Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 560,277
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story

Since: Sep 09

Terrace, Canada

#456602 Jun 26, 2013
More words from Robert F ... same page and same forum as above.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>

In my wildest nightmares, I could not imagine anything worse than a personal god that allows a devil to run earth ... and that gives free will, only to command that we follow "his" dictates, or burn in this devil's hell.

Ridiculous claptrap!

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#456603 Jun 26, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
The "all have sinned" argument doesn't work because not all have sinned.
Only a Catholic would argue that "all" includes Christ in defense that "Mary was sinless"....which she was not....she was thankful for her Savior...sinless people do not need a Savior!!!!

Since: Sep 09

Terrace, Canada

#456604 Jun 26, 2013
Raw Recruit

They said to me:“Thou shalt not kill,”
And well I understood
Thy brother’s blood thou shalt not spill,”
They spake, and it was good.
And then I could not understand,
Yet had to do their will:
Cold steel they put into my hand,
Saying:“Go forth and kill.

“Go forth with rage of race and slay:
Pile up the corpses for
What’s murder called in Peace—always
Is hallowed in a War.
The Church has blest your bloody blade,
The which in peace it cursed;
So go forth, son, all unafraid,
And do your bloody worst.”

What’s wrong in Peace in War is right,
So I will do their will,
And bear me bravely in the fight,
And kill, and kill, and kill.
Yet as I brave the battle test,
With dripping sword in hand,
Proving me equal with the best…
Christ help me understand!

Robert Service.

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#456605 Jun 26, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
A short while ago, you wanted evidence of a deity.
Now, you are asking for something else (while accusing ME of constructing a straw man). You're asking for empirical evidence of certain beliefs about God, not about the existence of God.
You are dancing around the bush here.
In any court, empirical evidence of the accused at a scene, or evidence there(such as fingerprints or DNA) tying the defendant to that evidence proves that the accused was actually present physically. The accused was not apprehended in the act, however, if enough verifiable evidence is acquired to witness that he was there, it is sufficient as factual evidence. That, in itself, gives veracity to the existence and placement as proof that the individual was present at the posited time and place.
Because no one can show any of this, it comes down to the point that lack of evidence of a proposition of existence or placement at any event, is sufficient proof that the entity was not there, and in reality, the probability of it's existence is highly questionable or non existent....It can only be assumed that it is nothing more than fabricated fantasy...which is worthless as "evidence" supporting the posit of the entity's existence....therefore, the posit is rejected.
Human Being

Welsh, LA

#456606 Jun 26, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not start with a presupposition that God was not omniscient at all.
I'm simply saying that if God is omniscient, then the future is predestined, and free will is impossible.
<quoted text>
Again, my question does not presuppose whether God is omniscient or not. In fact, it very clearly offers the possibility that God is omniscient, and what the consequences of that would be.
As for God being beyond our ability to reason about, well, as soon as you go there, you might as well toss the Bible in the trash, because you've just made that book false and even demeaning to God.
Supposedly humans are created in the image of God, and in fact Genesis implies that this likeness applies to our ability to reason as God does. If God is not held to the same logic and reason we are, then where does God's reason come from?
In any case, the whole "god is beyond our understanding" is just an attempt to sidestep what I think is a pretty fundamental aspect of Judeo-Christian ideology. I'd think the question would be a very important one for you; don't you care about the answer?
wilderide:

Your question is important. But to be brief it makes no logical sense.

I don't want to hurt your feelings, and in being brief, I am trying not to diminish the question, or you.

More or less, it has a lot of ambiguity, but the most basic flaw is that it affirms a consequent(and dysjunct), while at the same time stating a vacuous truth.

The vacuous truth is that to know everything means there is no free-will.

The affirmation of a consequent(fallacy) is that in your "complex" statement, " I'm simply saying that if God is omniscient, then the future is predestined, and free will is impossible."

It is hard for me to go much farther and keep is brief and simple. If you care, I can dissect it with you? It may be enlightening for both of us....

Since: Sep 09

Terrace, Canada

#456607 Jun 26, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
June:
So what is the Jewish Passover "ceremony"? In short the sacrifice of a lamb, to save individuals from death.
So what is the central part of the Catholic Mass/Eucharist?
Everyone says three times, "Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world..." As the perfect Sacrifice, since it came from God.
And that's the Truth.
Dogma-theft is your Catholic truth!!!

Passover would have been performed by Jesus (had he lived).

If Passover was good enough for that Jew
It also should be good enough for you

Right ... Robert F ... the ex-Atheist.

Clay

Chicago, IL

#456608 Jun 26, 2013
Seraphima wrote:
<quoted text>I agree that the two churches were once ONE...But in 1054 when the now known catholic church split from the now know Orthodox Church ,the now known catholic church took with them the word Catholic and form what is now known as the catholic church.And the now known Orthodox Church took the name Orthodox.....This is the Truth and the Light.Every Protestant here needs to know this and to understand....Just because your church has the word catholic does not mean that it is the church that Christ founded....The catholic church took the name catholic but the Orthodox Church took the Faith!!
You seem to get angry when Catholics say we're the true Church. Yet, you claim the Orthodox are the true ones. That's called a hypocrite.
I could care less if you believe the Orthodox are the true faith. I would expect nothing less. Why belong to a faith if you're not 100% convinced its the truth?

I don't think the Orthodox's argument against the Papacy holds any weight. Its clear Christ set His Church up with one leader. So it stands to reason the next generation would have one too.

Since: Sep 09

Terrace, Canada

#456609 Jun 26, 2013
Passover Seder

The Passover Seder (Hebrew: &#1505;&#1461;&#14 91;&#1462;&#1512;& #8206; [&#712;sede&#641;], "order, arrangement"; Yiddish: Seyder) is a Jewish ritual feast that marks the beginning of the Jewish holiday of Passover. It is conducted on the evenings of the 14th day of Nisan in the Hebrew calendar, and on the 15th by traditionally observant Jews living outside Israel. This corresponds to late March or April in the Gregorian calendar.

The Seder is a ritual performed by a community or by multiple generations of a family, involving a retelling of the story of the liberation of the Israelites from slavery in ancient Egypt. This story is in the Book of Exodus (Shemot) in the Hebrew Bible. The Seder itself is based on the Biblical verse commanding Jews to retell the story of the Exodus from Egypt:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover_Seder

Since: Sep 09

Terrace, Canada

#456610 Jun 26, 2013
Eucharist

Eucharist may refer to either the actual elements of the biblical Last Supper, or the modern Christian ritual which commemorates it. The word itself comes from the Greek word for "thanksgiving." Catholics and some Protestant denominations use "Eucharist" interchangeably with "Mass" to describe their Sunday morning Communion services. Other Protestant denominations may describe the Eucharist ceremony as "The Lord's Supper," "The Great Thanksgiving," or "Holy Communion."

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-the-eucharist...

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#456611 Jun 26, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
How effective is God?
Ask any amputee who has prayed for their limbs to be restored.
God must hate amputees...such a prejudiced deity...
Human Being

Welsh, LA

#456612 Jun 26, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
who="Human Being"
June:
In a sense you are true.
But in Christianity, there is an axiom which works...,
When and where Christianity increases, superstition decreases(And the reverse is true, when and where Christianity decreases, superstition increases.)
As a modern for instance, in the U.S., there has been a decline of Christianity, and an increase in paranormal, Wicca, paganism, spiritualism, tarot cards, séances, "eastern meditation", yoga, etc...) All these latter things are superstition oriented
**********
A famous man said on TV this morning (he has written a book about it)'When America was at her peak as a Christian nation, the world was less violent."
KM
"confront"
KM

Interesting thought.

I kind of feel God deals with nations based on Christ, and Justice. So within our own nation the more Christians there were, the more Justice was served and this preserved the peace(especially within our nation), but it spilled out into the rest of the world as well, as the Gospel was preached in the rest of the world, and Christianity spread.

It is more like the Spirit moves to where it desires, which are in/with those "hearing" the message, and accepting Jesus. And that is where the peace of Christ exists.

Since: Sep 09

Terrace, Canada

#456613 Jun 26, 2013
The Passover of Judaism and the Eucharist of Catholicism are as different as day and night.

And THAT was done on purpose by the ex-Jew Catholics.

The Catholic celebration is about the Catholic "disconnect" with Judaism ... while celebrating the idea that the eleven apostles, mother Mary and Jesus all chose to leave Judaism for the new religion.

Now THAT is claptrap!!!

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#456614 Jun 26, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
wilderide:
Your question is important. But to be brief it makes no logical sense.
I don't want to hurt your feelings, and in being brief, I am trying not to diminish the question, or you.
More or less, it has a lot of ambiguity, but the most basic flaw is that it affirms a consequent(and dysjunct), while at the same time stating a vacuous truth.
The vacuous truth is that to know everything means there is no free-will.
The affirmation of a consequent(fallacy) is that in your "complex" statement, " I'm simply saying that if God is omniscient, then the future is predestined, and free will is impossible."
It is hard for me to go much farther and keep is brief and simple. If you care, I can dissect it with you? It may be enlightening for both of us....
I think it's a very important philosophical topic, so I'm happy to dissect it. I do not see how a future which is known in advance can allow for free will. One clearly negates the other, IMHO.
Human Being

Welsh, LA

#456615 Jun 26, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
If God cannot be proved wrong, and God knows your fate in advance, then you have no free will.
wilderide:

You are obscuring a false dilemma here. Your "if/then" is more an "either/or"....
Clay

Chicago, IL

#456616 Jun 26, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
If God knows what you will do, can you do otherwise? If so, then God was wrong. God can't "give" you a choice if what you will ultimately do is predestined.
You ask great questions and are respectful for an Atheist.
I think Abrahamic religions all agree that God is outside of space and time. Our reality of hours, days and yrs are for us only. God invented them, and He is not bound by em. The Catholic Church teaches that God's ways are a mystery and we simply cannot grasp the wonder.
When He created this all, it was in one swoop. So yes, He knows all. Hitler was born and God knew what this man would do. But God didn't hold back His Spirit and allowed Hitler and only Hitler to make the choice himself.
Either way, its still free will on Hitlers part.
Human Being

Welsh, LA

#456617 Jun 26, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to agree with you on these points, as all are valid and DO play a role in one's belief.
Again, honesty is a key factor. Many of whom refuse to "dig" this deep and announce it - because it DOES affect their current belief in many different ways.
Self.
New Age Spiritual Leader:

I can't be quite sure on this, but it seems to me honesty goes to conscience, the more dishonest one is, the more their conscience is dark. But the light shines through the darkness regardless of one's honesty.
Clay

Chicago, IL

#456618 Jun 26, 2013
Black Thunder 42 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ask any amputee who has prayed for their limbs to be restored.
God must hate amputees...such a prejudiced deity...
That's always a great point from Atheist. Why doesn't God heel an amputee? I dunno. I would be curious to know what a Bishop of the Catholic Church would say about this. Hopefully I can ask Him someday.

Let me ask you this: If the One God (the Abrahamic Muslim, Jew and Christian God) The only God; healed an amputee tonight on CNN, would you suddenly accept Him? I bet you wouldn't based on political and ideological differences.
OldJG

Rockford, IL

#456619 Jun 26, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus says in scripture the bread is His body, the wine His blood. He says His flesh is real food and His blood real drink and that we must eat and drink His flesh and blood to have eternal life.
The oral tradition says the exact same thing.
You say "it's symbolic and figurative!!!"
But scripture DOES NOT say it's symbolic or figurative. Oral tradition says it's NOT symbolic or figurative.
What you say doesn't agree with scripture.
What we say agrees with scripture AND tradition.
So you are telling us what Luke and Paul wrote is a lie? Really?
Should we get out a BIG BLACK "MAGIC MARKER" and draw huge black lines through these verses nobody can see or read them. Well, should we?

Luke 22:19-20, 19 "And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me." 20 And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood."

I Corinthians 11:23-26, 23 "For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." 25 n the same way also he took the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes."

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#456620 Jun 26, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
If God restored severed limbs for the asking, then it wouldn't be miraculous, would it?
Again, you're projecting your strictures on what God should or shouldn't do.
The amputee thing's been run out here before, BTW.
So, you are saying that Jesus was lying about "prayer"?
There's no point in believing anything you people say anymore is there?

“ Ah see's lanlubbers Cap'n BT!”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#456621 Jun 26, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
The "all have sinned" argument doesn't work because not all have sinned.
Just more proof that your bible is incorrect, or you are deliberately lying.

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