LDS News Briefs: Osmonds to join Tabernacle Choir for Pioneer D...

Osmonds to join Tabernacle Choir for this year's Pioneer Day concert The Osmond family will be guest artists with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and Orchestra at Temple Square for this year's Pioneer Day concert. Full Story
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nicki

Spring, TX

#1 May 1, 2008
They had Pioneer Day on "Big Love" - one of the lesser episodes.
STEPHEN

Colorado Springs, CO

#2 Aug 14, 2008
I wonder how much Marie and the other Osmonds had to "Tith" meaning "Shell Out Money," in order to be honored on Pioneer day. I really hate how stupid some people get with thier religion and just hand over all thier hard - earned money because they are so "BRAINWASHED" to do so. I know all churchs require you to do so it sometimes, but if you compare the Mormons and the Catholics, the Cathlics don't "Force" thier members to hand over thier money, it's a choice. I am so glad I am not a Mormon!

“Aurea mediocritas ”

Since: Feb 08

Hudsonville, MI

#3 Aug 14, 2008
Ah rats! Motley Crude got beat out again! Yet Cute little chubby Marie wiggling and sing across the floor again is nice too! Donney is right, alittle more Rock and Roll please!

Since: Jan 08

Saint George, UT

#4 Aug 14, 2008
STEPHEN wrote:
I wonder how much Marie and the other Osmonds had to "Tith" meaning "Shell Out Money," in order to be honored on Pioneer day. I really hate how stupid some people get with thier religion and just hand over all thier hard - earned money because they are so "BRAINWASHED" to do so. I know all churchs require you to do so it sometimes, but if you compare the Mormons and the Catholics, the Cathlics don't "Force" thier members to hand over thier money, it's a choice. I am so glad I am not a Mormon!
personally, I think its pretty noble to give a percentage of your money to a cause greater than you. I'm really partial to the St Judes hospital, for kids with cancer and my wife an I have donated there. I agree with you, mormonism is a bit different. Although they say its optional, you cannot be the highest level of mormon (temple worthy) if you dont, and at the end of every year they call you in to review how much you've given, and are asked formally several times a year if you are a FULL tithe payer, which is 10% of your income. There is a bit of guilt involved if you dont, which Im against.

“Aurea mediocritas ”

Since: Feb 08

Hudsonville, MI

#5 Aug 15, 2008
MrZip wrote:
<quoted text>
personally, I think its pretty noble to give a percentage of your money to a cause greater than you. I'm really partial to the St Judes hospital, for kids with cancer and my wife an I have donated there. I agree with you, mormonism is a bit different. Although they say its optional, you cannot be the highest level of mormon (temple worthy) if you dont, and at the end of every year they call you in to review how much you've given, and are asked formally several times a year if you are a FULL tithe payer, which is 10% of your income. There is a bit of guilt involved if you dont, which Im against.
Woah, that's new info for me! I didn't know that.
someone who cares

United States

#6 Aug 15, 2008
MrZip wrote:
<quoted text>
personally, I think its pretty noble to give a percentage of your money to a cause greater than you. I'm really partial to the St Judes hospital, for kids with cancer and my wife an I have donated there. I agree with you, mormonism is a bit different. Although they say its optional, you cannot be the highest level of mormon (temple worthy) if you dont, and at the end of every year they call you in to review how much you've given, and are asked formally several times a year if you are a FULL tithe payer, which is 10% of your income. There is a bit of guilt involved if you dont, which Im against.
If what you say is true, and being that you are an ex LDS you would therefore know much more than I,(I have never been LDS),then the LDS church is no different than many other churches in that respect, particularly the UPC church(United Pentecostal Church), of which my husband and I were members for several years.They expected you to pay tithes regularly, preached frequently on the subject and quoted scripture saying that if you robbed God by not paying tithes and offerings, you were going to hell.Guilt plays right into this.

They expected you to put your tithes in a special envelope and put your name on it, as well as itemized what you were paying.If the pastor found an envelope without a name on it, he'd stand at the pulpit and wave the envelope around in the air, demanding accusingly who put it in the basket that way.

Mind you, I have no problem whatsoever giving to the church, in fact, we should contribute what we can.

But my question is, how can one be a cheerful giver if they are being compelled under threat of eternal damnation to pay or else?

And what about the name on the envelope?

This I don't understand.

I am referencing the UPC, I know nothing about the LDS.

“"LDS Christian"”

Since: Nov 07

Orem, UT

#7 Aug 15, 2008
The LDS are no different than other faiths in teaching principals taught in the Bible such as tithing. Free agency is the main principal when abiding by that principal and a very small percentage of LDS pay their 10%. The tithes are used for good to build the Kingdom of God, build Temples and meeting houses, run Missions and other elements to run a world wide Church and there are NO absolutely none of the LDS leaders who like many other religions are getting rich on tithing and squandering it on expensive homes or air conditioning for dog houses. Most of them are wealthy men from their personal occupations before becoming General Authorities. Tithing is used only for the building of the kingdom.
Fast offerings are also voluntary...LDS are counseled to pay in secret the amount of 2 meals skipped while fasting once a month on the first Sunday of each month. This money goes into a special fund to give to the poor or for disaster relief for those in need. Interesting this same practice was among the Ancient Christians:

(5. See, Shepherd of Hermas, Similitude V:28-30. "[t]hat day on which thou fastest thou shalt taste nothing at all but bread and water; and computing the quantity of food which thou art wont to eat upon other days, thou shalt lay aside the expense which thou shouldest have made that day, and give it unto the widow, the fatherless, and the poor.")

Since: Jan 08

Saint George, UT

#8 Aug 15, 2008
someone who cares wrote:
<quoted text>
If what you say is true, and being that you are an ex LDS you would therefore know much more than I,(I have never been LDS),then the LDS church is no different than many other churches in that respect, particularly the UPC church(United Pentecostal Church), of which my husband and I were members for several years.They expected you to pay tithes regularly, preached frequently on the subject and quoted scripture saying that if you robbed God by not paying tithes and offerings, you were going to hell.Guilt plays right into this.
They expected you to put your tithes in a special envelope and put your name on it, as well as itemized what you were paying.If the pastor found an envelope without a name on it, he'd stand at the pulpit and wave the envelope around in the air, demanding accusingly who put it in the basket that way.
Mind you, I have no problem whatsoever giving to the church, in fact, we should contribute what we can.
But my question is, how can one be a cheerful giver if they are being compelled under threat of eternal damnation to pay or else?
And what about the name on the envelope?
This I don't understand.
I am referencing the UPC, I know nothing about the LDS.
that sounds pretty accurate, other than the waiving the envelope in the air :) I guess it would depend on your bishop.

Hannah is right. the church uses it to build churches, materials, temples etc. Most of the apostles in teh church were successful businessmen, lawyers doctors etc, and they also have other business interests which they invest in to make money for the church with. Currently, theyre building a multi million dollar mall in salt lake city, which has caused some controversy with critics of the church.

as far as being compelled to give, I agree with you. I think you are FAR more blessed if its entirely your idea in any facet of giving. in the LDS church its typical carrot and stick -- blessings if you DO give, and possible damnation if you don't. It was known as "fire Insurance" sometimes.

around the early days of the church, even to the turn of the century the church was always in financial straits. Emphasising tithing has helped. Back in the day, you could pay in kind, or with animals, or whatever you could give 10% of. Not so much anymore.

but then again, big organizations need big money, and the church's growth would obviously need alot of money to keep it rolling. Certain blessings of being a full on mormon are withheld unless you're a full tithe payer.

Its also unclear if you should pay 10% gross or 10% net. most pay net, i would imagine. there were times I'd pay gross, because several bishops would ask me "do you want gross blessings or net blessings". Even the general handbook of instructions isnt clear.

what church do you go to now?

Since: Jan 08

Saint George, UT

#9 Aug 15, 2008
since the church doesnt release its financial figures, its not really clear how much the apostles of the church make. Ive heard around 70k a year with travel and housing expenses paid, but Its not confirmed. its estimated that the mormon church is worth several billions, when you consider their real estate, business assets as well as a steady flow of 10% income.

“Aurea mediocritas ”

Since: Feb 08

Hudsonville, MI

#10 Aug 15, 2008
someone who cares wrote:
<quoted text>
If what you say is true, and being that you are an ex LDS you would therefore know much more than I,(I have never been LDS),then the LDS church is no different than many other churches in that respect, particularly the UPC church(United Pentecostal Church), of which my husband and I were members for several years.They expected you to pay tithes regularly, preached frequently on the subject and quoted scripture saying that if you robbed God by not paying tithes and offerings, you were going to hell.Guilt plays right into this.
They expected you to put your tithes in a special envelope and put your name on it, as well as itemized what you were paying.If the pastor found an envelope without a name on it, he'd stand at the pulpit and wave the envelope around in the air, demanding accusingly who put it in the basket that way.
Mind you, I have no problem whatsoever giving to the church, in fact, we should contribute what we can.
But my question is, how can one be a cheerful giver if they are being compelled under threat of eternal damnation to pay or else?
And what about the name on the envelope?
This I don't understand.
I am referencing the UPC, I know nothing about the LDS.
Isn't that a little blunt about name on envelopes? Wasn't it written in the Bible someplace that God glories in deeds and good works done in secret? Tithes not included in this area? I really don't know!

“"LDS Christian"”

Since: Nov 07

Orem, UT

#11 Aug 15, 2008
<< Malachi 3 >>
King James Bible
1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. 2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: 3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. 4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the LORD, as in the days of old, and as in former years.

5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts. 6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. 9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. 10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. 11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts. 12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.

13 Your words have been stout against me, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, What have we spoken so much against thee? 14 Ye have said, It is vain to serve God: and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinance, and that we have walked mournfully before the LORD of hosts? 15 And now we call the proud happy; yea, they that work wickedness are set up; yea, they that tempt God are even delivered.

16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. 17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. 18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Since: Jan 08

Saint George, UT

#12 Aug 15, 2008
Malachi is your ace in the hole for those who are tithing slugs.

you're also given lots of stories of people who paid their tithing when they didnt have it to give, then money would show up that would cover their tithing. Or rain would come and save the crops. I had some of that. I'd also have alot of times when I'd pay it, and the church would build a new mall and Id pay bounced check fees or my house payment would be late and my credit would take a hit.

its all part of the mormon god's wisdom. you gotta render to caesar.
someone who cares

United States

#13 Aug 15, 2008
MrZip wrote:
<quoted text>
that sounds pretty accurate, other than the waiving the envelope in the air :) I guess it would depend on your bishop.
Hannah is right. the church uses it to build churches, materials, temples etc. Most of the apostles in teh church were successful businessmen, lawyers doctors etc, and they also have other business interests which they invest in to make money for the church with. Currently, theyre building a multi million dollar mall in salt lake city, which has caused some controversy with critics of the church.
as far as being compelled to give, I agree with you. I think you are FAR more blessed if its entirely your idea in any facet of giving. in the LDS church its typical carrot and stick -- blessings if you DO give, and possible damnation if you don't. It was known as "fire Insurance" sometimes.
around the early days of the church, even to the turn of the century the church was always in financial straits. Emphasising tithing has helped. Back in the day, you could pay in kind, or with animals, or whatever you could give 10% of. Not so much anymore.
but then again, big organizations need big money, and the church's growth would obviously need alot of money to keep it rolling. Certain blessings of being a full on mormon are withheld unless you're a full tithe payer.
Its also unclear if you should pay 10% gross or 10% net. most pay net, i would imagine. there were times I'd pay gross, because several bishops would ask me "do you want gross blessings or net blessings". Even the general handbook of instructions isnt clear.
what church do you go to now?
I don't go to any particular church now. I'm not against churches per se, but we have not found one where we feel comfortable.

I don't believe that you have to attend church in order to have a relationship with The Creator, but it is nice to have a place to go and fellowship with likeminded people.
someone who cares

United States

#14 Aug 15, 2008
Howie in Holland wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't that a little blunt about name on envelopes? Wasn't it written in the Bible someplace that God glories in deeds and good works done in secret? Tithes not included in this area? I really don't know!
Yes it is, and I believe it is designed to keep track of those who give and who don't, and to shame the ones who don't. There are a lot of other tactics the UPC uses to shame people into giving. Like the pastor will sit up front and act like an auctioneer, asking who will give $1000.00,$500.00, etc. Tell them to stand up. Everyone can see who is giving and who isn't. Then they will have, for example, a drive to drum up money for a new parking lot, for example. They will get pledges, then post the list in the vestibule, where everyone can see who pays and who doesn't. They mark down on the list when someone pays. Then they get up front and tell everyone that whoever pledged but hasn't paid, needs to keep their pledge.Designed to foster guilt and shame.It's too much!

And yes, it does say that in the Bible. You're not supposed to let your left hand know what your right hand is doing.I would think that goes for any money you give to the church.Why would it apply to one thing and not to all?

Since: Jan 08

Saint George, UT

#15 Aug 15, 2008
someone who cares wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't go to any particular church now. I'm not against churches per se, but we have not found one where we feel comfortable.
I don't believe that you have to attend church in order to have a relationship with The Creator, but it is nice to have a place to go and fellowship with likeminded people.
same here. to be honest, I dont even know what I think about the creator or god or whatever, but I'd like to think God is pretty understanding. The world seems like a miracle to me to be honest. Ive got air to breathe, freedom to make out of myself what I want, and a world to live in. If there IS a god, he's got to be a pretty good dude (or dudette, I dont know!)
someone who cares

United States

#16 Aug 15, 2008
MrZip wrote:
Malachi is your ace in the hole for those who are tithing slugs.
you're also given lots of stories of people who paid their tithing when they didnt have it to give, then money would show up that would cover their tithing. Or rain would come and save the crops. I had some of that. I'd also have alot of times when I'd pay it, and the church would build a new mall and Id pay bounced check fees or my house payment would be late and my credit would take a hit.
its all part of the mormon god's wisdom. you gotta render to caesar.
This is not a knock at Hannah, so please don't take it that way anyone. Malachi is the main book of the Bible the UPC uses to beat people over the head regarding tithes.

I personally think, and others may not agree, that your first responsibility is to your own household, as far as financially. If someone gives their money when they have not taken care of their responsibilities first, such as food, utilities, mortgage, rent, needs of the family,etc, then I think that is not pleasing to The Creator.He does not want us struggling because we were not wise in handling our finances.

Of course, I believe he wants us to help others as well as support the church,(they have bills, too)but family responsibilities come first, then helping others, then the church. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

I do believe He can bless us if we step out in faith, but we cannot do it all the time and expect to be blessed each time. He blesses in His own time, and we must be realistic and responsible.

That's what I think.

As far a Render unto Caesar, I don't believe in rendering to a corrupt government.

Since: Jan 08

Saint George, UT

#17 Aug 15, 2008
STEPHEN wrote:
I wonder how much Marie and the other Osmonds had to "Tith" meaning "Shell Out Money," in order to be honored on Pioneer day. I really hate how stupid some people get with thier religion and just hand over all thier hard - earned money because they are so "BRAINWASHED" to do so. I know all churchs require you to do so it sometimes, but if you compare the Mormons and the Catholics, the Cathlics don't "Force" thier members to hand over thier money, it's a choice. I am so glad I am not a Mormon!
the osmonds, back in the day were huge. they did a lot for the church. My father was a stake president in Provo during the early and mid 70s and was invited by them to one of their concerts back in the day. They were idolized, a big pop band and as hot as the jackson 5 or bigger for a time. He told me they went to their hotel room after the show and there were girls repelling off the roof and hanging in the windows, etc.

Paul H Dunn, who was a general authority, a relative of mine and friend of my father told my dad that the church actually told them they didnt need to go on missions (something that ALL mormon men are massively encouraged to do) because their popularity did more for the church than anything a mission could do.

my brother is an excavator up in utah valley, and did some work for marie and said she's a total wack job. The press seems to back that up. They say donny and the brothers all all hella good guys tho.
someone who cares

United States

#18 Aug 15, 2008
If we have an abundance that enables us to help others financially, that is honorable. But financial help is not the only way we can help others. We can say a kind and encouraging word or lend an ear, if we have nothing else to give.Visit a lonely soul, be a friend. Or we can help an overworked mother by watching her little ones while she does something for herself, or if we have a truck, we can help someone move,give someone a ride. Or we can allow someone to shower at our home, a place to sleep(being careful, of course)You just use common sense.Clean an ill or elderly person's home, take food to them, if you have chickens or a garden, share your bounty. So many things we can do that only require time and a tender heart.

If we can spend time on the computer sharing our opinions, we can make the time to share ourselves with others who need it.

I know of a certain gentleman here who puts his money where his mouth is, so to speak, when it comes to helping others.
someone who cares

United States

#19 Aug 15, 2008
MrZip wrote:
<quoted text>
the osmonds, back in the day were huge. they did a lot for the church. My father was a stake president in Provo during the early and mid 70s and was invited by them to one of their concerts back in the day. They were idolized, a big pop band and as hot as the jackson 5 or bigger for a time. He told me they went to their hotel room after the show and there were girls repelling off the roof and hanging in the windows, etc.
Paul H Dunn, who was a general authority, a relative of mine and friend of my father told my dad that the church actually told them they didnt need to go on missions (something that ALL mormon men are massively encouraged to do) because their popularity did more for the church than anything a mission could do.
my brother is an excavator up in utah valley, and did some work for marie and said she's a total wack job. The press seems to back that up. They say donny and the brothers all all hella good guys tho.
Maybe she's a "wack job" because of all the pressure she's under to project a certain image.

Her reality is nothing like yours or mine, and some are able to handle the pressure better than others.

At one time, I read that Donny Osmond suffered from severe anxiety and debilitating phobias.

I can see why. Regular life is full of enough pressures as it is. People like the Osmond's are under intense pressure to be what the public expects them to be. So if they show they are human, they get criticized big time.

They have big egos, so this is very difficult for them.The egos are developed from all the people hanging around and fawning over them, telling them how great they are.To live that life is difficult, because they get to believing it and when they can't keep up with it, they suffer emotional problems.

Others can say they chose it and can drop out if they like, but they have been in this way for so many years, it is ingrained in them and would be very difficult if not next to impossible to be any other way.

They have a lot of advantages due to their wealth and fame, but also a lot of pitfalls.

Since: Jan 08

Saint George, UT

#20 Aug 15, 2008
someone who cares wrote:
If we have an abundance that enables us to help others financially, that is honorable. But financial help is not the only way we can help others. We can say a kind and encouraging word or lend an ear, if we have nothing else to give.Visit a lonely soul, be a friend. Or we can help an overworked mother by watching her little ones while she does something for herself, or if we have a truck, we can help someone move,give someone a ride. Or we can allow someone to shower at our home, a place to sleep(being careful, of course)You just use common sense.Clean an ill or elderly person's home, take food to them, if you have chickens or a garden, share your bounty. So many things we can do that only require time and a tender heart.
If we can spend time on the computer sharing our opinions, we can make the time to share ourselves with others who need it.
I know of a certain gentleman here who puts his money where his mouth is, so to speak, when it comes to helping others.
you rock! I agree. theres people out there who need help, and if you have it, you feel so good when you give it.

I ride with an organization that helps a local battered woman shelter financially. I'm pretty proud of that, especially when you see the kids we help.

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