Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 690454 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

realist

Downers Grove, IL

#465709 Jul 25, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I would never disagree with the early Christian writers on Dogma and sacred teachings from the Apostles.
UUUMMM Clay boy.The bible was written by dehydrated goat herders that were delusional from the hot desert heat.FYI.Your welcome.

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#465710 Jul 25, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>
You said salvation happens "At the moment of belief".
To support that statement you quoted: Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Tell me that this verse says not that the devils also believed...
Then there is the verse I quoted on demons believing: Mt 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Tell me these demons did not only believed, but that they knew that Jesus is the Son of God...
Tell me that these demons did not "fill the bill" regards salvation happening, as you said, "at the moment of belief...
Ok..Not yo be crude here

I can believe in my head that having relations,with my husband will give me a baby ..I can even keep a fertility chart and subscriber relations on a,certain day.

In my head,I know this will work

BUT UNTIL GOD SEES,FIT TO UNITE EGG AND SPERM. THERR will be no baby .

The same way I can reade books about Jesus..or even go to church and take the sacraments..

But until the Spirit calls and I believe the words on the page and in my heart.

That He died for ME ..Not withstanding my being unworthy..It's just words on a page..

When I get on my knees and surrender in BELIEF from my heart and soul ..then am I saved

Religion is an exercise ..Faith thru Grace is salvation
Chuck

Dublin, OH

#465711 Jul 25, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
God will determine if you're going to Heaven, I won't.
If someone changes the word of God, do you still believe they are saved?
I am not changing the Word of God. I am not a pastor or a teacher so how am I changing it? You said I change...how?

Take osas...I'm not teaching it in a church as truth or to a group of people, it's just what I believe.

“Free gift means FREE”

Since: Jan 09

Chicagoland

#465712 Jul 25, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not really familiar with Premill. I'm sure if I knew the early writers personally, I would disagree on some of their cultural or personal opinions.
Sacred Dogma can not be changed. Those are teachings that came from the Apostles via Jesus Christ.
This proves all the more, that Christ would have set up an authority to determine disagreements.
You say He set up a Bible for us to open up and figure it out. We say He set up a teaching Magisterium that would not error. Otherwise, how would we know what truth is?
Premill, is Premillenialism. Now, you make the claim of disciples / early writers/ church fathers knowing the Apostles, etc. So...I pointed out Irenaeus and Martyr being Premill. If you logic follows, then you should be Premill, yes???
Chuck

Dublin, OH

#465713 Jul 25, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
God will determine if you're going to Heaven, I won't.
If someone changes the word of God, do you still believe they are saved?
I didn't ask you to determine.
I just asked your opinion.

If I die a true born again believer who was even baptized. I don't believe we need to be baptized to go to Heaven but if I'm wrong do you think that would keep me out of Heaven even though the fact is I was baptized?

How hard is a YES or No answer....

“Free gift means FREE”

Since: Jan 09

Chicagoland

#465714 Jul 25, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
There was no OT canon during the time of Luke and Jesus. Its proven fact that the OT canon came after Christianity.
That brings up an interesting topic. How do you know the Books in your Bible are the correct Books that God wills for Christianity? Someone had to decide on the canon of scripture. The Apostles never set up a canon, they set up a Church.
I disagree, for the very fact of what Jesus said in Luke 24:44. Also, it's not a proven fact, that the OT Canon came "after" Christianity. Some speculate the OT Canon was closed at Jamnia, however, some say it was closed during the Hasmonean Dynasty. Look into that. I agree Christ established a Church, however, the word "church" means Ekklesia, which is not a isolated reference or code name for your Rcc. Also, if you do a word search, on a Bible search engine, the words "the church" are in reference to many established "church-es". The are many, but one, no different than the Trinity being 3 in 1.

“GOD SO LOVED US”

Since: Aug 08

He Gave His SON,JESUS Christ

#465715 Jul 25, 2013
hojo wrote:
“...Christ the Lord, in whom the entire revelation of the most high God is summed up (see 2 Corinthians 1:20; 3:16–4:6), having fulfilled in his own person and promulgated with his own lips the Gospel promised by the prophets, commanded the apostles to preach it to everyone as the source of all saving truth and moral law, communicating God’s gifts to them. This was faithfully done: it was done by the apostles who handed on, by "oral preaching", by their example, by their dispositions, what they themselves had received—whether from the lips of Christ, from his way of life and his works, or by coming to know it through the prompting of the Holy Spirit”(Vatican II, Constitution on Divine Revelation, 7).
I BELIevE you hojo.

The thing is sadly over the centuries Some of this devotion was lost amid politics ..power ..the CHU R CH itself and proclamations and influence in the things if the world..And the world's influence on it.
Made it much greater in the EIGHTIES R OF than in its,Spirit and the WORD.

WHEN corrupt men have influence in God's church it becomes as the TEMPLE.

IMO.
When men led by God pointed these deviations out..they were labelled heretics and excommunicated.

The inquisitors SHOUKD have been the ones excommunicated ..

The corrupt in the very ..should have been also.

Unholy men should never HAVR Bern in Peter's CHair.

A whole lot if deviation frontage original message you cited.

I don't think z Luther s started out to make a,NEW CHURCH.

HE and the others wanted the CHURVH they loved yo come back to Christ instead if politics .

Your church needed the Reformers ..But it took a long time for their influence to be felt in your CHURCH .

VATICAN 2 was,to be a,huge st e p in that reconciliation.

But tiresome I've seen post Herr ..it's message plus those of Pope John Paul ..fell on deaf ears

Just my opinion...

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#465717 Jul 25, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus never told us what Books are Biblical. The Catholic and Orthodox can disagree on Biblical canon.
Jesus DID tell us about salvation.
You, Oldg, and Chuck believe in Sola Fide. Preston and Confrint do not.
One of you are guilty of changing the word of God. I don't want to incite a fight here.
I want you to answer this question: If someone changes the Word of God to go against what Christ willed, are they still 'saved'?
~~~

I will answer you word from the Bible...

first the Old Testament.

Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

from the New Testament

Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

NOTE ==> "as it is written" <==

Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

==>as it is written,<==

That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

As for lying about God's word...

Rev_21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

COMPARING THE SINFUL TRACK RECORD OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC (so called) CHURCH..

WITH THE ABOVE SCRIPTURES ...IT... AS A ORGANIZATION ... DON'T HAVE A

CHANCE

OF A SNOW BALL IN THE GOBI DESERT.
Human Being

Sunset, LA

#465718 Jul 25, 2013
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
Well nit exactly how,I would put it
We are born again
We may sin..the Spirit within us tells us it's,wrong.
If we keep sinning His voice ..pinching whatever you may want to call it gets,stronger.
God help us if we harden our souls to that prodding . Our consciences are a tool of the SPIRIT in a believer..imo
RoSesz

I think I understand what you are saying, and God forbid, that I lead you down a wrong path.

We are all experiencing God in ways which are sometimes hard to conceptualize, and even more difficult to put into words.

And at any one time we seem to have a certain clarity in our relationship with God, and try to describe it.

More or less, we are traveling either toward or away from God. And that is our decision, as a part of our free-will.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#465719 Jul 25, 2013
who="Oxbow"
You said salvation happens "At the moment of belief".
To support that statement you quoted: Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Tell me that this verse says not that the devils also believed...
Then there is the verse I quoted on demons believing: Mt 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Tell me these demons did not only believed, but that they knew that Jesus is the Son of God...
Tell me that these demons did not "fill the bill" regards salvation happening, as you said, "at the moment of belief...

**********

It can KNOW/believe that you are throwing a party.

It is a very different thing for me to know that "I" have an invitation to your party, which I can accept, or refuse.

Demons know that we have such an invitation. They do not.

KayMarie
Human Being

Sunset, LA

#465720 Jul 25, 2013
Hermeneutics Smutics wrote:
<quoted text>
You are aces in my book then,Maximus the Confessor, a real protector of the faith
Herme

Back at you my friend....

I fall into a bad habit of overthinking subjects, and need to remind myself to keep simplifying....

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#465721 Jul 25, 2013
who="June VanDerMark"
I never believed Jesus was a savior. When I was in religion I just believed he was another teacher as were other religious teachers in other religions.
Yes, I did leave religion behind. It was and is nothing but fuel for right-fighters to make fools of their selves.
**********

That is your problem. You never 'believed' in Jesus as Savior. Thus, you were never 'born again'.

"The 'natural' man cannot receive the things of the Spirit.
You MUST be born again.

Simply put: You speak of what you do not know.

KayMarie

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 53:1.--6 "MATT 10:27"

#465722 Jul 25, 2013
[who="Oxbow"
I will respond to your post as you have done to several of mine...
**********

Meaning...???

KM
June VanDerMark

Since: Sep 09

Kitwanga, Canada

#465723 Jul 25, 2013
marge wrote:
<quoted text>
agree, they were insprired by God right then and there for a reason, that people would know the Truth for certain.
So you believe that the same god that inspired Jews to write in the old testament that they were his chosen few, later had a desire to inspire ex-Jews to contradict the god's first "testimony" by sending his own JEWISH son to earth to claim that Christians are now his chosen ones and the Jews must first become Christian before they can be saved???

By that tale you insinuate that Jesus (being a Jew) can't enter Christian heaven.

Religion is BUNK!

“Free gift means FREE”

Since: Jan 09

Chicagoland

#465724 Jul 25, 2013
Philo the Jewish philosopher (20BC-AD40) never once quotes from the Apocrypha

Josephus the Jewish historian (AD30-100) specifically identifies the 22 books which equate to the Protestant canon (Antiquities, Against Apion 1:8).

The Jews acknowledged the cessation of prophecy with Malachi ca.400BC

Christ's division of Scripture (Luke 24:44) into the three classes accepted by the Jews (the Law, the Prophets and the Psalms) endorses the Jewish canon.

To the Jews were committed 'the very words of God'(Romans 3:2) and Christians receive these oracles from them.

“Free gift means FREE”

Since: Jan 09

Chicagoland

#465725 Jul 25, 2013
Hubert Jedin, Catholic historian on Council of Trent(Canon)

“[Seripando was] Impressed by the DOUBTS OF St. Jerome, Rufinus, and St. John Damascene ABOUT THE deuterocanonical books of the Old Testament, Seripando favored a DISTINCTION in the degrees of authority of the books of the Florentine canon. The highest authority among all the books of the Old Testament must be accorded those which Christ Himself and the apostles quoted in the New Testament, especially the Psalms. But the rule of citation in the New Testament does not indicate the difference of degree in the strict sense of the word, because certain Old Testament books not quoted in the New Testament are equal in authority to those quoted. St. Jerome gives an actual DIFFERENCE IN DEGREE of authority when he gives a HIGHER PLACE to those books which are adequate TO PROVE A DOGMA than to those which are READ MERELY FOR edification. The former, the protocanonical books, are "libri canonici et authentici"; Tobias, Judith, the BOOK OF WISDOM, the books of Esdras, Ecclesiasticus, the books of the Maccabees, and Baruch are only "canonici et ecclesiastici" and make up the canon morum in contrast to the canon fidei. These, Seripando says in the words of St. Jerome, are suited for the edification of the people, BUT ARE NOT AUTHENTIC, that is, NOT SUFFICIENT TO PROVE DOCTRINE. Seripando emphasized that in spite of the Florentine canon the question of a TWOFOLD CANON was STILL OPEN and was treated as such by learned men in the Church. Without doubt he was thinking of Cardinal Cajetan, who in his commentary on the Epistle to the Hebrews accepted ST. JEROME'S VIEW which had had supporters throughout the Middle Ages.” Source: Hubert Jedin, Papal Legate At The Council Of Trent (St Louis: B. Herder Book Co., 1947), pp. 270-271.







“For the last time [Seripando] expressed his doubts [to the Council of Trent] about accepting the deuterocanonical books into the canon of faith. Together with the apostolic traditions the so-called apostolic canons were being accepted, and the eighty-fifth canon listed the BOOK OF SIRACH (Ecclesiasticus) AS NON-CANONICAL. Now, he said, it would be contradictory to accept, on the one hand, the apostolic traditions as the foundation of faith and, on the other, to directly reject one of them.”

Source: Hubert Jedin, Papal Legate At The Council Of Trent (St Louis: B. Herder Book Co., 1947), p. 278.
Human Being

Sunset, LA

#465726 Jul 25, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
I seem to be conscious now, but I don't know if after the cells in my brain dies whether consciousness continues or ends at that point.
I'm content to wait until the scenario unfolds in its own due time.
I don't pretend to be a fortune-teller.
June:

That's a pretty non-committal statement. So, I guess, I am asking for a more intrinsic or subjective answer.

It is more an agnostic view, imho, than an atheist view.

If you perceive or not perceive consciousness relies more on brain-power, and thus subject to conflict, and non-resolution, and results are tainted.

So to be content in unknowing, is a rather insufficient answer, and maybe steps over the line to being ignorant, or wanting to remain ignorant.(Sorry if that sounds strong. I suppose I could have euphemized, I just couldn't think of a softer word....)

“Free gift means FREE”

Since: Jan 09

Chicagoland

#465727 Jul 25, 2013


“In his opposition to accepting the Florentine canon and the equalization of traditions with Holy Scripture, Seripando did not stand alone. In the particular congregation of March 23, the learned Dominican Bishop Bertano of Fano had alreadyexpressed the view that Holy Scripture possessed greater authority than the traditions because the Scriptures were unchangeable; that only offenders against the biblical canon should come under the anathema, not those who deny the principle of tradition; that it would be unfortunate if the Council limited itself to the apostolic canons, because the Protestants would say that the abrogation of some of these traditions was arbitrary and represented an abuse… Another determined opponent of putting traditions on a par with Holy Scripture, as well as the anathema, was the Dominican Nacchianti. The Servite general defended the view that all the evangelical truths were contained in the Bible, and he subscribed to the CANON OF ST. JEROME, as did also Madruzzo and Fonseca on April 1. While Seripando abandoned his view as a lost cause, Madruzzo, the Carmelite general, and the Bishop of Agde stood for the LIMITED CANON, and the bishops of Castellamare and Caorle urged the related motion to place the books of Judith, Baruch, and Machabees IN THE "canon ecclesiae." From all this it is evident that Seripando was by no means alone in his views. In his battle FOR THE CANON OF ST. JEROME and against the anathema and the parity of traditions with Holy Scripture, he was aligned with the leaders of a minority that was outstanding for its theological scholarship.”

Source: Hubert Jedin, Papal Legate At The Council Of Trent (St Louis: B. Herder Book Co., 1947), pp. 281-282.
Clay

Melrose Park, IL

#465728 Jul 25, 2013
Chuck wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't ask you to determine.
I just asked your opinion.
If I die a true born again believer who was even baptized. I don't believe we need to be baptized to go to Heaven but if I'm wrong do you think that would keep me out of Heaven even though the fact is I was baptized?
How hard is a YES or No answer....
A yes or no answer based on your question is impossible because I'm not God.
June VanDerMark

Since: Sep 09

Kitwanga, Canada

#465729 Jul 25, 2013
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
You were/are correct.
According to your assessment of the issue, I am no longer correct.

When I was under the spell of religion I believed that Jesus was a real man who preached of love, but was not a savior.

Now I believe that the Character of Jesus and his apostles, et cetera was a staged play created by the ex-Jew Christians to start a new religion.

Without that savior tale (which was re-warmed from other savior-myth tales in other religions)... there would BE no Christianity ... no popes sitting on thrones beating their drums of (truth) as they excommunicated each other ... no Martin Luther salivating to marry his beloved to in turn start the Protestant religion ... no Joseph Smith claiming to restore the new testament back to its original "truth" ... et cetera.

Imagine all the killing that could have been avoided had there been no religion over which to shed blood!

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