Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 654303 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Just Sayin

Nashville, TN

#473685 Aug 28, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
AWWWW ... now don't feign modesty at this late date.
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's cut to the chase and tell you what you desire to be told.
The one and only god loves you and your rituals and your beliefs and will turn his back on all others. And for being so disrespectful to you who tells the one and only truth, they will have to spend eternity in hell.
THERE ... are you satisfied NOW???
I have never believed that God loves only me and no one else. You keep accusing everyone of this thing and it is a total lie. The only reason I can think for you to continue to do this is out of your delight in disgusting yourself.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#473686 Aug 28, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
COUNCIL OF CONSTANTINOPLE (1727)
In an article concerning the Eucharist in an exposition of faith by a council held at Constantinople in 1727 we find a re-affirmation that the word "TRANSUBSTANTIATION" is "the most fitting statement of this mystery" and the "most accurately significant declaration of this change" in the elements. This Council reads --
"It is right to believe and confess that the most mystic and all-holy rite and Eucharist of the holy Liturgy and BLOODLESS SACRIFICE, which is for a memorial of Christ our God voluntarily sacrificed on our behalf, is celebrated in the following way. Leavened bread is offered and wine together with warm water is placed in the holy cup, and they are supernaturally changed, the bread into that life-giving body of the Lord and the wine into His precious blood, by the all-holy Spirit by means of the prayer and invocation of the priest which depends on the power of the words of the Lord.
edited

the Spirit who compiled the holy liturgies explained and handed down, and as this tradition of their divine teaching has come to us and to the Holy Church of Christ, and as also is clearly shown by the example of the Lord Himself, who first prayed and then commanded His Apostles,'Do this for My memorial.'
"Therefore we acknowledge that at the invocation of the priest that ineffable mystery is consecrated, and the living and with-God-united body itself of our Savior and His blood itself are really and substantially present, and that the whole without being in any way impaired is eaten by those who partake and is BLOODLESSLY SACRIFICED. And we believe without any doubt that in the reception and communion of this, even though it be in ONE KIND ONLY, the WHOLE AND COMPLETE CHRIST is present; nevertheless according to the ancient tradition which has prevailed in the Catholic Church we have received that Communion is made by all the faithful, both clergy and laity, individually in both kinds, and not the laity in one kind and the priests in both, as is done in the innovation which the Latins have wrongly made.
"As an explanatory and MOST ACCURATELY SIGNIFICANT DECLARATION OF THIS CHANGE of the bread and the wine into the body of the Lord itself and His blood the faithful ought to acknowledge and receive the word TRANSUBSTANTIATION, which the Catholic Church as a whole has used and receives as the MOST FITTING STATEMENT OF THIS MYSTERY. Moreover they ought to reject the use of unleavened bread as an innovation of late date, and to receive the holy rite in leavened bread, as had been the custom from the first in the Catholic Church of Christ." (Stone, page 182-184)
What this Council shows us is the Eastern Orthodox had differences with the Latins (Catholics) during this period in practice (Communion under both kinds, leavened bread) and the exact moment of consecration, but had no difficulty in affirming the reality of the change by using the term TRANSUBSTANTIATION as the "MOST FITTING STATEMENT OF THIS MYSTERY" and "MOST ACCURATELY SIGNIFICANT DECLARATION OF THIS CHANGE."
http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/num31.htm More on Eastern Orthodox councils here.
==========
Did you not know that during the period of of the Synod of Jersulem in 1672, the the Church often used Catholic arguments in our debates with the Protestants. The problem with the Confession of Dositheus as taken from the Acts of the Synod of Jerusulem in 1672 is that it was self-consciously adopting Catholic terminology to combat the Protestant theology propounded by Patriarch Cyril
ON TRANSUBSTANTIATION, IT SHOULD BE CLEAR ENOUGH THAT THE WAY DOSITHEUS USES THE TERM METOUSIOSIS IS IN LINE WITH THE ORTHODOX FAITH, NAMELY, HE DENIES THAT THE TERM IN ANY WAY TEACHES BY WHAT MECHANISM THE TRANSFORMATION TAKES PLACE, ONLY REMARKING THAT IT IS A TRUE CHANGE OF BEING
Time to bring ICXC NIKA back cause its clearly not working.

Since: Sep 09

Surrey, Canada

#473687 Aug 28, 2013
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>You just dont have a clue do you?
According to you does the one and only god Jehovah love only you???

Since: Sep 09

Surrey, Canada

#473688 Aug 28, 2013
Just Sayin wrote:
<quoted text>
I think it would help me out a lot if you could just state what "all absolute truths" you believe in.
"I am a heaven HOG!" That is the truth of most all religious believers ... including YOU.

"Heaven for ME ... hell for others."

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#473689 Aug 28, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Five posts that didn't cite one official Orthodox teaching. Five posts that cited no author. Five posts that gave no link. Five posts that contradict what official Orthodoxy delcares. Paste the link hermi. Show us where the Orthodox teach Consubstantiation. Show us where the doctrine of transubstantiation is the result of the Church deciding it was a physical change as opposed to symbolism.
==

You must have played a lot of dodge ball in your time but in here you get hit in the head a lot. Take a walk, I provided more than enough info.
Just Sayin

Nashville, TN

#473690 Aug 28, 2013
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>Anthony, be pompous all you want,the truth is that in the BIBLE there is no room for the use of images.And if you want to quote from the Old Covenant about two angels constructed unto the ARC,or maybe some built into the original Temple,that has nothing to do with God's command to not make images for the use of worship toward Him.
The New Testament is quite clear about how we should worship the Father,the Sona dn the Holy Spirit,no statue representing JESUS is sufficient.
No I would not be involved in that spectacle,and yes that statue was St.Teresa of Lizieux. The preacher made a point however,and he was not doing anything that the Jews of old would not have done when it came to being rid of idols and statues of gods.goddesses and the like.
Just because it does not prick your conscience as to the use of statues,carved or made of clay,stone,and so on, does notmean that the true conscience of worship in regards to the God of Israel rejects your statues.There are close to a million+Messianic Jews in this world today,and everyone I have ever met strongly oppose the use of statues,and want nothing to do with RC worship.Maybe some traditional Jews may think your Mass is similar to their worship,but that does not mean they would be willing to incorporate statues and so on into their services.I have never met a Jew who thought it was ok for anyone who worships the true God to erect shrines with statues,haul the statues around on pedestals,and kneel before them,putting crowns on the heads,and flowers around them as though they are the person they prepresent.
We don't have a clue huh?I quake at your ignorance of the whole matter.You are the one who along ewith every RC remains steadfastly attached to those images of veneration,no matter what the God of Israel may think of them.
You should know, since you were raised Catholic, that it is not the image that is venerated, it is the person whom the image represents. This should not be a difficult thing to understand.

Don't you have pictures of your loved ones in your wallet or on your walls? Do you mistake the photo for your wife? Do you mistake the photo for God? When you look at the photo of your wife are you worshipping her? When you visit your parents' graves and talk to them, are you worshipping their grave markers?

Since: Sep 09

Surrey, Canada

#473691 Aug 28, 2013
They absolutely INSIST on ignoring the theology that Jehovah created EVIL.

It does not fit their desires, so that part of theology is totally ignored.

Deception is the name of the religious game ... PLAIN and SIMPLE!
chuck

Dublin, OH

#473692 Aug 28, 2013
Seraphima wrote:
<quoted text>Regina told me over the telephone a number of time that she knows and has changed those icons.And you know darn well I cant prove it cause your not going to admit it.Lying is a sin...I don't pray for you total destruction or annihilation.I don't pray for you at all....you think but repeat that that it would cause a reaction from me.lol Well your wrong...a lot has changed IN ME since we were once friends.I see that your still the same.It is you that harbors those negative feelings towards me..and trust me you of all people would be the last one in my fantasies...lol....
Lying is nothing new for Regina. She stated to me that she has never cussed at anyone on this forum. I produced the post and she went into hiding for a few months and now she's back. Regina is your typical catholic. Religious, goes to church, tries to be the best she can be, follows church rituals and rules but at the end of the day, she has no born again experience.....none
Regina

Bloomfield, NJ

#473693 Aug 28, 2013
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>Do you presume to know what Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit can and cant do.Do you presume to know the exact guidelines and limits by which Christ will save us. Do you open and close the highways by which the Holy Spirit travels. Does your Pope? Does your Church? Christ so surpasses us and our Church's knowledge of Him that if we truly understand Who Christ is and what He did and does for us, we should become in relationship and union with Him and quit lecturing people about THEIR church.
Why so testy, Nick?? All I did was post an explanation of the teaching of the Orthodox Church. Just because you don't agree with your church doesn't mean you should mislead others with your personal opinions. Perhaps it would be best if you prefaced your remarks with a disclaimer of some sort whenever you're offering your opinion as opposed to actual Orthodox teaching.

No, this article does not go into depth on salvation outside the Orthodox Church, but that doesn't mean that I'm not fairly well acquainted with at least some of Orthodox teaching and the theology behind it. Also, a lot of what you think is in direct opposition to the Church is actually very close if not exactly the same theology. After all, we were the same church until you broke away in 1054. From what I've been reading, there's a lot of misinformation about the Church in Orthodox circles. They know very little about Catholicism, yet claim just the opposite. I don't pretend to be an expert on the Orthodox Church, but I do recognize when you state something they don't subscribe to, such as your denial of the Real Presence and that it's not the true church.

So...sorry to contradict you, but the Orthodox Church does teach that under ordinary circumstances there is no salvation outside the Orthodox Church. The way it's put is that she knows where salvation is, she does not know where it is not. She knows where the Church is, she does not know where it is not. Other Christians do not have the fullness of the truth, and may or may not find salvation apart from Orthodoxy. Sounds familiar, huh?
Pad

Rockford, IL

#473694 Aug 28, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
Pad
Peace
If God is present through the Holy Spirit and in the Revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ, then there is no reason not to have symbols upon which to reflect, and expand one's knowledge, increase one's faith and commitment to God through prayer.
The question of "must have symbols", is negligible since all of Creation can be a reflection, and all its parts of the glory of God....
Peace
Sorry I did not see your post sooner.You respond with respect and I appreciate that.May the Lord bless you and your family.

I see your point and I know that there is something mystical about beautiful objects and so on.We view great sculptures,and admire the sculptor who fashioned the image.The world is full of fantastic art and whatever.I do not argue that, what men do to enhance things and bring originality and whatever. The fact that the RCC has done this for centuries is so taken for granted,that it seems totally ridiculous to even bring up the use of statues and pictures in regards to Catholic life in general.

But it remains a matter of conscience as to what is understood from the 10 Commandments,and how the Lord instructed His people not to make any image of celestial beings,either above the earth,from the heavens or below the earth.Idols yes are gods and goddesses.But the making of those things and using them in worship remained a Commandment for the Jews,because the LORD abhorred all of it.He knew that people would stare at those things which were created by men,and would connect with them.

You cannot tell me that many RCs do not connect with certain statues and venerate them.I have heard all my life of people who kept a certain statue as a protective element,and loved to pray before it,as they saw the person the statue represented.That is not what God intended,as the Scriptures denounce the use of images altogether.

When I was growing up,my grandmother had some statues that were so life-like,and she would spend hours praying before them,lighting candles,saying the rosary. My grandfather use to get angry with her at times and called her st.annie,he cheated on her,she supposedly never knew it.My grandmother for years went to mass everyday.All of her sons and daughters went weekly to mass,but lived quite freely often getting drunk and committing all kinds of sin.Yes I am a sinner.But what I am saying is that my grandmother rejected reading the Scriptures only that which was mentioned in the Missal.She thought that the Bible would corrupt her.

When I became a n evangelical she was my strongest critic,and I appreciate that,but she rejected the Word so strongly because I did not venerate what she venerated,it was obvious that she held so strongly to those statues and those practices of the Roman Church,it divided us ,even though we made it a point to love each other regardless of church affiliation.

Aside from all that,I see that Christians who pray and seek the Lord,and worship Him through the Word,and without the embellishments of statuary and so on have a freedom and an insight that I rarely see in Catholics.
Just Sayin

Nashville, TN

#473695 Aug 28, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
I asked for a specific statement by "God" or as you now state, the HS.
Please post this passage.
If you don't have one or do not know, just admit it honestly.
Come on.
"The Holy Spirit guided the Church in determining the canon of Scripture." is not in the Bible. What are you Bible-alone now?

Do you want me to ask God for a note in which He confesses that He guided the Church, complete with His signature, so I can bring it to you for you to examine? And so what if I did, you wouldn't believe it anyway.

Faith is a gift.

It's been said that there are 3 types of people:
1) One who has sought God and has found Him
2) One who is seeking Him and hasn't found Him yet
3) One who doesn't seek Him at all.
Just Sayin

Nashville, TN

#473696 Aug 28, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
People chose and continue to choose on what to believe.
Yes - Judaism does not believe Jesus was the "Messiah".
Whether or not he was an actual "messiah" has never been determined.
IMO - Jesus never actually stated he was any religion's messiah, but did state much about how the Spirit lives after we die, and his message should be accepted. Some folks took it to the extrememand consider him to be that "Messiah" that has yet to arrive for Judaism.
<quoted text>
Then post the proof you have to prove that, instead of something created in the past five years.
A YouTube video is not proof, but only an opinion.
Also, books = opinion
You aren't proving anythign JS....c'mon, stop trying to appease men.
You really want me to post an entire book on topix?

You are just playing games, is all. If you were really interested in the proof, you would have ordered the book by now.

Instead, you swipe it all away with the back of your hand and claim no proof has been offered. Very insincere.
Regina

Bloomfield, NJ

#473697 Aug 28, 2013
Seraphima wrote:
<quoted text>Regina told me over the telephone a number of time that she knows and has changed those icons.And you know darn well I cant prove it cause your not going to admit it.Lying is a sin...I don't pray for you total destruction or annihilation.I don't pray for you at all....you think but repeat that that it would cause a reaction from me.lol Well your wrong...a lot has changed IN ME since we were once friends.I see that your still the same.It is you that harbors those negative feelings towards me..and trust me you of all people would be the last one in my fantasies...lol....
Yes, I once told you exactly what I posted here today...anyone can change them, just as we've been explaining to you. It's no big deal, not sure why you're making it one, and no idea why you insist that I'm the one who's doing it. I told you I very seldom use them anymore. If they bother you so much, maybe you shouldn't come here. Lots of people lurking on these boards, Sera. You admitted doing it for months. Now take your hate somewhere else, it's ugly and tiresome.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#473698 Aug 28, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
I think you are just making up things now
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
Making things up is the basis of the religious game.
...and you are right there on top, doing just that. And you think you are an Atheist because you do?
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
If you don't like one theology you go to another, and if that doesn't prove the test of personal gain ... you make up your own theology.
Sounds like you are getting pretty good at it.
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
38,000 denominations of Christianity later ... and theologians are still busy writing and re-writing to suit their own agendas.
Imagine that, just like you.
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
The gods are learning at last to do what they are told by the theologians. It's about time too. It took those gods a long time to learn that what humans dictated the gods MUST believe ... is true.
:)
How is it that you know what gods can or cannot do? Did you get some sort of "decoder ring", whereas no one else did?
Dust Storm

Minneapolis, MN

#473699 Aug 28, 2013
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>
First of all the 1727 Council of Constantinople was local- not spokesman for position of the Orthodox Church.
SOMEHOW DUST STORM LEFT OUT:
LOL...IThis Orthodox Confession was drawn up in Russian by Peter Mogila, the Metropolitan of Kieff (among other theologians) and was translated into Greek. It was then approved by the following Orthodox councils and Patriarchs --

(1) the Council of Jassy in 1642

(2) the Patriarchs of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem in 1643 (all the Eastern Sees)

(3) and the Council of Jerusalem in 1672

The Orthodox Confession of 1640 reads --

"Christ is now in heaven only and not on earth after that manner of the flesh wherein He bore it and lived in it when He was on earth; but after the sacramental manner, whereby He is present in the Holy Eucharist, the same Son of God, God and Man, is also on earth by way of TRANSUBSTANTIATION [kata metousiosis]. For the SUBSTANCE of the bread is changed into the SUBSTANCE of His holy body, and the SUBSTANCE of the wine into the SUBSTANCE of His precious blood.

"Where it is fitting to WORSHIP and ADORE the Holy Eucharist even as our Savior Jesus Himself.

"The priest must know that at the moment when he consecrates the gifts the SUBSTANCE itself of the bread and the SUBSTANCE of the wine are changed into the SUBSTANCE of the real body and blood of Christ through the operation of the Holy Ghost, whom the priest invokes at that time, consecrating this mystery by praying and saying,

'Send down Thy Holy Ghost on us and on these gifts set before Thee, and make this bread the precious body of Thy Christ and that which is in this cup the precious blood of Thy Christ, changing them by Thy Holy Ghost.'

Read slowly I know its hard for you to think. lol

"For immediately after these words the TRANSUBSTANTIATION [metousiosis] takes place, and that bread is changed into the real body of Christ, and the wine into His real blood. ONLY THE SPECIES WHICH ARE SEEN REMAIN, and this by the ordinance of God, first, that we may not see the body of Christ, but may believe that it is there....

"The honor which it is fitting to give to these awful mysteries is of such a kind as that which is given to Christ Himself....This mystery is also OFFERED AS A SACRIFICE on behalf of all orthodox Christians, both the living AND THOSE WHO SLEEP in hope of a resurrection to eternal life; and the SACRIFICE shall never fail until the last Judgment.

"The fruits of this mystery are these: first, the commemoration of the sinless passion and death of Christ....secondly....this mystery is a PROPITIATION AND ATONEMENT WITH GOD FOR OUR SINS BOTH OF THE LIVING AND OF THE DEAD....thirdly....that each Christian who shall frequent this SACRIFICE and partake of this mystery may be delivered by means of it from the temptation and danger of the devil." (Stone, page 177f)

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#473700 Aug 28, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>
You are on the wrong page...I never have questioned the teaching that God is the Holy Trinity...the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit..
Which, as stated, is contradictory.....If Christ is the Son of God, and if Emmanuel means "God with us", that is saying Christ is God????!!!!!
Try this: Since there is only one God....who is God in "God with us"????
I give up.

You explain what "God with us" means in that verse.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#473701 Aug 28, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
What's first-hand about the account of Thomas??? That is simply another regurgitated myth that travelled through 2000 years plus of morphing ... that just happens to suit YOUR gnostic religious tastes for fiction.
In the least, Thomas was a first gen-Apostle, thus it can be considered a first-hand account.

Now if we were to compare that text with something by "Paul", who was a third generation disciple, you can now understand the difference between the two accounts.

June - all it does is require you to take some time researching.
Regina

Bloomfield, NJ

#473702 Aug 28, 2013
chuck wrote:
<quoted text>
Lying is nothing new for Regina. She stated to me that she has never cussed at anyone on this forum. I produced the post and she went into hiding for a few months and now she's back. Regina is your typical catholic. Religious, goes to church, tries to be the best she can be, follows church rituals and rules but at the end of the day, she has no born again experience.....none
Oh, Charles, stop being such a baby. I didn't cuss at anyone and you never proved I did...because I didn't. See how that works? Liar.

But I'll bet you call me or another Catholic a name any minute now. It's what you do, it's how you operate. You see, that was my original point which you so deceptively deflected by turning the attention on me and accusing me of cursing at someone. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
Dust Storm

Minneapolis, MN

#473703 Aug 28, 2013
Yeah, but but they arent me the great Herme the voice of the entire Orthodox church and my wife who became a schismatic 3 years ago and posts trash because she is all about forgiving and I the Great Herm am the voice of God and...

NO PROTESTANTS have any Grace and MUST be baptized thrice in a Herme approved church and those other Orthodox who disagree well pffffhhhh they are not really Orthodox. lol

What a phony loser you are. You are a joke and incapable of telling truth. You are nothing but a vile hillbilly who likes to argue from ignorance and doublespeak. I do think you are a Protestant who likes to mold Orthodoxy to your own opinions, but you are an idiot and a proeven liar not worth arguing with.
Pad

Rockford, IL

#473704 Aug 28, 2013
Just Sayin wrote:
<quoted text>
You should know, since you were raised Catholic, that it is not the image that is venerated, it is the person whom the image represents. This should not be a difficult thing to understand.
Don't you have pictures of your loved ones in your wallet or on your walls? Do you mistake the photo for your wife? Do you mistake the photo for God? When you look at the photo of your wife are you worshipping her? When you visit your parents' graves and talk to them, are you worshipping their grave markers?
Human reasoning is fine if that is a far as you want to go Just Sayin,but the truth is I know that a statue is not a person.But Catholics form attachments to statues,especially if they pray before them,reciting rosaries and praying rote prayers before them,candles and all.Not many Catholics do such,but I have seen those that did.

As I told Human Being the whole matter of argument with a Catholic concerning the use of statues is rather redundant,because you are all so protective of them.YET,the LORD God of Israel abhorred them and despised seeing them especially amongst His people.

Idols I know are gods and goddesses,but really a statue of the Sacred Heart of Christ represents the GOD and Savior of us all Jesus Christ.You do not see anything wrong with that,but GOD commanded in the first commandment,and the 2nd NOT to made such things.READ the Ten Commandments in the King James. You have to realize that such a command is embedded in the conscience of those who believed and now believe as well.I take the Word seriously,and reject human reasoning when God says"You will not have any gods before me"And He elaborates,I find Catholic reasoning for statues to be quite unique in that it so resembles the paganism of Rome,and it rejects God's commandment to the Hebrews(Jews).

Think about this,no matter what your reasoning to have statues,God said He abhors and despises them,do not use them,or make them,or set them up in your presence.The COMMAND demands Obedience,so if we cannot obey God no matter what our reasoning,than we already are found disobedient and breaking His Law.

Adam and Eve saw that fruit,it was no doubt very sumptuious to them,they wanted it so bad,knowing God told them it was forbidden.The SERPENT reasoned with Eve,told her that the fruit was good,it would meet her desires,and it was good for her,both evil and good would be known to her as well.

Adam and Eve reasoned within themselves,and their reasoning seemed practical and wonderful,but they disobeyed the Father,He told them later.But it is no different for us,a statue in and of itself would seem so harmless,it cannot hear or speak.It is beauritful to look at,but GOD,BUT G O D, told His people never to make them.How is it okay for the followers of Jesus His Son to make millions of such things,adorn their churches with them and venerate them with great pomp,rituals,songs,canticles and so on? That escapes my reasoning as a believer."
as for me and my household we will serve the Lord." I quote this to confirm that we will not have such things in our midst,nor will we worship where they are mounted on the main altars of churches.

It is a powerful thing to serve the Lord,dear ones,and often we are required not to go along with the flow,even if it seems ridiculous!

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