Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 646440 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

truth

Australia

#473523 Aug 28, 2013
your hune will tell you june dune duhne

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Just Sayin

Nashville, TN

#473524 Aug 28, 2013
Pad wrote:
<quoted text>"But when that which is perfect has come." The very fact that Jesus is the Word,and that we have the WORD today,gives us a Door of openness,that has been hidden from those of the old covenant for centuries.YET God in His mercy as recorded in Hebrews still met the needs of those old patriarchs and women who followed God without ever experiencing what we can have today.
The Bible in its full extent with both the OLD and NEW Covenants brings us to not only faith,but to practice and endeavor that INCLUDES God rather than to just obtain a religious belief system.
Believing in God and following a set of rules and regulations,doing certain things to our person in order to please God no longer applies to us as believers in Christ.His sacrifice or rather from HIS holy Incarnation thru to the Resurrection brings a way of life to us as believers and saints in Him,that is not possible in any other religious structure.
God did not want a totalitarian way of life with His Hebrews(Jews),He wanted to be their: God,King,only Love,Friend,Savior,Protector,G uide,Comforter,and so on.
Since the Jews had to come by this the hard way through Canon Law and whatever,they could not perceive that God could be anything but a delegator of law and commands.Only a few Prophets,and leaders of Jewish generations really knew the full heart of God.The People for the most part missed the mark,even when God showed tremendous ways of deliverance for them.
We are no different today.Unless we open our eyes to the New Covenant and allow Jesus to birth in us through the Holy Spirit that spiritual New Creation,we are in the dark as to what the will and heart of God is for us.We are quick to follow rules and regulations,and to do something physical to try to please God,and of course wearing things that might appeal to the Kingdom as well.
But in Christianity and through the written pages of the New Testament,we can have the reality of living as New Creatures in Christ Jesus.That does not require the use of images to kneel before and kiss,as God is in our hearts,He is real to us from within,we do not have to seek Him through that which we create with our hands,to represent Him.For the Kingdom of the Father is within us.
I believe you still are mistaken. The use of images, statues, prayer beads, paintings, scuptures, beautiful architecture, are not done to "please God."
The practices of almsgiving, penance, and fasting are not done to "please God".
These things are for OUR benefit so that we might grow spiritually in order to love God better.

And about kneeling. Catholics kneel during worship and this obviously makes quite a few non-Catholics uncomfortable. They do not understand why this is done. Well, here is why:
God is present during the Mass, and since He is, we should show Him the respect and reverence He deserves. Thus the most appropriate posture is to kneel (if not full face down prostration). Catholics do not leave their bodies at the door of the Church, we bring them with us in worship.

Since: Sep 09

Surrey, Canada

#473525 Aug 28, 2013
Ancient religions always operated on double standards.

"I'm HOLY ... you're EVIL ... I'm SAVED ... you're lost ... My god is REAL ... your god is FALSE."

Religion was and is the most self-centered organization on earth ... without question.
Just Sayin

Nashville, TN

#473526 Aug 28, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm smart - yes. In the least, I rcvd directly what "God" wants to do - and not thorugh some unknown author.
Why?
Your God is Self. Always gazing inward.
The difference in paintings/sculptures of Christian saints and Buddhist saints:
Buddhist saints always have their eyes closed, while Christian saints always have their eyes wide open.
Just Sayin

Nashville, TN

#473527 Aug 28, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
As I stated to Anthony - no it doesn't.
The Jews only accept Jesus as a prophet, lower than "God", and not as the "Messiah".
No fulfillment.
IMO - "replaced" is a better description, because then it makes the NT exclusive.
If there were any truth to what you say, Jews would be using the Bible jsut as much as you try.
So are you saying that the Divinity of Jesus depends on whether or not the Jews accepted Him as Messiah?
Are you saying that the truth of the New Testament, the Gospel message of Jesus, was dependant upon whether the Jews "use the Bible"?

Since: Sep 09

Surrey, Canada

#473528 Aug 28, 2013
Just Sayin wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe you still are mistaken. The use of images, statues, prayer beads, paintings, scuptures, beautiful architecture, are not done to "please God."
The practices of almsgiving, penance, and fasting are not done to "please God".
These things are for OUR benefit so that we might grow spiritually in order to love God better.
And about kneeling. Catholics kneel during worship and this obviously makes quite a few non-Catholics uncomfortable. They do not understand why this is done. Well, here is why:
God is present during the Mass, and since He is, we should show Him the respect and reverence He deserves. Thus the most appropriate posture is to kneel (if not full face down prostration). Catholics do not leave their bodies at the door of the Church, we bring them with us in worship.
Let's cut to the chase and tell you what you desire to be told.

The one and only god loves you and your rituals and your beliefs and will turn his back on all others. And for being so disrespectful to you who tells the one and only truth, they will have to spend eternity in hell.

THERE ... are you satisfied NOW???

Since: Sep 09

Surrey, Canada

#473529 Aug 28, 2013
Just Sayin wrote:
<quoted text>
Your God is Self. Always gazing inward.
The difference in paintings/sculptures of Christian saints and Buddhist saints:
Buddhist saints always have their eyes closed, while Christian saints always have their eyes wide open.
:)
truth

Australia

#473530 Aug 28, 2013
wicket canceler..usual giving name of your streets as well shape and symbols..
as cancers as cancare via satellite connect finish
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeee

where are you liked hide yourself..
not in heaven not on earth not inner earth

go out from city far away as could
where not street directory exist..

modern language and modern things are not deference from old things
no
symbolical everything

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#473531 Aug 28, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I've googled "orthodox church consubstantiation", very little, if anything definitive comes up. It's tragic that you'll go so far as to deny your own faith in order to avoid any association with Catholic beliefs. You're a hater Nick. You need spiritual help.
Anthony.
BASED ON YOUR PAST RECORD OF TRUTH AND CREDIBILITY RE ORTHODOXY I KNEW I COULD ACCEPT YOUR COMMENT AT FACE VALUE. NEVERTHELESS, I LOOKED UP CONSUB ON THE WEB AND FOUND A FEW THINGS.
First lets explain the difference between Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation:
Consubstantiation is the view that the bread and wine of Communion / the Lord's Supper are spiritually the flesh and blood of Jesus, but yet the bread and wine are still actually only bread and wine.
In this way, it is different from transubstantiation where the bread and the wine are believed to actually become the body and blood of Jesus.
Consubstantiation essentially teaches that Jesus is "with, in, and under" the bread and wine, but is not literally the bread and wine.
The prefix Trans- says that a change took place, the bread actually became the body of Jesus and the wine actually became the blood of Jesus. The prefix Con- says that the bread does not become the body of Jesus but co-exists with the physical bread so that the bread is both a bread and the body of Jesus.
Now we have to deal with a difficult and little understood problemconcerning the change of the elements into the Body and Blood of the resurrected and glorified Lord. The problem arose in the middle ages, when some Roman Catholic “theologians” started teaching that the bread and wine are “physically” changed (or trans-substantiated), so that the bread physically turns into flesh and the wine physically turns into blood!

The Orthodox never accepted this innovation and actually condemned it. To us, the change is “mystical” and not “physical.” This is explained to us in the beautiful “Prayer of Reconciliation by the
Thrice Blessed John.”1

Exalted above all the power of speech, and all the thoughts of the mind, is the richness of Thy gifts, O our Master. For that which Thou hast hidden from the wise and the prudent, Thou hast revealed unto us babes.

And those things which prophets and kings have desired to see and have not, the same didst Thou grant unto us, we the sinners, that we may serve It and be purified thereby, when Thou didst ordain unto us the Economy of Thine Only-Begotten Son, and the hidden mystery of this
sacrifice, which has neither the blood of the Law nor the righteousness of the flesh roundabout It. Behold the Lamb is spiritual and the knife is verbal and immaterial; that sacrifice which we offer unto Thee!

What we are told here, is that the change of the gifts is a “hidden mystery” that is exalted far above the limits of human thought or the power of speech. It is hidden from the wise and prudent, who want to
explain it in simplistic terms and reduce the “hidden mystery” into a physical trans-substantiation. But it is revealed to us, the “babes” who, in faith, believe in the mystery without any probing into the nature of the mystery, the “babes” who cry out aloud,“I believe, so be it.”

John Bishop of Bostra,(6th century) contemporary and friend
of St. Severus of Antioch
Just Sayin

Nashville, TN

#473532 Aug 28, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
It seems you figured out my question, without requiring additional information....good, because I thought it was pretty clear the first post I made.
<quoted text>
a. True - Catholicism is not a religion, it is a form of belief. Christianity is the religion.
b. Man devised Christianity, not "God".
- If you think this isn't true, please post where "God" specifically states which texts are to be used for Christianity and which ones are not to be used and then discarded.
c. You stated - "Catholicism teaches the way to have a healthy relationship with Him."
- Gotcha - a person must take ALL the steps in order to achieve this "salvation". That would still be Self.
It all starts and ends with YOU. No religion or belief needed.
<quoted text>
It does. It restricts me from believing the way I do. And since I believe differently, I can't be a Catholic, unless I revert back to what they would like for me to believe.
It restricts spirituality and beliefs. You are just to afraid to admit it, because it goes against the beleif you have been instructed to uphold.
Bummer for you.
<quoted text>
Self.
I'm not afraid to admit anything. And I admit that your logic and reasoning are full of giant holes. You can't make a valid point since your very belief system is based upon the fact that nothing can truly be known.
Kind of like the Bible-only folks' claim that the Bible alone is the sole authority and rule of Christian Faith when the Bible never claims itself to be such.
It's nonsense.
truth

Australia

#473533 Aug 28, 2013
its in as within
entire universe
how ever you try explain on your modern way as you say you are save..
-be bless if you save

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#473534 Aug 28, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I've googled "orthodox church consubstantiation", very little, if anything definitive comes up. It's tragic that you'll go so far as to deny your own faith in order to avoid any association with Catholic beliefs. You're a hater Nick. You need spiritual help.
======
Anthony.
BASED ON YOUR PAST RECORD OF TRUTH AND CREDIBILITY RE ORTHODOXY I KNEW I COULD ACCEPT YOUR COMMENT AT FACE VALUE. NEVERTHELESS, I LOOKED UP CONSUB ON THE WEB AND FOUND A FEW THINGS.

Orthodoxy has tried to resist overdefining the Eucharist in maintaining its status as a Holy Mystery

The Orthodox Church has always held to the view that it is a mysterious reality, and that it is not within the power of our minds to apprehend it. To ask, how the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ. St. John of Damascus in his exposition of the Orthodox Faith, Book IV. Chapter XIII — Concerning the Holy and Immaculate Mysteries of the Lord, pg. 83, says.“The Holy Spirit is present and does those things which surpass reason and thought.”

IN GENERAL, THE ORTHODOX FEEL THAT IT IS THE TENDENCY TOWARD RATIONAL ANALYSIS OF THESE SORTS OF DIVINE REALITIES THAT LEAD TO INNOVATIONS IN PRACTICE AND BELIEF.
HAD THE TENDENCY TOWARD WANTING TO DEFINE, SAY, THE STATE OF SOULS AFTER DEATH NOT BEEN SO STRONG, THE DOCTRINE OF PURGATORY, AND ATTENDANT PRACTICE OF INDULGENCES, WOULD NOT HAVE DEVELOPED.
BUT THE RATIONAL IMPETUS TO DEFINE AND TO DELIMIT IS DIFFICULT TO STOP ONCE IT'S GIVEN ITS WAY, AND SO ALSO DEVELOPS SUPEREROGATION AND DEFINITIVE TIME LENGTHS FOR CERTAIN PENANCES.

Since: Sep 09

Surrey, Canada

#473535 Aug 28, 2013
All that needed doing was to change the "H" to "J" and presto ... they had a new savior named Jesus.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>

Esus or Hesus was a Gaulish god known from two monumental statues and a line in Lucan's Bellum civile.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esus

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#473536 Aug 28, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I've googled "orthodox church consubstantiation", very little, if anything definitive comes up. It's tragic that you'll go so far as to deny your own faith in order to avoid any association with Catholic beliefs. You're a hater Nick. You need spiritual help.
------

Eastern Orthodoxy does not accept "transubstantiation. " It is a doctrinal innovation that came about after the Great schism, and has never been accepted in Eastern Orthodox theology, although some Eastern Orthodox (EO) theologians sometimes use the term

The bread and wine are by the invocation and descent of the Holy Spirit converted into the Body and Blood of Christ. But the manner of this change is unknown to us and inscrutable: the solution and explanation are reserved for the elect in the Kingdom of Heaven.”

Note however that within the Eastern Orthodox Church some still venture into dissection and explanation of the process.
Since Christ could be both fully god and fully man, and because grace does not destroy or replace nature & humanity but redeems and sanctifies and elevates nature, then the same can and should be true of the Eucharist.

The underlying chemical properties remain the same. Christ does not cease to be a man because He is God.
Nor does wine cease being wine when it becomes Christ blood.

The natural elements are not destroyed but faith holds in balance the paradoxical nature of the mystery of the incarnation in the EUCHARIST.

Here are some quotes:

John Breck: "Then again, Orthodox Eucharistic theology does not explain the change of bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ as a result of "transubstantiation, " the teaching that the "accidents" (visible properties) of the elements remain unaltered, while their "substance" or inner essence becomes the actual Body and Blood. Orthodox tradition speaks of "change" or "transformation," (metamorphôsis; in the Eucharistic Divine Liturgy metabalôn, "making the change") but always with a concern to preserve the mystery from the probings of human reason."

John Meyendorff's comment: "They [Byzantine theologians] would consider a term like "transubstantiation" (metousiosis) improper to designate the Eucharistic mystery, and generally use the concept of metabole, found in the canon of John Chrysostom, or such dynamic terms as "trans-elementation" (metastoicheiosis) or "re-ordination" (metarrythmisis). Transubstantiation (metousiosis) appears only in the writings of the Latinophrones of the thirteenth century, and is nothing but a straight translation from the Latin. The first Orthodox author to use it is Gennadios Scholarios; but, in his case as well, direct Latin influence is obvious." (Byzantine Theology, pp. 203-04)

Anthony Stratis contrasting the Orthodox view with the Romanist view: "Our Orthodox Church also believes in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. In other words, we believe (unlike the Protestant view) that Holy Communion, offered and received each Divine Liturgy, really is His Body and Blood, not merely symbols. Yet (unlike the Roman Catholic view), we do not attempt to describe Christ’s presence in terms of “substance,” venturing beyond the very mystery of the change that occurs during the Epiklesis of the Liturgy.

Since: Sep 09

Surrey, Canada

#473537 Aug 28, 2013
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>
Anthony.
BASED ON YOUR PAST RECORD OF TRUTH AND CREDIBILITY
Now it's YOUR turn to be told what you want to be told.

You are the only one who tells truth straight from the one and only god.

Now ... I suggest you do your menial chores for the day knowing you are RIGHT about everything.

:)

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#473538 Aug 28, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
I've googled "orthodox church consubstantiation", very little, if anything definitive comes up. It's tragic that you'll go so far as to deny your own faith in order to avoid any association with Catholic beliefs. You're a hater Nick. You need spiritual help.
======

More importantly, the question is specifically Transubstantiation - and the fact that this doctrine of Rome is an innovation, not any other aspect of the view of the Eucharist held by Rome.

The fact that the doctrine of transubstantiation is an innovation that came about sometime after the turn of the millenium is just an unavoidable historical fact.

Likewise, the fact that the bread and wine are still physically bread and wine after consecreation is confirmed by the physical sciences.

History and science - two great enemies of Catholicism

OTHER SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES BETWEEN ORTHODOX AND CATHOLIC RE THE EUCHARIST

The Orthodox call the Eucharist "the Mystical Supper".
Only the Priest distributes the Eucharist. Unlike Cathics the Orthodox would never have "Lay mine.Ministers" distribute the Eucharist.

The Orthodox would never have "Communion in the hand".
The Orthodox have Communion under both species: Bread and Wine
The Orthodox provide the Eucharist once a day on Sunday except on special days such " Liturgy of the Sanctified Gifts"
Unlike the Catholics, the Orthodox never declared the "exact moment" when the Bread and Wine" transform. The Orthodox, in humility, would never presune to know the mond of God.
Just Sayin

Nashville, TN

#473539 Aug 28, 2013
Regina wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you're fine. Many people kiss their finger tips or thumb after crossing themselves. Does that mean we're worshiping our fingers? Hardly, lol. It's actually quite beautiful. As someone on another forum said, the Cross is a symbol and a Crucifix a sacramental. Christ was not crucified on an idol, nor is an image of the greatest expression of love that ever was or ever will be an idol. To even suggest such a thing is absurd in the extreme. Then again, extremists are who you're dealing with here. You're absolutely right, God isn't jealous of an icon or statue depicting the Blessed Virgin Mary holding the Child Jesus. It seems to me the evil one is very happy that these folks have eliminated all visual reminders of God from the public square. That's exactly what he wanted.
My dad is a protestant Christian. Very involved in church stuff and has been for years. However, there is not one single picture of Jesus in his house, never has been as far as I can remember.
However, he does have a 8x10 color glossy of Bush Jr. hanging in a very prominant location.

Since: Sep 09

Surrey, Canada

#473540 Aug 28, 2013
truth wrote:
wicket canceler..usual giving name of your streets as well shape and symbols..
as cancers as cancare via satellite connect finish
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeee
where are you liked hide yourself..
not in heaven not on earth not inner earth
go out from city far away as could
where not street directory exist..
modern language and modern things are not deference from old things
no
symbolical everything
Your bible is what placed you in utter confusion. I suggest you get rid of it and believe that you will NOT burn in hell for doing the RIGHT thing.

If a god exists that is love ... there will be no hell.

Keep that in mind and YOU will do well.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#473541 Aug 28, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Troubled you? If I had falsely accused someone and viciously attacked them then realized my error I wouldn't have been "troubled", I'd have been deeply ashamed, remorseful and asked for forgiveness. I guess another thing you and Preston have in common is pride...so glad you two can share it with each other.
Preston by his actions, is a True Christian. You are a shame to your Church.I would pair up with Preston before you trust him respect him, and befriend him any day of the week before you.You see, because Christ is in the heart.

Since: Sep 09

Surrey, Canada

#473542 Aug 28, 2013
Those that place value on words in books written by theologians really don't have faith that the god is pure love.

If they did, they wouldn't need to study words. They would have faith that if they do their best ... god or no god ... all will be well ... period!

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