Myths and falsehoods surrounding the...

Myths and falsehoods surrounding the economic recovery plan

There are 70 comments on the mediamatters.org story from Jan 29, 2009, titled Myths and falsehoods surrounding the economic recovery plan. In it, mediamatters.org reports that:

During their coverage and discussion of the economic recovery bill supported by President Obama, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act , media figures have advanced several myths and falsehoods relating to ...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at mediamatters.org.

progress

Brunswick, ME

#42 Feb 16, 2009
I'll keep an open mind and ask you to show me something that says RENTERS PAY AN EQUITABLE AMOUNT OF PROPERTY TAXES.

State records will do fine. Same for federal , county or city.

Even an essay written by some theorist would go some distance to substantiating such A FAR FETCHED CLAIM.

Now , I have not offered any insults, HOW ABOUT SOME PROOF ?
Jim Hayden wrote:
<quoted text>
Only problem with this line of thinking is the fact that renters DO pay their fair share of the taxes. Whenever I have rented I was responsible for paying the utilities which includes water, electric, sewer and garbage pick up. I also contributed to the property tax fund every time I paid my rent. You really do not think that the landlord actually pays the property taxes on the property do you? That money comes directly out of the monthly rent collected from the tenants. Just as the property maintenance, property water, property sewer, property electric, property personnel and management costs all comes directly out of the rent money collected every month.
Any landlord who does not incorporate these costs of doing business into the rent are not very smart and deserve to be forced out of business.
progress

Brunswick, ME

#43 Feb 16, 2009
For starters you are trying to compare apples and oranges. Most landlords live in a private home.

I pay property taxes on my private home.
My property taxes pay for my children to go to public school.

My property taxes pay for my children to go to public hospital.

My point is that your small fraction of property taxes that come out of your rent do not equal my property taxes.

Yet you want to send your kids to the same public school..........

Yet you want to send your kids to the same public hospital..........

Should I place the same amount of property taxes on your rent?

Is your childs education worth less than my childs education. Do I force you to rent ?

Your small fraction of property taxes buy you same size share of public services as my full payment of property taxes.

Why dont you have to pay as much as I do To get what I get?
progress

Brunswick, ME

#44 Feb 16, 2009
Dont people rent because it's cheaper?

WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT MEANS?

Since: Apr 07

Franklin, TN

#45 Feb 16, 2009
progress wrote:
Oh right, out of their welfare , disability or section 8 payments ?.....RIGHT ?
I guess you want to sell me a bridge next?
<quoted text>
I am a disabled Combat Vet and my money for my disability is a legal debt owed to me and is not a government giveaway program. Next the vast majority of people who rent also work for a living.

Sure they are working for minimum wage jobs and they make too much money to get any public assistance.

So you see you can't lump every renter into one group. Sure there are those on HUD and other government subsidized programs however they are not in the majority of renters.

I love it when certain people complain about this as they continue to vote for the same people who encourage abuses of the system.

After all I too feel that if a person fails to pay into a government system then they should not and MUST not be able to reap the benefits.

I have worked ever since I was 16 and even with a college education like so many other Vietnam Combat Vets I have only been able to get minimum or just above minimum wage jobs. The only exception was when I was self employed which lasted a few years or until the illegals put me out of business. I was into landscaping.

Some people who have paid into the system need the help while those who have not paid into the system in my opinion are abusing the system.

Since: Apr 07

Franklin, TN

#46 Feb 16, 2009
progress wrote:
Dont people rent because it's cheaper?
WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT MEANS?
There are some cases where renting is more of a convenience. I know people who rent apartments downtown because for them it is more convenient to live downtown close to where they work. In that case most of those apartment's rents are more than what a mortgage would cost.

Then there are those high security apartments where people are able to live free from fear of crime. Their rents are usually a lot higher too.

So once again you can't lump everybody into one group. We have to look at individual cases.

Since: Apr 07

Franklin, TN

#47 Feb 16, 2009
progress wrote:
No NO , i get it
Out of their SOCIAL SECURITY CHECK, yeah
OK
Social Security is not a government giveaway program. Most of the people living on Social Security like my 84 year old parents have paid into the system for OVER 60 years and they have EARNED every dime they receive and then some. They have actually been ripped off by the Democrats.

Veterans Benefits and Social Security Benefits are paid for by those receiving their benefits.

Anyone living on either who have not earned the right MUST be removed. Oh wait. We can't do that now can we?

The Democrats stole our Social Security Trust and gave it away to the Soviet Union and to those who never paid into it.

Sorry my bag.

Since: Apr 07

Franklin, TN

#48 Feb 16, 2009
progress wrote:
For starters you are trying to compare apples and oranges. Most landlords live in a private home.
I pay property taxes on my private home.
My property taxes pay for my children to go to public school.
My property taxes pay for my children to go to public hospital.
My point is that your small fraction of property taxes that come out of your rent do not equal my property taxes.
Yet you want to send your kids to the same public school..........
Yet you want to send your kids to the same public hospital..........
Should I place the same amount of property taxes on your rent?
Is your childs education worth less than my childs education. Do I force you to rent ?
Your small fraction of property taxes buy you same size share of public services as my full payment of property taxes.
Why dont you have to pay as much as I do To get what I get?
Most people go to work to earn a wage correct?

Most landlords get their personal money from their renters RIGHT. In other words if the only money a person receives is from their renters then guess who pays their bills?

I owned a business. My customers paid my salary. All of my expenses came out of what my customers paid me. I do mean all of my expenses. My house payment was paid for by my customers. My utilities were all paid for by my customers even my taxes were ALL paid out of the money I received from my customers.

If a person works for a company exactly whom do you think pays their wages. It ain't the company. It is the companies customers who pay your wages. It is your companies customers who pay your house payments every month. It is you companies customers who have been paying all of your taxes.

Every time a person makes a purchase from your company the money they use is combined with the money all of the other customers pay the company and then that money is distributed to you and your fellow workers in the form of a paycheck. That is after the company deducts its expenses out of it first.

Therefore you do not pay for anything. Your customers like mine paid for your house, your car, your utilities, your boat, your vacation, your taxes. They even paid for your clothing and the dinner you ate last night.

Since: Apr 07

Franklin, TN

#49 Feb 16, 2009
So you see 'progress' exactly what do you think would happen to your income if your companies customers stop buying whatever it is you make or sell?

How would you support yourself if your company went under?

How would you be able to pay for your home if the money stopped coming in?

If your bank collapses tomorrow and you loose your job exactly how would you survive.

I guess you'd end up being one of those whom you despise so much.

> > > >THINK ABOUT IT< < < <

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#50 Feb 17, 2009
progress wrote:
You know , Way back when, ONLY TAXPAYERS HAD RIGHTS, ONLY PROPERTY OWNERS WHO PAID TAXES HAD RIGHTS.
Now all these RENTERS get the benefit of all THE SOCIAL SERVICES TAXPAYERS GET!
That is where the money goes. Don't give me any crap about SALES TAXES! I pay those too..
RENTERS DO NOT PAY ANY. water , sewer , property taxes. These taxes amount to billions. Why should people who do not pay their fair share of taxes because they RENT , get the same level of social services as tax payers ?
I PAY MORE , I SHOULD GET MORE !
End the give away
You are correct, but that only applies to local taxes:
School, county, municipal, sewer, water, &c.

State and Federal income taxes are assesed upon all.
So should local costs.
Everyone fights for the right to vote, but few fight for the right to be taxed equally.

There is no basis of law to exclude renters from paying for local services; this exemption by tradition is a violation of 14th Amendment rights of property tax payers.
progress

Norway, ME

#51 Feb 17, 2009
My wife and I both work day jobs because I cannot charge enough rent. I put the people who cannot pay equitable rents in a position to live off of the taxpayer in PUBLIC HOUSING.

NICE THINKING EXCEPT YOU LEFT out :
the capital outlay to buy the building, ie. MORTGAGE, insurance , maintenance, depreciation , interest

Imagine a town where everyone was in public housing (renters) with no private property owners.

What taxes exist?

Now imagine a town with no renters , just private property owners who pay property taxes.

Why would those towns be different?
The only difference would be PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS WHO PAY taxes!
In the end the private property owner is the backbone. Without them you have a vastly reduced tax base that renter cannot replace.
Jim Hayden wrote:
<quoted text>
Most people go to work to earn a wage correct?
Most landlords get their personal money from their renters RIGHT. In other words if the only money a person receives is from their renters then guess who pays their bills?
I owned a business. My customers paid my salary. All of my expenses came out of what my customers paid me. I do mean all of my expenses. My house payment was paid for by my customers. My utilities were all paid for by my customers even my taxes were ALL paid out of the money I received from my customers.
If a person works for a company exactly whom do you think pays their wages. It ain't the company. It is the companies customers who pay your wages. It is your companies customers who pay your house payments every month. It is you companies customers who have been paying all of your taxes.
Every time a person makes a purchase from your company the money they use is combined with the money all of the other customers pay the company and then that money is distributed to you and your fellow workers in the form of a paycheck. That is after the company deducts its expenses out of it first.
Therefore you do not pay for anything. Your customers like mine paid for your house, your car, your utilities, your boat, your vacation, your taxes. They even paid for your clothing and the dinner you ate last night.
progress

Norway, ME

#52 Feb 17, 2009
You just cannot get around it.
Either it is business that OWNS PROPERTY and pays property taxes

OR

it is a private citizen that OWNS PROPERTY and pays property taxes

Or you don't have a town . EITHER WAY IT IS the owner paying property taxes, NOT A RENTER that supports society with their taxes.

OR THE GOV would build everyone a home and rent to us, Now wouldn't they? BUT THEY WOULD STARVE FOR TAXES!!
progress

Norway, ME

#53 Feb 17, 2009
My point is not that people who receive some form of benefit dont deserve it.
That is another discussion.
My point is that PROPERTY TAXES PAID, either by business or the individual support services. If you pay a million dollars a month in rent, how much of that goes as taxes to the Police dept, Fire Dept, local Hospital, local school.

My point is that people/businesses who pay property taxes support the town. People who do not pay property taxes use services that they do not pay for. Imagine class sizes if only the children of property owners could attend school. Would the hospital be going broke if only property owners were entitled to use the services?

You have to pay your own taxes to use a vehicle. You have to have your own plates , your own insurance. YOU HAVE TO PAY YOUR OWN WAY. Lets extend that principle to other services. Then we could afford decent schools and hospitals
Jim Hayden wrote:
<quoted text>
Social Security is not a government giveaway program. Most of the people living on Social Security like my 84 year old parents have paid into the system for OVER 60 years and they have EARNED every dime they receive and then some. They have actually been ripped off by the Democrats.
Veterans Benefits and Social Security Benefits are paid for by those receiving their benefits.
Anyone living on either who have not earned the right MUST be removed. Oh wait. We can't do that now can we?
The Democrats stole our Social Security Trust and gave it away to the Soviet Union and to those who never paid into it.
Sorry my bag.
progress

Norway, ME

#54 Feb 17, 2009
How about a sliding scale?

You are entitled to services in direct proportion to the amount of taxes you pay?

People would have tremendous incentive to own a home. Much greater than they do now. Forget the fancy clothes, forget big tv's, forget status cars, LETS PAY OUR TAXES.

Would people as reluctant to walk away from their mortgage.

Would people be more likely to take any job no matter how menial., LIKE SOME DO RIGHT NOW ! to keep their home? It would seriously readjust priorities. People figure they can work the system , because the system is open to all. Tie your access to your taxes and watch a lot of people care a whole lot more.

Not too crazy, huh?
progress

Norway, ME

#55 Feb 17, 2009
sorry about the typo's...

How about a sliding scale?

You are entitled to services in direct proportion to the amount of taxes you pay?

People would have tremendous incentive to own a home. Much greater than they do now. Forget the fancy clothes, forget big tv's, forget status cars, LETS PAY OUR TAXES.

Would people BE as reluctant to walk away from their mortgage ?

Would people be more likely to take any job no matter how menial., LIKE SOME DO RIGHT NOW ! to keep their home? It would seriously readjust priorities. People figure they can work the system , because the system is open to all. Tie your access to your taxes and watch a lot of people care a whole lot more.

Not too crazy, huh?
progress

Norway, ME

#56 Feb 17, 2009
Only a crazy person would cheat on their taxes.

WOW!
progress

Norway, ME

#57 Feb 17, 2009
Why put tax cheats in jail?
Jail costs money.

Just deny non payers and tax cheats school , hospital , police , fire , water services.

Watch the ranks of taxpayers swell.
I really believe that if people worked as hard TO MAKE THE SYSTEM WORK

as they do TO BEAT THE SYSTEM, THE SYSTEM WOULD WORK.
progress

Norway, ME

#58 Feb 17, 2009
How many wealthy people would find it cheaper to pay taxes than to build their own sewer system ?

How many wealthy people would find it cheaper to pay taxes than to build their own electric grid ?

How many wealthy people would find it cheaper to pay taxes than to build their own hospital ?

How many wealthy people would find it cheaper to pay taxes than to build their own police department ?

How many wealthy people would find it cheaper to pay taxes than to build their own Fire department ?

Only billionaires.

The rest , the average rich and millionaires would rather pay taxes.
It would be cheaper for them.

THINK ABOUT IT. Getting the rich to pay taxes!

This solution is all carrot and no stick.
progress

Norway, ME

#59 Feb 17, 2009
We need more Ideas that do not involve jail , punishment or fines.

Or spending money !

Just trying to get one out there

Since: Apr 07

Franklin, TN

#60 Feb 17, 2009
progress wrote:
My wife and I both work day jobs because I cannot charge enough rent. I put the people who cannot pay equitable rents in a position to live off of the taxpayer in PUBLIC HOUSING.
NICE THINKING EXCEPT YOU LEFT out :
the capital outlay to buy the building, ie. MORTGAGE, insurance , maintenance, depreciation , interest
Imagine a town where everyone was in public housing (renters) with no private property owners.
What taxes exist?
Now imagine a town with no renters , just private property owners who pay property taxes.
Why would those towns be different?
The only difference would be PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERS WHO PAY taxes!
In the end the private property owner is the backbone. Without them you have a vastly reduced tax base that renter cannot replace.
<quoted text>
"NICE THINKING EXCEPT YOU LEFT out :
the capital outlay to buy the building, ie. MORTGAGE, insurance , maintenance, depreciation , interest"

Those should all be included in the rent. If they are not then that is YOUR fault and not your renters. All of you expenses for your rental property should be paid for by your renters.

You should be taking your property taxes divide them by 12 months and adding that to the rent. The all closing costs should be broken down into a 10 year pay back where it is repaid by your tenants over a 10 period. This is also added to your monthly mortgage payment. All other expenses like lawn care should also be added to your mortgage. Then add 10% for miscellaneous expenses. That you put into a separate bank savings account for things like water heaters, heating and air repairs etc..

Finally you add a 30% payment for yourself. Too many people who rent only charge their tenants for the mortgage and they end up paying everything else. That is the landlord's own fault. And you can't blame the tenants for the landlords own mismanagement.

That is why I ONLY rent from a professional.

Since: Apr 07

Franklin, TN

#61 Feb 17, 2009
progress wrote:
My point is not that people who receive some form of benefit dont deserve it.
That is another discussion.
My point is that PROPERTY TAXES PAID, either by business or the individual support services. If you pay a million dollars a month in rent, how much of that goes as taxes to the Police dept, Fire Dept, local Hospital, local school.
My point is that people/businesses who pay property taxes support the town. People who do not pay property taxes use services that they do not pay for. Imagine class sizes if only the children of property owners could attend school. Would the hospital be going broke if only property owners were entitled to use the services?
You have to pay your own taxes to use a vehicle. You have to have your own plates , your own insurance. YOU HAVE TO PAY YOUR OWN WAY. Lets extend that principle to other services. Then we could afford decent schools and hospitals
<quoted text>
My point is that when I go down to Enterprise and rent a car from them that they take all of their expenses out of my car rental payment.

A landlord is operating a business just like every other business. The cost of doing business MUST be paid for by the customer. If you are charging your tenants say $895.00 a month on a mortgage of say $850.00 a month then you are loosing money.

Sounds to me like you need to sit down figure out exactly to the penny what your monthly expenses are on your property and increase your rates accordingly. You should NOT be paying a single penny out of pocket on your rental property.

Not only that but if you have a 30 year mortgage and you are basing your rent on that 30 year mortgage you are loosing money as you are paying the bank and not yourself.
You need to try and keep everything within a 10 year period. That means that the property is completely paid for in 10 years. Now that means for the first 10 year of ownership you will not see a very big income from your property. Then once the final payment is paid you are able to keep the mortgage payments for yourself. If your mortgage payment is $1,200.00 then once you property is paid for you get to keep all $1,200.00. That is your payment as the landlord. Not only that but you should have enough money saved up to pay to have the roof fixed, buy a new water heater or air/heat unit, etc..

One of the draw backs to renting is some people just have to go out of their way to totally destroy other people's property. I have seen people move into a rental stay about 3 or 4 months and move out leaving several thousand dollars of damage behind. Some state allow landlords to buy what is called Renters Insurance that helps pay for some if not all of the damages left by a tenant that cannot be covered by the damage deposit the renter pays when they first move in. I rented from a company that charged me the first month, the last month and a $500.00 deposit. Then they told me that if I lived there a year I would get the first month free when I renewed my lease. That right there eliminate a lot of problems. Renters with that kind of money will most likely take better care of your property.

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