Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 646313 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#479262 Sep 30, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
Truth
Peace
I very much believe this....
The question is, "Who are Israel?"
If we are grafted onto Israel as Christians, and much of the Jews have been removed as deadwood and burned, then as grafted branches, we too are in the wilderness and find REST in Jesus....
What we need to do is remain watchful and become as Jesus. Then we will not be removed and burned as deadwood or unproductive branches.
Keep your mind and heart on Jesus!
Peace
...In other words.....

"Move aside Jews, we are now also claiming "God" as our people."

Really?

Is this how you want the world to understand your inclusion.

Your arrogance is starting to show.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#479263 Sep 30, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
A REMNANT OF ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED.... AND ..THEY WILL NOT BE PART OF A ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH...
Zec 12:8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Zec 12:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
NOTE--->
Zec 12:10 And--> I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications:
and THEY SHALL LOOK UPON ME WHOM THEY HAVE PIERCED...
they SHALL MOURN FOR HIM, as one mourneth for his only son, and
shall be in bitterness for him,
as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. <--
---
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
ISRAEL WILL RECEIVE JESUS (THEIR LORD AND SAVIOR) AS THEIR MESSIAH...
~~~~

JUDGE THE TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD AS YOU WISH.

Rom_3:4 ... yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and

mightest overcome when thou art judged.

GOD'S WORD WILL STAND WHEN THE FLAMES OF HELL ARE LICKING AT YOUR FEET...
Anthony MN

Champlin, MN

#479264 Sep 30, 2013
Concerned in Brasil wrote:
<quoted text>
No these sites do not destroy anything, but ignorance is bliss
Please try to address one point I make with a logical rational argument and stop the he said she said because I say so its got be.
Clearly you think as does Clay your infallible in determining what is infallible.
LOL
You both are such Hypocrites, you both believe in Sola determination of what is infallible.
These sites take Webster's arguments point by point and completely dismantles every thing he presents. I'd think someone with your academic credentials, if he were not patently biased, would take the time to actually read them and attempt a response of some sort. In spite of all your advanced degrees, it seems to me you're nothing more than a shill for amatuer historians like Wlliam Webster.
Clay

Detroit, MI

#479265 Sep 30, 2013
Gods R Delusions wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks Clay, I understand the teaching. What I was referring to is the claim that the RCC HAS NEVER CHANGED ITS TEACHINGS.
That is a clear change. And yes, that teaching ("no salvation outside the Church") is clearly supported by the Gospels (John for example).
Yet now, the last three Popes have taught that this teaching is wrong -- that anyone can be saved, even atheists.
That is only one of many changes that can be documented.
After all, if there have been "no changes," then there would have been no need to update the Catechism so many times through the centuries?
Doctrine can't be 'changed' as in flip flopped to mean something opposite. But it can develope as we develope. They still teach 'no salvation' outside the Church, but from day one, it was understood that God alone is responsible for who gets saved, not us. For example, Jesus saved the thief on the cross because He could. For all of us who heard the Gospel, we know what's expected of us to get saved. For all others, its up to the infinite love and mercy of God who'll be the final judge.
Anthony MN

Champlin, MN

#479266 Sep 30, 2013
Concerned in Brasil wrote:
<quoted text>
Ding Dong
If you read why did you say I did not give it, Wow you make your lies up on the fly and keep digging you are some 6 feet under and still digging.
Your sect says that the tradition was always believed from the early Church days.
It’s your sect that must produce the biblical and early church evidence for the assumption. Yet your very own RC scholars say it was not even mentioned till the 3rd century.
I am Clearly debating with a disingenuous dumb dumb, how’s that for name calling at least I get it right.
I have posted over and over again the evidence of the millions killed.
But again for sake of arrangement use the numbers the RCC uses, they don't deny they murdered heretics, and ONE ONE alone makes my assertion true your church is not one. Your sect is one of the 42000 or 30000 or whatever secular list your sect is going by these days.
I'll assume you have nothing to back up your assertions that early popes rejected the Assumption and the CC killed millions.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#479267 Sep 30, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
Truth
Peace
I very much believe this....
The question is, "Who are Israel?"
If we are grafted onto Israel as Christians, and much of the Jews have been removed as deadwood and burned, then as grafted branches, we too are in the wilderness and find REST in Jesus....
What we need to do is remain watchful and become as Jesus. Then we will not be removed and burned as deadwood or unproductive branches.
Keep your mind and heart on Jesus!

~~~

YOU SAY KEEP YOU MIND UPON JESUS AND WELL WE SHOULD...

BUT WE ALSO NEED TO HAVE SOME KNOWLEDGE OF THE PIT FROM WHICH WE WERE DELIVERED AND HOW IT TOOK PLACE...

THEIR ROLE IN THEIR REJECTION OF JESUS BY ISRAEL (AS A NATION )IS IMPORTANT TO ALL CHRISTIANS..

___

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counselor?

Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#479268 Sep 30, 2013
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
God better get a better switchboard operator because despite some people here wanting to block my calls he has answered my prayers and saved me from death at least 2 times. He is answering me now cause I feel his sense of peace.And NOONE can take that away from me with their vain words in Topix.
Thank God
Anthony MN

Champlin, MN

#479269 Sep 30, 2013
Concerned in Brasil wrote:
<quoted text>
I say Jesus only used scripture for doctrine you post he celebrated Hanukkah So what it does not contradict scripture and Jesus never said we should continue the tradition had he it would be scripture.
I practice Christmas on December 25th which is not in the bible either but it does not contradict scripture either.
DO YOU HAVE a POINT??????
Yes I am screaming at you this is absurd to say the least.
Your statement;

"never once do the use what you call tradition."

Hanukkah isn't in your KJV(it IS in the Catholic and Orthodox bibles), yet Jesus observed it. If it's not in your bible, why would He have observed this "tradition"?

"There are some instances of Sacred Tradition in the Bible that are interesting. For instance, in Acts 20:35, Paul says the following:

"In all things I have shown you that by so toiling one must help the weak, remembering the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said,`It is more blessed to give than to receive.'"
These words are not recorded anywhere else in the Bible, including the 4 gospels, so this is one example of an oral teaching of Jesus being handed on to Paul,who hands it down to us.

Another example of this is in the book of Jude 1:9, which says the following:

"But when the archangel Michael, contending with the devil, disputed about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a reviling judgment upon him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you."
This dispute, between the Archangel Michael and the devil over Moses' body, is nowhere to be found in the written text of the Old Testament.

Here are a few more:

Matthew 2:23:And he went and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled, "He shall be called a Nazarene."(This "he shall be called a Nazarene" prophecy is not in written scripture anywhere).

Matthew 23:2:"The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat;"(Moses' seat is not mentioned anywhere in written scripture).

1 Corinthians 10:4:"and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ." (Nowhere in the Old Testament does it say that a rock "followed" the Israelites in the desert.)

2 Timothy 3:8: "As Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of corrupt mind and counterfeit faith;" (These 2 individuals who opposed Moses are not written in the Old Testament).

Hebrews 11:35: "Women received their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, that they might rise again to a better life" (This is a direct reference to 2 Maccabees 7, which Luther threw out of his bible in the 16th century. This story cannot be found anywhere in the Protestant Bible. It is in the Catholic Bible, and has been since the 4th century.)

http://www.catholicbible101.com/sacredtraditi...

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#479270 Sep 30, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
This is one of the reasons why I have trouble believing you. I was only doubting your story of the Catholic woman who said your daughter wasn't in Heaven. I wasn't doubting the death of your daughter.
And I'm certainly not calling you a flat out liar about the Philippino Catholic woman. I just can't see how anyone would go to their neighbor after they've just lost a child and say, "your daughter isn't in Heaven, so I'm praying for her". I mean, it COULD happen, I just find it difficult to believe. I know what I would do to my neighbor if they said that to me. And there are morons out there that would say that to a grieving Mother, but the odds are not very high. part of me thought you made it up to smear the Church on has limbo understandings. sorry for making you upset and reliving that terrible time period.
Clay

And,I'm saying this,seriously to try to make you understand .

If the woman was older ..a,devout Catholic ...Dr was,most likely afraid for the child due to what she had been taught ..heard ..who knows,

This happened years,ago..was she tactful..no.

Sounds like she was concerned for the child's afterlife ..And did EHAT she knew to do Pray ...for her soul .

If Church teaching changed after that 're LIMBO and baptized children ..as it has ..I'm not surprised she would feel as she did ..
Though I would never HAVE SAID such a thing out loud ..just prayed
Had I believed as,she did ..And at one one I DID

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#479271 Sep 30, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
Truth
Peace
After rereading Gen Chapter 37, I see nothing about the nation of Israel.
I see two dreams of Joseph, and both of them basically say that Joseph will be served by brothers, and even his father(Israel).
I think it is wishful thinking to infer this means that the nation of Israel is referred to in Revelation.
Non-catholic(Protestant teachings) it appears to me, IMHO need to have this refer to the Nation of Israel, especially at this time of critical angst among themselves. It becomes a sort of pivotal role in their preaching the end of the world is almost here scenarios.
To those who live by no one knows the day, but just be ready for the time of Jesus' return, there is not this sort of desperate justification of belief that the Nation of Israel is the Woman in Revelation....
Peace
Jesus,came out of the Nation of Israel
The Church..body of believers,started there ..The remnant of God's Chosen are and will be there ..NO MATTER IF TE END IS NEAR OR A HIBDRED YEARS,FROM NOW,..I don't see it as s desperate belief .
We KNOW THAT IS,WHERE JESUS WILL RETURN..where the,witnesses,will preach .
Where Jesus,Will reign in the New,Jerusalem .
Israel gave BIRTH TO OUR COMMON FAITH. The,Resurrection was,there .
The Spirit manifested there ..
Your Church is very interested in a,presence there ..
I think.I COUKD be Israel being the woman.
If it's Mary ..Well then it is ..
We won't know till it happens ..
You all think its Mary I assume ??
Structurally ..why ..please??

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#479272 Sep 30, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
Preston
I prefer to not addressing you directly, as you have asked me not to address you. And it helps keep you from getting upset, and using language you may come to regret. It is not my goal to do so, and I know that when I question your "preaching/teaching" it does upset you....
But since you prefer to believe in extra-biblical accounts to justify your preaching that the family of Jesus did not flee to the wilderness in which the Jews fled Egypt, I will let you be accountable for preaching your beliefs.
As a general rule, when I see something you preach I think is incorrect, I will just make a general post to everyone, so if they are interested, they can pursue it, and determine for themselves what is to be or not to be believed.
I believe there is only One Preacher, and Teacher, One Healer. And those who know His Voice follow Him.
Peace
Who ??

Really ..I agree ..we have ONE HIGH PRIEST ..JESUS CHRIST ..from whom we,know of the Father
Anthony MN

Champlin, MN

#479273 Sep 30, 2013
Concerned in Brasil wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus says in the Bible these words are spirit and not literal, most early church fathers agree with me, but I will go with Jesus he trumps all that comes after him, those that come after Jesus agree with him and speak the truth or disagree with him and at the very least are in error.
Paul's spoken words were found to agree with scripture and accompanied with miracles he raised the dead in their presence.
Your RCC assertions contradict the scriptures that came before and are not accompanied by miracles only death and lies.
Are you that blind to see the difference???
"most early church fathers agree with me"

All early Church fathers and the Catholic Church agrees with you that Jesus said His words were Spirit. All of the early fathers and the Catholic Church says He meant that it requires supernatural spiritual faith to accept His teaching and reject carnal logic. None of the early fathers agreed with you that He was not speaking literally. Why do most protestants not even agree that Jesus is "spiritually" present in the Eucharist? Why do they say it's only symbolic? No where in the bible does it equate "spiritual" with "symbolic".

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#479274 Sep 30, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
GOD'S LOVE DOES NOT DEPEND UPON US BEING A PART OF AN EARTHLY RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION...
OUR SALVATION
DOES NOT DEPEND UPON RITUALS, CEREMONIES, RELIGIOUS CALISTHENICS OR NAME OF DENOMINATION WE BELONG TO...
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
NOTE ..WE ARE JUSTIFIED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS...
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
WE WERE RECONCILED TO GOD BY THE DEATH OF JESUS.
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
JESUS' BLOOD WAS SHED FOR OUR ATONEMENT.
Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
ORIGINALLY... SIN CAME UPON ALL MEN THROUGH THE SIN OF ADAM
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
DEATH,.... SEPARATION FROM GOD CAME TO ALL MEN THROUGH ADAMS TRANSGRESSION.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift.
For if through the offence of one many be dead,
much more the grace of God, and
RECONCILIATION CAME THROUGH JESUS ..hE IS THE GIFT OF GOD'S GRACE
the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ,
hath abounded unto many.
Rom 5:16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation,
but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
WE ARE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH..
Rom_3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom_5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom_5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Tit_3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
-------
Tit 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and
pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
Tit 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done,
but according to his mercy he saved us,
by the washing of regeneration, and
renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that
they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.
These things are good and profitable unto men.
Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
THE LAWS OF CATHOLICISM.... ARE JUST AS WORTHLESS
TO THE GENTILES ...UNDER GRACE... AS IS THE LEVITICAL LAWS ...OF MOSES
When are you going to post some teachings by Jesus that confirms what "Paul" states?
Clay

Detroit, MI

#479275 Sep 30, 2013
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
Clay
And,I'm saying this,seriously to try to make you understand .
If the woman was older ..a,devout Catholic ...Dr was,most likely afraid for the child due to what she had been taught ..heard ..who knows,
This happened years,ago..was she tactful..no.
Sounds like she was concerned for the child's afterlife ..And did EHAT she knew to do Pray ...for her soul .
If Church teaching changed after that 're LIMBO and baptized children ..as it has ..I'm not surprised she would feel as she did ..
Though I would never HAVE SAID such a thing out loud ..just prayed
Had I believed as,she did ..And at one one I DID
There really is no way to reconcile this incident. They most certainly took it the wrong way. regardless, it dug up some pain.
And yeah you're right, the woman may have believed their child was in limbo... this was the thought of many people back then. Why on Earth she would tell a grieving mother that is beyond me. But I'm not going to be able to be patch this up I see, with those two. So its best to drop it and next time i won't say anything due to the sensitive subject.

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#479276 Sep 30, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
Truth
Peace
Have you ever thought about the difference between the nation of Israel, and the Kingdom of David and Solomon?
Have you ever thought that the secular state of Israel today, is not the nostalgic religious people of God(that Christians look on in the Middle East today)?
Since the creation of the secular state of Israel, which IMHO you probably believe to be the nation of Israel, there has not been a move toward old religious ways....It is more of a wishful thinking on the part of a segment of Christianity that believes/ wants to believe the end is here....It might be a deception by Satan to lure people into all sorts of cults, diverting them from Jesus Christ. The end may not be for thousands, tens of thousands of years....
Live your life by following Jesus. Its really hard at times to do, with so much diversion from that Goal. Keep your eye on Jesus, listen to Him.
Peace
Yes,

Israel is,secular..however the,Jews,HAVE RETURNED ..as,prophesied,.

There,is,Messianic movement there

More ..there,are those FAITHFUL JEWS preparing for a,NEW TEMPLE ..
EDUCATING priests,making vestments,and instruments,of worship .
Red heifers being raised
Will there be one in our lifetime ..only God knows,..But educate faithfully preparing for worship and for Messiah..he faithful Jews who worship YAHWEH..Will not be forgotten by the Father.

The,desert is blooming.. grapes growing ..all prophesied ..

In Jesus time the government was,ROMAN .

Jerusalem will be,as,David's,kingdom only when Jesus,sits,on David's,throne

And we HAVE..no idea,when ..But unlike before 1948.''Israel is a nation ..with Jews returned from the Diaspora..as,prophesied .

It's right that they have a,HOME ..unlike those turned away in the war Ro be slaughtered ..no country to accept them ..

And,God used THIS,COUNTRY to help ..Thank God ..
Gods R Delusions

Orlando, FL

#479277 Sep 30, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not true. The Catholic Church has always taught and still teaches that Mary needed savior. Her saving came in a different way, at her conception. But she still needed God to save her first.
Let me ask you, why do you care what we believe? God is a not real according to you..
Ex-Catholic.

It's all myth, but at least allow us to get the myth straight.

Forgive me if I was wrong, but everything RCC I read says Mary was born with without original sin, remained sinless, and ascended bodily into Heaven (just like Jesus).

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/immaculate-con...

Can you show us anything to suggest that the RCC teaches that Mary needed saving.

Anything?
Anthony MN

Champlin, MN

#479278 Sep 30, 2013
Concerned in Brasil wrote:
<quoted text>
Your posts are getting lamer but it looks like fun let me try.
"If any RCC apologist would like to answer this challenge, then please tell me show me, the infallible Unanimous historical tradition of early Church Fathers on doctrinal content were it is over 70% agreement on the following Holy
Tradition dogmas, according to the RCC, on (1) Baptism,(2) Eucharist,(3) the sacraments or "ordinances" in general,(4) Church government,(5) church services or how to conduct Liturgy,(6) salvation,(7) predestination and free will,(8) any number of moral issues: divorce, re-marriage, contraception, abortion, etc. Since there is great disagreement among "official" Protestant statements of faith, one cannot possibly know what is the official "Protestant position" (or from Holy Scripture the infallible "doctrinal content") on any of these issues."
But let me give you some help if it was unanimous there never would of been the need for Councils that never were unanimous in the end either.
Excuse my bluntness but you will be peeing in the wind if you try.
All dogmas are over 70%. lol.

From your pet "expert":

William Webster, a former Catholic turned Evangelical, in his 1995 book The Church of Rome at the Bar of History, freely admits the unanimous position of the Church Fathers as to what is called "baptismal regeneration" :

"The doctrine of baptism is one of the few teachings within Roman Catholicism for which it can be said that there is a universal consent of the Fathers....From the early days of the Church, baptism was universally perceived as the means of receiving four basic gifts: the remission of sins, deliverance from death, regeneration, and the bestowal of the Holy Spirit." (Webster, page 95-96)

ReginaM

Bloomfield, NJ

#479279 Sep 30, 2013
Gods R Delusions wrote:
<quoted text>
Ex-Catholic.
It's all myth, but at least allow us to get the myth straight.
Forgive me if I was wrong, but everything RCC I read says Mary was born with without original sin, remained sinless, and ascended bodily into Heaven (just like Jesus).
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/immaculate-con...
Can you show us anything to suggest that the RCC teaches that Mary needed saving.
Anything?
From the link you provided:

Mary, too, required a Savior. Like all other descendants of Adam, she was subject to the necessity of contracting original sin. But by a special intervention of God, undertaken at the instant she was conceived, she was preserved from the stain of original sin and its consequences. She was therefore redeemed by the grace of Christ, but in a special way—by anticipation.

Consider an analogy: Suppose a man falls into a deep pit, and someone reaches down to pull him out. The man has been "saved" from the pit. Now imagine a woman walking along, and she too is about to topple into the pit, but at the very moment that she is to fall in, someone holds her back and prevents her. She too has been saved from the pit, but in an even better way: She was not simply taken out of the pit, she was prevented from getting stained by the mud in the first place. This is the illustration Christians have used for a thousand years to explain how Mary was saved by Christ. By receiving Christ’s grace at her conception, she had his grace applied to her before she was able to become mired in original sin and its stain.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that she was "redeemed in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son" (CCC 492). She has more reason to call God her Savior than we do, because he saved her in an even more glorious manner!
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/immaculate-con...
Gods R Delusions

Orlando, FL

#479280 Sep 30, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
These sites take Webster's arguments point by point and completely dismantles every thing he presents. I'd think someone with your academic credentials, if he were not patently biased, would take the time to actually read them and attempt a response of some sort. In spite of all your advanced degrees, it seems to me you're nothing more than a shill for amatuer historians like Wlliam Webster.
You are writing in a delusional manner - self-delusion.

Your statement -- "They still teach 'no salvation' outside the Church" -- is simply not true.

There either is salvation, or there is not salvation "outside the church."

The term "no salvation outside the church" was taught and understood for centuries, even before it was codified by Papal Bull in the early 1300s.

Previous Catechisms were clear on the matter.

The Gospels are clear on the matter (ask your Baptist buddies).

The RCC changed its teaching 180 degrees. So what? It did what was right and just. Like formally denouncing slavery.

You shouldn't allow delusional dogma get in the way of righteousness.
Anthony MN

Champlin, MN

#479281 Sep 30, 2013
Concerned in Brasil wrote:
For Ant more from your Hero
William Webster
Scripture has authority, as both Roman Catholics and evangelical Protestants will agree, because it is the Word of God. But Scripture is not the Word of God merely because the Church says it is. Scripture’s authority is derived from its intrinsic nature as a communication from God to man—it has an authority independent of the Church. In this chapter we want to examine the nature of that authority and the claim that Scripture is inspired by God and thereby trustworthy.
The basis on which Christians accept the inspiration of Scripture is because the Scriptures themselves make that claim. This is significant because if they did not claim divine inspiration for themselves then we would have no right to claim it for them. However, in 2 Peter 1:20-21, the apostle writes:‘But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.’ Peter is unequivocally claiming that the prophetic Scriptures are not a human but a divine work, that the authors wrote under the control of the Holy Spirit, and therefore that the Scriptures come from God.1
The fullest statement on the divine inspiration of Scripture, however, is found in Paul’s second letter to Timothy (3:15-17):
From childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
Paul clearly states here that all Scripture is inspired by God. He is referring specifically to the Old Testament since the New Testament canon was not complete at the time he wrote, but the New Testament must also be covered by this statement for in 2 Peter 3:16 Peter refers to Paul’s writings (including this epistle to Timothy) as Scripture. The apostles were confident to make such claims for their own writings because Jesus had promised them that the Holy Spirit would guide them in all truth, thereby enabling them to write the New Testament Scriptures (John 16:13).
cont
You choose to flood the board with spam. Those who prefer the more scholarly approach will actually post a link and allow the readers to see the issue debated. Never took a debate class with all those advanced degrees did you?

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