Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

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Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

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#461820
Jul 13, 2013
 
marge wrote:
<quoted text>
you explained it well Kay Marie.
God has called and everything that comes from those physical fingers is straight from god's imagination.

Just ask god's fingers that post on the forum and you will KNOW!!!

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

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#461821
Jul 13, 2013
 
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Luther and Calvin vs. the Church Fathers
Liars ... one and all.

All they did was quote their own beliefs, and went home with the same divided beliefs with which they first came in order to fight and squabble among their selves who the god loved and who the god disowned.

Idiots!
ReginaM

Toms River, NJ

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#461822
Jul 13, 2013
 
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Regina they are following their tradition.
The novel teaching of Luther
Luther and Calvin vs. the Church Fathers
[originally uploaded 17 February 2001. Revised and expanded on 13 August 2003]
*****
Jesus did not literally become sin, or a sinner. He was sacrificed for our sins (Is 53:10) and bore the penalties for our sins and transgressions (Is 53:4-6). But He Himself was without sin, being God, in Whom no sin can dwell. It is not possible for God (even the incarnate God) to "be a sinner," and it is heresy and blasphemy to make such an outrageous claim. The Fathers explain what was meant at 2 Corinthians 5:21, which is the usual Protestant primary source for the assertion that Jesus "became sin" in a crass literal sense:
*** CLICK ON "Tolle, lege!" immediately below to finish this article ***
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.(RSV)
Ancient Christian Commentary (general editor Thomas C. Oden, Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1998 -):
Ambrosiaster:
In view of the fact that he was made an offering for sins, it is not wrong for him to be said to have been made 'sin,' because in the law the sacrifice which was offered for sins used to be called a 'sin.'
[Commentary on Paul's Epistles]
St. John Chrysostom:
God allowed his Son to suffer as if a condemned sinner, so that we might be delivered from the penalty of our sins.
[Homilies on the Epistles of Corinthians]
St. Cyril of Alexandria:
We do not say that Christ became a sinner, far from it, but being righteous (or rather, righteousness, because he did not know sin at all), the Father made him a victim for the sins of the world.
[Letter 41.10]
St. Ambrose:
So, was the Lord turned into sin? Not so, but, since he assumed our sins, he is called sin. For the Lord is also called an accursed thing [Gal 3:13], not because the Lord was turned into an accursed thing but because he himself took on our curse ... It is written that he was made sin, that is, not by the nature and operation of sin ...; but that he might crucify our sin in his flesh, he assumed for us the burden of the infirmities of a body already guilty of carnal sin.
[The Sacrament of the Incarnation of Our Lord 6.60]
Eusebius:
He embraced death for us with all willingness and 'became a curse for us,' holy and all-blessed though he was.
[The Proof of the Gospel 4.17]
St. Gregory Nazianzen:
... it is said that he was made sin or a curse for us; not that the Lord was transformed into either of these - how could he be? But because by taking them upon him he took away our sins and bore our iniquities.
[Letters on the Apollinarian Controversy 101]
Additional commentary:
St. Augustine:
He Himself could commit no sin. But because of the likeness of the flesh of sin in which He came, He was Himself called sin, who was to be sacrificed for a washing away of sin ... that is, a sacrifice for sin, by means of which we are able to be reconciled ... the sin He became was not His own but ours.
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/08/2-cori... more on link.
Thank you for bringing up the fact that Jesus did not literally become sin. I meant to address that part but forgot, although I remember having a go-round with LTM about that a long time ago. That was when there were many more Catholics here (and Orthodox) and every one of us had to explain to her what was meant by that. She still insists to this day that Christ literally became sin and it seems she's not alone. I'm appalled that this is what their so-called "preachers" are teaching them. It's heretical and blasphemous. In a word, it's Protestantism.

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

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#461823
Jul 13, 2013
 
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks,..I'm thinking from Reginas,response..She also did not learn this as,a Catholic.
Once I did it was so obvious what He cried out for..not physically .But spiritual pain FROM SIN
THE SAME PAIN of separation that We would bear if HE HAD NOT BORN IT FOR US
~~~

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray;

we have turned every one to his own way; and

--> the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. <--

2Co_5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us,

who knew no sin;

that we might be made

the righteousness of God in him.

“Greatest Love”

Since: Aug 08

For His Creation

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#461824
Jul 13, 2013
 
ReginaM wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
You have my sympathy.
<quoted text>
There was NEVER a time when Christ was separated from the Father.
NEVER.
Btw, you might have the permission of others to speak that way, Marge, but you don't have my permission. Stop it.
Why on earth then did He cry out. Feeling FORSAKEN.

His,sacrifice REGINA..was much greater than His torture and death..only physical..

We deserve more than physical pain for our many sins..But JESUS TOOK THAT PUNISHMENT for Us.
Dust Storm

Pipestone, MN

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#461825
Jul 13, 2013
 
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
Why on earth then did He cry out. Feeling FORSAKEN.
His,sacrifice REGINA..was much greater than His torture and death..only physical..
We deserve more than physical pain for our many sins..But JESUS TOOK THAT PUNISHMENT for Us.
He recited Psalm 22 which is a Psalm Jews recited when despair, trouble, sickness, pain, death and dark times read the whole psalm.
"I am poured out like water,"
"They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment."

Understand that the Lord Jesus truly had to suffer everything, humbling himself to the level of the lowest of all creatures, He who was the Lord, Son of God, true God of true God, submissive to the infamous death by the Cross (“whosoever is crucified is cursed by God”, reads the Torah), and so that the Psalm 22 of the Sacred Scriptures may be fulfilled:

“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; in you our ancestors put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them. To you they cried out and were saved; in you they trusted and were not put to shame. But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by everyone, despised by the people. All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads.'He trusts in the LORD,”' they say,'let the LORD rescue him.'"

The Lord also said:“I thirst!” for Psalm 22 reads:

“My mouth is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death.”

Also, after His death, when the soldier pierced His side with a spear, blood and water came out:

“I am poured out like water… My heart has turned to wax; it has melted within me”.

But after all this suffering, right before death, the Lord Jesus cried:“It is finished!”

For the Psalm 22 recited:

“All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him, for dominion belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations. All who go down to the dust will kneel before him— those who cannot keep themselves alive. Posterity will serve him; future generations will be told about the Lord. They will proclaim his righteousness, declaring to a people yet unborn: He has done it!”

“And Jesus gave a loud cry and said,‘Father, into your hands I give my spirit!’ and when he had said this, he gave up his spirit.”

For the Holy Scriptures read in Psalm 31:

"Into your hand I commit my spirit: you have redeemed me, O Lord God of truth! Let me not be put to shame, O Lord, for I have called upon thee. Let the wicked be ashamed, and be brought down to hell. Let the lying lips be put to silence. And as for me, I said in my fear, "I am cut off from your sight!" but you gave ear to the voice of my prayer, when my cry went up to you."

And the Scriptures continue being fulfilled through Psalm 16:

"Lord, you have assigned me my portion and my cup; you have secured my inheritance. The land you have given me is a pleasant land. What a wonderful inheritance! I know the Lord is always with me. I will not be shaken, for he is right beside me. My body also will rest secure, because you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay."

“Greatest Love”

Since: Aug 08

For His Creation

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#461826
Jul 13, 2013
 
ReginaM wrote:
<quoted text>
How long have you been on here, Anthony, about five years? I've seen no change in the last three. A few newcomers who egg them on which makes them bolder with their insults, but that's about it. Nearly all the Catholics have shaken the dust from their feet by now.
I was speaking to a priest about it one day and he told me these people do not want to know the truth about the Church. They like what they're doing and it was prideful to think I could change their minds and inform them of what they had no desire to learn. Evangelizing is one thing...but this is not it. Father Dye seemed to come to the same conclusion, he had the right idea.
So you are saying you are shaking the,dust ...And leaving the forum??

Because we do not choose to worship the SAME Lord Jesus Christ. In YOUR CHURCH???

You seem to worship your church more than you do Jesus.

So if you are going ..God Bless You and grant you Peace

“Greatest Love”

Since: Aug 08

For His Creation

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#461827
Jul 13, 2013
 

Judged:

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Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Regina they are following their tradition.
The novel teaching of Luther
Luther and Calvin vs. the Church Fathers
[originally uploaded 17 February 2001. Revised and expanded on 13 August 2003]
*****
Jesus did not literally become sin, or a sinner. He was sacrificed for our sins (Is 53:10) and bore the penalties for our sins and transgressions (Is 53:4-6). But He Himself was without sin, being God, in Whom no sin can dwell. It is not possible for God (even the incarnate God) to "be a sinner," and it is heresy and blasphemy to make such an outrageous claim. The Fathers explain what was meant at 2 Corinthians 5:21, which is the usual Protestant primary source for the assertion that Jesus "became sin" in a crass literal sense:
*** CLICK ON "Tolle, lege!" immediately below to finish this article ***
For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.(RSV)
Ancient Christian Commentary (general editor Thomas C. Oden, Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1998 -):
Ambrosiaster:
In view of the fact that he was made an offering for sins, it is not wrong for him to be said to have been made 'sin,' because in the law the sacrifice which was offered for sins used to be called a 'sin.'
[Commentary on Paul's Epistles]
St. John Chrysostom:
God allowed his Son to suffer as if a condemned sinner, so that we might be delivered from the penalty of our sins.
[Homilies on the Epistles of Corinthians]
St. Cyril of Alexandria:
We do not say that Christ became a sinner, far from it, but being righteous (or rather, righteousness, because he did not know sin at all), the Father made him a victim for the sins of the world.
[Letter 41.10]
St. Ambrose:
So, was the Lord turned into sin? Not so, but, since he assumed our sins, he is called sin. For the Lord is also called an accursed thing [Gal 3:13], not because the Lord was turned into an accursed thing but because he himself took on our curse ... It is written that he was made sin, that is, not by the nature and operation of sin ...; but that he might crucify our sin in his flesh, he assumed for us the burden of the infirmities of a body already guilty of carnal sin.
[The Sacrament of the Incarnation of Our Lord 6.60]
Eusebius:
He embraced death for us with all willingness and 'became a curse for us,' holy and all-blessed though he was.
[The Proof of the Gospel 4.17]
St. Gregory Nazianzen:
... it is said that he was made sin or a curse for us; not that the Lord was transformed into either of these - how could he be? But because by taking them upon him he took away our sins and bore our iniquities.
[Letters on the Apollinarian Controversy 101]
Additional commentary:
St. Augustine:
He Himself could commit no sin. But because of the likeness of the flesh of sin in which He came, He was Himself called sin, who was to be sacrificed for a washing away of sin ... that is, a sacrifice for sin, by means of which we are able to be reconciled ... the sin He became was not His own but ours.
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/08/2-cori... more on link.
No one ever said Jesus,committed a,single sin.

But He did TAKE OUR SIN to the Cross..

“Greatest Love”

Since: Aug 08

For His Creation

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#461828
Jul 13, 2013
 

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June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
That's an all too common scripture that those who are pissed with others USE for their own aims.
I've had many Christians before you bring up that same scripture to the forum to use as artillery.
Do you believe that Jesus used that against those he perceived were "heretics?"
Silly self-ingratiating people!!!
God is not Jewish ..not Catholic ..not Protestant..not Islam

He has no religion ...HE IS GOD.

AND the FATHER

“Greatest Love”

Since: Aug 08

For His Creation

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#461829
Jul 13, 2013
 
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned every one to his own way; and
--> the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. <--
2Co_5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us,
who knew no sin;
that we might be made
the righteousness of God in him.
Thanks s I did ..I thought maybe I had missed some CC teaching as a child ..But obviously they don't teach this.

What on earth they think was in that CUP that He prayed that He might not Have to drink...I have no idea now

“Greatest Love”

Since: Aug 08

For His Creation

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#461830
Jul 13, 2013
 
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
He recited Psalm 22 which is a Psalm Jews recited when despair, trouble, sickness, pain, death and dark times read the whole psalm.
"I am poured out like water,"
"They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment."
Understand that the Lord Jesus truly had to suffer everything, humbling himself to the level of the lowest of all creatures, He who was the Lord, Son of God, true God of true God, submissive to the infamous death by the Cross (“whosoever is crucified is cursed by God”, reads the Torah), and so that the Psalm 22 of the Sacred Scriptures may be fulfilled:
“My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One; in you our ancestors put their trust; they trusted and you delivered them. To you they cried out and were saved; in you they trusted and were not put to shame. But I am a worm and not a man, scorned by everyone, despised by the people. All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads.'He trusts in the LORD,”' they say,'let the LORD rescue him.'"
The Lord also said:“I thirst!” for Psalm 22 reads:
“My mouth is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death.”
Also, after His death, when the soldier pierced His side with a spear, blood and water came out:
“I am poured out like water… My heart has turned to wax; it has melted within me”.
But after all this suffering, right before death, the Lord Jesus cried:“It is finished!”
For the Psalm 22 recited:
“All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord, and all the families of the nations will bow down before him, for dominion belongs to the Lord, and he rules over the nations. All who go down to the dust will kneel before him— those who cannot keep themselves alive. Posterity will serve him; future generations will be told about the Lord. They will proclaim his righteousness, declaring to a people yet unborn: He has done it!”
“And Jesus gave a loud cry and said,‘Father, into your hands I give my spirit!’ and when he had said this, he gave up his spirit.”
For the Holy Scriptures read in Psalm 31:
"Into your hand I commit my spirit: you have redeemed me, O Lord God of truth! Let me not be put to shame, O Lord, for I have called upon thee. Let the wicked be ashamed, and be brought down to hell. Let the lying lips be put to silence. And as for me, I said in my fear, "I am cut off from your sight!" but you gave ear to the voice of my prayer, when my cry went up to you."
And the Scriptures continue being fulfilled through Psalm 16:
"Lord, you have assigned me my portion and my cup; you have secured my inheritance. The land you have given me is a pleasant land. What a wonderful inheritance! I know the Lord is always with me. I will not be shaken, for he is right beside me. My body also will rest secure, because you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay."
At His,death Sin and its punishment was gone ..paid for by Him.

It is finished

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

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#461831
Jul 13, 2013
 
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks,..I'm thinking from Reginas,response..She also did not learn this as,a Catholic.
Once I did it was so obvious what He cried out for..not physically .But spiritual pain FROM SIN
THE SAME PAIN of separation that We would bear if HE HAD NOT BORN IT FOR US
And STILL ... not one sentiment for the REAL Jews that suffered and died all those centuries at the hands of rabid Catholics ... bibles and other weapons in hand.

I guess THOSE Jews couldn't give you that promise of salvation ... HUH?

Christians ... leeching on to an imaginary Jew in hopes that the Jew will save the Christians.

Yet century after century, the Christians never thought of saving the Jews from total annihilation.

But still ... Christians believed they should be rewarded.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

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#461832
Jul 13, 2013
 
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
God is not Jewish ..not Catholic ..not Protestant..not Islam
He has no religion ...HE IS GOD.
AND the FATHER
REALLY??? So why do you believe the one god with NO religion, favors ONLY those in the Catholic religion???

Liar!!!
socci

El Dorado Springs, MO

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#461833
Jul 13, 2013
 

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RoSesz wrote:
God is not Jewish ..not Catholic ..not Protestant..not Islam
He has no religion ...HE IS GOD.
AND the FATHER

That's not what Jesus said. God is very much Protestant; the author of the books of Daniel and Revelation where we find the Protestants ("saints")- God's people.
ReginaM

Toms River, NJ

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#461834
Jul 13, 2013
 

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RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are saying you are shaking the,dust ...And leaving the forum??
Because we do not choose to worship the SAME Lord Jesus Christ. In YOUR CHURCH???
You seem to worship your church more than you do Jesus.
So if you are going ..God Bless You and grant you Peace
You're parroting the protestant party line...."Catholics worship their church more than they do Jesus." I don't know which one told you that, but it isn't true, although it does seem to cover a multitude of other lies protestants tell about Catholics.

The Church is Christ's Bride, He founded the Catholic Church, it is His Mystical Body, and we are part of that Body. You cannot separate Christ from His Body, from His Church, but every single day you people make an attempt to do so.

You seem to worship your personal opinion over that of the Apostolic faith, the teaching passed on from Christ to His Apostles, His Church. I'll stick with the faith once given, you can have your opinions about what you think scripture means and how the faith developed over the centuries since Pentecost, because develop it did. Out of necessity in order to refute and correct heresy. How ironic that those same heresies are being revived and revisited by protestants all these hundreds of years later.

I did not say I was leaving.

Sorry :)
Dust Storm

Pipestone, MN

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#461835
Jul 13, 2013
 
ReginaM wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for bringing up the fact that Jesus did not literally become sin. I meant to address that part but forgot, although I remember having a go-round with LTM about that a long time ago. That was when there were many more Catholics here (and Orthodox) and every one of us had to explain to her what was meant by that. She still insists to this day that Christ literally became sin and it seems she's not alone. I'm appalled that this is what their so-called "preachers" are teaching them. It's heretical and blasphemous. In a word, it's Protestantism.
Yes it was gone over quite a bit. Which topic hasn't? However they will believe what they want and continue to tell us what we believe and why regardless. I just wanted you to see where their tradition derives from. Also you can see the ingorance of Rose as we have so often seen the ingorance of so called former Catholics whose knowledge of the faith is severely lacking.

Many Protestant scholars of which there are many who after deep study convert to the church say that the novelties they thought they had unraveled were often seen as ho hum everyone knows that. The gotcha moments sink into the abyss as they discover these things were known from the beginning and addressed in greater detail and understanding than they could have imagined. All they could see is those stupid Catholics who don't know anything many admitting they would not even read Catholic books old or new. Cardinal Newman summed it up nicely. To know history is to cease to be Protestant.

So when does invicible ignorance end? How many times have they repeated lies, Jesuit oaths, out of context statements, dozens of different interpretations among them, the Pope is God, inquistion fantasies, crusades, made up history, worshipping Mary, you are only ones who abuse, all priests are homosexuals, the church just made up books blah blah, blah. The willful ignorance is truly amazing. However despite what topic it is they throw out another barrage of garbage rather than answering and do not address the argument given in part or whole. Its amazing.

I just read Roses reply. lol You cant have an intelligent dialogue with someone like her. She only sees what she wants to see. However Catholics may strenthen their faith from it. These people have no desire to learn anything they have all they need and clealy each and everyone of them is guided by the Holy Spirit. So there are numerous truths. Who knew? Its all done nothing left to do.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

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#461836
Jul 13, 2013
 
If the one god sent his son to earth to give the warning that only Catholics would be allowed in Christian heaven ... the god must have been Christian.

BUT ... and that is a BIG "but" ... being that the Jews (IN JUDAISM) wrote of the god before the word Christian existed ... it seems that within the theology ... the one and only god favored the Jews.

Trying to steal the affections of the god away from the Jews was not nice of the Christians. They should have created their own god to love THEM.

Religion is trouble-making silly nonsense!
socci

El Dorado Springs, MO

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#461837
Jul 13, 2013
 
June VanDerMark wrote:
Liars ... one and all.
All they did was quote their own beliefs, and went home with the same divided beliefs with which they first came in order to fight and squabble among their selves who the god loved and who the god disowned.
Idiots!

No, not liars. Luther and the other Reformers were right about papal antichrist. They correctly understood what the Bible records for us!

“The Pope is Antichrist, and Popery the loosing of Satan, from whom proceedeth false doctrine and cruelty to subvert the kingdom of Christ: Now whether the Pope beareth these marks or not, let any indifferent man judge; I think surely it expounds itself: Doeth he not usurp Christ his office, calling himself universal Bishop and head of the Church? Playeth he not the part of Apollyon, and Abbadon the king of the Locusts and destroyer, or son of perdition, in chopping and changing of souls betwixt heaven, hell, and his fantastic or imagined purgatory at his pleasure? Blasphemeth he not, in denying us to be saved by the imputation of Christ his righteousness? Moreover, hath he not sent forth and abused the world with innumerable orders of locust and shavelings? Hath he not so fully ruled over the world these many hundredth years, as to the fire went he, whosoever he was, that durst deny any part of his usurped supremacy?”....“But I am sure none will condemn me for an heretic, save such as make the Pope their God...”(King James I, A Meditation on Revelation; Premonition).
www.jesus-is-lord.com/kjreve20.htm
ReginaM

Toms River, NJ

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#461838
Jul 13, 2013
 
RoSesz wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks s I did ..I thought maybe I had missed some CC teaching as a child ..But obviously they don't teach this.
What on earth they think was in that CUP that He prayed that He might not Have to drink...I have no idea now
My dear, I wish you would stop telling people what Catholics were and were not taught. You don't have a clue. It is necessary for one to have a desire to learn and to pay attention when they are being taught. Don't forget, I also went to Catholic school pre-Vatican II. Everything you say they didn't teach....guess what?...they taught it. You must have been out sick those days.

Since: Sep 09

Prince George, Canada

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#461839
Jul 13, 2013
 
socci wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not what Jesus said. God is very much Protestant; the author of the books of Daniel and Revelation where we find the Protestants ("saints")- God's people.
"GIMME ... GIMME ... GIMME!!! MY GOD ... NOT YOURS ... MINE ... MINE ... MINE!!!"

Silly selfish people!

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