Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 665120 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#473468 Aug 28, 2013
Rosesz wrote:
Jesus,died to save,us..we,MUST be born again .
That's,salvation.
Do this,in Remembrance of Me is a good thing .he,did NOT SAY ..or else you are not Saved .
But ..it's,not salvation ..he made FAITH very simple .
<quoted text>
Some places,I'm betting have NO PRIEST ..what then ??
Your faith believes,only a,Priest can have us,partake in the,Lords,Supper ..
So these,folks,..who heard the message ..But have no priest . Cannot break bread in Remembrance ..cannot be saved ..
Don't get me wrong ..your Church worship a in the way it sees best ..many Catholics love,Jesus .
But your beliefs,on how important your Church and clergy are ..well it boggles,THE mind .
However ..there is,NO bigger advocate against something
Than a former participant .
See,I don't hate Catholicism ..I just don't believe
The way you all put s o much faith in the Religion.
You really have a hatred for the,Faith of Non CATHOLUCS And put our faith down at every turn
That's your right ..it's,your talking points,..
But din t scope t every one to buy it ..
Wrong!! I don't have ANY hate for the faith of non-catholics. For those who respect our Catholic Faith, I will return that respect!!
For those who chose to attack our (historically and biblically TRUE) CATHOLIC CHRISTIAN FAITH (of which many bible only Protestants have come on this forum--"for that purpose only" they will "feel the heat" in return!!--The difference Rosesz is that you believe in a "bible only" religion that has ABSOLUTELY no basis of biblical or historical truth to back up ANYTHING that it teach. Sola Scriptura was never believed or taught by anyone until the 18th century. It is nothing more than an extension of the Reformation---a "man-made doctrine of belief"! And of course it is your personal decision to believe what you want! HOWEVER, Jesus Christ left HIS apostles,disciples and followers HIS CHURCH---not the bible! There was no "written word" (no bible) until over 350 years after the death of Christ. It was the Early Church Fathers who forme and complied the Canon of Scripture, from the letters, documents,and parchments from the Apostles in 382,393 and 397. The Church came first and then the bible!! If you really think that the bible is the only way for salvation, then what about the Christians, who for the 1st 1500 years--didn't have a bible. In I Timothy 3:15 Paul calls "THE CHURCH (not the bible alone) the pillar, pinnacle and foundation of the TRUTH! He follows this up by saying, "if you have a question, conflict or disagreement, take it to the Church for clarification. Jesus established an "authority" for Christians, here on earth and that authority for TRUTH,is in and through HIS One True (Universal) Apostolic Catholic Church. Jesus Christ established an authority here on earth to preserve HIS revelation and decide the Bible Canon--and that authority is in Our Lords Holy Catholic Church. If you
disagree, then tell me what authority determined the Bible Canon!!!
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#473469 Aug 28, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>
So....I was right....you ain't got one.....you are a fraud...a fake...a make believe "christian"...
I wouldn't normally give "Pearls to swine" but I will make an exception in your case OX!..... My "born again experience has, is and will continue to be (each and every day)--as it has been for the past 18 years, at Daily Mass, "personally accepting Jesus Christ, as Lord and Savior in the Eucharist (His TRUE Body and TRUE Blood) and (each day) renewing "by water and of the Spirit" my baptismal commitment as a "new creation" in Christ Jesus, being Born in the Spirit of Our Lord!!!-------Your judgmental and condemning "distorted personal opinion" regarding my personal faith and Salvation in Jesus Christ, in and through HIS One True Catholic Church (has zero credibility) with me, as it has "I'm sure" with (any other Catholic on this forum!!..... You see, Ox, I have dealt with (anti-catholic) Bible (self-interpreting (editorial) "hacks" like you for over 35 years as a Protestant, and you like, everyone of your kind, CONTINUE to have "absolutely NO IDEA as to what you are talking about" which is no surprise to ANY OF US CATHOLICS who know the TRUTH of TRUE SALVATION in Jesus Christ--in and through HIS One TRUE Apostolic Catholic Church!!!
Clay

Melrose Park, IL

#473470 Aug 28, 2013
atemcowboy wrote:
<quoted text>raid not, old chap,
and speaking ONLY for myself. my job is secure, the pay is more than adequate, the retirement benefits are superb.
FOR IT IS WRITTEN, THE GIFTS AND CALLING OF GOD ARE WITHOUT REPENTANCE.
YOU CAN DISLIKE WHAT I SAY ALL DAY LONG [25] HOURS A DAY(lol) AND IT WILL NEVER CHANGE THE MIND OF GOD.
I was charged to stand against those who try to pervert the Holy Word, that charge has never nor will it be taken away from me, you can like it or not, I could care less.lol
Joel Osteen privately interprets scripture too. He thinks God wishes prosperity upon him and his family. Nobody questions him because they think he's an authority on the Bible. Sound familiar?

That's why he just sold his 2 million dollar home for a modest 10 million dollar home.
I guarantee you, Mr Osteen will never give up his lifestyle for the truth in Catholicism.

patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2013/08/Jo...

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#473471 Aug 28, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>
Edited for space...
You restated my post to where it makes no sense..
Here is the corrected info:
You first say: Yes,I believe that Jesus is the Son of God.
Then you say: 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, >>>>God with us.
Which, as stated, is contradictory.....If Christ is the Son of God, and if Emmanuel means "God with us", that is saying Christ is God????!!!!!
Which means the Scared Inspired Word of God is fallible...it teaches opposites on the matter...
I'm sorry,but I had to edit your post to me.

I should have posted edited for space.
For that I apologize.

So after all the things I said,you still cannot see?

Oxbow,you either believe God's Holy word or not.

God the Father,God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

There is only ONE God Oxbow.
The Son came from the Father and the Holy Spirit came from the Father.

When God said in the beginning;

Let US make man in our own image,who do you think He was talking to?

Also,In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

The Word became flesh and dwelled among men.

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him

(Hebrews 1:1-14)

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;
that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross,
by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Explain those passages to me,please?

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#473472 Aug 28, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
A TRUE CHRISTIAN FOLLOWS THE LEADERSHIP OF THE HOLY SPIRIT;
ROMANIST HAVE FOLLOWED THE TEACHINGS OF CONSTANTINE AND CONTINUED HIS DYNASTY IN ROME FOR 1600 YEARS...
THE DYNASTY OF DAVID, OF WHICH JESUS CHRIST IS...
according to the OLD TESTAMENT WAS ESTABLISHED IN JERUSALEM...
and in the en trim (which is currently taking place) between the
ascension and the return of Jesus Christ for His true Church (HIS BRIDE)
the dynasty of JESUS CHRIST is in the hearts of ALL BORN AGAIN believers.
JESUS DOES NOT HAVE A PHYSICAL KINGDOM IN ROME ITALY....
JESUS TOLD PONTUS PILATE
Joh_18:36 Jesus answered,==>
My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
JESUS SAID;
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,==>Except a man be born again, he cannot
see....(GREEK DEFINITION-)(know:- be aware, behold, X can (+ not tell), consider,(have) known (-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wist, wot.
the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot
enter.....(GREEK DEFINITION-) X arise, come (in, into), enter in (-to), go in (through).
into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
ONLY SONS ARE HEIRS....
Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
Joh 1:12 ==>But as many as received him, to them gave he
power...(GREEK DEFINITION-).(in the sense of ability); privilege, that is,(subjectively) force, capacity, competency, freedom, or (objectively) mastery (concretely magistrate, superhuman, potentate, token of control), delegated influence:- authority,
to become the
sons....(GREEK DEFINITION-)a child (as produced):- child, daughter, son.
of God,
even to them that believe on his name:
Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
ONLY BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS...THAT HAVE EXPERIENCED REGENERATION
ARE SONS OF GOD...
ONLY SONS OF GOD ARE NEW CREATURES IN CHRIST JESUS...
ONLY THOSE BORN AGAIN NEW CREATURES...SONS OF GOD ARE HEIRS TO THE KINGDOM OF GOD
~~~~
2Co_5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
NOTE
Jas_1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth,
that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
~~~
Near to the heart of God

There is a place of quiet rest,
Near to the heart of God;
A place where sin cannot molest,
Near to the heart of God.

Refrain:
O Jesus, blest Redeemer,
Sent from the heart of God;
Hold us, who wait before Thee,
Near to the heart of God.

There is a place of comfort sweet,
Near to the heart of God;
A place where we our Savior meet,
Near to the heart of God.

Refrain:
O Jesus, blest Redeemer,
Sent from the heart of God;
Hold us, who wait before Thee,
Near to the heart of God.

There is a place of full release,
Near to the heart of God;
A place where all is joy and peace,
Near to the heart of God.

Refrain:
O Jesus, blest Redeemer,
Sent from the heart of God;
Hold us, who wait before Thee,
Near to the heart of God.

continued

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#473473 Aug 28, 2013
continued

YOU CATHOLICS ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THE SACRED HEART OF MARY...

MY LIFE IS WRAPPED UP IN THE HEART OF GOD...

AND HE IS EN-WRAPPED IN MINE..

JESUS is my mediator...I need no other...

1Ti_2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Heb_8:6 But now hath he/JESUS obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb_9:15 And for this cause he/JEUSS is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Heb_12:24 And to JESUS THE MEDIATOR of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
truth

Australia

#473474 Aug 28, 2013
then you call
ocenas
Are you for sure?
hu huuu uuu where is that in pigeon box
or horn hu hu huuuuuu
or in chu chuuuuuuuu chuuuuuuuu chuuuuuu
3x explain
if you could please..

Every Spirit is not Holy?
youtubeNews

AOL

#473475 Aug 28, 2013
.

ISRAEL to give POPE "Custody" of Temple Mount --

http://youtu.be/Qt9kEQB4ti8

.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#473476 Aug 28, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Joel Osteen privately interprets scripture too. He thinks God wishes prosperity upon him and his family. Nobody questions him because they think he's an authority on the Bible. Sound familiar?
That's why he just sold his 2 million dollar home for a modest 10 million dollar home.
I guarantee you, Mr Osteen will never give up his lifestyle for the truth in Catholicism.
patheos.com/blogs/standingonmyhead/2013/08/Jo...
~~~~
YOU WROTE

Joel Osteen privately interprets scripture too. He thinks God wishes prosperity upon him and his family.

YOU ARE THE ONE THAT IS IGNORANT

AS ARE

so are many others that believe GOD WANTS YOU TO LIVE IN ABJECT POVERTY.

BECAUSE THEY HAVE NEVER DEFINED -->SALVATION<--

FROM A BIBLICAL PERSPECTIVE.

THEY ARE IGNORANT OF WHAT SALVATION INCLUDES...

THEREFOR IT NEVER BECOMES THEIR CONFIDENT EXPECTATIONS...

The Psalmist David wrote..

Psa_68:19 Blessed be the Lord,

who daily loadeth us with benefits, even the God of our salvation. Selah.

AND AGAIN

Psa_103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:

THE BENEFITS OF SALVATION/JESUS...

DEFINED IN HEBREW...

NOTE THAT ...JESUS (yeshu&#770;&#8219;a &#770;h)IS SALVATION..

H3444
&#1497;&#1513;&#14 73;&#1493;&#1468;& #1506;&#1492;
yeshu&#770;&#8219;a &#770;h
yesh-oo'-aw
Feminine passive participle of H3467; something saved, that is,(abstractly) deliverance; hence aid, victory, prosperity:- deliverance, health, help (-ing), salvation, save, saving (health), welfare.

H3467
&#1497;&#1513;&#14 73;&#1506;
ya&#770;sha&#8219;
yaw-shah'
A primitive root; properly to be open, wide or free, that is,(by implication) to be safe; causatively to free or succor:- X at all, avenging, defend, deliver (-er), help, preserve, rescue, be safe, bring (having) salvation, save (-iour), get victory.

H3468
&#1497;&#1513;&#14 73;&#1506; &#1497;&#1513;&#14 73;&#1506;
yesha&#8219; ye&#770;sha&#8219;
yeh'-shah, yay'-shah
From H3467; liberty, deliverance, prosperity:- safety, salvation, saving.

H4190
&#1502;&#1493;&#15 13;&#1473;&#1506;& #1492;
mo&#770;sha&#770;& #8219;a&#770;h
mo-shaw-aw'
From H3467; deliverance:- salvation.

H6495
&#1508;&#1468;&#15 11;&#1495;&#1470;& #1511;&#1493;&#1495;
peqach-qo&#770;ach
pek-akh-ko'-akh
From H6491 redoubled; opening (of a dungeon), that is, jail delivery (figuratively salvation from sin):- opening of the prison.

H8668
&#1514;&#1468;&#15 13;&#1473;&#1506;& #1492; &#1514;&#1468;&#15 13;&#1473;&#1493;& #1468;&#1506;&#1492;
teshu&#770;&#8219;a &#770;h teshu&#770;&#8219;a &#770;h
tesh-oo-aw', tesh-oo-aw'
From H7768 in the sense of H3467; rescue (literally or figuratively, personal, national or spiritual):- deliverance, help, safety, salvation, victory.

CONTINUED

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#473477 Aug 28, 2013
CONTINUED

SALVATION DEFINED IN GREEK...IN THE NEW TESTAMENT

G629
&#945;&#787;&#960; &#959;&#955;&#965; &#769;&#964;&#961; &#969;&#963;&#953; &#962;
apolutro&#772;sis
ap-ol-oo'-tro-sis
From a compound of G575 and G3083; (the act) ransom in full, that is,(figuratively) riddance, or (specifically) Christian salvation:- deliverance, redemption.

G4991
&#963;&#969;&#964; &#951;&#961;&#953; &#769;&#945;
so&#772;te&#772;ria
so-tay-ree'-ah
Feminine of a derivative of G4990 as (properly abstract) noun; rescue or safety (physically or morally):- deliver, health, salvation, save, saving.

G4992
&#963;&#969;&#964; &#951;&#769;&#961; &#953;&#959;&#957;
so&#772;te&#772;rion
so-tay'-ree-on
Neuter of the same as G4991 as (properly concrete) noun; defender or (by implication) defence:- salvation.

COMMENTARY BY F.B. MEYER
Romans 8:31-39

No Separation from Christ’s Love

Rom_8:31-39

This is the close of the Apostle’s argument. He has shown that believers are dear to God because they are in Christ; that their every need has been anticipated and provided for; that their guilt has been canceled and provision made for their holy and victorious character; that the Holy Spirit is in them and with them forever; that sin is under their feet and heaven over their heads-

what, then, have they to fear?
truth

Australia

#473478 Aug 28, 2013
evil is evil

real Creator not created anyone for suffering..

its clear and pure

i don't spend any 5 cents for production of anything

all of you liked be popular rich and much more

i don't need nothing personaly from anyone not at all

i born in powerthy where freedoom is zero

i will died liked that

your evil law is not my law
never will be

in this city nothing exist

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#473479 Aug 28, 2013
BEING BORN AGAIN...OF THE SPIRIT...

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot SEE...(literally or figuratively); by implication (in the perfect only) to know:- be aware, behold, X can (+ not tell), consider,(have) known (-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wist, wot.

the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

GOD WANTS US

FIRST

TO PROSPER SPIRITUALLY..

AND RECEIVE THE BENEFITS OF THE SUFFERING OF JESUS .

IN HIS DEATH

RESURRECTION AND

ASCENSION....

THEY ARE

Isa 53:4

1. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and

2.carried our sorrows:

yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

Isa 53:5

3. But he was wounded for our transgressions,

2.he was bruised for our iniquities:

3.the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and

4.with his stripes we are healed.

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and

5.the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#473480 Aug 28, 2013
A slightly modified version of a post of mine from a few days ago on another thread for anyone who's interested.

***ZZZzzzzz***
***ZZZzzzzz***

I get it.

Nevertheless....

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#473481 Aug 28, 2013
Mithraism and Christianity I

The Mithraic mysteries, according to David Ulansey,,“arose at about the same time as Chrstianity."1 Indeed, Plutarch seems to place the arrival of that religion on the shores of the Roman Empire at 67 B.C., less than a century before Christianity. But Roger Beck, a leading authority on Mythraism, rejects Plutarch’s date and places it in the “Flavian age”, 30 years or more after the birth of Christianity.2

Regardless, Mithras is the Roman version of Mithra, a god in the Zoasterian pantheon. But the Roman version of that god, and more precisely, the Mithraic mysteries as opposed to the Zoasterian religion, arose roughly concurrently and remained directly in competition with Christianity from the 1st century through the 4th century, "when [Mithraism] succumbed to Christianity".3

Franz Cumont, a brilliant scholar on Mithraism from the first half of the last century, believed many of the traditions regarding the Persian Mithra were carried over to the Roman version, Mithras. But this has become a minority view since the 1970's, after the First International Congress of Mithraic Studies, primarily for want of evidence.4 Some of the most basic elements of Roman Mithraism are nowhere to be found with respect to Mithra in the Zoasterian religion. For example, Mithra does not slay a bull in that tradition and there is no tauroctony, which is present in surviving Roman Mithraea. So relying on Zoasterianism or any of its precedents to date the Mithraic mysteries is much like dating Christianity based on Judaism – it doesn’t really work.5

1. Ulansey, David, The Mithraic Mysteries, in Scientific American,(v. 261, n. 6, December, 1989), pp. 130-5 at p. 130.
2. Beck, Roger, Beck on Mithraism: Collected Works with New Essays (Ashgate, 2004), p. 293.
3. Ulansey, David, The Origins of the Mithraic Mysteries (Oxford University Press, 1991), p. 4.
4. Congress of Mithraic Studies, Mithraic Studies: Proceedings of the First International Congress of Mithraic Studies (Manchester University Press, 1975).
5. Beck, Beck on Mithraism, p. 293.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#473482 Aug 28, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
BEING BORN AGAIN...OF THE SPIRIT...
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot SEE...(literally or figuratively); by implication (in the perfect only) to know:- be aware, behold, X can (+ not tell), consider,(have) known (-ledge), look (on), perceive, see, be sure, tell, understand, wist, wot.
the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
GOD WANTS US
FIRST
TO PROSPER SPIRITUALLY..
AND RECEIVE THE BENEFITS OF THE SUFFERING OF JESUS .
IN HIS DEATH
RESURRECTION AND
ASCENSION....
THEY ARE
Isa 53:4
1. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and
2.carried our sorrows:
yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5
3. But he was wounded for our transgressions,
2.he was bruised for our iniquities:
3.the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and
4.with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and
5.the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
~~~

THE ABOVE IS THE REASON THAT JOHN WRITES-->

3Jn 1:1 The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth.

3Jn 1:2 --> Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.


3Jn 1:3 For I rejoiced greatly, when the brethren came and testified of the truth that is in thee, even as thou walkest in the truth.

3Jn 1:4 I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#473483 Aug 28, 2013
Mithraism and Christianity II

For Ulansey and others of his generation of scholars, little other than the name of the Persian deity was borrowed for the Roman mysteries. Beck sees more than that, but not to the extent Cumont did at the beginning of the 20th century. In Ulansey's words, there were "a number of serious problems with Cumont's assumption that the Mithraic mysteries derived from ancient Iranian religion. Most significant among these is that there is no parallel in ancient Iran to the iconography which is the primary fact of the Roman Mithraic cult. For example, as already mentioned, by far the most important icon in the Roman cult was the tauroctony. This scene shows Mithras in the act of killing a bull, accompanied by a dog, a snake, a raven, and a scorpion; the scene is depicted as taking place inside a cave like the mithraeum itself. This icon was located in the most important place in every mithraeum, and therefore must have been an expression of the central myth of the Roman cult. Thus, if the god Mithras of the Roman religion was actually the Iranian god Mithra, we should expect to find in Iranian mythology a story in which Mithra kills a bull. However, the fact is that no such Iranian myth exists: in no known Iranian text does Mithra have anything to do with killing a bull."6

Assuming any parallels between Christianity and Mithraism requires syncretism only on Christianity’s part is naïve. As Cumont notes, "The only domain in which we can ascertain in detail the extent to which Christianity imitated Mithraism is that of art. The Mithraic sculpture, which had been first developed, furnished the ancient Christian marble-cutters with a large number of models, which they adopted or adapted…"7 Cumont goes further: "We are too imperfectly acquainted with the dogmas and liturgies of the [Mithraic Mysteries], as well as with the development of primitive Christianity, to say definitely what mutual influences were operative in their simultaneous evolution. But be this as it may, resemblances do not necessarily suppose an imitation. Many correspondences between the Mithraic doctrine and the Catholic faith are explicable by their common Oriental origin. Nevertheless, certain ideas and certain ceremonies must necessarily have passed from the one cult to the other; but in the majority of cases we rather suspect this transference than clearly perceive it."8

In short, these religions arose at approximately the same time, likely borrowed from one another as well as inherited common themes and assimilated common cultural motifs of the time. But which borrowed from which and what themes were borrowed vs. inherited or assimilated from other influences is simply not knowable in the main. In this regard, I’d recommend a reading of Drudgery Divine by Jonathan Z. Smith of the University of Chicago. So would Beck.

6. Ulansey, David, http://www.mysterium.com/mithras.html .
7. Cumont, Franz V.M., McCormack, Thomas J., ed., The Mysteries of Mithra (Open Court Publications, 1903), p. 196.
8. Ibid., p. 194.
truth

Australia

#473484 Aug 28, 2013
deceiver is deceiver

on Cross is pure and clear INRI
where is that your letters there..

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#473485 Aug 28, 2013
Mithraism and Christianity III

And as to common inheritance, the December 25th celebration in both religions may simply be usurping the Roman celebration for Sol Invictus rather than one religion necessarily borrowing that date from the other. There is no such date in the Iranian tradition for Mithra that I am aware of, nor is there one in the Christian scriptures, only in later tradition. With respect to the Christian practice, Cumont claims that “it appears certain that the commemoration of the Nativity was set for the 25th of December, because it was at the winter solstice that the rebirth of the invincible god, the Natalis Invictus, was celebrated.”9

Often on the Internet one sees references to "wise men" coming to Mithra's birth bearing gifts,but I have never found evidence of that. His birth is sometimes shown in art being attended by three shepherds, but not magi, and no gifts are involved that I’ve ever discovered. This likely is a misinterpretation of 4th century Christian art that sometimes depicted three Mithraic priests attending Jesus’s nativity. That is, by the fourth century, the magi of Matthew sometimes were depicted in some Christian art as Mithraic priests. I assume this was intended as a thumb in the eye for Christianity's main rival at the time, but it also makes some sense. Since the Mithraic mysteries relied heavily on astrology, and since "magi" is the Greek plural for magician, a term that included astrologers, why not portray these astrologers as Mithraic priests? Why not portray your rivals worshiping your deity at his birth given Matthew’s story of magi attending the birth and Mithraism’s link to the Zodiac?

Likewise with the common claim Mithras was born of a virgin. Mithras emerged from a rock10 without the help of a virgin, at least in mainstream Mithraism. I can find no reference in Cumont, Beck, or Ulansey that supports this claim or the common claim of crucifixion or decent into hell by Mithras.
What’s the upshot of all this? Mithraism and Christianity have much in common, just not as much as is commonly claimed with respect to their “saviors”. The shared traits between the two religions makes great since these religions developed in the same time and culture and both were offshoots of other, older oriental religions. But trying to trace the precise source of those influences can be drudgery divine.11

8. Ibid., p. 194.
9. Cumont, Franz V.M., Mithraism and the religions of the Empire, in Open Court (v. 16, n. 12, December 1902) pp. 717- 32 at p. 726.
10. Tripolitis, Antonia, Religions of the Hellenistic-Roman Age (Eerdmans, 2002), p. 50.
10. Smith, Jonathan Z., Drudgery Divine,(University of Chicago Press, 2002).

Since: Jul 08

Columbus, OH

#473486 Aug 28, 2013
Footnote 10. Smith... = 11. Smith...
Chess Jurist

Columbus, OH

#473487 Aug 28, 2013
makes great since = makes great sense since

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