Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 596396 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#477079 Sep 19, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
NASL
I understand. Many people on this thread do not accept standard definitions(or they have not studied simple words they use, which have many meanings). In your case, it is faith and belief.
You seem inclined to understanding they are interchangeable.
They are not.
Faith is not supported by physical evidence, as hard observable facts, as you would desire it to be, nor can I relinquish it from heaven to earth, and give it qualifiers and quantifiers, as you would desire it from me also....
The virtues of faith and belief have been discussed and refined definitions are available to you. I can only give you my limited experience with them, and convey by conceptualizing and writing to you about them.
Writing can be an art-form, and also a technical description. I try to use them both in the vehicle of language.
Our difficulty in communicating lies in the your relationship of seeking to make all created(seen and unseen) things as observable, and intellectual.
Of course human beings have a fair degree of sophistication in the intellectual realm, I agree. But for me, it is a means, and not an end.
You would have me make faith an intellectual exercise in observation, but this is not the case. So you seek to discount faith and call it non-existent. You have an existential problem, through which your comfort zone is called the paranormal. It is kind of a blurry, foggy world, this paranormal experience you live in.
Do you even read anything I write, or just find certain words and then respond to those willy-nilly.

Faith - learned
Belief - acquired after faith

I never claimed they are interchangeable, but they do directly affect each other.

C'mon HB - you can claim I am unlearned, but you really are far off-base.

"The virtues of faith and belief have been discussed and refined definitions are available to you. I can only give you my limited experience with them, and convey by conceptualizing and writing to you about them."
- WOW!! Really - your admitted limited knowledge of faith and belief, gives you credence to admonish my faith and belief?

Oh really now? Please check your arrogance at the door.

Please define in detail:

a. How you acquired "faith".
b. How you acquired belief.

We'll see if you know what you are talking about or not.

Please be sure to NOT use words like, "I", "Me", or any pronoun that reflects Self.

What I will be looking for, is for you to provide me the moment "God", the HS, or Jesus came to you specifically and bestowed upon you the faith and belief you have - magically.

Go! I'll wait.

Sheez - you, like Anthony, can't even make up shite that is believable.

Honesty HB - honesty. It all starts and ends with you.

No religion required.
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#477080 Sep 19, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
I have found no humility here in this forum from any Roman Catholic
All I have found is arrogance and refutation of the word of God.
I witness the destruction of the basic fundamental teaching of the Bible..and truth being replaced with carnal minded conjecture.
I cannot... and will not ...establish compatibility with fables
and inventions that have no foundation in the scriptures.
There are to many hoops required that one has to jump through.
JESUS SAID..
Mar_16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
jOHN WROTE
Joh_3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh_3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh_3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Joh_5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Joh_6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Joh_11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
AS FOR ME I AM
Heb_12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our/MY faith;
who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the
shame, and
is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
I WILL NOT LISTEN TO OR GIVE PLACE TO THOSE THAT TEACH OTHERWISE.....
I STAKE MY ETERNAL LIFE/SOUL/FATE.... UPON HIS WORD ALONE...
YOUR ALLEGED POPE SAID...
Joh_6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord,
to whom shall we go?
thou hast the words of eternal life.
----
ACCORDING TO PETER....JESUS IS THE SUPREME AUTHORITY ...
THERE IS NO OTHER...
IF OTHERS THINK THEY CAN FIND THE WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE... ELSEWHERE...
THEY ARE IN FOR A HORRIFIC RUDE ETERNAL AWAKENING...
confronting

Peace

Appearances can be deceiving.

I think there are a lot of humble people on this thread. But their writing skills tend to make them misunderstood.

So I have to put the question to you directly, "Is it better for a person to be humble and contrite, or be educated "correctly" regarding Scripture?" I want you to think about it, with respect to Isaiah 66:2....

Is it not the one who listens and hears the Word of God, the one who is humble? Be careful, that your perceived mission in life walks by the most humble, and humbled person(s)....

Peace
Anthony MN

Champlin, MN

#477081 Sep 19, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
More false claims Anthony?
How is it that you know what the HS does and doesn't do?
I can understand why you follow men, you just can't fathom telling the truth.
marge, confrinting and the rest of the Christians here agree with me that the Holy Spirit cannot guide us to contradictory truths. The only thing in question is why they say it but don't believe it.
marge

Ames, IA

#477082 Sep 19, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
And, Marge, you cannot be a saved person believing in "faith alone!"
As opposed to faith plus works? That would be a false gospel Hank!
headlines

AOL

#477083 Sep 19, 2013
.

VATICAN -- ISRAEL debating TEMPLE MOUNT

http://youtu.be/Qt9kEQB4ti8

.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#477084 Sep 19, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope - you are wrong again. Man, Anthony, are you ever right?
I actually feel great. "Tippy-tappy with a song in my heart" to be exact.
I do have thoughts running around pertaining to my wife though, as she has been recently diagnosed with a uncurable disease.
But that really is of not any concern here, huh?
I wonder how many people will think that if they pray hard enough, the disease will "just go away"??
*sighs*
I'm arealist, like Jethro, in this regard. If medical science cannot cure her, then I know for a fact it will be highly unlikely "God" will.
If "He" does - you will be the first one to know, okay?
NASL...

I am sorry about your wife.....

You MUST believe in the power of prayer....

I have put her on my prayer list....

If we can be healed spiritually, why do you not think we can be healed physically???
Human Being

Kinder, LA

#477085 Sep 19, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you even read anything I write, or just find certain words and then respond to those willy-nilly.
Faith - learned
Belief - acquired after faith
I never claimed they are interchangeable, but they do directly affect each other.
C'mon HB - you can claim I am unlearned, but you really are far off-base.
"The virtues of faith and belief have been discussed and refined definitions are available to you. I can only give you my limited experience with them, and convey by conceptualizing and writing to you about them."
- WOW!! Really - your admitted limited knowledge of faith and belief, gives you credence to admonish my faith and belief?
Oh really now? Please check your arrogance at the door.
Please define in detail:
a. How you acquired "faith".
b. How you acquired belief.
We'll see if you know what you are talking about or not.
Please be sure to NOT use words like, "I", "Me", or any pronoun that reflects Self.
What I will be looking for, is for you to provide me the moment "God", the HS, or Jesus came to you specifically and bestowed upon you the faith and belief you have - magically.
Go! I'll wait.
Sheez - you, like Anthony, can't even make up shite that is believable.
Honesty HB - honesty. It all starts and ends with you.
No religion required.
NASL

You are trying to be funny here, by asking a personal question and the response cannot have personal pronouns....But to keep it in the third person....

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and evidence of things unseen, and generally described in ontological terms.

Belief is based on experience and knowledge which makes it more subject to epistemology.

Faith and belief often run parallel, meet at points, or segments in a persons life. At times, they may also seem contrary and dissimilar.(Often emotions and reasoning ability determine the directions faith and beliefs take in ones life.)

The personal anecdotes of the writer are not on display for reasons unsuitable to the readers at this time.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#477086 Sep 19, 2013
marge wrote:
<quoted text>
As opposed to faith plus works? That would be a false gospel Hank!
Marge,

Ephesians 2:10

10 For we are Godís handiwork, <created IN Christ Jesus> *to DO good works,* which God prepared in advance for us to DO.

***created IN Christ Jesus.....

***to DO good works.....

Good works are done in every area of our lives as a disciple of Christ.....

Good works leads to love....God is LOVE......

When real faith grows, good works grow as well.
Regina

Toms River, NJ

#477087 Sep 19, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope - you are wrong again. Man, Anthony, are you ever right?
I actually feel great. "Tippy-tappy with a song in my heart" to be exact.
I do have thoughts running around pertaining to my wife though, as she has been recently diagnosed with a uncurable disease.
But that really is of not any concern here, huh?
I wonder how many people will think that if they pray hard enough, the disease will "just go away"??
*sighs*
I'm arealist, like Jethro, in this regard. If medical science cannot cure her, then I know for a fact it will be highly unlikely "God" will.
If "He" does - you will be the first one to know, okay?
I'm sorry to hear about your wife, Nasl. I'll hold her in my prayers. And you, too.
Regina

Toms River, NJ

#477088 Sep 19, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Marge,
Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are Godís handiwork, <created IN Christ Jesus> *to DO good works,* which God prepared in advance for us to DO.
***created IN Christ Jesus.....
***to DO good works.....
Good works are done in every area of our lives as a disciple of Christ.....
Good works leads to love....God is LOVE......
When real faith grows, good works grow as well.
Hank, how good it is to see you! I've thought of you often and hope all is well with you and your family.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#477089 Sep 19, 2013
Regina wrote:
<quoted text>
Hank, how good it is to see you! I've thought of you often and hope all is well with you and your family.
Hi Regina,

Good to see you on here, too.

Wife and I have had it pretty rough since 2012....too much sadness and sorrow.

I would appreciate your prayers for comfort.

I too have thought of you and many others on here. Hope you and the family are fine.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#477090 Sep 19, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
marge, confrinting and the rest of the Christians here agree with me that the Holy Spirit cannot guide us to contradictory truths. The only thing in question is why they say it but don't believe it.
Do you - or anyone - have proof that the "HS cannot guide us to contradictory truths"?

Let's see....

a. You say you beleive Jesus, but refuse to acknowledge many of his teachings.
b. You don't have any specific text or passage that states the HS is guiding others differently than you.
c. You don't have any specific text or passage that states that "God" inspired certain texts, so a belief can be formed from those texts.

You really don't have much to go on.

It appears to me, the HS is not guiding you or them.

Unless you THINK [Self] that ONLY certain men received this information, without ever documenting it.

I'm not so sure you have all the answers yourself, Anthony, but still claim others (your heirarchy) do.
Anthony MN

Champlin, MN

#477091 Sep 19, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Then post your rebuttal to what I've stated.
Since you haven't, when will you?
It sounds to me, that you don't want to be labeled as such, but somehow, you can't find the evidence to support your position.
Sounds to me, you are the one "losing".
Sorry.."losing" the argument. I and others have many times, i.e., you DO listen to men just a we do, through apostolic succession the canon was determined and the gnostic texts rejected, etc. Not liking the answer doesn't mean they haven't been rebutted.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#477092 Sep 19, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry to hear about your wife. In the future you might try to be a little less snide in your remarks and you'll most likely receive a more charitable response.
I appreciate your kind words, Anthony.

As for my directness - too much for you to handle, huh?

Sorry, if being direct shows people they have an incomplete view of Jesus, then maybe they should review the information much more, to find out why they only believe certain things about the man.

As for charitable responses - do you really think they will help my wife? How so? It seems they only give comfort to those who say them, just so they can pat themselves ont he back and congratulate themselves for a "job well done! On to the next one!".

C'mon, we are not in K-6 grades here - I've moved well past accepting what men have stated to be true.

History is changing before our eyes, when will you realize that what men think is the truth, really was just a "truth" when they wrote it.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#477093 Sep 19, 2013
Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
NASL...
I am sorry about your wife.....
You MUST believe in the power of prayer....
I have put her on my prayer list....
If we can be healed spiritually, why do you not think we can be healed physically???
Thanks Truth for the well wishes.

Let's do a prayer experiment, if you think it works, okay?

As for:

"You MUST believe in the power of prayer...."
- Why?

"I have put her on my prayer list...."
Cool. When will I know your prayer was reviewed and your hope for my wife to be healed physically?
- How many people are on your list? I hope it isn't a long one.

:o)

"If we can be healed spiritually, why do you not think we can be healed physically?"
- where ever did you get this from? Please post where I stated this.
- This is where you are incorrect in what you think I believe. Why you may ask? Well - I'll tell you....

a. I do KNOW we heal ourselves. Cuts heal, broken bones heal. We are bio-electrical beings, that have healing capabilities.
b. The spiritual mind can also help heal your physical body. I've already posted an example of such, that occurred to me, after a 9-hour cancer surgery. You don't have to twist your thoughts in a way to say I don't believe in "positive thoughts that heal", because I do.

So, about this prayer experiment - ready to go?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#477094 Sep 19, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
NASL
You are trying to be funny here, by asking a personal question and the response cannot have personal pronouns....But to keep it in the third person....
Actually HB, I'm not. I'm quite serious when speaking on religious things and subjects.

I personally don't think you have the ability to tell me where you received "faith and belief" from, WITHOUT mentioning yourself in the process.

So yes, please continue with posting where you acquired these attributes - and don't use your Self as part of the answer.
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and evidence of things unseen, and generally described in ontological terms.
"evidence of things unseen"
- Huh? A thought generated from one;s mind is unseen, so you now think [Self] that an unseen act within your mind, jsutifies an unseen things? Goofy.
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
Belief is based on experience and knowledge which makes it more subject to epistemology.
This is more accurate, of course IMO.

But more importantly - this is Self.

You would not have any belief in anything, if:
a. you had not been told of the belief
b. how to believe
c. accepting of the belief

All require Self. Unless you of course, had "God", Jesus, or the HS come to you personally and bestow these things upon you. Did one of these being do this? When? How? Why did they do this to you, and not, we'll say, Anthony or marge?

You do realize you are starting to sound ridiculous and speaking without all the facts, right?
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
Faith and belief often run parallel, meet at points, or segments in a persons life. At times, they may also seem contrary and dissimilar.(Often emotions and reasoning ability determine the directions faith and beliefs take in ones life.)
Self.

You'll promote the Self, yet refute it when it comes to spiritual notions. Why?
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
The personal anecdotes of the writer are not on display for reasons unsuitable to the readers at this time.
Uhm - okay.

You do realize we are talking about texts that have the original authors, already dead, right?

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#477095 Sep 19, 2013
Regina wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry to hear about your wife, Nasl. I'll hold her in my prayers. And you, too.
WHEW-WHEW!!

She is sure to be physically healed now!!

:o)

When the doctor's say the disease is gone, I'll be sure to come back here and let you all know that your praying worked, okay?

You know Regina, in truth, I'd rather have read a response from you that stated something like the following:

"Hey New Age - sorry to have read about the ailment that has befallen your wife. Please keep her comfortable and continue to be positive with her, because whatever length of time she has with us on this Earth, help her to stay happy, content, cheerful, and most loving. This will allow you both to have the quality time you need."

I've already shown the forum where praying for someone to heal without medical help - FAILS.

Are you saying I should do the same? Just pray to "God" to heal her, all the while, just watch her die in front of my eyes?

I think not and I think most will also agree, that "just praying" will not heal her.

But thanks for the well wishes, as I know she, a "Christian" understands your empathy, as do I. Thanks!

Like you and others, we are on different sides of the statements that this forum conveys. Using logic and reason, faith and belief, I can say without hesitation, I do appreciate everyone's wishes, as they are said with sincerity and hope, and are said only to see a good result. These are things that I do take to heart and understand quite well.

I may be the 'bad guy' to some,'spawn of Satan' to others, or even just plain ol' "goofy', but in truth, I am no where near any of those things. I can say, through honesty, that I've probably helped probably hundreds of lives, and I will continue to strive to help others to stay a steady course in their life and on THEIR path - as we each have our own.

The crosses we bear in life are our own. Make them your own, but also understand them so you have the ability to remove them from your life.

Honesty is the starting point. Praying will allow you to acknowledge them, but acting upon them will require your effort.

Peace and light to you and yours.
Truth

Leesburg, VA

#477096 Sep 19, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks Truth for the well wishes.
Let's do a prayer experiment, if you think it works, okay?
As for:
"You MUST believe in the power of prayer...."
- Why?
"I have put her on my prayer list...."
Cool. When will I know your prayer was reviewed and your hope for my wife to be healed physically?
- How many people are on your list? I hope it isn't a long one.
:o)
"If we can be healed spiritually, why do you not think we can be healed physically?"
- where ever did you get this from? Please post where I stated this.
- This is where you are incorrect in what you think I believe. Why you may ask? Well - I'll tell you....
a. I do KNOW we heal ourselves. Cuts heal, broken bones heal. We are bio-electrical beings, that have healing capabilities.
b. The spiritual mind can also help heal your physical body. I've already posted an example of such, that occurred to me, after a 9-hour cancer surgery. You don't have to twist your thoughts in a way to say I don't believe in "positive thoughts that heal", because I do.
So, about this prayer experiment - ready to go?
From your response NASL, it sounds like to me that you are making fun of the "power of prayer."

If you are not then please forgive me.

God answers prayers on His own time....not on our time.

Believe me, if you knew what I have been through since 2012, you would understand the "power of prayer."

Some of my prayers have been answered last year.....some have not been answered yet from last year.....some are being answered now for this year....

We put our cares, concerns, worries, etc. in God's hands and we keep our eyes focused on Him.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#477097 Sep 19, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry.."losing" the argument. I and others have many times, i.e., you DO listen to men just a we do, through apostolic succession the canon was determined and the gnostic texts rejected, etc. Not liking the answer doesn't mean they haven't been rebutted.
All I am doing is placing my rebuttal to the fact that men cannot define an infallible being.

This is true.....EXCEPT for your "God". That just doesn't cut it, because other men have described infallible beings throughout history. You don't believe those individuals, do you?

I didn't think so, because men told you not to.

And you think I am going in circles?

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#477098 Sep 19, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do YOU reject the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 16:13-21 regarding HIS ONE TRUE APOSTOLIC UNIVERSAL (Catholic) CHURCH
Acts 2 confirms HIS CHURCH as heiarchical, authoritative and visible with (quote) "Bishops, priests, elders and deacons". All through the New Testament EVERY ONE of the Early Churches beginning with the 1st Church at Antioch where headed by one of the Apostles (as a Bishop) meaning overseer, followed by Galacia, Ephesus, Thessalonica, Corinth, Colossus, Philippi, and on and on (ALL with Bishops, priests, elders and deacons. IN ADDITION: Why do YOU reject the teachings of Jesus in John 6:47-59 regarding HIS TRUE BODY AND TRUE BLOOD in the Eucharist.(quote)" For my body is REAL FOOD and my blood in REAL DRINK"--and without it "you CANNOT have eternal life". You Confrinting, just continue to "make up and invent" your own twisted, perverted, heretical biblical interpretation of God's Word and Church History whenever and wherever it CONVENIENTLY "fits into" your vengeance, hatred and hostile anti-catholic preaching. You do NOT speak for God--and NEVER WILL until you come to TRUE SALVATION in Jesus Christ.
You wrote..

Why do YOU reject the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 16:13-21 regarding HIS ONE TRUE APOSTOLIC UNIVERSAL (Catholic) CHURCH...

Matthew 16:13-21

reads

Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Mat 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mat 16:20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

The above scripture verses

SAYS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT HIS/JESUS' ONE TRUE APOSTOLIC UNIVERSAL (Catholic) CHURCH...


why do you attempt to propagate a lie...

NOTES from GENEVA ...TRANSLATION

commentary ...DATED 1599

Matthew 16:18
(5) And I say also unto thee, That thou art (l) Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the (m) gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

(5) That is true faith, which confesses Christ, the virtue of which is invincible.

(l) Christ spoke in the Syrian tongue, and therefore did not use this

discourse to distinguish between Petros, which signifies Peter, and

Petra, which signifies a rock, but in both places used the word Cephas:

but his meaning is what is written in Greek, in which the different word

endings distinguish between Peter, who is a piece of the building, and

Christ the Petra, that is, the rock and foundation: or else he named him

Peter because of the confession of his faith, which is the Church's as

well as his, as the old fathers witness, for so says Theophylact. That

confession which you have made, shall be the foundation of the

believers.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Pope Benedict XVI Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Ecuador, first stop on Pope tour, highlights en... 9 hr Mark 1
News United House of Prayer for All People: Bishop's... (Apr '08) Fri Married in 9,533
News James Inhofe to Pope Francis: Shut up with your... Jun 30 2all 42
News Milwaukee Art Museum's embrace of condom portra... Jun 29 The Anti- Islamist 1
News Pope's Leaked Encyclical on Climate Change Has ... Jun 26 Buybull Mullahs 6
News Global warming deniers unimpressed with pope's ... Jun 26 Earthling-1 118
News Pope urges revolution to save Earth, fix 'perve... Jun 25 Sterkfontein Swar... 30
More from around the web