateful and murderous; also, they can't not lie.

Since: Mar 12

Vauréal, France

#54 Apr 8, 2012
Faith wrote:
<quoted text>The Archbishop of Michigan told me that the Christians and the Jews have the same God and the muslims worship a different evil god.
The Archbishop of Michigan is wrong, sorry.

He could be forgiven to ignore this: And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
Koran 29:46

But not this, especilly as a man of the church :
3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
Full text on Vatican website here http://tinyurl.com/k4dj

Errare humanum est, perseverare...

Since: Mar 12

Vauréal, France

#55 Apr 8, 2012
Sorry for re-posting, As it did not appear after a couple of minutes, I thought my post had been lost
Faith

New Baltimore, MI

#56 Apr 8, 2012
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
The Archbishop of Michigan is wrong, sorry.
He could be forgiven to ignore this: And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
Koran 29:46
But not this, especilly as a man of the church :
3. The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.
Full text on Vatican website here http://tinyurl.com/k4dj
Errare humanum est, perseverare...
They must have missed that bit about "Thou shalt not kill".

Since: Mar 12

Vauréal, France

#57 Apr 8, 2012
Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, well, you have your distorted opinion. I'll stick with his Highness the Archbishop's assessment. He has God on speed-dial.
When his Highness chooses to ignore the Church's position, and profess things contrary to the truth, I cannot help but wonder.
Faith

New Baltimore, MI

#58 Apr 8, 2012
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
When his Highness chooses to ignore the Church's position, and profess things contrary to the truth, I cannot help but wonder.
That's not the Church's position. The Church recognizes that the muslims worship the being that we commonly refer to as Satan. This stance was fully established during the Second Council of Nicaea in 787 AD. Don't tell me what the Church says. I'm a Catholic... and not one of those ass-kissing, liberal Vatican II kind.

Since: Jan 12

Far Rockaway, NY

#59 Apr 8, 2012
downhill246 wrote:
<quoted text>
When one is killed under the banner of secularism is the victim any less dead? the government of Iraq under Saddam Hussein was a secular government.
No, but the secular culture around the murderers do no utilise religious dogma in order to justify the murder.

It's in religious culture, not secular culture, that people defend the murderers of Ilan Halimi and say that it "was the will of God". Same for the actions of the Israeli settlers. You never hear African-Americans in Los Angeles trying to justify the murder of a rival gang member.

Since: Mar 12

Vauréal, France

#60 Apr 8, 2012
Faith wrote:
<quoted text>That's not the Church's position. The Church recognizes that the muslims worship the being that we commonly refer to as Satan. This stance was fully established during the Second Council of Nicaea in 787 AD. Don't tell me what the Church says. I'm a Catholic... and not one of those ass-kissing, liberal Vatican II kind.
Being a catholic does not amount to being an obtuse bigot.
When I quote the conclusion of the 1965 synode, as signed by Paul VI, it does seem like it is the official, definite position of the Church on the subject, which I was duly taught in catechism.

Moreover it is hardly a recent one. In an official letter letter Pope St. Gregory VII (d. AD 1085), wrote to the Muslim King Anazir, " there is an "affection we and you owe to each." "...because we worship and confess the same God though in diverse forms and daily praise and adore him as the creator and ruler of this world..."

... perseverare diabolicum est
downhill246

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#61 Apr 8, 2012
YoavProudDhimmi wrote:
<quoted text>
No, but the secular culture around the murderers do no utilise religious dogma in order to justify the murder.
It's in religious culture, not secular culture, that people defend the murderers of Ilan Halimi and say that it "was the will of God". Same for the actions of the Israeli settlers. You never hear African-Americans in Los Angeles trying to justify the murder of a rival gang member.


No they do it for secular reason such as for the good of the state.
According to University of Hawaii political scientist Rudolph J. Rummel, the total number killed in all of human history is estimated to be about 284,638,000. Of that number, 151,491,000 were killed during the past 100 years. The single largest killer in all of human history is, by far, atheistic Communism with a total of at least 110,000,000, over 1/3 of all people ever killed. If we add to that number just two other regimes where religion of any sort was strongly discouraged, Nazi Germany and Nationalist China, the number rises to 141,160,000. Almost 50% of all the killings in human history.
Faith

New Baltimore, MI

#62 Apr 8, 2012
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
Being a catholic does not amount to being an obtuse bigot.
When I quote the conclusion of the 1965 synode, as signed by Paul VI, it does seem like it is the official, definite position of the Church on the subject, which I was duly taught in catechism.
Moreover it is hardly a recent one. In an official letter letter Pope St. Gregory VII (d. AD 1085), wrote to the Muslim King Anazir, " there is an "affection we and you owe to each." "...because we worship and confess the same God though in diverse forms and daily praise and adore him as the creator and ruler of this world..."
... perseverare diabolicum est
That nonsense was later recanted. That was shameless pandering to the Turks.

Since: Mar 12

Vauréal, France

#63 Apr 8, 2012
YoavProudDhimmi wrote:
<quoted text>
No, but the secular culture around the murderers do no utilise religious dogma in order to justify the murder.
It's in religious culture, not secular culture, that people defend the murderers of Ilan Halimi and say that it "was the will of God". Same for the actions of the Israeli settlers. You never hear African-Americans in Los Angeles trying to justify the murder of a rival gang member.
Replace religion with politics and you'll see they do. Every day. Corsican independentusts, Shining path, liberation tigers in Sri Lanka, Using a 'cause' to justify the killing of innocents il all too common.

Sorry but I don't see why you bring Ilhan halimi into this. Ilhan Halimi was the victim of anti-semite prejudice, but the motivation of the kidnappers here was pure greed not religion. Absolutely horrific and all the more so because of the simplistic reasoning of the sorry specimens of humanity who perpetrated it.
Faith

New Baltimore, MI

#64 Apr 8, 2012
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
Replace religion with politics and you'll see they do. Every day. Corsican independentusts, Shining path, liberation tigers in Sri Lanka, Using a 'cause' to justify the killing of innocents il all too common.
Sorry but I don't see why you bring Ilhan halimi into this. Ilhan Halimi was the victim of anti-semite prejudice, but the motivation of the kidnappers here was pure greed not religion. Absolutely horrific and all the more so because of the simplistic reasoning of the sorry specimens of humanity who perpetrated it.
Greed? Give us a break. It was nothing but garden variety islamic Jew-hatred.

Since: Dec 09

Wahiawa, HI

#66 Apr 8, 2012
ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
Has it ever occured to you that the majority of Muslims in Europe doesn't support the actions of terrorists?
Also the majority of European Muslims are born and bred in Europe, and hold diverse European nationalities.
From a purely legal position, your proposal is impossible. From a practical point of view, it is unrealistic.
They should not have been let into the country in the first place. That's the point. Now that they are there, they should assimilate or pack their bags and leave.

Since: Dec 09

Wahiawa, HI

#67 Apr 8, 2012
ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
In fact, Jews, Christians and Muslims should work together to eradicate the extremism each religion harbours among its fanatic followers. But that would mean respect for other religions and abandoning any attempt at supremacy. As it is, each of the 3 religion pretends to be the "true" one, and more or less dismiss the others.
There is a lot of common ground in the 3 Abrahamic religions that share the same fundamental beliefs and also some philosophy.
Belief in one God creator, after-life, sins, salvation, duty to others, charity are common in the 3 religions.
True, but whichever is the majority in a given country should be allowed to maintain their majority status and not be overrun by others. A little diversity is OK but too much is too much. It creates conflict that goes round and round. Every nation needs a core culture and ethnicity to sustain domestic tranquility and stability. EVERY nation.

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