Demonising atheism is a bad way to de...

Demonising atheism is a bad way to defend faith

There are 9 comments on the New Statesman story from Apr 2, 2010, titled Demonising atheism is a bad way to defend faith. In it, New Statesman reports that:

Atheism, like faith, is a belief about the purpose of the universe. Neither side should resort to blame games.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at New Statesman.

P Smith

Taiwan

#1 Apr 2, 2010
I posted this on that page, though whether it will be added by their moderators remains to be seen:

----------

A fact that the religious desperately avoid discussing is that morality has NOTHING to do with belief or a lack of it. Martin Luther King Jr. was a christian, and Adolf Hitler was a christian, yet the religious will attempt to claim as their own only the ones that shine in a positive light. You don't hear atheists denying that Joe Stalin was one.

The reality of history, which the religious would like to rewrite, is that the most violent and murderous groups and governments are those who claim absolute certainty, and then use that certainty as an excuse for violence. Yes, the Soviet Union was run by atheists, but it was the communist dogma that enabled its crimes. There have been many more religious regimes which have perpetrated mass murder - christian crusades, the KKK, the Nazis, islamic terrorism, imperial Japan, Thailand's buddhists...the list is seemingly endless, and all of them took the view that they were right and could do what they want. Secular societies don't do that, and have never been responsible for any atrocities anywhere.

The religious purport the lie of morality requiring religious for two reasons. It's not just to portray themselves as "morally superior", but also to rationalize and justify enacting laws to discriminate and violate those who don't share it.
Epicurus

Winter Park, FL

#2 Apr 2, 2010
P Smith wrote:
I posted this on that page, though whether it will be added by their moderators remains to be seen:
----------
A fact that the religious desperately avoid discussing is that morality has NOTHING to do with belief or a lack of it. Martin Luther King Jr. was a christian, and Adolf Hitler was a christian, yet the religious will attempt to claim as their own only the ones that shine in a positive light. You don't hear atheists denying that Joe Stalin was one.
The reality of history, which the religious would like to rewrite, is that the most violent and murderous groups and governments are those who claim absolute certainty, and then use that certainty as an excuse for violence. Yes, the Soviet Union was run by atheists, but it was the communist dogma that enabled its crimes. There have been many more religious regimes which have perpetrated mass murder - christian crusades, the KKK, the Nazis, islamic terrorism, imperial Japan, Thailand's buddhists...the list is seemingly endless, and all of them took the view that they were right and could do what they want. Secular societies don't do that, and have never been responsible for any atrocities anywhere.
The religious purport the lie of morality requiring religious for two reasons. It's not just to portray themselves as "morally superior", but also to rationalize and justify enacting laws to discriminate and violate those who don't share it.
Stalin:

In 1893, Stalin won a scholarship which allowed him to attend the Tiflis Theological Seminary. He enrolled in the seminary because his mother was deeply religious and wanted him to be a priest in the Orthodox Church. The seminary placed harsh restrictions on what students were and were not allowed to do. Some students compared the life in the Tiflis Theological Seminary to a life in prison or in the army barracks. They were forbidden to read newspapers and most non-religious books. The punishment for doing so was typically a prolonged solitary detention. However, students were allowed to move around Tiflis freely, without supervision, every day for 3 to 5 hours.

Stalin was repeatedly caught and punished for reading banned books. To protest this censorship, Stalin joined a Marxist study group which provided him with access to the reading material banned in the seminary. Eventually, Stalin became the leader of this group which even hired a scribe to provide them with a full copy of Marx Das Kapital, at that time available only in fragments. Stalin read the book twice, taking detailed notes.

Would it be safe to say that once any religion has been rejected... Atheism is the end result?

The organized religions are all about CONTROL. They have no basis in historical fact outside of their respective alleged holy books. which are ANYTHING but...!

http://www.visualstatistics.net/Catastrophe/S... 's%20Biography.htm

Theists always mention Stalin and Hitler as if they were avowed atheists with a specific atheist agenda. Nothing cound be further from the truth.

"Despite the mass of contemporary records that have been unearthed in Egypt, not one historical reference to the presence of the Israelites has yet been found there. Not a single mention of Joseph, the Pharaoh's 'Grand Vizier'. Not a word about Moses, or the spectacular flight from Egypt and the destruction of the pursuing Egyptian army."
Magnus Magnusson (The Archaeology of the Bible Lands - BC, p43)
Epicurus

Winter Park, FL

#3 Apr 2, 2010
Stalin Bio

http://www.visualstatistics.net / Catastrophe / Stalin%20Biography / Stalin's%20Biography.htm
coda

Rocky Point, NY

#4 Apr 2, 2010
Epicurus wrote:
<quoted text>
Stalin:
In 1893, Stalin won a scholarship which allowed him to attend the Tiflis Theological Seminary. He enrolled in the seminary because his mother was deeply religious and wanted him to be a priest in the Orthodox Church. The seminary placed harsh restrictions on what students were and were not allowed to do. Some students compared the life in the Tiflis Theological Seminary to a life in prison or in the army barracks. They were forbidden to read newspapers and most non-religious books. The punishment for doing so was typically a prolonged solitary detention. However, students were allowed to move around Tiflis freely, without supervision, every day for 3 to 5 hours.
Stalin was repeatedly caught and punished for reading banned books. To protest this censorship, Stalin joined a Marxist study group which provided him with access to the reading material banned in the seminary. Eventually, Stalin became the leader of this group which even hired a scribe to provide them with a full copy of Marx Das Kapital, at that time available only in fragments. Stalin read the book twice, taking detailed notes.
Would it be safe to say that once any religion has been rejected... Atheism is the end result?
The organized religions are all about CONTROL. They have no basis in historical fact outside of their respective alleged holy books. which are ANYTHING but...!
http://www.visualstatistics.net/Catastrophe/S... 's%20Biography.htm
Theists always mention Stalin and Hitler as if they were avowed atheists with a specific atheist agenda. Nothing cound be further from the truth.
"Despite the mass of contemporary records that have been unearthed in Egypt, not one historical reference to the presence of the Israelites has yet been found there. Not a single mention of Joseph, the Pharaoh's 'Grand Vizier'. Not a word about Moses, or the spectacular flight from Egypt and the destruction of the pursuing Egyptian army."
Magnus Magnusson (The Archaeology of the Bible Lands - BC, p43)
right on! had no idea that this was Stalin's background. thank you!
Epicurus

Winter Park, FL

#5 Apr 2, 2010
coda wrote:
<quoted text>
right on! had no idea that this was Stalin's background. thank you!
No problem! I like to share information!

The "Word of God", far from being inerrant, has always been a work in progress.
NotBuyingIt

Mesa, AZ

#6 Apr 2, 2010
Epicurus wrote:
Stalin Bio
http://www.visualstatistics.net / Catastrophe / Stalin%20Biography / Stalin's%20Biography.htm
just fyi - place links in quotes to prevent topix from adding spaces to do a 'justify' text alignment.

" http://www.visualstatistics.net/Catastrophe/S... ;
Epicurus

Winter Park, FL

#7 Apr 2, 2010
NotBuyingIt wrote:
<quoted text>just fyi - place links in quotes to prevent topix from adding spaces to do a 'justify' text alignment.
" http://www.visualstatistics.net/Catastrophe/S... ;
Thanks! I always post links that are informative.

Poor Adolph, he is always accused of being an atheist, even tho his speeches and Nazi party declaration indicate otherwise.

Few people know that Stalin was a seminary student. Or should I say, don't really want to know?
NotBuyingIt

Mesa, AZ

#8 Apr 2, 2010
Epicurus wrote:
Few people know that Stalin was a seminary student. Or should I say, don't really want to know?
Agreed.
And...

Your links are indeed appreciated.
Mr Smartypants

United States

#10 Apr 4, 2010
True Believers like to point out the tens of millions murdered by Stalin, Hitler, and Mao as proof of how dangerous atheism is. This is just intellectual dishonesty--it's actually the fanatical belief in quasi-religious political beliefs like Nazism and Marxism that killed all those people. Ask anybody who lived in Stalingrad or Stalinabad, or hiked in the Stalin Mountains, or lived in any one of a zillion towns with a statue of Stalin--and you'd get the impression that Stalin was some sort of secular messiah. The same dumb, blind faith that caused the Crusades and the various Inquisitions was also the same blind faith that led to Dachau and the Gulag system.

The best antidote to any sort of militant orthodoxy--Christianity, Marxism, Objectivism, fascism--is to think for yourself already...

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