Liar, liar

Full story: Lowell Sun 45
Wouldn't it be nice, as The Beach Boys sang in another context, if there was such a thing as a liar meter? It would detect when a politician wasn't telling the truth and alert the public. Read more
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OhC-Mon

Berlin, CT

#1 Sep 17, 2009
Wilson crossed the line. Period. The President was addressing a joint session of Congress. Like him or not, he is the head of state. Wilson could have sat on his hands, rolled his eyes, or did anything that his colleagues did to signify disbelief. The Democrats treated Bush that way, but none of them were so boorish as to shout out. The House has rules, and he broke them. He could have waited until he was out of the chamber and said anything he wanted (which is what Reid did, not excusing him either). We do have 'lie detectors' such as FactCheck.org . Cal Thomas, who has been around the political scene a long time, knows these things. He should also know that it is behavior like Wilson's that helps create the rancor and contributes to the low esteem that the public has for Congress. Even in a sharply divided House, a few Republicans also voted for Wilson's rebuke, and IMO rightly so.
OhC-Mon

Berlin, CT

#2 Sep 17, 2009
Next point: Let's try a little common sense. Pretend for a moment that you work in an ER. A person shows up with a life threatening injury. What do you do... ask their citizenship?
I'm seriously curious about all you 'taxpayers', if you have any religious principals in this so-called 'Judeo-Christian nation', what does your faith tell you to do? Triage the poor?
Interested Observer

Concord, MA

#4 Sep 17, 2009
OhC-Mon wrote:
The Democrats treated Bush that way, but none of them were so boorish as to shout out.
They booed--is that shouting out? Did that contribute to the rancor?They called Bush a liar and stupid. Does that add to the coarsening of society? Ted Kennedy's Bork speech seems to be to be one of the seminal events in this rancor between beliefs and yet he was considered a god by the left. Not the god--that is Barack--but a god.As a matter of fact, I think in 1980 he and his campaign team intimated that Jimmy Carter was a racist. That seemed to lower the bar. I applaud Barack for staying out of this. And actually
I actually agree with the censure--rudeness and rules violations should be criticized--and I appreciate your common sense that this was not racist tinged. It is an example of the decline of common human goodness and decency that has been occurring for decades. I'm not hopeful it will get better soon.
Interested Observer

Concord, MA

#5 Sep 17, 2009
OhC-Mon wrote:
Next point: Let's try a little common sense. Pretend for a moment that you work in an ER. A person shows up with a life threatening injury. What do you do... ask their citizenship?
I'm seriously curious about all you 'taxpayers', if you have any religious principals in this so-called 'Judeo-Christian nation', what does your faith tell you to do? Triage the poor?
That's what we do now and since we subsidize this activity we get more of it. And the cost of treating these 10 or 20 million illegals gets added to our insurance premium or taxes causing some citizens real financial hardship or makes them unable to pay for insurance or their own medical care. My solution is to have fewer illegals stealing our resources. What is your solution? This kindness thing goes both ways. The wave of illegals diminished wages for our less skilled citizens since there was a glut of available unskilled labor. It's simple supply and demand. And then they take free medical care costing hard working regular(John Edward's word from his 2 America's campaign) Americans more of their hard earned money through insurance premiums or taxes. And the jobs were taken from our neediest citizens. Your smug question--attempting ot insult religious believers into your point of view--was pathetic. There should be concern for the devastating effects these costs have on some of our citizens. We can't keep doing this. We can't afford it. Here's a common sense answer. Treat them and deport them. If they become hesitant to use the emergency rooms--well--what are we going to do? It's their choice.
Duh

Lowell, MA

#6 Sep 17, 2009
Interested Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
They booed--is that shouting out? Did that contribute to the rancor?They called Bush a liar and stupid. Does that add to the coarsening of society? Ted Kennedy's Bork speech seems to be to be one of the seminal events in this rancor between beliefs and yet he was considered a god by the left. Not the god--that is Barack--but a god.As a matter of fact, I think in 1980 he and his campaign team intimated that Jimmy Carter was a racist. That seemed to lower the bar. I applaud Barack for staying out of this. And actually
I actually agree with the censure--rudeness and rules violations should be criticized--and I appreciate your common sense that this was not racist tinged. It is an example of the decline of common human goodness and decency that has been occurring for decades. I'm not hopeful it will get better soon.
Good post I agree!
Duh

Lowell, MA

#7 Sep 17, 2009
OhC-Mon wrote:
Next point: Let's try a little common sense. Pretend for a moment that you work in an ER. A person shows up with a life threatening injury. What do you do... ask their citizenship?
I'm seriously curious about all you 'taxpayers', if you have any religious principals in this so-called 'Judeo-Christian nation', what does your faith tell you to do? Triage the poor?
In this computer age, I would think being a citizen could be verified pretty quickly. Treat em and then deport em.

Since: Jun 09

Fredericksburg, VA

#8 Sep 17, 2009
Wasn't this a Twilight Zone episode?
Mike

Gaithersburg, MD

#9 Sep 17, 2009
Treat the person witht he life threatening injury, check their immigration status, send the medical bills to the country where they are from and then DEPORT them when they are healed.

That is EXACTLY what we should do.
OhC-Mon wrote:
Next point: Let's try a little common sense. Pretend for a moment that you work in an ER. A person shows up with a life threatening injury. What do you do... ask their citizenship?
I'm seriously curious about all you 'taxpayers', if you have any religious principals in this so-called 'Judeo-Christian nation', what does your faith tell you to do? Triage the poor?

Since: Jun 09

Fredericksburg, VA

#10 Sep 17, 2009
Mike wrote:
Treat the person witht he life threatening injury, check their immigration status, send the medical bills to the country where they are from and then DEPORT them when they are healed.
That is EXACTLY what we should do.
<quoted text>
As long as we deport you at the same time - I'm good with that.
Understand

Boston, MA

#11 Sep 17, 2009
First of all, Bush blatantly lied about WMD's and other such atrocities and no one interrupted his speeches about it. People have the right to make their opinions clear but they have to know the time and place, ESPECIALLY people who are representing the American people. There is a section of the bill that is titled "No money for illegal immigrants" sure if they go into a hospital and need immediate care, they will be taken care of, but that is no different then today. The hospitals have a duty to it's patients. Why shouldn't we "counsel" elderly about their options. I understand your implications but shouldn't THEY understand their options. The administration isn't out to decide who lives or dies but to help the people decide for themselves. If I can't buy my dream house or drive my gas-guzzling SUV because that money needs to go to saving the life of ONE person in America... then too bad for them my money is more important then their life!? The Nazi's felt the Jews were impeding on their way of life. Do we feel so empowered that because we have money we have the right to decide who lives and who dies? America needs a change because the current system is not working. If people die because of poor medical treatment, the system has failed. Stop the politics and start hearing people and feeling for others. Put away the wallet and start listening to your emotions. We need to fix this bill up and make it work. We need some poking and prodding and people need to pay attention to IT and not to the news. IF you really are interested, read the bill. All 1200 pages... I'm on page 800 as of yet. Stop arguing, stop name calling (uh hem Rep. Wilson) and start working on a better bill for everyone. Stop the scare tactics. Stop the politics and get down to work.
Unenrolled

Tewksbury, MA

#12 Sep 17, 2009
Who in the world has time to write 1214 comments in about 75 days?
(and doesn't even live in our neck of the woods) Why would someone belive it is OK to deport American citzens? Could he/she be a troll, paid to do this stuff. I suspect he/she has as many comments on a lot of other sites too. I have to get back to work. Bye
Simon

Seattle, WA

#13 Sep 17, 2009
Unenrolled wrote:
Who in the world has time to write 1214 comments in about 75 days?
(and doesn't even live in our neck of the woods) Why would someone belive it is OK to deport American citzens? Could he/she be a troll, paid to do this stuff. I suspect he/she has as many comments on a lot of other sites too. I have to get back to work. Bye
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me; your rod and your staff, they comfort me.
Psalm 23:4 (NIV)

http://www.prisonplanet.com/soldier-claims-au...
Billy

Rockville, MD

#14 Sep 17, 2009
Bush isn't the President.....Barry Obama is the President and he is the ONLY one to blame for this health care mess.
Understand wrote:
First of all, Bush blatantly lied about WMD's and other such atrocities and no one interrupted his speeches about it. People have the right to make their opinions clear but they have to know the time and place, ESPECIALLY people who are representing the American people. There is a section of the bill that is titled "No money for illegal immigrants" sure if they go into a hospital and need immediate care, they will be taken care of, but that is no different then today. The hospitals have a duty to it's patients. Why shouldn't we "counsel" elderly about their options. I understand your implications but shouldn't THEY understand their options. The administration isn't out to decide who lives or dies but to help the people decide for themselves. If I can't buy my dream house or drive my gas-guzzling SUV because that money needs to go to saving the life of ONE person in America... then too bad for them my money is more important then their life!? The Nazi's felt the Jews were impeding on their way of life. Do we feel so empowered that because we have money we have the right to decide who lives and who dies? America needs a change because the current system is not working. If people die because of poor medical treatment, the system has failed. Stop the politics and start hearing people and feeling for others. Put away the wallet and start listening to your emotions. We need to fix this bill up and make it work. We need some poking and prodding and people need to pay attention to IT and not to the news. IF you really are interested, read the bill. All 1200 pages... I'm on page 800 as of yet. Stop arguing, stop name calling (uh hem Rep. Wilson) and start working on a better bill for everyone. Stop the scare tactics. Stop the politics and get down to work.
Billy

Rockville, MD

#15 Sep 17, 2009
I was born here, the illegal aliens were not. I pay taxes, they do not. It seems pretty clear who should not be here.
Billy Ringo wrote:
<quoted text>
As long as we deport you at the same time - I'm good with that.
The Old Coach

Spring, TX

#16 Sep 17, 2009
Understand wrote:
First of all, Bush blatantly lied about WMD's and other such atrocities and no one interrupted his speeches about it. People have the right to make their opinions clear but they have to know the time and place, ESPECIALLY people who are representing the American people. There is a section of the bill that is titled "No money for illegal immigrants" sure if they go into a hospital and need immediate care, they will be taken care of, but that is no different then today. The hospitals have a duty to it's patients. Why shouldn't we "counsel" elderly about their options. I understand your implications but shouldn't THEY understand their options. The administration isn't out to decide who lives or dies but to help the people decide for themselves. If I can't buy my dream house or drive my gas-guzzling SUV because that money needs to go to saving the life of ONE person in America... then too bad for them my money is more important then their life!? The Nazi's felt the Jews were impeding on their way of life. Do we feel so empowered that because we have money we have the right to decide who lives and who dies? America needs a change because the current system is not working. If people die because of poor medical treatment, the system has failed. Stop the politics and start hearing people and feeling for others. Put away the wallet and start listening to your emotions. We need to fix this bill up and make it work. We need some poking and prodding and people need to pay attention to IT and not to the news. IF you really are interested, read the bill. All 1200 pages... I'm on page 800 as of yet. Stop arguing, stop name calling (uh hem Rep. Wilson) and start working on a better bill for everyone. Stop the scare tactics. Stop the politics and get down to work.
Prove he blatenly lied. 77 senators and a majority of house members who authroized the use of force didn't and haven't said anything about Bush lying. Why don't you give us proof of this 6 year lie that you libs have been spewing. We'll wait.
Oh-Cmon

Berlin, CT

#17 Sep 17, 2009
Interested Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
They booed--is that shouting out? Did that contribute to the rancor?They called Bush a liar and stupid. Does that add to the coarsening of society? Ted Kennedy's Bork speech seems to be to be one of the seminal events in this rancor between beliefs and yet he was considered a god by the left. Not the god--that is Barack--but a god.As a matter of fact, I think in 1980 he and his campaign team intimated that Jimmy Carter was a racist. That seemed to lower the bar. I applaud Barack for staying out of this. And actually
I actually agree with the censure--rudeness and rules violations should be criticized--and I appreciate your common sense that this was not racist tinged. It is an example of the decline of common human goodness and decency that has been occurring for decades. I'm not hopeful it will get better soon.
I'm pleased that you noted the difference of what occurs in the chamber versus what occurs outside. Presidents have been called idiots or worse since John Adams. Political campaigning has never been pretty... I still remember LBJ's ad against Goldwater. Kennedy's speech on Bork was as vitriolic as any... but confirmation debate on the floor of the Senate is 'protected speech'(something I believe we still cherish, right or left) and Bork is not a member of that body entitled to its courtesies. Hyper-partisan, but allowed under the rules.
I don't rush to 'brand' anyone, racist, socialist or whatever. The only facts that are in evidence are that Joe Wilson is demonstrably partisan and lacking decorum.
Oh-Cmon

Berlin, CT

#19 Sep 17, 2009
You really have to love the truly 'simple' solutions you can find to all of life's complications on these forums! Like "Treat and then deport". So If we didn't want any government bureaucrat coming between us and our doctor, then the solution must be for us to turn all of our doctors into agents for the Immigration and Naturalization Service! Or perhaps have a little 'detention cell' off the side at Lowell General.
Health care is complicated enough without trying to solve a different problem (immigration) in the same place and time!
A better reality on immigration is for the INS to sanction employers of illegals.(Not that I'm that fond of turning even small businesses into INS agents) Or how about the RMV!(There are already police that purportedly work there!)I apologize for straying off topic.
Oh-Cmon

Berlin, CT

#20 Sep 17, 2009
Duh wrote:
<quoted text>
In this computer age, I would think being a citizen could be verified pretty quickly. Treat em and then deport em.
Not as easy as you think. One of my clients is a small business manufacturer in Arizona and playing by the rules isn't easy at all. Remember "To err is human, to screw up massively requires a computer"
Wonder what you would think (BTW, "Duh" is a not uncommon Chinese name, pronounced 'dew') if you as a legal citizen woke up from your knife wound on a boat to China :-)
Oh-Cmon

Berlin, CT

#21 Sep 17, 2009
Interested Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
That's what we do now and since we subsidize this activity we get more of it. And the cost of treating these 10 or 20 million illegals gets added to our insurance premium or taxes causing some citizens real financial hardship or makes them unable to pay for insurance or their own medical care. My solution is to have fewer illegals stealing our resources. What is your solution? This kindness thing goes both ways. The wave of illegals diminished wages for our less skilled citizens since there was a glut of available unskilled labor. It's simple supply and demand. And then they take free medical care costing hard working regular(John Edward's word from his 2 America's campaign) Americans more of their hard earned money through insurance premiums or taxes. And the jobs were taken from our neediest citizens. Your smug question--attempting ot insult religious believers into your point of view--was pathetic. There should be concern for the devastating effects these costs have on some of our citizens. We can't keep doing this. We can't afford it. Here's a common sense answer. Treat them and deport them. If they become hesitant to use the emergency rooms--well--what are we going to do? It's their choice.
Smug? Pathetic? Yeah, Christ must have been all that and more in Matthew 25: 34-45. So, Is Health care a moral issue or not? You wouldn't say that morals have no role in our public discourse, would you?
It's so easy to pick on the poor.... after all.. who speaks for them? The Insurance companies, big hospital corporations and drug companies pay for lobbyists to speak for them.
I'm sure that, having said the above, somebody is ready to 'brand' me a wild-eyed 'liberal'. But I'm just not buying into the scare tactics that companies that soak the government (and YOU!) for HUNDREDS of BILLIONS are trying to put out. Flogging the poor is not the answer to the problems of cost.
an american

Tallahassee, FL

#22 Sep 17, 2009
OhC-Mon wrote:
Next point: Let's try a little common sense. Pretend for a moment that you work in an ER. A person shows up with a life threatening injury. What do you do... ask their citizenship?
I'm seriously curious about all you 'taxpayers', if you have any religious principals in this so-called 'Judeo-Christian nation', what does your faith tell you to do? Triage the poor?
so what does that mean "you taxpayers" you are not included in that statement so you don't pay taxes you freeloader beaner

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