Sarkozy's threat to pull France from visa-free zone

Full story: The New Zealand Herald

France's President and candidate for the upcoming elections, Nicolas Sarkozy delivers his speech during a meeting in Villepinte, north of Paris, France, as part of his electoral campaign.

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“Progressive liberal politic”

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#1
Apr 7, 2012
 

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EU need to unite in common country, and to have common borders, common army, common police, common immigration-politic, common citizenship.

Since: Mar 12

Vauréal, France

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#2
Apr 7, 2012
 

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neobyzantine wrote:
EU need to unite in common country, and to have common borders, common army, common police, common immigration-politic, common citizenship.
Don't worry, the guys in Brussels took it with a pinch of salt and smirks. This is Sarko being Sarko. Again
ronan

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#3
Apr 7, 2012
 

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Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't worry, the guys in Brussels took it with a pinch of salt and smirks. This is Sarko being Sarko. Again
Myself, I find it incredible that countries that have committed themselves to the Shengen Treaty cannot go back, and renounce the treaty.

Also, this Treaty need to be reviewed I think. There are now matters of state security to consider.

I am sure glad Britain isn't part of it, although our immigration records aren't very good.
leon

Shanghai, China

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#4
Apr 9, 2012
 

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neobyzantine wrote:
EU need to unite in common country, and to have common borders, common army, common police, common immigration-politic, common citizenship.
it can be possible if they have a common language English.
Nobody understand and can comunictae with his European brother in this patch of languages.

“Progressive liberal politic”

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#5
Apr 9, 2012
 

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leon wrote:
<quoted text>
it can be possible if they have a common language English.
Nobody understand and can comunictae with his European brother in this patch of languages.
Language is not problem. And allready the 90% of citizens of EU talking english.
Greg

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#7
Apr 23, 2012
 

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Why does such Sarkozy, who is no Frenchman candidates in France. He should candidate in his country - it is Israel or Hungary.
This guy has involved France in war in Afghanistan, he has involved France in another wars or tries of coup d'etat: Lybia, now Syria. He has increased presidential salary ( it means salary of him from 6000 til 16 000 euro ), he is responsible for cooperation with global speculators and pro-war mongers and he has caused increase of debts in France. He ruins own country and he should be ousted.
Socialists have normal candidate just like Francois Mitterand was, this man is good, honest politician: Francois Holland and he will save France and he will work for good of France and Frenchmen.

Since: Mar 12

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#8
Apr 24, 2012
 

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ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
Myself, I find it incredible that countries that have committed themselves to the Shengen Treaty cannot go back, and renounce the treaty.
Also, this Treaty need to be reviewed I think. There are now matters of state security to consider.
I am sure glad Britain isn't part of it, although our immigration records aren't very good.
Not necessary - in case of necessity individual countries can close their borders temporarily without pulling out of the process.

What Sarko has not said is that in times of money shortage Schengen allowed more efficient police and customs work by redeploying officers garding borders to more essential tasks like hunting smugglers and drug dealers all over the territory and increased police cooperation and the networking of databases. now when a criminal akes refuge in a neighbouring country he is usually located and stopped within days by local autorities.

Not sure that putting guys all along borders would be the best way to spend the state's budget. With all due respect to UK insular tendencies, we are not an island and in my opinion, the key to safety is more cooperation, not less.
ronan

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#9
Apr 24, 2012
 
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
Not necessary - in case of necessity individual countries can close their borders temporarily without pulling out of the process.
What Sarko has not said is that in times of money shortage Schengen allowed more efficient police and customs work by redeploying officers garding borders to more essential tasks like hunting smugglers and drug dealers all over the territory and increased police cooperation and the networking of databases. now when a criminal akes refuge in a neighbouring country he is usually located and stopped within days by local autorities.
Not sure that putting guys all along borders would be the best way to spend the state's budget. With all due respect to UK insular tendencies, we are not an island and in my opinion, the key to safety is more cooperation, not less.
No, the Shengen agreement is that anyone entering a member country is allowed to circulate in the others.
France could rescind that first, and not recognise the free circulation of non-EU citizen who entered Europe from another country.

France wouldn't need to re-staff all its borders in the first instance, but to consider as illegals all those who aren't EU-nationals and have come to France without a French-delivered visa.

The entry points are well known anyway: international airports, and several motorway points along its land borders. That's how 'illegals' enter France.

There is not enough cooperation between Shengen countries, for the good reasons that illegals are a problem in some countries, and not in others. The Italian coastline is like a sieve, but Italy knows that most illegals will head for France anyway. Mediteranean countries are very weak on immigratyion enforcement anyway.
the examiner

Montréal, Canada

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#10
Apr 24, 2012
 

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Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
Not necessary - in case of necessity individual countries can close their borders temporarily without pulling out of the process.
What Sarko has not said is that in times of money shortage Schengen allowed more efficient police and customs work by redeploying officers garding borders to more essential tasks like hunting smugglers and drug dealers all over the territory and increased police cooperation and the networking of databases. now when a criminal akes refuge in a neighbouring country he is usually located and stopped within days by local autorities.
Not sure that putting guys all along borders would be the best way to spend the state's budget. With all due respect to UK insular tendencies, we are not an island and in my opinion, the key to safety is more cooperation, not less.
The problem is more about illegal immigration than drug trafficking or criminals. France knows that clandestine immigrants who enter France won't stay. They just want to use the Euro tunnel to go to the UK where the can speak English and find jobs. It would take a person time and money which they don't have to learn French, Dutch or German in order to find a job. That's is why France and the other countries signed the Schengen treaty. But now Sarkozy realized that there is still a problem. The Arabs from North Africa speak French and they enter Italy just to come to France.

Since: Mar 12

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#11
Apr 25, 2012
 

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the examiner wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem is more about illegal immigration than drug trafficking or criminals. France knows that clandestine immigrants who enter France won't stay. They just want to use the Euro tunnel to go to the UK where the can speak English and find jobs. It would take a person time and money which they don't have to learn French, Dutch or German in order to find a job. That's is why France and the other countries signed the Schengen treaty. But now Sarkozy realized that there is still a problem. The Arabs from North Africa speak French and they enter Italy just to come to France.
Schengen or not, there has always been illegal immigration in France (massive regularisation in 1981 for instance). The wave of hopefuls who want to en ter UK is fairly recent compared to this. And you don't need to speak a lot of French to get a job if the aforesaid job is unqualified or your employer speaks your language. Many chinese immigrants hardly speak French but live entirely in a Chinese speaking world - many illegals end up in chinese owned sweatshops to repay their debts to the guys who smuggled them in.
YOuWillNotFoolUs

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#12
Apr 25, 2012
 
Francois Holland is jew so nothing will change in France. Sarko's hate political propaganda attacking the minority community (immigration) will not be so effective in the long term as more people are releasing about the existing of an "elite" group of gangsters running the banking system, in control of the massmedia and elected in key political position.
Blame the Zionist movement!
the examiner

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#13
Apr 25, 2012
 
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
Schengen or not, there has always been illegal immigration in France (massive regularisation in 1981 for instance). The wave of hopefuls who want to en ter UK is fairly recent compared to this. And you don't need to speak a lot of French to get a job if the aforesaid job is unqualified or your employer speaks your language. Many chinese immigrants hardly speak French but live entirely in a Chinese speaking world - many illegals end up in chinese owned sweatshops to repay their debts to the guys who smuggled them in.
China town in Paris is not that big and not every one is a cook, a seamstress or a laundry man. Except for the weekend, you hardly see any one in the 13e arrondissement or in Belleville. The Asians in France are mostly Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians. Those do speak French. Asians in France totall around 150 thousand people.

I am talking about the East Europeans who want to make money in the EU. Now that some of them are in the EU like Poland, where would they go? to the UK. More than 1 million Poles have arrived in the UK since. Why not France or Italy?

Since: Mar 12

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#14
Apr 25, 2012
 

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the examiner wrote:
<quoted text>
China town in Paris is not that big and not every one is a cook, a seamstress or a laundry man. Except for the weekend, you hardly see any one in the 13e arrondissement or in Belleville. The Asians in France are mostly Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians. Those do speak French. Asians in France totall around 150 thousand people.
I am talking about the East Europeans who want to make money in the EU. Now that some of them are in the EU like Poland, where would they go? to the UK. More than 1 million Poles have arrived in the UK since. Why not France or Italy?
I was only taking the example of Chinese as one of the most closeted communities around - and one with a comparatively large problem of people smuggling.

France has always been a destination for immigrants, what we need is not more detterents but clear fair rules as to who can apply - that and realistic quotas. Tightening rules for the sake of it or, more likely, to tickle the far right electorate does not yield any positive results, impedes economic activity and gives the country a bad name. apart giving the county a bad name. The recent question of visa extension for graduates is rather emblematic in this regard.
Joey Sanchez

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#15
Apr 25, 2012
 

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Bravo.

Visa Free Zone is New World Order crap. it is an act of civic suicide.

Since: Mar 12

France

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#16
Apr 25, 2012
 

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ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the Shengen agreement is that anyone entering a member country is allowed to circulate in the others.
France could rescind that first, and not recognise the free circulation of non-EU citizen who entered Europe from another country.
France wouldn't need to re-staff all its borders in the first instance, but to consider as illegals all those who aren't EU-nationals and have come to France without a French-delivered visa.
The entry points are well known anyway: international airports, and several motorway points along its land borders. That's how 'illegals' enter France.
There is not enough cooperation between Shengen countries, for the good reasons that illegals are a problem in some countries, and not in others. The Italian coastline is like a sieve, but Italy knows that most illegals will head for France anyway. Mediteranean countries are very weak on immigratyion enforcement anyway.
If you don't control all point points of entry - i.e. newly rediscovered borders, this amounts to an impossible task. Just imagine thousands of people wandering freely across borders and the police having to make out legal from illegals once they're inside the territory ? Racial profiling by police forces is already too much of a problem, French citizens have started taking the State to court for that.
ronan

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#17
Apr 26, 2012
 

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Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't control all point points of entry - i.e. newly rediscovered borders, this amounts to an impossible task. Just imagine thousands of people wandering freely across borders and the police having to make out legal from illegals once they're inside the territory ? Racial profiling by police forces is already too much of a problem, French citizens have started taking the State to court for that.
Like I said, there are different way to flush out illegals from a country.
Or you go after them by chasing individuals, or you prevent them to access public services: employement, national health, education, benefits, lodging, etc..

If you force the bodies dispensing these services (employers, doctors, hospitals, schools, social security, landlords, housing services) to check the immigration status of applicants, and prevent them to dispense their services to illegals, many will stop entering France.

There is a lot more that can be done than simply having border guards. Enforce hefty fines and even prison sentences for those who aid or abait illegals. Bring rewards for people denouncing illegals, etc...
the examiner

Montréal, Canada

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#18
Apr 26, 2012
 

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ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said, there are different way to flush out illegals from a country.
Or you go after them by chasing individuals, or you prevent them to access public services: employement, national health, education, benefits, lodging, etc..
If you force the bodies dispensing these services (employers, doctors, hospitals, schools, social security, landlords, housing services) to check the immigration status of applicants, and prevent them to dispense their services to illegals, many will stop entering France.
There is a lot more that can be done than simply having border guards. Enforce hefty fines and even prison sentences for those who aid or abait illegals. Bring rewards for people denouncing illegals, etc...
Many north Africans have their own businesses like couscous restaurants or grocery stores. They can employ those immigrants. Also the Chinese can work in China town as laundry men waiters and cooks :-)

To enter a public service in France you have to sit a "concour" which consists of a written exam and an oral one because there are so many applicants. Immigrants will be eliminated at the oral one any way.

Each member country in the EU has their own method to prevent illegal immigrants from entering their country. In France, a person gets checked by the police for identification all the time, in the subway, while driving a car, even while walking on the street. That is why Marine le Pen wants to increase the police force by 30,000 men. As for the UK, citizens don't have a national Id card like in France. Once you are in the country you are good. That explains why the border check.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/Rx81f1Z7qU0
ronan

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#19
Apr 26, 2012
 

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the examiner wrote:
<quoted text>
Many north Africans have their own businesses like couscous restaurants or grocery stores. They can employ those immigrants. Also the Chinese can work in China town as laundry men waiters and cooks :-)
To enter a public service in France you have to sit a "concour" which consists of a written exam and an oral one because there are so many applicants. Immigrants will be eliminated at the oral one any way.
Each member country in the EU has their own method to prevent illegal immigrants from entering their country. In France, a person gets checked by the police for identification all the time, in the subway, while driving a car, even while walking on the street. That is why Marine le Pen wants to increase the police force by 30,000 men. As for the UK, citizens don't have a national Id card like in France. Once you are in the country you are good. That explains why the border check.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/Rx81f1Z7qU0
Employers could be forced to keep a staff register and then checked regulary by immigration services. Heavy fines and prison terms, seizure of business should be introduced for those found employing illegals.
Illegals shouldn't in principle be allowed to apply for government jobs, or there is a massive failure there!
Random checks in the streets are discretional, and can be discriminating. They are not a good methods to detect illegals, but a sure way to annoy the legal immigrants. Profiling is a sort of racial harassment.
Illegals being bared from most services (employement, welfare, public health, housing,travelling, education, etc...) by empowering these services with the right to check identity and immigration status is the best way.
An illegal who cannot work, travel, find accommodation, be medically treated, send his kids to school, etc... will soon find life unberable. Once detected, his deportation should be immediate without any right of appeal.
Countries should make entering their terrotories illegally a criminal offense. Also, they should stop offering assylum to refugees. That is the largest percentage of illegals.
the examiner

Montréal, Canada

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#20
Apr 26, 2012
 
ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
Employers could be forced to keep a staff register and then checked regulary by immigration services. Heavy fines and prison terms, seizure of business should be introduced for those found employing illegals.
Illegals shouldn't in principle be allowed to apply for government jobs, or there is a massive failure there!
Random checks in the streets are discretional, and can be discriminating. They are not a good methods to detect illegals, but a sure way to annoy the legal immigrants. Profiling is a sort of racial harassment.
Illegals being bared from most services (employement, welfare, public health, housing,travelling, education, etc...) by empowering these services with the right to check identity and immigration status is the best way.
An illegal who cannot work, travel, find accommodation, be medically treated, send his kids to school, etc... will soon find life unberable. Once detected, his deportation should be immediate without any right of appeal.
Countries should make entering their terrotories illegally a criminal offense. Also, they should stop offering assylum to refugees. That is the largest percentage of illegals.
Ideally, non EU members should be checked for Identification at the border. Many countries let them in so they can spend money in the country. Illegal immigrants don't come empty handed. They come with 3000 or 5000 euros in their pockets. And who knows if they are just transitting and the final destination is some where else.
Dane T

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#21
Apr 26, 2012
 
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't control all point points of entry - i.e. newly rediscovered borders, this amounts to an impossible task. Just imagine thousands of people wandering freely across borders and the police having to make out legal from illegals once they're inside the territory ? Racial profiling by police forces is already too much of a problem, French citizens have started taking the State to court for that.
Racial Profiling is vital to maintaining the rule of law.
People will just have to "man up"!

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