Why the Kremlin Is So Scared of Ukraine

[Smetana]

Swandiver wrote:

All the preposterous Russian chauvinist rhetoric will not change the fact that Putinists need to relentlessly blame democracy on evil western forces.
The very idea that this phenomenon of democracy--a spontaneous democratic combustion-- has happened in Ukraine, means it could just as well happen in Russia, and the prospect of that is just too frightening for authoritarian Putin neofascists to contemplate.

Isn't it telling that some on this forum would rather have a convicted criminal (for assault and robbery) lead Ukraine rather than the man who recieved the most votes?

[Zaporozhets]

Observer wrote:

<quoted text>
Are you for real?

It's just some joker posting by proxy. Possibly even the subject herself.

[Mr Because]

Swandiver wrote:

All the preposterous Russian chauvinist rhetoric will not change the fact that Putinists need to relentlessly blame democracy on evil western forces.
The very idea that this phenomenon of democracy--a spontaneous democratic combustion-- has happened in Ukraine, means it could just as well happen in Russia, and the prospect of that is just too frightening for authoritarian Putin neofascists to contemplate.

Did you meant Russian Neocons?
I personally find NeoCon ideas quite interestin you know.

[polish guy]

right. russia + democracy = monkey + razor

[Observer]

Zaporozhets wrote:

<quoted text>
It's just some joker posting by proxy. Possibly even the subject herself.

Phew! Thank God for that!

[JohnK]

I live in Ukraine and teach English here and have for the past five years. I saw the orange revolution and many other changes. I live in Kharkov which is one of the stronger pro-Russian areas of Ukraine. I am finding the young people to want to join NATO. They realize and are seeing all the propaganda that the Russian people have to listen to. They understand it is not the truth that they are being told and this drives them away from Russian doctrine. Many of my students visit Russia on a regular basis and know the news there is not what the rest of the world knows is true.

[Mondo Cane]

JohnK wrote:

I live in Ukraine and teach English here and have for the past five years. I saw the orange revolution and many other changes. I live in Kharkov which is one of the stronger pro-Russian areas of Ukraine.

I am finding the young people to want to join NATO.

You teach English? Yet you make a fundamental error in grammar that only a non-English speaker would make?

Sounds fishy to me.

[Stefan]

polish guy wrote:

right. russia + democracy = monkey + razor

I can't stop laughing at your posting. It is so simple but ever so true. Even my kids laughed when I told them about it.

Good post.

[Stefan]

JohnK wrote:

I live in Ukraine and teach English here and have for the past five years. I saw the orange revolution and many other changes. I live in Kharkov which is one of the stronger pro-Russian areas of Ukraine. I am finding the young people to want to join NATO. They realize and are seeing all the propaganda that the Russian people have to listen to. They understand it is not the truth that they are being told and this drives them away from Russian doctrine. Many of my students visit Russia on a regular basis and know the news there is not what the rest of the world knows is true.

Good to hear John. I am very optimistic about this next generation. They will be more worldly, educated and full of potential. As long as they embrace and keep their roots.

The old generation, bless their souls, were good hard working people who were lead astray.

[Matti]

Russy wrote:

<quoted text>
:0)
I see now who is really psychopathic here ...
Ukraine has no parliament . LOL.
http://www.worldpress.org/images/20050718-ukr...
Ukraine has a circus with Clown Fighting with each other.
LMAO.

There are just similar pictures of Duma and similar circus in Russia. LOL.
I hope you understand that you have biassed opinion.

[Bear]

Stefan wrote:

<quoted text>
Good to hear John. I am very optimistic about this next generation. They will be more worldly, educated and full of potential. As long as they embrace and keep their roots.
The old generation, bless their souls, were good hard working people who were lead astray.

Well said. It IS possible to agree with one opinion and at the same time have compassion for good people who have "been led astray". You did it well. You get a star (gold nor red) on your achievement chart.:)

[Bear]

Mondo Cane wrote:

<quoted text>
You teach English? Yet you make a fundamental error in grammar that only a non-English speaker would make?
Sounds fishy to me.

My friend, you would not believe some of the grammatical mistakes I have heard and seen from people who have degrees in English. Textbook and common usage are often different. You are just looking for a "Hook" on which to hang your "Flag of Disbelief".
Give it up and accept an honest observation from someone who is on the scene.

[Mr Because]

JohnK wrote:

I live in Ukraine and teach English here and have for the past five years. I saw the orange revolution and many other changes. I live in Kharkov which is one of the stronger pro-Russian areas of Ukraine. I am finding the young people to want to join NATO. They realize and are seeing all the propaganda that the Russian people have to listen to. They understand it is not the truth that they are being told and this drives them away from Russian doctrine. Many of my students visit Russia on a regular basis and know the news there is not what the rest of the world knows is true.

What if those people are biased. And if they learn english then they are willing to cooperate with west more.
As i know plenty of people are somewhat fascinated about European and American "Achievements" and the most of those people are anti-patriotic.
Well i should also say that the majority of those with brilliant educations are anti-patriotic. Thats the disease of all slavs.

Isnt that a bias?

What is better for you? Being patriotic or on the contrary oppose any ideas of nations self determination?

After i re read plenty of information i actually figured out that Russias achievements are also no less brilliant than any other countries including US.
So i wouldnt definitely change Moscow to NYC.
Well I`d like to live somewhere in West for several years to understand your psychology better (especially New Zealand is the best ever place).

[Mr Because]

Though i have some ten times more opportunities in Russia.

[Foresttoday]

Mr Because wrote:

<quoted text>
What if those people are biased. And if they learn english then they are willing to cooperate with west more.
As i know plenty of people are somewhat fascinated about European and American "Achievements" and the most of those people are anti-patriotic.
Well i should also say that the majority of those with brilliant educations are anti-patriotic. Thats the disease of all slavs.
Isnt that a bias?
What is better for you? Being patriotic or on the contrary oppose any ideas of nations self determination?
After i re read plenty of information i actually figured out that Russias achievements are also no less brilliant than any other countries including US.
So i wouldnt definitely change Moscow to NYC.
Well I`d like to live somewhere in West for several years to understand your psychology better (especially New Zealand is the best ever place).

I would not necessarily say, "New Zeland is the best ever place". I see a lot of similarities between the U.S. and Russia. If one were to go back to the Cold War days of the 1950's, both counties were teaching their young students the same lies, only in different languages.:-) My Ukrainian wife set down and talk about those days and we laugh together. Can one imagine what the world today would be like without a leader like Stalin as the Soviet head? We may have already breached this dumb divide between our countries. I think Stalin lied so much to Churchill, and FDR that he then did not trust the things they said during the end of the war, in thought all men had the same perchant for lying that he did. The West came to the rescue of European war countries and help them rebuild into strong economic powers of their own, under our Marshall Plan. Stalin could not do the same thing as he spent much of his resources (men and material) in fighting the Germans. Between his lack of resources, and his fear Russia became a world power that did not want to join the world except to spread the word of Communism.

All we can do is dream and hope the future brings all countries peace and prosperity in the near future. Working together the Russians, western Europe and the North American could bring peace to the mid-East, Africa and the world would be a better place for all.

[Robespierre]

Foresttoday wrote:

<quoted text>
All we can do is dream and hope the future brings all countries peace and prosperity in the near future. Working together the Russians, western Europe and the North American could bring peace to the mid-East, Africa and the world would be a better place for all.

It won't work.
The USA are only interested in hegemony and world domination.
The increase of their military footprint is just one example of what they are aiming at.
They certainly won't co-operate with any country that don't swear allegiance to them.

[Stefan]

Mr Because wrote:

<quoted text>
As i know plenty of people are somewhat fascinated about European and American "Achievements" and the most of those people are anti-patriotic.
Well i should also say that the majority of those with brilliant educations are anti-patriotic. Thats the disease of all slavs.
Isnt that a bias?

No

How can the brilliant be anti-patriotic? Are you not confusing patriotism with knowledge?

As people become educated, they begin to ask more questions and don't accept the status-quo. In other words, they don't believe everything they are told.

Ukrainians are doing that these days. The young ones are deciding for themselves what they really believe. Many old Soviet ideas are being discarded.

So the brilliant should be listened to, and not accused of being anti-patriots. Their views are probably more important than many others.

[Foresttoday]

Robespierre wrote:

<quoted text>
It won't work.
The USA are only interested in hegemony and world domination.
The increase of their military footprint is just one example of what they are aiming at.
They certainly won't co-operate with any country that don't swear allegiance to them.

The only reason it will not work is because of negative people like yourself. Russia's military footprint is growing, China's military footprint is growing, and so it many other countries. But that is not the reason the world will not come together, it due to the fact that in our minds we are still at war against each other. Ukraine sent troops to Iraq and so have many other countries in the two Iraq wars. Remember the terrorist muslims think of Russians as infidels just as they look at the Western European's. The Russians and the West will one day hook up and work together, it is just a matter of time. Russia has in its (largest country in the World) more resources than any country on this planet. It cannot develope these resources and use them all by theirselves, they need the rest of the world to buy from them, send them technology. It will happen, hopefully in my lifetime.

[Robespierre]

Foresttoday wrote:

<quoted text>
The only reason it will not work is because of negative people like yourself. Russia's military footprint is growing, China's military footprint is growing, and so it many other countries. But that is not the reason the world will not come together, it due to the fact that in our minds we are still at war against each other. Ukraine sent troops to Iraq and so have many other countries in the two Iraq wars. Remember the terrorist muslims think of Russians as infidels just as they look at the Western European's. The Russians and the West will one day hook up and work together, it is just a matter of time. Russia has in its (largest country in the World) more resources than any country on this planet. It cannot develope these resources and use them all by theirselves, they need the rest of the world to buy from them, send them technology. It will happen, hopefully in my lifetime.

It will not work!
The US want world domination, not cooperation.

Russian military footprint is decreasing: they moved back all their forces within their borders when they left Eastern Europe, apart from a few in Transnpier (Moldova). Russia moved back 1000 miles when they left East Germany, Poland, etc...

China footprint hasn't changed. Still well inside its borders. Tell me where are the Chines troops abroad?

US footprint expanding in Europe to encircle Russia, and in the Middle East. The US has already taken advantage of the Russian withdrawal to recruit more countries in its imperalist NATO organisation, and move its arsenal Eastwards. The US are clearly the one who is pursuing an aggressive policy of expansion, not Russia, nor China.

The only hope is that with economic difficulties, the US military expansion will prove unsufferable for the US budget and create financial ruin for the country. The arms race is finally what brought the USSR down, and without an opponent, the US hasn't seized the chance to stop it.

Americans like wars, and accept that almost each one of their president must have a war during his mandate. That is a fact. For them, it's one way of showing power and patriotism. They still aren't tired of wars and to see their sons coming back in body bags.

[Swandiver]

Having a free democracy right next door is a pretty scary thing for Putin and the KGB capitalists.