France: Islamists seeking to avenge d...

France: Islamists seeking to avenge death of Muslim shooter

There are 228 comments on the www.usatoday.com story from Apr 6, 2012, titled France: Islamists seeking to avenge death of Muslim shooter. In it, www.usatoday.com reports that:

France's interior minister says some Islamist groups in France want to avenge the death of a Muslim radical, who the government says was responsible for the killing of seven people in a shooting spree in the country's south ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.usatoday.com.

ronan

UK

#188 Apr 19, 2012
taffman wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to dissagree with you here, Jehovahs Witnesses and other Christian denominations have been prosecuted in Syria, Pakistan, Iran, Somalia, and many other Islamic countries for "prosilitising", Most of the congregations in those countries are filled with ex Muslims, which is one of the reasons why those countries are making it illegal to be a Christian, Soon to be punisable by death. The blasphemy laws are designed to make Christian free zones. The cases now being held in Pakistan, Egypt, Syria and Iran show that all that is needed for a Christian to be arrested, tried convicted and executed, is the word of a Muslim, can you immagine the outcry, if the same law was used in Christian countries, as we see a Muslim man kills seven people in France and is himself killed, now we have the wrath of the Muslim comunity who say they are going to kill more. You can not deal with people who follow a creed where the founder taught "It is good to Kill those who dissagree with you".
I repeat what I said: there are more Europeans/Westerners converting to Islam than Muslims becoming Christians.
They say a minimum of 20,000 US citizen (white) convert every year. Statistics in UK are roughly the same.
I don't think there are as many Muslins becoming Christian in the Middle east.

Prosilitism is banned by law in some Muslim countries, but it isn't in the West. You cannot expect every countries to have the same laws. We cannot, in the West,expect to live in a liberal society and then object to diversity, multi-culturalism and different religions; that wouldn't make sense.

Since: Mar 12

Issy-les-moulineaux, France

#189 Apr 19, 2012
taffman wrote:
<quoted text>
as we see a Muslim man kills seven people in France and is himself killed, now we have the wrath of the Muslim comunity who say they are going to kill more. You can not deal with people who follow a creed where the founder taught "It is good to Kill those who dissagree with you".
Mainstream muslims are quite different from what you describe. There was no support for Merah across the French muslim community, simply because they don't approve of terrorism, or condone violence. They usually are the first targets of fanatics.(Merah's victims were muslim paratroopers and the next ones were to be muslim policemen and employees of security agencies)

As for the supposed copycats or dangerous persons arrested, they simply did not exist. Some more Sarkio swashbucking before the election, I suppose. All were released without charges, and it appears there was no serious investigation behind the arestations.

Look here for what happened afterwards :
http://tinyurl.com/dxfvcvk (original article)
http://tinyurl.com/cx74ccb (the same through google translation)
Alexandre

Athens, Greece

#190 Apr 19, 2012
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
Mainstream muslims are quite different from what you describe. There was no support for Merah across the French muslim community, simply because they don't approve of terrorism, or condone violence. They usually are the first targets of fanatics.(Merah's victims were muslim paratroopers and the next ones were to be muslim policemen and employees of security agencies)
As for the supposed copycats or dangerous persons arrested, they simply did not exist. Some more Sarkio swashbucking before the election, I suppose. All were released without charges, and it appears there was no serious investigation behind the arestations.
Look here for what happened afterwards :
http://tinyurl.com/dxfvcvk (original article)
http://tinyurl.com/cx74ccb (the same through google translation)
I wouldn't open the links
Tiger Lilly could be a terrorist, she could track your IP, find you and behead you

~A~

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#191 Apr 19, 2012
ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
I repeat what I said: there are more Europeans/Westerners converting to Islam than Muslims becoming Christians.
They say a minimum of 20,000 US citizen (white) convert every year. Statistics in UK are roughly the same.
I don't think there are as many Muslins becoming Christian in the Middle east.
Prosilitism is banned by law in some Muslim countries, but it isn't in the West. You cannot expect every countries to have the same laws. We cannot, in the West,expect to live in a liberal society and then object to diversity, multi-culturalism and different religions; that wouldn't make sense.
Ask your self. Why is the preaching of Christianity against the law in most Muslim countries? The answer is simple, many Muslims have converted to Christianity, some have payed with their lifes for doing so, many would leave the Muslim faith if they had a free choice, even in Britain we see how many are murdered for wanting to change their lifes, the so called Honnor killings are reaching epidemmic preportions in some areas.
Also most countries in the world have laws which correspond with each other, the exception to this are the theocracies and dictatorships which subjugate their people with fear. In Islamic countries this is one and the same, If the Islamic way of life and laws are so good, why are people like Abu qatada fighting tooth and nail not to be deported back to their home countries?
You say you are not a Christian, not a Muslim, perhps you are an athyist. if you are, then as such you would be guilty of blasphemy, you could be executed in most of the Muslim countries.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#192 Apr 19, 2012
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
Mainstream muslims are quite different from what you describe. There was no support for Merah across the French muslim community, simply because they don't approve of terrorism, or condone violence. They usually are the first targets of fanatics.(Merah's victims were muslim paratroopers and the next ones were to be muslim policemen and employees of security agencies)
As for the supposed copycats or dangerous persons arrested, they simply did not exist. Some more Sarkio swashbucking before the election, I suppose. All were released without charges, and it appears there was no serious investigation behind the arestations.
Look here for what happened afterwards :
http://tinyurl.com/dxfvcvk (original article)
http://tinyurl.com/cx74ccb (the same through google translation)
Im very sorry I should have said, Some in the Muslim comunuty.
ronan

UK

#193 Apr 20, 2012
taffman wrote:
<quoted text>
Ask your self. Why is the preaching of Christianity against the law in most Muslim countries? The answer is simple, many Muslims have converted to Christianity, some have payed with their lifes for doing so, many would leave the Muslim faith if they had a free choice, even in Britain we see how many are murdered for wanting to change their lifes, the so called Honnor killings are reaching epidemmic preportions in some areas.
Also most countries in the world have laws which correspond with each other, the exception to this are the theocracies and dictatorships which subjugate their people with fear. In Islamic countries this is one and the same, If the Islamic way of life and laws are so good, why are people like Abu qatada fighting tooth and nail not to be deported back to their home countries?
You say you are not a Christian, not a Muslim, perhps you are an athyist. if you are, then as such you would be guilty of blasphemy, you could be executed in most of the Muslim countries.
You are very badly informed and completely brainwashed by islamophobia.

In the Middle East, Muslims, Christians and Jews used to cohabit for centuries. There has been Christian communities in Syria, Irak, Lebanon, Egypt and other places, from the begining of Christianity! There were Jews as well: half of the population of Israel comes from Arab countries!
That changed after 1948, when Arab countries hardened their position, and many Jews left - many voluntarily.

Apart from being seen as distinct religious groups, its the political inclination of some Christian community that attracts persecution now. Under Saddam Hussein, for example, Christians were close to his government, one of them was even his Number Two! It's the same in several Arab countries, where Christians have been protected of favoured by dictators. Now, with the rise of Islamism, of course they are suspected of opposition and harrassed for it.

People like Abu Quatada don't want to return to their country because they committed terrorist acts there and fear punishment for it. They much prefer to live in the liberal West than face justice.

I have been in Arab countries, and never feared for my life because of my absence of religion. If you don't try to convert Muslims, and if you respect their beliefs, the authorities live you alone. In fact the issue of religion has never been mentioned to me.
British Expat

Saint-laurent-du-var, France

#194 Apr 20, 2012
ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
You are very badly informed and completely brainwashed by islamophobia.
In the Middle East, Muslims, Christians and Jews used to cohabit for centuries. There has been Christian communities in Syria, Irak, Lebanon, Egypt and other places, from the begining of Christianity! There were Jews as well: half of the population of Israel comes from Arab countries!
That changed after 1948, when Arab countries hardened their position, and many Jews left - many voluntarily.
Apart from being seen as distinct religious groups, its the political inclination of some Christian community that attracts persecution now. Under Saddam Hussein, for example, Christians were close to his government, one of them was even his Number Two! It's the same in several Arab countries, where Christians have been protected of favoured by dictators. Now, with the rise of Islamism, of course they are suspected of opposition and harrassed for it.
People like Abu Quatada don't want to return to their country because they committed terrorist acts there and fear punishment for it. They much prefer to live in the liberal West than face justice.
I have been in Arab countries, and never feared for my life because of my absence of religion. If you don't try to convert Muslims, and if you respect their beliefs, the authorities live you alone. In fact the issue of religion has never been mentioned to me.
Good post, I agree. Atheism is the only true belief however. It has logic/common sense and the history/practices of religion on its side.

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#195 Apr 20, 2012
British Expat wrote:
<quoted text>
Good post, I agree. Atheism is the only true belief however. It has logic/common sense and the history/practices of religion on its side.
You're a failure Raymond.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#196 Apr 20, 2012
ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
You are very badly informed and completely brainwashed by islamophobia.
In the Middle East, Muslims, Christians and Jews used to cohabit for centuries. There has been Christian communities in Syria, Irak, Lebanon, Egypt and other places, from the begining of Christianity! There were Jews as well: half of the population of Israel comes from Arab countries!
That changed after 1948, when Arab countries hardened their position, and many Jews left - many voluntarily.
Apart from being seen as distinct religious groups, its the political inclination of some Christian community that attracts persecution now. Under Saddam Hussein, for example, Christians were close to his government, one of them was even his Number Two! It's the same in several Arab countries, where Christians have been protected of favoured by dictators. Now, with the rise of Islamism, of course they are suspected of opposition and harrassed for it.
People like Abu Quatada don't want to return to their country because they committed terrorist acts there and fear punishment for it. They much prefer to live in the liberal West than face justice.
I have been in Arab countries, and never feared for my life because of my absence of religion. If you don't try to convert Muslims, and if you respect their beliefs, the authorities live you alone. In fact the issue of religion has never been mentioned to me.
I thing the telling comment you used, "half of the population of Israel comes from Arab countries!
That changed after 1948, when Arab countries hardened their position, and many Jews left - many voluntarily," earlier you pointed out that the palistinians were a displaced people but they were only displaced after the jews were perscuted in Europe and then thrown out of the Muslim countries. the nation of israel is its self a displaced people, they had to go some where, they decided that they should return to the "promised land" Much to the disgust of the Islamic nations, the point remains that if the Muslim nations had not forceably ejected the Jews we would not be in the position where we find our self now. The intolerence shown in the Muslim countries now is staggering,
I return to the Blasphemy laws and the persecution of Christians in Muslim countries, it is an easy cop out to blame the dictators for the persecution Christians are suffering now, the vast majority of those who sided with the likes of Sadam were ofcourse Muslim, it is well documented that Christians were also targeted by the regemes. What I am trying to point out is that it is not the average guy on the street who is instigating the persecution but the religious leaders/fanatics. if the international comunity allows this to carry on, then we will see the forced eviction of Christians just as the jews were from those countries.
I do agree though, when in a Muslim country you should show the proper respect, I myself travel to Egypt frequently, and as you say have never had any trouble. I have noticed the growing fear in the poulation, both Christian and Muslim, On what will happen in the future, The people I talk with, mainly do not want a religious state but a secular one but are afraid to air their views in public for fear of reprisals, is this the sort of world we want to see?
As for Abbu Qatada, he is nothing but a lying, hypocritcal, coward. He is willing to send young men and women to their deaths, and murder as many as he can while preaching his brand of filth, but is to frightened to go and face the music himself, yet he still preaches about the wonders of shariah law and islam, you couldnt make it up.

Since: Jan 12

Far Rockaway, NY

#197 Apr 20, 2012
ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
That changed after 1948, when Arab countries hardened their position, and many Jews left - many voluntarily.
Ronan why do you always have to simplify what happened to us in the Arab world? Do you really think that 99% of a population leaves its ancestral home on a whim?

Yes some did leave voluntarily, I would say many Moroccan Jews left voluntarily as there was still a relatively large community even until the 1970s.

However, Syria, Libya, Egypt were tragic and violent departures for the Jewish community, with heavy casualties and periods of arbitrary arrest and torture.

Was it as bad as the Palestinian Naqba? No.

But does that make it any less tragic? Not at all.
British Expat

Saint-laurent-du-var, France

#198 Apr 20, 2012
A variation on the fishes and bread!!

There was a young man from Wales

Who lived on all shit and snails

When he could'nt get these

He lived on the cheese

That he scrapped from his knob

With his nails.

Ooops. No offence Taff.
Faith

New Baltimore, MI

#199 Apr 20, 2012
Jesus turned water into wine. You should see what he did with oregano.
British Expat

Saint-laurent-du-var, France

#200 Apr 20, 2012
YoavProudDhimmi wrote:
<quoted text>
Ronan why do you always have to simplify what happened to us in the Arab world? Do you really think that 99% of a population leaves its ancestral home on a whim?
Yes some did leave voluntarily, I would say many Moroccan Jews left voluntarily as there was still a relatively large community even until the 1970s.
However, Syria, Libya, Egypt were tragic and violent departures for the Jewish community, with heavy casualties and periods of arbitrary arrest and torture.
Was it as bad as the Palestinian Naqba? No.
But does that make it any less tragic? Not at all.
Agreed! Not at all. Its just religion in action. Sad really.

Become a rational human being. DUMP RELIGION INTO THE GARBAGE CAN OF HISTORY.

Have a nice day.

Since: Mar 12

Issy-les-moulineaux, France

#201 Apr 20, 2012
YoavProudDhimmi wrote:
<quoted text>
Ronan why do you always have to simplify what happened to us in the Arab world? Do you really think that 99% of a population leaves its ancestral home on a whim?
Yes some did leave voluntarily, I would say many Moroccan Jews left voluntarily as there was still a relatively large community even until the 1970s.
However, Syria, Libya, Egypt were tragic and violent departures for the Jewish community, with heavy casualties and periods of arbitrary arrest and torture.
Was it as bad as the Palestinian Naqba? No.
But does that make it any less tragic? Not at all.
The Jewish agency 'helped' quite a lot. This is what happened to Morrocan jews who became the target of scare campaigns. The Agency concluded an agreement with Hassan II to promote emigration.

The Morrocan jews I know said they have been lured into emigration, with no hope of going back since they had to sell their belongings rather hastily for fear of persecutions which never took happened.

While there were real persecution in some zones, I do suspect that fearmonging by zionists did play a role in others.
ronan

UK

#202 Apr 20, 2012
taffman wrote:
<quoted text>
I thing the telling comment you used, "half of the population of Israel comes from Arab countries!
That changed after 1948, when Arab countries hardened their position, and many Jews left - many voluntarily," earlier you pointed out that the palistinians were a displaced people but they were only displaced after the jews were perscuted in Europe and then thrown out of the Muslim countries. the nation of israel is its self a displaced people, they had to go some where, they decided that they should return to the "promised land" Much to the disgust of the Islamic nations, the point remains that if the Muslim nations had not forceably ejected the Jews we would not be in the position where we find our self now. The intolerence shown in the Muslim countries now is staggering,
What nonsense!!
The Arabs weren't responsible with the Jewish diaspora; it started when the Kingdom of Judea collapsed, and later the Romans encouraged it too in the last centuries of their empire.
The Romans, after all, had hijacked a Jewish sect to make it their state religion: Christianity!
From then, the Jews inflitrated Central and Eastern Europe, Spain, etc... That has nothing to do with the Arabs either.
Was the persecution of Jews in Europe, the pogroms in Poland and Russia, the ghettos in Italy, the Inquisition in Spain and finally the Holocaust in Germany the fault of the Arabs?
Who killed 6 millions of Jews if not European countries accomplices with the NAZIs? That was not the Arabs!
The Jews didn't have to go back to Palestine 20 centuries later, had they been accepted and integrated in Europe. Now you blame the Muslims for that!
And you talk about intolerance in Muslim countries!
ronan

UK

#203 Apr 20, 2012
taffman wrote:
<quoted text>
I return to the Blasphemy laws and the persecution of Christians in Muslim countries, it is an easy cop out to blame the dictators for the persecution Christians are suffering now, the vast majority of those who sided with the likes of Sadam were ofcourse Muslim, it is well documented that Christians were also targeted by the regemes. What I am trying to point out is that it is not the average guy on the street who is instigating the persecution but the religious leaders/fanatics. if the international comunity allows this to carry on, then we will see the forced eviction of Christians just as the jews were from those countries.
The international community has mostly stay silent at the invasion and occupation of some Muslim countries, and the West is heavily involved in destabilising other Muslim countries.

I don't think the international community can preache moderation to religious leaders and fanatics after it endorsed the events of the last 10 years ion the Middle East.
ronan

UK

#204 Apr 20, 2012
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
The Jewish agency 'helped' quite a lot. This is what happened to Morrocan jews who became the target of scare campaigns. The Agency concluded an agreement with Hassan II to promote emigration.
The Morrocan jews I know said they have been lured into emigration, with no hope of going back since they had to sell their belongings rather hastily for fear of persecutions which never took happened.
While there were real persecution in some zones, I do suspect that fearmonging by zionists did play a role in others.
I knew a Jewish family who only left Syria after 1956, and had to leave their business behind (bus company). They elected to come to Britain and never wanted to go to Israel. In fact, the head of the family blames the zionsits for the lost of his fortune.
Not all Jews are in favour of Israel.

Since: Jan 12

Far Rockaway, NY

#205 Apr 20, 2012
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
The Jewish agency 'helped' quite a lot. This is what happened to Morrocan jews who became the target of scare campaigns. The Agency concluded an agreement with Hassan II to promote emigration.
The Morrocan jews I know said they have been lured into emigration, with no hope of going back since they had to sell their belongings rather hastily for fear of persecutions which never took happened.
While there were real persecution in some zones, I do suspect that fearmonging by zionists did play a role in others.
You live in a fairy tale world where Muslims are as pure as Snow White and Jews are the wicked Queen. Sorry mate but the world isn't black and white like that.

Morocco is a unique situation, and the relationship there and still today is far superior to any other Arab country. With the exception of a few riots ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Oujda_and_J... ) Muslims and Jews had a warm relationship in Morocco and Jews were very attached to the country. Most Jews left due to lack of economic security. What many others fail to acknowledge is that 1948 was not a watershed year for Jewish emigration. Post-independence from French colonial rule is when most Jews departed North Africa, but many of these communities continued until the 1967 War. And most Jews preferred to go to France. Most of the Jews who went to Israel were of the lowest socio-economic status. So the 1948 activity of the Jewish Agency was a complete failure.

But I suggest you read Norman Stillman's "Jews from Arab lands in Modern Times" and read the sections on Syria, Egypt, and Libya. See if he shares your thesis that "persecutions never happened".

Not to mention that many of these governments extorted millions and millions of dollars from the wealthy members of the Jewish communities to "prove their loyalty" and buy their protection.

Jews of the Arab world were never treated as badly as Palestinians, agreed, but in their eyes it was just as tragic because they were mistreated by their supposed compatriots for crimes committed in the distant country of Palestine.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#207 Apr 21, 2012
ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
What nonsense!!
The Arabs weren't responsible with the Jewish diaspora; it started when the Kingdom of Judea collapsed, and later the Romans encouraged it too in the last centuries of their empire.
The Romans, after all, had hijacked a Jewish sect to make it their state religion: Christianity!
From then, the Jews inflitrated Central and Eastern Europe, Spain, etc... That has nothing to do with the Arabs either.
Was the persecution of Jews in Europe, the pogroms in Poland and Russia, the ghettos in Italy, the Inquisition in Spain and finally the Holocaust in Germany the fault of the Arabs?
Who killed 6 millions of Jews if not European countries accomplices with the NAZIs? That was not the Arabs!
The Jews didn't have to go back to Palestine 20 centuries later, had they been accepted and integrated in Europe. Now you blame the Muslims for that!
And you talk about intolerance in Muslim countries!
I must say Ronan you have a very blinkered, biast view of history and a strange way of argueing a point. AS you can see I am pointing to modern history, if you want to go back far enough to 70 CE when the Romans virtuly emptied the country in reprisals for the uprising, this allowed surrounding nations which later became the Arab nations to move in, and yes the european nations as every one knows went through stages of persecuting the Jews, the Jews didnt "infiltrate" Europe as you say they were mostly taken there as slaves and no, you can not blame the Muslims for that, because at that time the Muslims were buisiy expanding their own empire slaughtering every one else.
I have just read through my posts to see if I may have attributed blame where there was none, But I cant see where I have pointed the finger at the Muslims where there was no blame attached,I am not Islamifobic, but where there is concern then action should be taken eg, the blasphemy laws, or are you saying it is ok to persecute a minority because they are living in a country where the law is changed for the purpose of ridding themself of that minority. Again I ask you, how would you react if Britain as a Christian country decided to bring in laws where owning a copy of the Koran was illegal, where saying you dissagreed with the teachings of the Bible was punishable with death, where if you said you were gay you could be executed, where the female poulation is veiwed as propety, not allowed to hold any position of rank not even allowed to drive a car. How many more examples do you want? The religious persecution in countries like Saudi, Iran , Pakistan, Egypt and others should concern us all, there is no defence for such behavior, Lets be honest If I was living in one of the afore mentioned countries I could be arrested, tried and executed for writing this text.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#208 Apr 21, 2012
YoavProudDhimmi wrote:
<quoted text>
You live in a fairy tale world where Muslims are as pure as Snow White and Jews are the wicked Queen. Sorry mate but the world isn't black and white like that.
Morocco is a unique situation, and the relationship there and still today is far superior to any other Arab country. With the exception of a few riots ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Oujda_and_J... ) Muslims and Jews had a warm relationship in Morocco and Jews were very attached to the country. Most Jews left due to lack of economic security. What many others fail to acknowledge is that 1948 was not a watershed year for Jewish emigration. Post-independence from French colonial rule is when most Jews departed North Africa, but many of these communities continued until the 1967 War. And most Jews preferred to go to France. Most of the Jews who went to Israel were of the lowest socio-economic status. So the 1948 activity of the Jewish Agency was a complete failure.
But I suggest you read Norman Stillman's "Jews from Arab lands in Modern Times" and read the sections on Syria, Egypt, and Libya. See if he shares your thesis that "persecutions never happened".
Not to mention that many of these governments extorted millions and millions of dollars from the wealthy members of the Jewish communities to "prove their loyalty" and buy their protection.
Jews of the Arab world were never treated as badly as Palestinians, agreed, but in their eyes it was just as tragic because they were mistreated by their supposed compatriots for crimes committed in the distant country of Palestine.
Good text.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Nicolas Sarkozy Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News In '72, EPA battled pollution; now it's politics (Apr '12) Jul 23 Governor Leadwater 22
News Sarkozy overheard calling Israeli PM 'a liar' (Nov '11) Jul 20 Czech defector 60
News Libya Calls On Russia To Mediate Cease-Fire (May '11) Jun 28 Scottish Loyalist 47
News French Socialist presidential nominee Hollande:... (Oct '11) Jun '16 Swedenforever 6
News Sarkozy overheard telling Obama Netanyahu's a liar (Nov '11) Mar '16 Dubya Amnesty 228
News Obama warns UK must 'pay fair share' for defenc... Mar '16 Speaking Freely 7
News Germany and France in nuclear weapons dispute a... (Nov '10) Feb '16 Japanese Gun laws 3
More from around the web