Global Economy: Faith in revival put to test

Sep 29, 2013 Full story: Reuters 8

Yet another budget showdown in Washington and yet another government crisis in Italy herald more turbulence for a global economy growing well below trend.

Full Story

“Moderately yours....”

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#1 Sep 29, 2013
The US economy is finally gaining a bit a steam.
Propelling the world economy towards an uncertain recovery.
The US consumer has finally started to climb out from under household debt.

A couple of dozen Ice-Holes in the house don't give a crap about any of that.
They know damn well ACA will not be defunded...
They are wiling to put the US and world economy at risk to make a mute point...
Lance Winslow

San Jose, CA

#2 Sep 29, 2013
Buffalo Bull wrote:
The US economy is finally gaining a bit a steam.
Propelling the world economy towards an uncertain recovery.
The US consumer has finally started to climb out from under household debt.
A couple of dozen Ice-Holes in the house don't give a crap about any of that.
They know damn well ACA will not be defunded...
They are wiling to put the US and world economy at risk to make a mute point...
Voters know this.

“Open your eyes”

Since: Sep 09

Central Florida

#4 Sep 30, 2013
Buffalo Bull wrote:
The US economy is finally gaining a bit a steam.
Based on what? The numbers do not show it.

Last jobs report showed what, 197k jobs created (something in that range). However, 97% of those were low paying part time service jobs.

Full time manufacturing jobs decreased by 228k.

Wall street has gotten bigger due to influx of money through QE3. Where the Federal Reserve is dumping $85B/mo into these banks buying up CDO's and MBS's. In essence, the Federal Reserve is doing the exact same thing that the Bank of England did during the Napoleanic Wars by buying up the country for pennies on the dollar.

Your comment is nothing more than media talking points put out by the WH with no numbers to back it up.

Is there a recovery? for the uber rich there is. The average median household income is in the range of $50k/yr. That has caused the widest gap between the rich and poor in over 40 years.

“Moderately yours....”

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#5 Sep 30, 2013
Kahoki wrote:
<quoted text>
Based on what? The numbers do not show it.
Last jobs report showed what, 197k jobs created (something in that range). However, 97% of those were low paying part time service jobs.
Full time manufacturing jobs decreased by 228k.
Wall street has gotten bigger due to influx of money through QE3. Where the Federal Reserve is dumping $85B/mo into these banks buying up CDO's and MBS's. In essence, the Federal Reserve is doing the exact same thing that the Bank of England did during the Napoleanic Wars by buying up the country for pennies on the dollar.
Your comment is nothing more than media talking points put out by the WH with no numbers to back it up.
Is there a recovery? for the uber rich there is. The average median household income is in the range of $50k/yr. That has caused the widest gap between the rich and poor in over 40 years.
When it comes to unemployment the fact is it has lagged behind other statistics, typically it is the last stat to recover.
The manufacturing decline is in line with long term trends. Or are you attempting to say the manufacturing sector was in great condition in 2008? There has been some life in manufacturing in the last year or so. But these companies swim up stream because of 'free trade'. Here the President has taken action. He had called China on its currency valuation , copyright infringement and on its hacking and spying. A far more aggressive stance than any President has taken since H.W. former ambassador to China began the habit of treating China as if it were a capitalist nation.
I find it amusing that in your final paragraph you decry the inequity in wealth. At the same time I would be willing to bet that you defend Lower tax rates on the wealthy and industries, and consider cutting to nothing the capital gains tax as 'Job Creation'. Are you for raising wages... Or taxing profits?....Pro union as a means of extracting better deals for their workers? Or supporting programs that are bail outs for workers who have fallen between the cracks

“Open your eyes”

Since: Sep 09

Central Florida

#6 Sep 30, 2013
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
When it comes to unemployment the fact is it has lagged behind other statistics, typically it is the last stat to recover.
The manufacturing decline is in line with long term trends. Or are you attempting to say the manufacturing sector was in great condition in 2008? There has been some life in manufacturing in the last year or so. But these companies swim up stream because of 'free trade'. Here the President has taken action. He had called China on its currency valuation , copyright infringement and on its hacking and spying. A far more aggressive stance than any President has taken since H.W. former ambassador to China began the habit of treating China as if it were a capitalist nation.
I find it amusing that in your final paragraph you decry the inequity in wealth. At the same time I would be willing to bet that you defend Lower tax rates on the wealthy and industries, and consider cutting to nothing the capital gains tax as 'Job Creation'. Are you for raising wages... Or taxing profits?....Pro union as a means of extracting better deals for their workers? Or supporting programs that are bail outs for workers who have fallen between the cracks
Manufacturing has been a long term decline. Thanks to NAFTA and other off shoring. Of course people in general forget that back in the 70's-90's Russia was behind Iron curtain and China was behind the Bamboo curtain, and India? Well who gave a damn about India?

I completely disagree with the statement that the President has taken action regarding China and other emerging markets. Rhetoric is one thing, action is another and by their deeds you shall know them. He has not done a damn thing. Are we out of NAFTA? Are we out of the other Free trade associations? Have import tariffs gone up to make US manufacturing a leader in the US? NOPE. So to say he has taken action is laughable. He has used rhetoric only.

Regarding the currency you mentioned and his action, its all smoke and mirrors. We are in the middle of a 1930's style currency war and we are losing. Why? Because we do not hardly manufacture anything, unless it revolves around the military industrial complex.

I pointed to the wealth divide as an example of the complete destruction of the middle class. A thriving and rebuilding economy will begin to see growth in a middle class populace. However, there is no growth in the size of the middle class, only more destruction. And those fat cat bankers betting with our money make even more through betting on derivatives and sucking from the tit of the Federal Reserve's $85B/mo.

“Moderately yours....”

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#7 Sep 30, 2013
Kahoki wrote:
<quoted text>
Manufacturing has been a long term decline. Thanks to NAFTA and other off shoring. Of course people in general forget that back in the 70's-90's Russia was behind Iron curtain and China was behind the Bamboo curtain, and India? Well who gave a damn about India?
I completely disagree with the statement that the President has taken action regarding China and other emerging markets. Rhetoric is one thing, action is another and by their deeds you shall know them. He has not done a damn thing. Are we out of NAFTA? Are we out of the other Free trade associations? Have import tariffs gone up to make US manufacturing a leader in the US? NOPE. So to say he has taken action is laughable. He has used rhetoric only.
Regarding the currency you mentioned and his action, its all smoke and mirrors. We are in the middle of a 1930's style currency war and we are losing. Why? Because we do not hardly manufacture anything, unless it revolves around the military industrial complex.
I pointed to the wealth divide as an example of the complete destruction of the middle class. A thriving and rebuilding economy will begin to see growth in a middle class populace. However, there is no growth in the size of the middle class, only more destruction. And those fat cat bankers betting with our money make even more through betting on derivatives and sucking from the tit of the Federal Reserve's $85B/mo.
The first paragraph i agree with. Adding the statement we can not treat China as if it is a Capitalist nation. That is a huge part of our problem.
In the second paragraph ...It is undeniable that Obama has taken a firmer position with China than any of his predecessors. from Nixon on actually. While some of it has been hot air that hot air runs into angry replies from the Pro - Business faction in congress, my partners say protectionist when I get my back up about China. We could be safe in saying that we agree more should be done
In the last paragraph you make a good case for further regulation of the banking industry, I am willing to see that.
However you fail to mention taxes. There is a direct link between low taxes and high levels of income disparity. If we can not reign in the super rich, and with the courts hostile to reigning them in politically ( citizens united) then the only card left to play is to tax them. If you got a better idea on how to take some of that cash back ... I will listen

“Open your eyes”

Since: Sep 09

Central Florida

#8 Sep 30, 2013
Buffalo Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
The first paragraph i agree with. Adding the statement we can not treat China as if it is a Capitalist nation. That is a huge part of our problem.
In the second paragraph ...It is undeniable that Obama has taken a firmer position with China than any of his predecessors. from Nixon on actually. While some of it has been hot air that hot air runs into angry replies from the Pro - Business faction in congress, my partners say protectionist when I get my back up about China. We could be safe in saying that we agree more should be done
In the last paragraph you make a good case for further regulation of the banking industry, I am willing to see that.
However you fail to mention taxes. There is a direct link between low taxes and high levels of income disparity. If we can not reign in the super rich, and with the courts hostile to reigning them in politically ( citizens united) then the only card left to play is to tax them. If you got a better idea on how to take some of that cash back ... I will listen
We the people will never get the tax dollars back. Not when Washington is bought and paid for by the same interest that are getting the breaks in the first place.

People also forget that the revolution was truly started because of money, it's issuance, tax rate of 2%, and a depression forced upon the colonists by the Bank of England.

There is only one way to get it back. As much as I am hesitant to say it. But, when people lose everything and have nothing left to lose, they lose it. And that is through revolution.

Let's just say hypothetically that the people were able to gain control of their government from the bankers that have bought it off (of course assuming the people elected were not put up there and were nothing more than stooges for corporate interest only **cough***cou-Rubio-gh******co ugh***. In that event, the uber rich (mega banks) would just take their cash and leave. So the people would have no way of getting it back anyways.

The money that has been siphoned out of the markets through fraud and government waste is gone. Write it off as a loss. The people will never see it again. And with that write off, all the debt should be written off as well as fraudulent. For "we the people" did not approve of it.

The true problem economically, all of it, revolves around monetary policy. And our monetary system is debt based. We are witnessing the collapse of a debt based system.

Any type of tax adjustments, tariffs, etc.. will mean nothing until the monetary policy is addressed and corrected. And no, do not go to a gold back currency. No currency should be backed in a commodity. For who controls the controlling assets of the commodity controls the value of the currency. And the people will be right back where they are now. The borrower becomes servant of the lender.

“Moderately yours....”

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#9 Sep 30, 2013
Kahoki wrote:
<quoted text>
We the people will never get the tax dollars back. Not when Washington is bought and paid for by the same interest that are getting the breaks in the first place.
People also forget that the revolution was truly started because of money, it's issuance, tax rate of 2%, and a depression forced upon the colonists by the Bank of England.
There is only one way to get it back. As much as I am hesitant to say it. But, when people lose everything and have nothing left to lose, they lose it. And that is through revolution.
Let's just say hypothetically that the people were able to gain control of their government from the bankers that have bought it off (of course assuming the people elected were not put up there and were nothing more than stooges for corporate interest only **cough***cou-Rubio-gh******co ugh***. In that event, the uber rich (mega banks) would just take their cash and leave. So the people would have no way of getting it back anyways.
The money that has been siphoned out of the markets through fraud and government waste is gone. Write it off as a loss. The people will never see it again. And with that write off, all the debt should be written off as well as fraudulent. For "we the people" did not approve of it.
The true problem economically, all of it, revolves around monetary policy. And our monetary system is debt based. We are witnessing the collapse of a debt based system.
Any type of tax adjustments, tariffs, etc.. will mean nothing until the monetary policy is addressed and corrected. And no, do not go to a gold back currency. No currency should be backed in a commodity. For who controls the controlling assets of the commodity controls the value of the currency. And the people will be right back where they are now. The borrower becomes servant of the lender.
i am an optimist.You sayng the only way to gain control is through revolution strikes me as premature and pessimistic.
There was no society more geared to the wealthy than the 'Robber Barron' era. Yet through Progressive acton an imperfect social settlement came into place were Vanderbilt's and Rockefeller's property was taken, split up an sold off. By the time of the Great Depression wealth inequities grew to similar size. War and The New Deal and unions helped to rectify that.
And here we are again. Wrestling with a crisis spawned by ...income inequities.
My bet is we will find an imperfect solution that brings us forward for a couple decades. then like wind and rain the big money guys will erode that solution.
You are correct about monetary policy being debt driven. That wont change until the first portion of the proposition happens. Balanced budgets come about by expanding the consumer class, the middle class. The more money in the middle the better tolerated are low marginal rates.
Finally with the worlds favorite currency still being the dollar, playing chicken really is quite silly

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