Q+A: The 'Buffett Rule,' a minimum ta...

Q+A: The 'Buffett Rule,' a minimum tax on the rich

There are 241 comments on the Reuters story from Apr 15, 2012, titled Q+A: The 'Buffett Rule,' a minimum tax on the rich. In it, Reuters reports that:

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“ALL LIVES MATTER!!!”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#239 Apr 21, 2012
Chicago Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
My math is just fine.
If you wish to take issue with it, please do so specifically.
Then prove it. Show me the link! Obama has created more debt then all other presidents combined!
frank

Oakland, CA

#241 Apr 21, 2012
Retired SOF wrote:
<quoted text>
Then prove it. Show me the link! Obama has created more debt then all other presidents combined!
How so, Gdub presided ove $9 trillion of debt - what are you trying to get at?- facts be damned!
There is a very good reason why Obama spent his trillions and it is hardly his fault that the world’s economy ended up in a ditch. The US economy is on the mend, unlike Europe, thanks to Obama’s persistence fighting the GOPers obstructionism! He actually explained it very well along the way, all you friggen wingnuz had to do is listen but you can only lead a horse to the well you can’t make it drink! The latest reports by the GAO shows that Obama’s stimulus investments (TARP) in the US economy will generate profits into the US Treasury!

“ALL LIVES MATTER!!!”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#242 Apr 21, 2012
frank wrote:
<quoted text>
How so, Gdub presided ove $9 trillion of debt - what are you trying to get at?- facts be damned!
There is a very good reason why Obama spent his trillions and it is hardly his fault that the world’s economy ended up in a ditch. The US economy is on the mend, unlike Europe, thanks to Obama’s persistence fighting the GOPers obstructionism! He actually explained it very well along the way, all you friggen wingnuz had to do is listen but you can only lead a horse to the well you can’t make it drink! The latest reports by the GAO shows that Obama’s stimulus investments (TARP) in the US economy will generate profits into the US Treasury!
Obama added $5 trillion in only 3 years with NO END IN SIGHT, No BUDGET in 3 + years, and Obama could not get his budget passed in a DEMOCRAT controlled SENATE!!! This is Obama economy and NO ONE ELSES!
See the Light

El Paso, TX

#243 Apr 21, 2012
Retired SOF wrote:
<quoted text>
Obama added $5 trillion in only 3 years with NO END IN SIGHT, No BUDGET in 3 + years, and Obama could not get his budget passed in a DEMOCRAT controlled SENATE!!! This is Obama economy and NO ONE ELSES!
Funny how they blamed Bush for 911 and Hurricane Katrina, yet Obama blames everything wrong on someone else. That guy is such a cowardly wimp-he can never take responsibility for anything. He's been President now for 4 yrs. It's time to say the buck stops with me.
frank

Oakland, CA

#244 Apr 22, 2012
See the Light wrote:
<quoted text>Funny how they blamed Bush for 911 and Hurricane Katrina, yet Obama blames everything wrong on someone else. That guy is such a cowardly wimp-he can never take responsibility for anything. He's been President now for 4 yrs. It's time to say the buck stops with me.
Last week, Newt Gingrich slammed Fox News for “bias” and “distortion.” Gingrich claimed that the conservative news channel slanted its coverage to favor the less conservative establishment candidate, Mitt Romney. But accusing Fox News of pro-establishment bias is not simply a quirk of the Gingrich mind. In mid-March, Rick Santorum (like Gingrich, a former Fox News contributor) accused the network of boosting for Romney.“He has Fox News shilling for him every day,” Santorum grumbled to Fox News host Brian Kilmeade.“No offense, Brian, but I see it Fox News is morphing into just another liberal leaning voice.” But it gets better it stoked outrage among the base, Rush Limbaugh dismissed FOX News as part of the “Republican establishment media.”

“ALL LIVES MATTER!!!”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#245 Apr 22, 2012
See the Light wrote:
<quoted text>Funny how they blamed Bush for 911 and Hurricane Katrina, yet Obama blames everything wrong on someone else. That guy is such a cowardly wimp-he can never take responsibility for anything. He's been President now for 4 yrs. It's time to say the buck stops with me.
CORRECT!! We,as a nation, have been leaderless for the last 3+ years!
frank

Oakland, CA

#246 Apr 22, 2012
Retired SOF wrote:
<quoted text>
Obama added $5 trillion in only 3 years with NO END IN SIGHT, No BUDGET in 3 + years, and Obama could not get his budget passed in a DEMOCRAT controlled SENATE!!! This is Obama economy and NO ONE ELSES!
I call it wningnuz logic, somehow 9 trillion debt in 8 years is better debt than 4 trillion in 2 years - what a concept :-) It’s not like Obama had a choice, he had to revive the failing economy by infusing huge amounts of dollars into it!
The only reason congress won't pass a budget is because it is politically untenable for the cowards in the US congress

“ALL LIVES MATTER!!!”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#247 Apr 22, 2012
frank wrote:
<quoted text>
I call it wningnuz logic, somehow 9 trillion debt in 8 years is better debt than 4 trillion in 2 years - what a concept :-) It’s not like Obama had a choice, he had to revive the failing economy by infusing huge amounts of dollars into it!
The only reason congress won't pass a budget is because it is politically untenable for the cowards in the US congress
A Democrat controlled House NEVER passed a budget for the first 2 years of Big"O"'s reign. NOW the Senate won't get it to the floor for a vote AND Obama has submitted a budget, but it never got pasted a DEMOCRAT controlled SENATE!! WHY? He has the votes. All he needs is 50 + 1 to pass!? But it didn't happen!
Obama's budgets DON'T balance the budget,EVER!! So which is worse? Double the debt in 8 years with an attempt to balance the budget or trillion dollar deficts for decades with NO attempt to balance the budget EVER!?
Chicago Guy

Winnetka, IL

#248 Apr 22, 2012
Retired SOF wrote:
<quoted text>
Then prove it. Show me the link! Obama has created more debt then all other presidents combined!
Prove what, exactly?

Obama got the Stimulus, and half of TARP to spend. With the money back from TARP, that means he's spent well under $1 trillion in discretionary spending his first term.

The rest is Bush wars, Bush tax cuts, Bush drug benefits, and the basic operating fund for the US government.

These are facts.
Chicago Guy

Winnetka, IL

#249 Apr 22, 2012
Retired SOF wrote:
<quoted text>
Obama added $5 trillion in only 3 years with NO END IN SIGHT, No BUDGET in 3 + years, and Obama could not get his budget passed in a DEMOCRAT controlled SENATE!!! This is Obama economy and NO ONE ELSES!
And currently it's improving.

Jobs are coming back, slowly but surely.
Home prices are rebounding.
The markets are back near record highs.
Consumer confidence is up.

Again, these are facts. Sorry.
frank

Oakland, CA

#250 Apr 22, 2012
Retired SOF wrote:
<quoted text>
A Democrat controlled House NEVER passed a budget for the first 2 years of Big"O"'s reign. NOW the Senate won't get it to the floor for a vote AND Obama has submitted a budget, but it never got pasted a DEMOCRAT controlled SENATE!! WHY? He has the votes. All he needs is 50 + 1 to pass!? But it didn't happen!
Obama's budgets DON'T balance the budget,EVER!! So which is worse? Double the debt in 8 years with an attempt to balance the budget or trillion dollar deficts for decades with NO attempt to balance the budget EVER!?
Sorry I forgot about Obama’s magic wand, in the present financial climate no one is going to balance a budget- except with the magic wand!
The right-wingnuz have built a whole “alternative knowledge system,” with its own facts, its own history, its own laws of economics. Outside the system, President Obama (whatever his policy errors) is a figure of imposing intellect and dignity. Within the system, he’s a pitiful nothing, unable to speak without a teleprompter, an affirmative-action phony doomed to inevitable defeat...We used to say “You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.” Now we are all entitled to our own facts, and conservative media use this right to immerse their audience in a total environment of pseudo-facts and pretend information. The GOP has detached from reality!
frank

Oakland, CA

#251 Apr 22, 2012
Chicago Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
And currently it's improving.
Jobs are coming back, slowly but surely.
Home prices are rebounding.
The markets are back near record highs.
Consumer confidence is up.
Again, these are facts. Sorry.
We used to say “You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.” Now we are all entitled to our own facts, and conservative media use this right to immerse their audience in a total environment of pseudo-facts and pretend information. The GOPers have detached from reality!
Spocko

Oakland, CA

#252 Apr 22, 2012
The Buffett-rule sets a minimum tax for the biggest earners to ensure that they don’t use the tax rules to escape paying their “fair share.” The concept of fair shares, however, is itself not simple. The top fifth of U.S. earners earn nearly 55 per cent of the income, but pay nearly 70 per cent of all federal taxes. In other words, the U.S. already has a quite progressive tax system.
Some tax provisions disproportionately benefit the rich (like mortgage interest deductibility and tax-free municipal bonds) and perhaps should be changed. But Mr. Buffett’s tax rate has more to do with the fact that there are different kinds of income (chiefly wages, dividends and capital gains) and the tax system treats them differently.
Take dividends. Dividends are the profits distributed to a company’s owners, its stockholders. But before the company can distribute its profits it has to pay corporate income tax.
In other words the profits, which belong to the shareholders, have already been taxed before they reach their rightful owners. If, once received, they were then subject to the taxpayer’s full personal income tax rate, the effect would be double taxation of the same corporate profits — once in the hands of the company, and once in the hands of the taxpayer to whom they belong.
This, of course, is utter nonsense; it is a fun-with-numbers argument, it is an argument by the rich for the rich.
The reason that double taxation exists for shareholders is because the business in question has chosen - of its own free will - to incorporate, giving it (the business entity) the benefits of personhood, and insulating shareholders from personal loss if the business collapses.
Yes, it is true in a sense that in such circumstances, that the money, as it transfers from the business' sales down to the shareholders, passes through the funnel twice. But even aside from the benefits corporations knowingly give themselves in switching to this system, this is fairly unremarkable.
In value added manufacturing chains, taxes hit up manufacturing all down the chain too. Citizens who buy products pay tax upon tax, even in these circumstances.
So why should those who make their money from investments get off scott free? Their businesses - which are legally persons - make out like bandits, even with their tax obligations.
See the Light

El Paso, TX

#253 Apr 22, 2012
frank wrote:
<quoted text>
I call it wningnuz logic, somehow 9 trillion debt in 8 years is better debt than 4 trillion in 2 years - what a concept :-) It’s not like Obama had a choice, he had to revive the failing economy by infusing huge amounts of dollars into it!
The only reason congress won't pass a budget is because it is politically untenable for the cowards in the US congress
Frank-you need stand in the corner for that remark-Obama had 911 and Hurricane Katrina. Quit giving Obama a free pass. He's a socialist and doing what he believe's in.
Chicago Guy

Winnetka, IL

#254 Apr 22, 2012
See the Light wrote:
<quoted text>Frank-you need stand in the corner for that remark-Obama had 911 and Hurricane Katrina. Quit giving Obama a free pass. He's a socialist and doing what he believe's in.
Obama had 911 and Hurricane Katrina??
Chicago Guy

Winnetka, IL

#255 Apr 22, 2012
frank wrote:
<quoted text>
We used to say “You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.” Now we are all entitled to our own facts, and conservative media use this right to immerse their audience in a total environment of pseudo-facts and pretend information. The GOPers have detached from reality!
Agreed.
Chicago Guy

Winnetka, IL

#256 Apr 22, 2012
Spocko wrote:
The Buffett-rule sets a minimum tax for the biggest earners to ensure that they don’t use the tax rules to escape paying their “fair share.” The concept of fair shares, however, is itself not simple. The top fifth of U.S. earners earn nearly 55 per cent of the income, but pay nearly 70 per cent of all federal taxes. In other words, the U.S. already has a quite progressive tax system.
Some tax provisions disproportionately benefit the rich (like mortgage interest deductibility and tax-free municipal bonds) and perhaps should be changed. But Mr. Buffett’s tax rate has more to do with the fact that there are different kinds of income (chiefly wages, dividends and capital gains) and the tax system treats them differently.
Take dividends. Dividends are the profits distributed to a company’s owners, its stockholders. But before the company can distribute its profits it has to pay corporate income tax.
In other words the profits, which belong to the shareholders, have already been taxed before they reach their rightful owners. If, once received, they were then subject to the taxpayer’s full personal income tax rate, the effect would be double taxation of the same corporate profits — once in the hands of the company, and once in the hands of the taxpayer to whom they belong.
This, of course, is utter nonsense; it is a fun-with-numbers argument, it is an argument by the rich for the rich.
The reason that double taxation exists for shareholders is because the business in question has chosen - of its own free will - to incorporate, giving it (the business entity) the benefits of personhood, and insulating shareholders from personal loss if the business collapses.
Yes, it is true in a sense that in such circumstances, that the money, as it transfers from the business' sales down to the shareholders, passes through the funnel twice. But even aside from the benefits corporations knowingly give themselves in switching to this system, this is fairly unremarkable.
In value added manufacturing chains, taxes hit up manufacturing all down the chain too. Citizens who buy products pay tax upon tax, even in these circumstances.
So why should those who make their money from investments get off scott free? Their businesses - which are legally persons - make out like bandits, even with their tax obligations.
I though this post was headed one way-- then it zagged in the opposite direction!

I agree with your central point, though-- it is absurd to say dividends or capital gains are "double taxed".

No one calls it a double tax when an employee pays income tax. How is it any different for an investor?
frank

Oakland, CA

#258 Apr 23, 2012
See the Light wrote:
<quoted text>Frank-you need stand in the corner for that remark-Obama had 911 and Hurricane Katrina. Quit giving Obama a free pass. He's a socialist and doing what he believe's in.
What are you, a comedian? It's just like Romney's claim that Obama wants to make Americans miserable - yeah right, a sure fire re-election strategy! What is up with you wingnuz morons anyway?

“ALL LIVES MATTER!!!”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#259 Apr 23, 2012
frank wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry I forgot about Obama’s magic wand, in the present financial climate no one is going to balance a budget- except with the magic wand!
The right-wingnuz have built a whole “alternative knowledge system,” with its own facts, its own history, its own laws of economics. Outside the system, President Obama (whatever his policy errors) is a figure of imposing intellect and dignity. Within the system, he’s a pitiful nothing, unable to speak without a teleprompter, an affirmative-action phony doomed to inevitable defeat...We used to say “You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.” Now we are all entitled to our own facts, and conservative media use this right to immerse their audience in a total environment of pseudo-facts and pretend information. The GOP has detached from reality!
Look it up! No budget in how many years! Obama's campaign is straight out of "Rules For Radicals"!

“ALL LIVES MATTER!!!”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#260 Apr 23, 2012
Chicago Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove what, exactly?
Obama got the Stimulus, and half of TARP to spend. With the money back from TARP, that means he's spent well under $1 trillion in discretionary spending his first term.
The rest is Bush wars, Bush tax cuts, Bush drug benefits, and the basic operating fund for the US government.
These are facts.
Obama has ran up 5 trillion in 3 years and still counting! His budget, that he can't get past the Senate, calls for spending as far as the eye can see. He has done NOTHING about gas prices, which the last Admin did! He has done nothing about the economy, which 5% unemployment would be a great now! Obama socialised the auto industry. He shoved laws down the publics throat that we did not want! He is de-funding social security and he TOOK money from madicare to start Obama care! He started a war WITHOUT the approval of Congress! Allowed Egypt to fall to the Muslim Brotherhood, he was silent when Iranians protested. Talks sh*t about our allies. But cuddles up to our enemy when he THINKS he is off the record! You might like Chicago politics, but the rest of us don't. These are facts! PLEASE ,take him back amd let the rest of us fix this while there is still time!

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