Sarkozy's threat to pull France from visa-free zone

Full story: The New Zealand Herald

France's President and candidate for the upcoming elections, Nicolas Sarkozy delivers his speech during a meeting in Villepinte, north of Paris, France, as part of his electoral campaign.
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21 - 30 of 30 Comments Last updated Apr 29, 2012
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ronan

UK

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#22
Apr 26, 2012
 
the examiner wrote:
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Ideally, non EU members should be checked for Identification at the border. Many countries let them in so they can spend money in the country. Illegal immigrants don't come empty handed. They come with 3000 or 5000 euros in their pockets. And who knows if they are just transitting and the final destination is some where else.
Yes, but WHICH border?

Can France, Belgium or Germany really trust the border 'checks' operated by countries like Romania, Bulgaria, Greece or even Italy and Spain?

These countries know fully well that the illegals will be heading for Northern Europe after they enter the Shengen zone, and have no incentive to dedicate a large budget to border control.

But, since the majority of illegals are failed assylum seekers who overstay after their cases have been dismissed, why no repeal the assylum status altogether. It's the biggest scam existing, everybody knows it.
Also, illegal entry should be criminalised. At present, we are far too lenient.

I am afraid that to really tackle illegal immigration Western countries will really have to adopt draconian measures, like in good old Soviet times! Until then, politicians pay lip service to it.
ronan

UK

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#23
Apr 26, 2012
 
Dane T wrote:
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Racial Profiling is vital to maintaining the rule of law.
People will just have to "man up"!
No, that is counterproductive and leads to tension. It's a racist policy.

Why should a legal immigrant (and some of them have obtained citizenship) should be constantly checked because of the colour of his skin, when a illegal white person could blend with the indigenous population and never be detected?

There was a time, a large proportion of illegals immigrants in Britain were Australians! They were never challenged, never asked to provide proof of legal entry, or immigration status...

Since: Mar 12

France

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#24
Apr 27, 2012
 
ronan wrote:
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Like I said, there are different way to flush out illegals from a country.
Or you go after them by chasing individuals, or you prevent them to access public services: employement, national health, education, benefits, lodging, etc..
If you force the bodies dispensing these services (employers, doctors, hospitals, schools, social security, landlords, housing services) to check the immigration status of applicants, and prevent them to dispense their services to illegals, many will stop entering France.
There is a lot more that can be done than simply having border guards. Enforce hefty fines and even prison sentences for those who aid or abait illegals. Bring rewards for people denouncing illegals, etc...
Half of your propositions are ethically unapplicable, especially for denunicaton which smacks of WWII and and few unwholesome episodes of national history, any politician resorting to it is bound to be pilloried as soon as he breathes the idea.

The other half is already implemented but does not seem to quell the flow. Immigration status is compulsorily checked by employers, and state services. Rogue companies employing illegals below the minimum wage are routinely put out of business as are smugglers networks and slum landlords.

You won't change the fact that one or two hundred euros can feed a whole family in some part of the world and that illegals can scrape just that doing odd jobs in the West, leading a life you would not even want for a day.

One of the main problems regarding immigration in France is that there are no clear rules as to who could be eligible to enter, which in turn could be opposed to those who are not. The present government puts the stress on formal education and command of language, while the needs of the job market might differ (right now there is a shortage of hotel maids, butchers and low qualification contruction workers). Asking for basic litteracy in latin alphabet and a formal commitment to learn French, provided the person has the right work experience, would be more realistic - and productive in the end.
ronan

UK

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#26
Apr 27, 2012
 
Tigerrlily wrote:
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Half of your propositions are ethically unapplicable, especially for denunicaton which smacks of WWII and and few unwholesome episodes of national history, any politician resorting to it is bound to be pilloried as soon as he breathes the idea.
The other half is already implemented but does not seem to quell the flow. Immigration status is compulsorily checked by employers, and state services. Rogue companies employing illegals below the minimum wage are routinely put out of business as are smugglers networks and slum landlords.
Our police in UK already uses anonymous informers and pays them rewards to obtain tips about criminals, illegals and wanted characters.
The system should be developed.

Denunciation of criminals and the use of informers to help enforcing our laws has nothing to do with WWII.

Most of our sentences are far too lenient. Illegals are playing a cat-and-mouse game with the authorities because the stakes are not high enough.
British Expat

Bompas, France

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#27
Apr 27, 2012
 
ronan wrote:
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Our police in UK already uses anonymous informers and pays them rewards to obtain tips about criminals, illegals and wanted characters.
The system should be developed.
Denunciation of criminals and the use of informers to help enforcing our laws has nothing to do with WWII.
Most of our sentences are far too lenient. Illegals are playing a cat-and-mouse game with the authorities because the stakes are not high enough.
Informers eH. The IRA had another name for your ilk! LOL
ronan

UK

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#28
Apr 27, 2012
 
British Expat wrote:
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Informers eH. The IRA had another name for your ilk! LOL
The Police CRIMESTOPPERS scheme encouraging informations and offering cash rewards is widely advertised in UK and has been a large success since it has been introduced.

Together with the WITNESSES PROTECTION scheme, it has been helping the police to catch many rogue individuals and the courts to put thousands of criminals behind bars.

Nothing to do with the IRA. I cannot even see the connection.
British Expat

Bompas, France

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#29
Apr 27, 2012
 
ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
The Police CRIMESTOPPERS scheme encouraging informations and offering cash rewards is widely advertised in UK and has been a large success since it has been introduced.
Together with the WITNESSES PROTECTION scheme, it has been helping the police to catch many rogue individuals and the courts to put thousands of criminals behind bars.
Nothing to do with the IRA. I cannot even see the connection.
Yes you are right for a change. More to do with Nazi germany. I remember it well!!!!!
ronan

UK

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#30
Apr 27, 2012
 
British Expat wrote:
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Yes you are right for a change. More to do with Nazi germany. I remember it well!!!!!
Helping the police and the court to enforce our laws has nothing unethical.

Looking the other way is what is despicable.
Take the power

Tampon, Reunion

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#31
Apr 27, 2012
 
All what you suggest is so un-french.
Let me remind you that many french are ready to employ immigrants on the black market by taking advantage of the fact they have no residence permit and paying them low low wages and not declaring them.
even ministers have done it.
landlords also do not hesitate to rent their flats for ridiculous prices to illegal immigrants.
easy to lay the blame on the foreigners.
Vive la france !

Since: Mar 12

Vauréal, France

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#32
Apr 29, 2012
 
ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
Our police in UK already uses anonymous informers and pays them rewards to obtain tips about criminals, illegals and wanted characters.
The system should be developed.
Denunciation of criminals and the use of informers to help enforcing our laws has nothing to do with WWII.
Most of our sentences are far too lenient. Illegals are playing a cat-and-mouse game with the authorities because the stakes are not high enough.
Large scale use of informants to denounce jews, resistance, political opponents is very WWII in my book, any politician even suggesting this and we end up with a French version of the Godwin point in just one step - and a politician seeking early retirement fast.

Reporting a crime you witnessed is one thing. Tipping off the police on suspected illegals (on which grounds ? Skin colour ?) on hearsay is another, and one with dire consequences on society. General suspicion and mistrust between ethnic groups, and social unrest at the end of the road.

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