Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 567,714
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
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AOL

#475409 Sep 8, 2013
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"coming w/ ALL DECEPTION" ------ANTICHRI5T



.

“HAVE A BLESSED ”

Since: Aug 08

New Year

#475411 Sep 8, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
AMEN!!! And quit attacking, judging and condemning the faith of other Christians, who "you know little or nothing" about-----especially Catholics.
I know we have differences ..But if a few of us including GIF want to say a prayer ..why can't you post dissension to another post..
Just saying .

The Amen was good ..the rest not so..imo

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#475412 Sep 8, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Common sense...the carnal sort... says no.
Faith...the Spiritual sort... says yes.
...not according to "hojo", and he seems to be the most knowledgeable pne of your fath on this forum.

You better check with him to make sure you are right.

:o)

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#475413 Sep 8, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
AMEN!!! And quit attacking, judging and condemning the faith of other Christians, who "you know little or nothing" about-----especially Catholics.
You should tell yourself that first before you go correcting what others on this forum do.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#475414 Sep 8, 2013
You are spewing more of your theological bologna....

The biblical passages regarding the flood make it clear that it was global. Genesis 7:11 states that “all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.” Genesis 1:6-7 and 2:6 tell us that the pre-flood environment was much different from that which we experience today. Based on these and other biblical descriptions, it is reasonably speculated that at one time the earth was covered by some kind of water canopy. This canopy could have been a vapor canopy, or it might have consisted of rings, somewhat like Saturn's ice rings. This, in combination with a layer of water underground, released upon the land (Genesis 2:6) would have resulted in a global flood.

The clearest verses that show the extent of the flood are Genesis 7:19-23. Regarding the waters,“They rose greatly on the earth, and ALL the high mountains under THE ENTIRE HEAVENS were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. EVERY LIVING THING that moved on the earth PERISHED—BIRDS, LIVESTOCK, WILD ANIMALS, AND ALL THE CREATURES THAT SWARM OVER THE EARTH, AND "ALL MANKIND". EVERYTHING on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. EVERY LIVING THING ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WAS WIPED OUT; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. ONLY NOAH WAS LEFT, AND THOSE WITH HIM IN THE ARK."

Tony17, you either believe the entire Bible or you believe none of the Bible. There is no pick and choose option.
Tony17 wrote:
<quoted text>When it uses the phrase "UNDER THE ENTIRE HEAVEN",we know that is a merefigure of speech and notliteral anymorethanwhereit states in scripture that Caesar ordered that "ALL THE WORLD SHOULD BE TAXED". Caesar did not rule "ALL THE WORLD". It was a mere figure of speech. Many of you read the Bible but you don't know how to "READ THE BIBLE".
Really? You are wrong....DEAD WRONG!!!

Tony17 said, quote, "When it uses the phrase "UNDER THE ENTIRE HEAVEN",we know that is a merefigure of speech and notliteral anymorethanwhereit states in scripture that Caesar ordered that "ALL THE WORLD SHOULD BE TAXED"." End quote.

Caesar was referring to the world which he governed. Caesar used the word world in a metaphoric context. The Bible describes the world in a literal context when describing the flood. Is God a liar? Was God just kidding when He said, "EVERY LIVING THING ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WAS WIPED OUT; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. ONLY NOAH WAS LEFT, AND THOSE WITH HIM IN THE ARK."

The clearest verses that show the extent of the flood are Genesis 7:19-23.Regarding the waters,“They rose greatly on the earth, and ALL the high mountains under THE ENTIRE HEAVENS were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. EVERY LIVING THING that moved on the earth PERISHED—BIRDS, LIVESTOCK, WILD ANIMALS, AND ALL THE CREATURES THAT SWARM OVER THE EARTH, AND "ALL MANKIND". EVERYTHING on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. EVERY LIVING THING ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WAS WIPED OUT; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. ONLY NOAH WAS LEFT, AND THOSE WITH HIM IN THE ARK."
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#475415 Sep 8, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
You are spewing more of your theological bologna....
The biblical passages regarding the flood make it clear that it was global. Genesis 7:11 states that “all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.” Genesis 1:6-7 and 2:6 tell us that the pre-flood environment was much different from that which we experience today. Based on these and other biblical descriptions, it is reasonably speculated that at one time the earth was covered by some kind of water canopy. This canopy could have been a vapor canopy, or it might have consisted of rings, somewhat like Saturn's ice rings. This, in combination with a layer of water underground, released upon the land (Genesis 2:6) would have resulted in a global flood.
The clearest verses that show the extent of the flood are Genesis 7:19-23. Regarding the waters,“They rose greatly on the earth, and ALL the high mountains under THE ENTIRE HEAVENS were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. EVERY LIVING THING that moved on the earth PERISHED—BIRDS, LIVESTOCK, WILD ANIMALS, AND ALL THE CREATURES THAT SWARM OVER THE EARTH, AND "ALL MANKIND". EVERYTHING on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. EVERY LIVING THING ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WAS WIPED OUT; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. ONLY NOAH WAS LEFT, AND THOSE WITH HIM IN THE ARK."
Tony17, you either believe the entire Bible or you believe none of the Bible. There is no pick and choose option.
Tony17 wrote:
<quoted text>And for only 8 people to manage the logistics that would have been required to handle the gathering and managing representatives from every species under heaven to include their food abd what have you would have been impossible for only eight people to manage. Makes absolutely no sense. And how did he get to areas such as the arctic to gather those species there? How did he get to areas like the Americas including South America to gather those species there?
There are so many species of animals and insects and birds etc in South America alone that man to this day has not even managed to collect and study or name them all.
I don't know about your houses but in my house we worship God with reason. We don't take leave of our senses when worshipping God and start trying to make things fit that logic simply won't all because there is a HUGE MISUNDERSTANDING OF SCRIPTURE.
I say again..THE FLOOD OF NOAH HAPPENED BUT IT WAS NOT GLOBAL BUT MERELY REGIONAL.
You call yourself a man of God and know nothing of God. Scripture tells us over and over and over and over again there is nothing too hard for God. When God instructed Noah to load the ark do you suppose God left Noah to his own devices. God equips those He calls and He called Noah to do a job.

Genesis 18:14, "Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son."

Jeremiah 32:17, "Ah, Lord God! It is you who have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and by your outstretched arm! Nothing is too hard for you."

Jeremiah 32:27, "Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh. Is anything too hard for me?"

Matthew 19:26, "But Jesus looked at them and said,“With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Mark 10:27, "And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible."

Luke 18:27, "But he said,“What is impossible with man is possible with God.”

You said, quote, "I don't know about your houses but in my house we worship God with reason. We don't take leave of our senses when worshiping God and start trying to make things fit that logic simply won't all because there is a HUGE MISUNDERSTANDING OF SCRIPTURE." End quote.

Read your quote. It is laughable.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#475416 Sep 8, 2013
OldJG wrote:
You are spewing more of your theological bologna....
The biblical passages regarding the flood make it clear that it was global. Genesis 7:11 states that “all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.” Genesis 1:6-7 and 2:6 tell us that the pre-flood environment was much different from that which we experience today. Based on these and other biblical descriptions, it is reasonably speculated that at one time the earth was covered by some kind of water canopy. This canopy could have been a vapor canopy, or it might have consisted of rings, somewhat like Saturn's ice rings. This, in combination with a layer of water underground, released upon the land (Genesis 2:6) would have resulted in a global flood.
The clearest verses that show the extent of the flood are Genesis 7:19-23. Regarding the waters,“They rose greatly on the earth, and ALL the high mountains under THE ENTIRE HEAVENS were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. EVERY LIVING THING that moved on the earth PERISHED—BIRDS, LIVESTOCK, WILD ANIMALS, AND ALL THE CREATURES THAT SWARM OVER THE EARTH, AND "ALL MANKIND". EVERYTHING on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. EVERY LIVING THING ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WAS WIPED OUT; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. ONLY NOAH WAS LEFT, AND THOSE WITH HIM IN THE ARK."
Tony17, you either believe the entire Bible or you believe none of the Bible. There is no pick and choose option.
<quoted text>
Really? You are wrong....DEAD WRONG!!!
Tony17 said, quote, "When it uses the phrase "UNDER THE ENTIRE HEAVEN",we know that is a merefigure of speech and notliteral anymorethanwhereit states in scripture that Caesar ordered that "ALL THE WORLD SHOULD BE TAXED"." End quote.
Caesar was referring to the world which he governed. Caesar used the word world in a metaphoric context. The Bible describes the world in a literal context when describing the flood. Is God a liar? Was God just kidding when He said, "EVERY LIVING THING ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WAS WIPED OUT; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. ONLY NOAH WAS LEFT, AND THOSE WITH HIM IN THE ARK."
The clearest verses that show the extent of the flood are Genesis 7:19-23.Regarding the waters,“They rose greatly on the earth, and ALL the high mountains under THE ENTIRE HEAVENS were covered. The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. EVERY LIVING THING that moved on the earth PERISHED—BIRDS, LIVESTOCK, WILD ANIMALS, AND ALL THE CREATURES THAT SWARM OVER THE EARTH, AND "ALL MANKIND". EVERYTHING on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. EVERY LIVING THING ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WAS WIPED OUT; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. ONLY NOAH WAS LEFT, AND THOSE WITH HIM IN THE ARK."
Exactly ..the bible is,God's,message to us .

The whole thing about the fountains beneath the,earth coming up certainly explains all the so called layers the evolutionists use to
Say we were nit created by God.
Exactly as the BIble says,

Even the Catholics,NOW believe in some other form of biogical ancestor ..
Yet,POPE PIUS DID NOT ...wonder how one can challenge another if they are infallible ...But the thing is ...it's not my belief .

I'll take the BIble any day ..Not theories that change because they are just that theories ...

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#475417 Sep 8, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus defined "HIS CHURCH" over 2000 years ago, in Matthew 16:13-21 (including referencing the Church over 30 times in the New Testament!...... Acts 2 defines Jesus' Church as heirachical, authoritative and visible with Bishops, priests, elders and deacons (beginning at Antioch),........Paul "confirms" in in I Timothy 3:15 when he calls THE CHURCH (not the bible alone) as the pillar, pinnacle and foundation of the TRUTH,.....and TRUE Church History as PROVEN it to be TRUE from the billions and billions of Catholic Christians that has "gone before us, marked with the sign of faith" (in and through) Jesus Christs One TRUE Apostolic Catholic Church. Jesus established, formed, initiate and founded ONE TRUE CHURCH (and it was Catholic). MEN (not Jesus)(beginning with Luther) built denominations,(42,000+ contradicting, inconsistent and conflicting "Protestant denominations" and multiplying (out of control) each day!......... You Ox, "continue" to have (no idea) as to what you are talking about, which is no surprise to ANY OF US CATHOLICS (Anthony, Clay, Regina, Star C, etc) because you are living on an "isolated (bible only) island" of FICTION that relies on distortion, heresy, lies and deceit in order to "exist"!!!!
I love it!!!! You are calling your pope a liar!!!!!

Each time the word "church" is used, it is from the Greek word "ekklesia"....

The NABre pope approved Catlick bible defines church as: Jesus’ church means the community that he will gather and that, like a building, will have Peter as its solid foundation. That function of Peter consists in his being witness to Jesus as the Messiah, the Son of the living God.

He did not build a denomination....which is what the Roman Catholic Church is...and its the largest in the USA...

There is no support for the false teaching that church is defined as being the Roman Catholic Church...other than your senseless babbling....

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#475418 Sep 8, 2013
Tony17 wrote:
<quoted text>Wellin my "newbie' religion Godsays that the soul can die. In this case God said it, I believe and that settles it.
That's ok too Tony. You have the right to believe anything you want.
I also have the right to share what I believe.
Touche...

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#475419 Sep 8, 2013
Tony17 wrote:
<quoted text>I have a serious problem with any church that doesn't want you to question or challenge what they teach. The RCC doesn't want anyone to question anything they teach. That should raise an alarm very loudly in the ears of anyone that believes in God.
At least they aren't allowed to burn and hang folks for it anymore(at least in most places)...that's a plus.
LTM

Sudbury, Canada

#475420 Sep 8, 2013
1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1 John 5:1-2 (KJV)

www.Christ.com


LTM

Sudbury, Canada

#475422 Sep 8, 2013
Sunday, September 08, 2013
This Evening's Meditation
C. H. Spurgeon

----------

"The exceeding greatness of His power to us-ward who believe according to the working of His mighty power, which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead."—Ephesians 1:19, 20.
N the resurrection of Christ, as in our salvation, there was put forth nothing short of a divine power. What shall we say of those who think that conversion is wrought by the free will of man, and is due to his own betterness of disposition? When we shall see the dead rise from the grave by their own power, then may we expect to see ungodly sinners of their own free will turning to Christ. It is not the word preached, nor the word read in itself; all quickening power proceeds from the Holy Ghost. This power was irresistible. All the soldiers and the high priests could not keep the body of Christ in the tomb; Death himself could not hold Jesus in his bonds: even thus irresistible is the power put forth in the believer when he is raised to newness of life. No sin, no corruption, no devils in hell nor sinners upon earth, can stay the hand of God's grace when it intends to convert a man. If God omnipotently says, "Thou shalt," man shall not say, "I will not." Observe that the power which raised Christ from the dead was glorious. It reflected honour upon God and wrought dismay in the hosts of evil. So there is great glory to God in the conversion of every sinner. It was everlasting power. "Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over Him." So we, being raised from the dead, go not back to our dead works nor to our old corruptions, but we live unto God. "Because He lives we live also." "For we are dead, and our life is hid with Christ in God." "Like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life." Lastly, in the text mark the union of the new life to Jesus. The same power which raised the Head works life in the members. What a blessing to be quickened together with Christ!
Human Being

Oberlin, LA

#475423 Sep 8, 2013
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>Not that too many prots may have gone to EWTN to view the Pope's prayer vigil for Peace in Syria,and the world.But He and his Cardinals were not sensitive to the fact that non-Catholics might be turned off to the recitation of the Rosary.There was a huge icon of the Madonna,and the Pope preceded to lead the whole audience into hearing and reciting prayers to Mary,and Salve Regina was sung.The Catholic view must be that when you pray for peace,you should pray only to Mary,as she is the mediator between man and Jesus?
Robert you may be convinced that Roman Catholicism is the true Church,but I can tell you that even if the RCC started a week after the Apostles were sent out,that would have been a controversy from day one.Here are a couple of statements by two leading Jewish figures from Spain in the 1100s.Continued:
Pad

I did not get to watch the EWTN program. I no longer have live tv, but get my information on the internet.

I was aware of yesterday, that the Pope called for prayer and fasting, and today, there was a sheet with a prayer for peace in Syria, which was handed out, in the parish. Yet I was dismayed, that so few picked them up....

I do not know the events which are to come. All I can think of is woe for the U.S. A tyranny of ignorance and greed moving us slowly to the edge.
Human Being

Oberlin, LA

#475425 Sep 8, 2013
Pad wrote:
To Robert F. two renouned Jews who lived in Spain in the 1100s,a poet and a Rabbi who was also a philosopher.
The source is "History of the Jews i Christian Spain."By Yitzhak Baer. SEIR is a word the Jews used for Catholics(Christians).
Here is a poem by JUDAH HALEVI 1108 after many Jews were killed including his nephew.
"Where shall the small lock and the diasora in Spain seek refuge,when you are no more?(those Jews and nephew Solomon murdered)
Who will carry the lambs at his bosom and who will unshackle the fetters of the imprisoned?
May dew never fall upon you, fields of Seir(Catholics)!
May God send a down pour of wrath, upon the daughter of Edom(Catholics)!(also Spain region in prophecy)
May He visit upon her, in retribution,bereavement and widowhood;
May He strike down her population along with her idolatrous IMAGES!"
In 1129 A Rabbi who was a leading patriarch of Spanish Jewry and a philospher/Scientist said this about the Catholics in Palestine.Pages 66-67.
"They defiled the Temple site, established upon it a house of thier worship,set up therein the sculptured IMAGES of their folly, abolished the daily sacrifice in that they prevented the Jews from offering prayer on the Temple site......
"For since the day they gained control over the Sanctuary, they have forbidden Jews to set foot therein, and not a single Jew is to be found in Jerusalem today."
Talk about political clout the Roman Church exercised back in the 1100s,and throughout their history.There are whole libraries of the persections,and abuse of the Jewish peoples,also Moslems and non-Catholic Christians by the RCs and Orthodox.If the books were not written by Protestants,they were written by Jews who knew those times existed by the records they kept which were well detailed.
Pad

Peace

I am by no means a historian, and it is very difficult for me understand, and place myself in Spain during the 1100's. I do not know the motive of the writer as well.

I know little, except that Jews had a "Golden Age" in Spain around 700AD, and the first attack/pogrom on Jews in Europe happened around 1100 in Spain, by Islamic peoples.

I believe I have a relative, traceable to the pogroms in Germany, that escaped to Poland in the 1300's.

It is easy to take one side or another, depending on bias when looking back in history. Perhaps more relevant are situations and events going on today.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#475426 Sep 8, 2013
Tony17 wrote:
<quoted text>And for only 8 people to manage the logistics that would have been required to handle the gathering and managing representatives from every species under heaven to include their food abd what have you would have been impossible for only eight people to manage. Makes absolutely no sense. And how did he get to areas such as the arctic to gather those species there? How did he get to areas like the Americas including South America to gather those species there?
There are so many species of animals and insects and birds etc in South America alone that man to this day has not even managed to collect and study or name them all.
I don't know about your houses but in my house we worship God with reason. We don't take leave of our senses when worshipping God and start trying to make things fit that logic simply won't all because there is a HUGE MISUNDERSTANDING OF SCRIPTURE.
I say again..THE FLOOD OF NOAH HAPPENED BUT IT WAS NOT GLOBAL BUT MERELY REGIONAL.
You said, quote, "I say again..THE FLOOD OF NOAH HAPPENED BUT IT WAS NOT GLOBAL BUT MERELY REGIONAL." End quote.

If not global then what region? Do you have a clue?
Pad

Rockford, IL

#475427 Sep 8, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
"I beleive all texts are "God" inspired."
Show me a text of some sort by "God" specifically stating that God says that all texts are inspired.
See how that works?
Texts do not interpret themselves. People have to do that.
Truth is God inspired,but not all texts that are of religious content are inspired by the Creator.The truth that is interwoven in those texts of course are confirmations of God's Truth,but if you read through the whole text you will find that the contradictions to the real truth of God,or a twist of such is not from God.

We can respect the many writings of people who endeavored to prove God and His existance,and so on,but not all that they say is solid truth.We have to be aware of the Truth,and ponder it in our hearts and minds in order to be able to detect the non-truths we may find in any given text.
Pad

Rockford, IL

#475428 Sep 8, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
Pad
Peace
I am by no means a historian, and it is very difficult for me understand, and place myself in Spain during the 1100's. I do not know the motive of the writer as well.
I know little, except that Jews had a "Golden Age" in Spain around 700AD, and the first attack/pogrom on Jews in Europe happened around 1100 in Spain, by Islamic peoples.
I believe I have a relative, traceable to the pogroms in Germany, that escaped to Poland in the 1300's.
It is easy to take one side or another, depending on bias when looking back in history. Perhaps more relevant are situations and events going on today.
A History of the Jews in Christian Spain, Yitzhak Baer.

612 In Spain: "The Jews were required to give up their christian slaves and servants as well as their Christian tenants, together with the land the latter held in lease, and to transfer them to Christian congrol or set them free, without making their freedom conditional upon their observance of Judaism. A JEW who converted a Christian to Judaism was to suffer death and confiscation of property."

((589)) "The Visigothic King changed his Arian faith for the Roman Catholic and proceeded to oppress the JEWS in the manner practiced throughout the Catholic world. A few years earlier, in 576, in the city of Avernum(Clermont) in the neighboring Frankish kingdom, the local bishop, following a street battle between jews and Christians, compelled the Jews to choose between maptism and expulsion. A little later, in 582 the Merovingian King,Chilperic, ordered all the Jews of his realm to be baptized.
"In 628 Byzantine emperor Heraclius, exercised jurisdiction over certain areas of Spain,.........an order to convert by FORCE all the Jews throughout the provinces of his Empire......."

In 633, Toledo Spain, the bishops council decreed that Jews shall not be converted by force, but that those already converted must remain Christians and must be prevented from practicing the Jewish faith. Their children shall be taken from them and brought up as Christians. Converts as well as Jews shall be excluded from public office.These laws struck not only the Jews but also the converts, who were suspected of remaining faithful to the religion of their fathers.
"Five years later from 633, the same church council forbade all non-Catholics to reside in the country.

"In surrounding areas around Toledo EVERY JEW was required to take an oath, accofding to a fixed formula, that he had given up Jewish law and practice. The penalty for relapsing varied, accoding to the seriousness of the offense, from religious penance to flogging, loss of a limb, confiscation of property, or BURNING AT THE STAKE."

In 681 King Ervig decreed anti-Jewish legislation that read as thus:"Severe penalties are ordered for the evasion of baptism, the observance of Jewish precepts, religious instruction, and the distribution of tracts defending the Jewish faith and disparaging the Christian."

In 681 All Jews who held any type of public office were removed,especially from the stewardship of large estates, an to take measures against the nobles who protected their Jewish retainers from clerical supervision.Jews were forbidden under the realm to enter seaports, lest tehy escape overseas, and to engage in business transactions with Christians."

In 711 the Arabs invaded Spain and in a victorious campaign of only a few years conquered the entire country.The conquerors settled Jews in the cities of Cordova,Grnada,Seville,Elvira and Toledo,turning their citadels over to Jews and Arabs.

912-961,Jews were able to regroup as it were,and establish communities throughout Spain,although the North was mostly strongly Christian,the religious clergy of the RCC were ordered from Rome to utilize the Jews as linguists to the Arab culture that was permeated in the South of Spain.The Jews during this period were able to purify their own faith with reformers and so on."
LTM

Sudbury, Canada

#475429 Sep 8, 2013
Read the Scripture: 2 Corinthians 3:12-18
2 Corinthians 3:12-18
12Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
New International VersionNow the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit (2 Corinthians 3:17-18).
The apostle reminds the Corinthians immediately that the Lord is in their hearts, in their human spirits. Their hope of freedom comes from that great fact, for the one who is within them is God Himself. Paul identifies Him:“the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.”
Freedom is being out in the open, having boldness, having nothing to hide. Those who are free are those who do not have any reputation to defend, no image to hide behind, nothing to preserve about themselves. They can be themselves. Everywhere today people are longing for this type of freedom. People want to “be themselves.”“I've got to be me,” we hear, and there is nothing wrong with that. God wants you to be you, too. The only thing wrong is the way we do it. We are being taught in the world that the way to be “me” is to think about “my” advantage,“my” efforts, and to defend and demand them.
The Word of God teaches us it is quite another process. Being yourself and having freedom does not mean denying the potential for all the evil that is possible in your heart and in your life, because you have another basis on which you receive God's acceptance and approval. His acceptance and approval are gifts to you. The faith He gives continually accepts anew the gift of righteousness of already being pleasing to God, and, on that basis, you serve Him out of a heart of gratitude for what you already have. You do not have to earn His favor, and your performance is not going to affect it. When you start looking at the one who is doing this in your life, the Lord Jesus, and beholding Him with all your veils taken away so you are not afraid to look at your own evil capacity, then a wonderful thing happens. Without even knowing that you are doing it, just by rejoicing in what you have and serving the Lord who gave it to you, you suddenly discover--and other people will discover--that you are becoming a loving person. And love is the fulfilling of the Law; the very demand that God made in the Law that you tried so hard to fulfill by your self-effort will be fulfilled without your even realizing it when you begin to love out of the grace and forgiveness of God.
cont
LTM

Sudbury, Canada

#475430 Sep 8, 2013
cont
It is a process of growth. It does not happen in one great transformation when you are suddenly sanctified, filled with the Spirit, or baptized. It happens as you keep your eyes on the glory of the Lord and not on the face of Moses, not on self-effort but on what He is already giving you. When you do, you suddenly discover the Spirit of God has been at work making gradual changes. You are becoming a loving person, easier to live with, more attractive, more compelling. Your life is deepening as it is losing its shallowness; you are more understanding of things. That is the work of the Spirit. Notice what he says: this “comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.” It is not you who does it; it is He.
Lord, thank You for the promise that as I look at You, I become like You.
Life Application: Are we truly free to admit and look at our nature and capacity for evil? Do we wrongly rely on self-effort to overcome it? How does a growing freedom in Christ change us?
Pad

Rockford, IL

#475431 Sep 8, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
Pad
Peace
I am by no means a historian, and it is very difficult for me understand, and place myself in Spain during the 1100's. I do not know the motive of the writer as well.
I know little, except that Jews had a "Golden Age" in Spain around 700AD, and the first attack/pogrom on Jews in Europe happened around 1100 in Spain, by Islamic peoples.
I believe I have a relative, traceable to the pogroms in Germany, that escaped to Poland in the 1300's.
It is easy to take one side or another, depending on bias when looking back in history. Perhaps more relevant are situations and events going on today.
I believe that Yitzhak Baer wanted to showover a period of 10 centuries and under a severe challenge to exist,his Jewish people suvived,but he relates that the Jewish people alwayssffered wondering why God had dealt with them so strongly,like giving them life,and taking it away with callousness.

He mentioned
that the Jews suffered more under the Germanic Catholics,than they did in Spain.Jews were more willing to be martyred for their faith in Germany,than in Spain,he stated.

Pages 14 and 15 of this book.This s a statement of fact that should make Catholics think:
Yitzhak Baer"In the fourth century Christianity entered into an alliance with the Roman Empire, for all the latter;s iniquities,in anticipation of the day when it would possess enough strength to inculcate the pirit of righteousness and divine jutice into the institution of the Gentiles. Fortified with this outlook, the Christian Church rose to a dominant positon among the powers of the earth, whereas Israel remained alone, fulfilling the function of the "city of God" besiegd by the icked surviving only by dint of its faith in God who can b trusted to fulfil His promise.
The Christian Church, united with the Romn Empire(in the 4th Century), wiped out pagan worship,bt it could not ad dared not destroy Israel completely
"SLAY them not,lest my people forget; make them wander to and fro by Thy power." (Psalms 59:12)"
"The Roman emperors relegated the dispersed Jews to the position of second-class citizens with limited rights.They enacted laws to prevent the spread of Judaism.They oppressed the Jewish community in Palestine and abolished the official authoriy of the Patriarch. Catholicism(Christianity),thus in doctrine andin deed, imposed upon Israel the sentence of Galut(dispersion)."Pages 14-15.

But let me back up to this statement by Baer"Until the Roman Empire turned Christian, the position of Christianity with respect to the Empire and pagan society was similar to the position of Israel among the nations. Christianity succeeded in converting the Roman Empire, not only because it discarded the nation and ritual elements of the teachings of the rabbis,but also because it presented the mythic elements common to both Judaism and Christianity in SIMPLE, RATONAL t e r m s, and related them to existing social and POLTICAL CONDITIONS.FROM THE TIME te t w o religions separated and until the end of the Middle Ages the rivalry between Judaism and Christianity did not revolve around fundamental differences of faith and ethics,but took the form of a contest between two divergent conceptions of human history and two conflicting approaches to the problem of salvation, each seeking to gain ascendancy over the other.Without a knowledgeof these theoretical condiserations it is impossible to understand the harsh fate which befell our people during the Middle Ages." Page 14.{A History of the Jews in Christian Spain}.

In the year 418 The Bishop of Mayorca, wrote a letter to the Caholics of that place and on the Island of Minorca,that allJews foun on the island shall be forced to become Christians, but first they torched the existing Synagogue.The Jews reminded themselves of the Maccabean martyrs, both men and women fought to their deaths with deeds of herosim and self-sacrifice. Still 540 Jews were forced to convert or die.

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