Who is and is not Wiccan [tm all rights reserved]

Feb 13, 2008 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Non Fluffy Wicca

“My dog's better than your dog cuz he eats Ken-L-Ration”

I made a grievous mistake. I posted a comment to the nonfluffypagans list on Live Journal, calling into question the statement that one cannot be a Wiccan unless one has been initiated into a coven with ... via Non Fluffy Wicca

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1 - 20 of 28 Comments Last updated Aug 10, 2011
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“COWBOY UP!”

Since: Mar 08

Gainesville Texas

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#1
Oct 7, 2008
 

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poopy head????? how old are you??

“Dance with Fire- Boycott BS”

Since: Apr 07

Moon

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#2
Oct 7, 2008
 

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Gardner never said all Wiccans came only from his covens. He believed that there were other similar groups in the British Isle doing similar things (even if they didn't have the add-on stuff from him and Doreen). Indeed the whole lineage crackdown only started once Wicca came to the US. In one aspect, that could be helpful, because the US is a lot bigger then the UK, and people could come out of the blue and claim anything. Unfortunately, it has become very political & petty.

These days, within America there is a decided rift between the "Hard Gards" and well, the rest of us Gardnerians.

Old Dorothy was proven to exist as a real human being, but nothing can be substiated about connections she might have. There is also much evidence of witches, cunning folk, and groups of said people existing before Gardner as well (Pickingill).

I think Gardner labeled it Wicca becuase he knew he was adding onto what existed before him. He also stated that Witchcraft- not Wicca, was ancient.

Misconceptions or theories about Gardner aside, I think that being Wiccan is about doing. If you are doing the things that are core to Wicca, then you are.

“I Support Same-Sex Marriage”

Since: Sep 08

Ankh-Morpork

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#3
Oct 7, 2008
 
I am more of a pagan than a wiccan.
But when people ask me what my belief is.
Its simpler just to say wiccan.
In England (from my understanding anyways), Wicca mostly means Gardnerian or Alexandrian.
But in the states, wicca is used as an umbrella term for Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Seax-wica, Feri, Reclaiming, Dianic, Celtic, Strega, ect, ect, ect, and a lot of others.
Safety in numbers is what you could call it I guess. Basicly, my point is that just because someone said that they are wiccan, does not mean they follow the same path as you.
And frankly, I'm glad.
If we all folowed the exact belief system, we would be just another boring religion

“A different view”

Since: Sep 08

West Riding

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#4
Oct 7, 2008
 
bethieanna wrote:
I am more of a pagan than a wiccan.
But when people ask me what my belief is.
Its simpler just to say wiccan.
In England (from my understanding anyways), Wicca mostly means Gardnerian or Alexandrian.
But in the states, wicca is used as an umbrella term for Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Seax-wica, Feri, Reclaiming, Dianic, Celtic, Strega, ect, ect, ect, and a lot of others.
Safety in numbers is what you could call it I guess. Basicly, my point is that just because someone said that they are wiccan, does not mean they follow the same path as you.
And frankly, I'm glad.
If we all folowed the exact belief system, we would be just another boring religion
Your comments regarding English Wiccans are pretty much correct, reading the actual topic, i have to say that Dorothy Clutterbuck did indeed exist, but coming out so to speak at that time wasnt always easy or indeed wise, how lucky we are these days.
Tailkinker

Chatfield, MN

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#5
Oct 7, 2008
 
Originally I called my spirituality Wiccan-symply because I came in having never known that there was a Pagan Community or that Wicca was not the only pagan spirituality. Having quickly learned how little I knew I began to educate myself about wicca and paganism and all the many many faiths that make up our beautiful and diverse Pagan Community. Now I simply call myself a Pagan or a Witch. I am not Wiccan-though in my fluffiest bunny stage I saw that as being interchangeable with Witch. I am a neophyte still after two years. I dedicated myself to the Lady and Lord-but not to a single religion and I have yet to feel the need to quantify myself in any manner.

I haven't yet reached a point where I feel I have anything to teach anyone-but most people I meet teach me something.

“COWBOY UP!”

Since: Mar 08

Gainesville Texas

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#6
Oct 7, 2008
 

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i refer to those who sit there and live to watch endless episodes of charmed and actually think that is how wicca really is and those call themselves pagan how obviously dont have a clue about what being pagan is and what it means to be a pagan but walk around wearing pentacles out in the open just to say hey look at me... however there are those of us you do wear it out in the open and thats ok.. but if you do that you are asking for whatever people have to offer to embarrass you that or start some religious fight.. you know that whole my god can kick your gods butt attitude/arguement..but those who do it just to be cool or rebelous or simply want attention i call them playgans and fluff bunnys wannabe's

“COWBOY UP!”

Since: Mar 08

Gainesville Texas

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#7
Oct 7, 2008
 

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but that whole poopy head thing kills LOL i cant help but laugh at it

“NM Desert Rat”

Since: Mar 08

Elephant Butte, N.M.

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#8
Oct 8, 2008
 

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What a poopy head. This is poorly researched, poorly written and much to do about nothing.

“COWBOY UP!”

Since: Mar 08

Gainesville Texas

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#9
Oct 8, 2008
 

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i didn't care for the article.. but i'm not going to insult the personfor writting it ... it was probably hand me down information anyway

“WOOH!!”

Since: May 08

Vallejo, CA

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#10
Oct 9, 2008
 

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It does open up an interesting discussion, though. Over the debate of who gets to use what label to describe themselves. Do any of us have the right to tell another, "You can't use that word to describe yourself", because they don't fit our definition of what that word means?

Is it right for a Gardnerian to tell someone, "You shouldn't call yourself a Wiccan, because you don't follow the teachings of Gardner"? Personally, I think it's ridiculous for another Witch to tell me that I'm not a "real" Witch/Pagan, because I follow an eclectic path.

On the other hand, what to do about the nutjobs that use our faith as a justification for evil? For example, those who have been convicted of molesting teenagers by using the allure of Witchcraft to gain access??

Since: Feb 08

ANOKA, MN

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#11
Oct 9, 2008
 
It's as bad as the Christians who argue that Catholics or Baptists or Evangelicals are more Christian than the others, or aren't Christian at all. Of course, if you do not practice Gardnerian, you can't call yourself Gardnerian, but you're still wiccan if you want to call yourself that, and pagan if you want to call yourself that. If you practice Dianic, you wouldn't call yourself Alexandrian; if your Gardnerian, you wouldn't call yourself Eclectic - but they're all Wiccan. Catholics don't call themselves Baptists; but they're all Christian.

“COWBOY UP!”

Since: Mar 08

Gainesville Texas

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#12
Oct 9, 2008
 

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NiftyWitch wrote:
It does open up an interesting discussion, though. Over the debate of who gets to use what label to describe themselves. Do any of us have the right to tell another, "You can't use that word to describe yourself", because they don't fit our definition of what that word means?
Is it right for a Gardnerian to tell someone, "You shouldn't call yourself a Wiccan, because you don't follow the teachings of Gardner"? Personally, I think it's ridiculous for another Witch to tell me that I'm not a "real" Witch/Pagan, because I follow an eclectic path.
On the other hand, what to do about the nutjobs that use our faith as a justification for evil? For example, those who have been convicted of molesting teenagers by using the allure of Witchcraft to gain access??
absolutely no one should have the right to say you are not a witch or anything else soley based on ones path or someone follows a different path. thats the beauty of being a pagan there are many paths and wiccan just being one of them.. as for the people that use witchcraft to do any wrong doing well we all know what will happen to them.. key words HARM NONE

“WOOH!!”

Since: May 08

Vallejo, CA

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#13
Oct 9, 2008
 
I've actually heard some Fundies state that Catholics aren't actual Christians, LOL!

“COWBOY UP!”

Since: Mar 08

Gainesville Texas

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#14
Oct 9, 2008
 
DaBroad wrote:
It's as bad as the Christians who argue that Catholics or Baptists or Evangelicals are more Christian than the others, or aren't Christian at all. Of course, if you do not practice Gardnerian, you can't call yourself Gardnerian, but you're still wiccan if you want to call yourself that, and pagan if you want to call yourself that. If you practice Dianic, you wouldn't call yourself Alexandrian; if your Gardnerian, you wouldn't call yourself Eclectic - but they're all Wiccan. Catholics don't call themselves Baptists; but they're all Christian.
not pagans are wiccan but all wiccans are pagan

“COWBOY UP!”

Since: Mar 08

Gainesville Texas

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#15
Oct 9, 2008
 
ooops i meant not all pagans are wiccan

Since: Feb 08

ANOKA, MN

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#16
Oct 9, 2008
 

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It seems to me that most people who take it upon themselves to decide who is and isn't a Wiccan are doing so for their own benefit. Those who crow about their knowledge and lord it over others usually do it for their own aggrandizement. I tend to not trust self-proclaimed experts. I will listen patiently, then test and confirm their "knowledge" for myself. I've gleaned the most information, insight and wisdom from those who quietly go about their ways, sharing only when asked or when needed.

“COWBOY UP!”

Since: Mar 08

Gainesville Texas

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#17
Oct 9, 2008
 
DaBroad wrote:
It seems to me that most people who take it upon themselves to decide who is and isn't a Wiccan are doing so for their own benefit. Those who crow about their knowledge and lord it over others usually do it for their own aggrandizement. I tend to not trust self-proclaimed experts. I will listen patiently, then test and confirm their "knowledge" for myself. I've gleaned the most information, insight and wisdom from those who quietly go about their ways, sharing only when asked or when needed.
and thats the way it should be.. but there are those who just dont see it that way

“NM Desert Rat”

Since: Mar 08

Elephant Butte, N.M.

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#18
Oct 10, 2008
 

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DaBroad wrote:
It seems to me that most people who take it upon themselves to decide who is and isn't a Wiccan are doing so for their own benefit. Those who crow about their knowledge and lord it over others usually do it for their own aggrandizement. I tend to not trust self-proclaimed experts. I will listen patiently, then test and confirm their "knowledge" for myself. I've gleaned the most information, insight and wisdom from those who quietly go about their ways, sharing only when asked or when needed.
I agree with you. I get very leery of those who spout off titles, degrees, heritage and other self proclaimed expertise. For the most part these people are legends in their own minds. Nobody has a right to say who is Wiccan or not.

“COWBOY UP!”

Since: Mar 08

Gainesville Texas

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#19
Oct 10, 2008
 

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who is to say who is and who is not? just because someone is claiming to be wiccan but doesn't follow whatever path one deems as standard doesn't make them any less wiccan....
but if you are going to claim that you are wiccan then be wiccan and dont pretend to be one day and call yourself something else the next... i have issues with that because we (wiccans) all ready have a bad name ,we dont need any help with making it worst

“death”

Since: Aug 11

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#20
Aug 4, 2011
 

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I am pagan not wiccan and I agree with chevydude i dont like the wanna be wiccans or pagans that really dont know what they are talking about we all already have a bad name even tho it is clearing up some we dont need idiots making it worse

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