Spending isn't answer

Full story: GoErie.com 47
The new acronym in politics is "T.A.R.P.," and it might be better described as "The Absolute Reprehensible Project." In the early 1930s, a similar package called "The New Deal" was rammed through Congress. Full Story
First Prev
of 3
Next Last
Neighbor

United States

#1 Mar 9, 2009
The New Deal didn't end the depression? What did, then?!
Repubs jumping up & down yelling no? Got any other bright ideas to get the country of the hole, ace?
This country is in SERIOUS doo-doo. Business as usual is not an option. I'm not crazy about the stimulus package, either...but I don't have any better ideas, do you?
...or are sarcastic letters to the editor the best that you can come up with?

“Thoughts On Life”

Since: Dec 08

Erie and the World

#2 Mar 9, 2009
Casella, you are so far out of touch with reality it is unbelievable. Even your fellow conservative experts do not agree with your thinking. You and Rush and most of your Congressional delegation are living in the past. I quote.
ďThe country is changing. Ronald Reagan won in 1980 with 51% of the vote. We all worship Ronald Reagan. But if that election had been held with the current demographics in America today, Ronald Reagan would have gotten 47 percent of the vote. The math is changing. Anglo vote is 74 percent now not 89. And if we don't modernize conservatism, we are going to have a party of 25 percent of the vote going to Limbaugh rallies, joining every applause line, ripping the furniture up, we're going to be in permanent minority status.Ē
~ Mike Murphy, Veteran Republican Campaign Strategist, on the worship of Rush Limbaugh by Republicans
And
New York Times columnist David Brooks said on Sunday that it was "insane" for Republicans in Congress, including every GOP member of the House, to support a spending freeze in the middle of a recession. Tying such proposals to an intellectual simplicity exhibited by Rush Limbaugh, the conservative scribe also said the party was too obsessed with pursuing the legacy of Ronald Reagan in a drastically different time. "The problem with them and the problem with Limbaugh in terms of intellectual philosophy is they are stuck with Reagan. They are stuck with the idea that government is always the problem. A lot of Republicans up in Capitol Hill right now are calling for a spending freeze in a middle of a recession/depression. That is insane! But they are thinking the way they thought in 1982, if we can only think that way again, that is just insane. And there are a lot of Republicans like David Frum ... who are trying to say 'Reagan was right for his era, but it is time to move on.' And there are just not a lot of them on Capitol Hill right now, and I think the party is looking for that kind of Republican."
The only downturn during the New Deal was in 1937, when Roosevelt listened to the republicans and suspended the spending.
You keep harping on the same old tired and trite talking points and you will insure conservatism remains a minority field of thought. Your greatest fear is that a member of the opposition just may fix this republican made mess. Keep up the good work!
PaulR

Pittsburgh, PA

#4 Mar 9, 2009
Well said. Free enterprise will right the economy on its own. While I welcomed George Bush's tax rebates (As I believe we are over taxed already) i did not welcome the bail outs that began late in his watch, and President Obama's plans are nothing but social engineering. Yes, jobs will be created in the short term, but those jobs will not be sustained once the money runs out. In addition, the federal government is being greatly expanded which will cost taxpayers even more.

Disagree? Do you think President Obama is the greatest thing to come along in eight (or more) years? Think again. Think about the one TRILLION dollars in new taxes he is already proposing, only a mere 50 or so days into his presidency. Think about why the stock market has shown NO CONFIDENCE in him or his economic plans. Think about his "outreach" to Hamas, Iran, and the Taliban. None ofd this is good for America in the long run. History will repeat itself if we do not remember the mistakes of the past. President Obama is in many ways the past revisited.
PaulR

Pittsburgh, PA

#5 Mar 9, 2009
GreyWolf, you hit it RIGHT. The demographics ARE changing. Those who wish to have the government coddle them and pay them are becoming the majority. Have you noticed that the largest cities in the nation are the strongest democratic strongholds? There are reasons for that, and they go far beyond politics.
Those who pay the bills, whether they are Republican or Democrat, are being out numbered by those who wish for government to take care of them. Let's have healthcare for all! Who pays for it? Let's have guaranteed college educations for all! Who pays for it? Social Security should pay enough for everyone to survive with no other income! Who pays for it? Pay my mortgage! Pay for my gasoline! Who pays for it? The same people who have been carrying an increasing amount of the load for years.
I expect the economy to recover under PresidentnObama. That is unless he truly screws things up more than he already has. It will recover because that is the way our economic system works. Unemployment was significantly higher under and immediately after Carter, yet we recovered without the massive spending going on today. How is that possible? It is because the free enterprise system works, not because of some large spending plan. Our politicians....Almost all of them from both sides of the aisle, are career politicians who crave the power and the money. Term limits must be setso that we can get people in office who are truly there for the people as they can no longer be voted out of office due to the very demographic change you discuss.
tombo

Edinboro, PA

#6 Mar 9, 2009
PaulR wrote:
GreyWolf, you hit it RIGHT. The demographics ARE changing. Those who wish to have the government coddle them and pay them are becoming the majority. Have you noticed that the largest cities in the nation are the strongest democratic strongholds? There are reasons for that, and they go far beyond politics.
Those who pay the bills, whether they are Republican or Democrat, are being out numbered by those who wish for government to take care of them. Let's have healthcare for all! Who pays for it? Let's have guaranteed college educations for all! Who pays for it? Social Security should pay enough for everyone to survive with no other income! Who pays for it? Pay my mortgage! Pay for my gasoline! Who pays for it? The same people who have been carrying an increasing amount of the load for years.
I expect the economy to recover under PresidentnObama. That is unless he truly screws things up more than he already has. It will recover because that is the way our economic system works. Unemployment was significantly higher under and immediately after Carter, yet we recovered without the massive spending going on today. How is that possible? It is because the free enterprise system works, not because of some large spending plan. Our politicians....Almost all of them from both sides of the aisle, are career politicians who crave the power and the money. Term limits must be setso that we can get people in office who are truly there for the people as they can no longer be voted out of office due to the very demographic change you discuss.
If you totally ignore the Reagan deficits and huge expansion of government that occured under his watch, then your theory about what turned the economy around might make sense.
Free enterprise always gets bailed out by the government - whether it's in the form of infrastructure spending, government contracts, lack of regulations and oversight, or a business friendly tax code.
Look at the banking situation right now. The sole reason they were successful over the last 8 to 10 years was because of government...either through lack of intervention or too much intervention (depending on which camp you are in). They've been really the only beneficiary so far of the government via TARP funding, and still they want more.
In theory the TARP bailout was meant to increase lending to the business community and prop them up again. You should have noticed that the Chamber of Commerce and the national manufacturer's association was in favor of the stimulus. Don't you wonder why the business community would want the stimulus spending so badly if it they aren't reliant on government spending and intervention?

“Thoughts On Life”

Since: Dec 08

Erie and the World

#7 Mar 9, 2009
PaulR wrote:
GreyWolf, you hit it RIGHT. The demographics ARE changing. Those who wish to have the government coddle them and pay them are becoming the majority. Have you noticed that the largest cities in the nation are the strongest democratic strongholds? There are reasons for that, and they go far beyond politics.
Those who pay the bills, whether they are Republican or Democrat, are being out numbered by those who wish for government to take care of them. Let's have healthcare for all! Who pays for it? Let's have guaranteed college educations for all! Who pays for it? Social Security should pay enough for everyone to survive with no other income! Who pays for it? Pay my mortgage! Pay for my gasoline! Who pays for it? The same people who have been carrying an increasing amount of the load for years.
I expect the economy to recover under PresidentnObama. That is unless he truly screws things up more than he already has. It will recover because that is the way our economic system works. Unemployment was significantly higher under and immediately after Carter, yet we recovered without the massive spending going on today. How is that possible? It is because the free enterprise system works, not because of some large spending plan. Our politicians....Almost all of them from both sides of the aisle, are career politicians who crave the power and the money. Term limits must be setso that we can get people in office who are truly there for the people as they can no longer be voted out of office due to the very demographic change you discuss.
I am going to remind you again, Paul, it was Reagan, Bush I and il dubya who added 98% of that national debt to our grand children's bill. Someone will have to pay it. Every single dime added by Obama was due to the failed policies of those three men. If we had paid our bills for those 20 years as we did under Clinton, we would NOT be in this mess. You continue to spout off conservative tired and trite talking points, when they were proven wrong.
I was never a fan of Bill Clinton and did not vote for him, but he balanced his budgets (last four years) and paid down the debt by nearly a trillion dollars over those four years.
You just keep believing in Ronnie Raygun. There aren't enough of you to make a difference any longer.

“Thoughts On Life”

Since: Dec 08

Erie and the World

#8 Mar 9, 2009
PaulR wrote:
Well said. Free enterprise will right the economy on its own. While I welcomed George Bush's tax rebates (As I believe we are over taxed already) i did not welcome the bail outs that began late in his watch, and President Obama's plans are nothing but social engineering. Yes, jobs will be created in the short term, but those jobs will not be sustained once the money runs out. In addition, the federal government is being greatly expanded which will cost taxpayers even more.
Disagree? Do you think President Obama is the greatest thing to come along in eight (or more) years? Think again. Think about the one TRILLION dollars in new taxes he is already proposing, only a mere 50 or so days into his presidency. Think about why the stock market has shown NO CONFIDENCE in him or his economic plans. Think about his "outreach" to Hamas, Iran, and the Taliban. None ofd this is good for America in the long run. History will repeat itself if we do not remember the mistakes of the past. President Obama is in many ways the past revisited.
Do a search for "the multiplier." You just might learn something about free enterprise and how the economy really works. I really do not think you are this dumb, Paul, so quit trying to prove it.
Jedstone

Mason, OH

#9 Mar 9, 2009
Greed is an implicit characteristic of capitalism and "regulations" are what kept this greed in check. Just like laws keep criminal behaiviour to spread rampant, regulation are the laws that attempted keep corporate greed in check.

Yes, they weild disproportionate power and influence exactly because the policies created by the "free market" ideals were created to favor them and move the base of power that laid in a goverment which was as it should be, elected and controlled by the people, and moved it to the hands of a corporations and the wealthy controlling this institutions.

That's why republicans denigrate "the goverment" and render it incompetent whenever they are in charge of it.
Hap

Mason, OH

#10 Mar 9, 2009
I know a lot of intelligent conservatives who buy this line. It is easy to believe something when it justifies larger profits for yourself. Usually the arguments go: An unfettered capitalism is good for everyone, eventually the markets correct and we all benefit. BUT WHY ARE THE POOR JUST GETTING POORER AND POORER OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS. Well it's just because they deserve it, it resulted from their own choices. It's good for them and if it isnt it's their fault.
Simon Says

Maryville, TN

#13 Mar 9, 2009
Neighbor wrote:
The New Deal didn't end the depression? What did, then?!
Repubs jumping up & down yelling no? Got any other bright ideas to get the country of the hole, ace?
This country is in SERIOUS doo-doo. Business as usual is not an option. I'm not crazy about the stimulus package, either...but I don't have any better ideas, do you?
...or are sarcastic letters to the editor the best that you can come up with?
Nice revisionist history. The New Deal prolonged the depression and did nothing to end it. FDRís own chief financial advisor said, "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started and an enormous debt to boot!" Again, this was FDRís own financial expert Henry Morgenthau and he might as well be talking to us again today. You want to know what brought us out of the Great Depression?! It wasnít spending silly, it was WWII. Common sense tells you not to spend money when you donít have any. As has been said before, the problem with socialism is, sooner or later you run out of everyone elseís money.
Ragnar Danneskjold

Irving, TX

#14 Mar 9, 2009
Hap wrote:
I know a lot of intelligent conservatives who buy this line. It is easy to believe something when it justifies larger profits for yourself. Usually the arguments go: An unfettered capitalism is good for everyone, eventually the markets correct and we all benefit. BUT WHY ARE THE POOR JUST GETTING POORER AND POORER OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS. Well it's just because they deserve it, it resulted from their own choices. It's good for them and if it isnt it's their fault.
Good question, Hap. Why, when we've stolen more than five trillion dollars from the productive and given it to the non-productive since 1965 in another scam-program called 'The Great Society'(you may have heard of it, forgetting altogther the earlier New Deal scam), ARE THERE STILL POOR PEOPLE? Surely the standard liberal sop ideas to free people from their own mess should have worked, right? Why are there still poor (with the two cars, cell phones and HDTVs) people?

The reason is the same one that Ofama's latest sop to the masses will only serve to enslave (by luring them into reliance on the big government teat)the poor for more generations to come. The only difference between this scam and the earlier two is this one's shear size.

So where do the productive go to get a refund on that earlier five trillion dollars? Are you and the other O'droolers good for it? I doubt it.

Obama happens when stupid people are allowed to vote.

The Dimocrat Party: killing freedom, capitalism and the Constitution since 1933.

And where is that pesky birth certificate?
oscar1

Canton, OH

#15 Mar 9, 2009
Thanks for the bent history lesson. Take a pill Jim and talk to us in a couple years.
Hap

Mason, OH

#16 Mar 9, 2009
Ragnar Danneskjold wrote:
<quoted text>
Good question, Hap. Why, when we've stolen more than five trillion dollars from the productive and given it to the non-productive since 1965 in another scam-program called 'The Great Society'(you may have heard of it, forgetting altogther the earlier New Deal scam), ARE THERE STILL POOR PEOPLE? Surely the standard liberal sop ideas to free people from their own mess should have worked, right? Why are there still poor (with the two cars, cell phones and HDTVs) people?
The reason is the same one that Ofama's latest sop to the masses will only serve to enslave (by luring them into reliance on the big government teat)the poor for more generations to come. The only difference between this scam and the earlier two is this one's shear size.
So where do the productive go to get a refund on that earlier five trillion dollars? Are you and the other O'droolers good for it? I doubt it.
Obama happens when stupid people are allowed to vote.
The Dimocrat Party: killing freedom, capitalism and the Constitution since 1933.
And where is that pesky birth certificate?
Where have you been? The Reagan, Bush 1&2, and Clinton agendas have practally destroyed the New Deal-Great Society programs.
It should be clear that the anti-New Deal has failed. Between the 1930s and the 1970s, income inequality narrowed because a relatively stronger labor movement, more progressive taxation, and significantly better social benefits connected economic growth to a substantial rise in real living standards. Income inequality between the 1980s and today, however, has risen sharply, producing homelessness at the bottom, the construction of multimillion dollar luxury developments at the top, and a huge debt crisis in the middle.
mrkihn

Chambersburg, PA

#17 Mar 9, 2009
Jedstone wrote:
Greed is an implicit characteristic of capitalism and "regulations" are what kept this greed in check. Just like laws keep criminal behaiviour to spread rampant, regulation are the laws that attempted keep corporate greed in check.
Yes, they weild disproportionate power and influence exactly because the policies created by the "free market" ideals were created to favor them and move the base of power that laid in a goverment which was as it should be, elected and controlled by the people, and moved it to the hands of a corporations and the wealthy controlling this institutions.
That's why republicans denigrate "the goverment" and render it incompetent whenever they are in charge of it.
Well stated
At least a few see what happens when free market and capitalism run wild and unchecked.
We're now paying the price the past deregulation of the greedy.
johnski

Erie, PA

#19 Mar 9, 2009
Simon Says wrote:
<quoted text>
It wasnít spending silly, it was WWII. Common sense tells you not to spend money when you donít have any. As has been said before, the problem with socialism is, sooner or later you run out of everyone elseís money.
So what do you call WWII. IT WAS SPENDING to build the war machine and lots of it. SHORT TERM SPENDING. Exactly like what Obama is doing today but he wants to do it internally (for things this country needs not to save other countries that won't pay us back) as opposed to externally and Obama's SPENDING will also extend to long term.

“Thoughts On Life”

Since: Dec 08

Erie and the World

#21 Mar 9, 2009
Simon Says wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice revisionist history. The New Deal prolonged the depression and did nothing to end it. FDRís own chief financial advisor said, "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. I want to see people get enough to eat. We have never made good on our promises. I say after eight years of this Administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started and an enormous debt to boot!" Again, this was FDRís own financial expert Henry Morgenthau and he might as well be talking to us again today. You want to know what brought us out of the Great Depression?! It wasnít spending silly, it was WWII. Common sense tells you not to spend money when you donít have any. As has been said before, the problem with socialism is, sooner or later you run out of everyone elseís money.
WWII Was the epitome of spending bills. And the ONLY Year the numbers receded during the recovery from the GD was 1937, when Roosevelt listened to the republicans and suspended the New Deal programs. It is you who is revising history to suit your narrow-minded views.

“Thoughts On Life”

Since: Dec 08

Erie and the World

#22 Mar 9, 2009
Ragnar Danneskjold wrote:
<quoted text>
Good question, Hap. Why, when we've stolen more than five trillion dollars from the productive and given it to the non-productive since 1965 in another scam-program called 'The Great Society'(you may have heard of it, forgetting altogther the earlier New Deal scam), ARE THERE STILL POOR PEOPLE? Surely the standard liberal sop ideas to free people from their own mess should have worked, right? Why are there still poor (with the two cars, cell phones and HDTVs) people?
The reason is the same one that Ofama's latest sop to the masses will only serve to enslave (by luring them into reliance on the big government teat)the poor for more generations to come. The only difference between this scam and the earlier two is this one's shear size.
So where do the productive go to get a refund on that earlier five trillion dollars? Are you and the other O'droolers good for it? I doubt it.
Obama happens when stupid people are allowed to vote.
The Dimocrat Party: killing freedom, capitalism and the Constitution since 1933.
And where is that pesky birth certificate?
Dagmar Dangerfield (he never will get any respect) continnues to mix those apples and oranges. The reason there are still poor is 20 years of republican presidentism, where the rich were allowed to get richer by paying virtually no taxes and everyone else could go to hell. You reaganites are living in the past. This is 2009 knuck le head.

“Thoughts On Life”

Since: Dec 08

Erie and the World

#23 Mar 9, 2009
johnski wrote:
<quoted text>So what do you call WWII. IT WAS SPENDING to build the war machine and lots of it. SHORT TERM SPENDING. Exactly like what Obama is doing today but he wants to do it internally (for things this country needs not to save other countries that won't pay us back) as opposed to externally and Obama's SPENDING will also extend to long term.
At times I think we're wasting our time trying to talk sense to these nutcases with minds so narrow, they could pass through the eye of a needle. Hopefully, one day they will see the light.
tombo

Edinboro, PA

#24 Mar 9, 2009
Greywolf Borealis wrote:
<quoted text>
At times I think we're wasting our time trying to talk sense to these nutcases with minds so narrow, they could pass through the eye of a needle. Hopefully, one day they will see the light.
They will never see the light, just like we'll never see it from their point of view. It's fun arguing though!

“Thoughts On Life”

Since: Dec 08

Erie and the World

#25 Mar 9, 2009
tombo wrote:
<quoted text>
They will never see the light, just like we'll never see it from their point of view. It's fun arguing though!
Yeah, one of my favorite pastimes is calling these guys out on their illogic. Especially on Casella letters. He is so whacked out.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 3
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

The New Deal Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
The New Deal Goes South (Jul '13) Jul '13 Terry 1
Wonkblog book club: "Fear Itself" (Jul '13) Jul '13 Holly 1
'New Deal' on hep C (Mar '13) Mar '13 Zellers pharmacy 1
The Taliban vs. Teenage Girl, Richard Hell, The... (Mar '13) Mar '13 Alex 1
Political Book Club: A Reading List (Mar '13) Mar '13 Dean 1
Wynne Liberals plan to continue ONTC fire sale (Mar '13) Mar '13 Dean 1
Book review: 'The Great Deformation: The Corrup... (Mar '13) Mar '13 Dean 1

The New Deal People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE