Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.
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Dan

Omaha, NE

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#454239
Jun 19, 2013
 
OldJG wrote:
OldJG wrote:
Baptism is one of the most controversial issues in the Christian faith. Infant baptism vs. believer's baptism? Baptism by immersion or baptism by sprinkling/pouring? Baptism as a symbolic act of obedience and identification with Christ's death and resurrection vs. baptism as a requirement that God will not grant salvation without? Out of all of these debates, by far the most important is the question: Is baptism required for salvation?
What makes this question difficult is the fact that there are some Scripture verses which seem to indicate that baptism is necessary for salvation (Mark 16:16; John 3:5; Acts 2:38; 22:16; Galatians 3:27; 1 Peter 3:21). However, there are numerous other Scripture references which clearly and explicitly state that salvation is received by faith, with no other requirement (John 1:12; 3:16, 18, 36; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9). Further, in 1 Corinthians 1:14-17, the Apostle Paul makes it clear that baptism is not an aspect of the gospel. In Paul's brief outline of the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8, baptism is not even mentioned.
To add baptism, or any other work, to the gospel is to say that Jesus' death on the cross was not sufficient to secure our salvation. To say we must be baptized in order to be saved is to say we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ's death in order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus' death alone paid for our sins (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21). If we must do anything beyond receiving by faith God's salvation, that makes salvation dependent on our works, instead of dependent on the perfect and complete sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Yes, there are some verses that seem to indicate baptism as a necessary requirement for salvation. However, Scripture does not contradict Scripture. If the Bible says that salvation is received by faith, with no other requirement (and it says that numerous times), then there is nothing else that can be added as a requirement for salvation with making God's Word contradict itself. The Bible verses that clearly link salvation and baptism do so because baptism identifies conversion; it is the declaration that salvation has occurred. The idea of an un-baptized believer was anathema to the New Testament writers. If a person claimed to believe in Christ, but was ashamed to proclaim that faith in public, it would be an indication that the person's faith was not genuine.
Baptism is not necessary for salvation. Baptism is an important step of obedience that every Christian should take. Baptism is a public declaration of faith in Christ. Baptism is an identification of an old life dying with Christ and a new life being resurrected as a new creation (1 Corinthians 5:17). So, while baptism is very important, it is not a requirement for salvation. To make baptism a requirement for salvation is an attack on the perfection and sufficiency of God's provision of salvation through Jesus Christ.
<quoted text>
Really? Provide Biblical proof. Was Abraham baptized? Was Moses baptized? Was Peter baptized? Was John? Were any of the original 12 apostles baptized? If so, who? Proof required. Biblical proof only. Not tradition, not here say, not conjecture. PROOF!
I guess I'd say I need proof that Abraham and Moses were Christian.

Great question there. Really great.

Christendom taught the necessity of and salvific nature of Baptism until the Reformation.

Since: Apr 07

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#454240
Jun 19, 2013
 
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Self.
It all begins and ends with you.
Church of Oprah, right?

No, New Age, peace of heart and mind, and salvation, start WITH JESUS. He always, always put God His Father and us ahead of Himself, setting the example for us.
__________

John 10:17 [Jesus said] "The reason My Father loves Me is that I lay down My life—only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. THIS COMMAND I RECEIVED FROM MY FATHER.”

...24 The Jews...gathered around Him, saying,“How long will You keep us in suspense? If You are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”

25 Jesus answered,“I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in My Father’s name testify about Me...27 My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. 28 I give them eternal life...no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 MY FATHER, WHO HAS GIVEN THEM TO ME, IS GREATER THAN ALL; no one can snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE.”

***

John 13:12 When [Jesus] had finished washing their feet, He...returned to His place.“Do you understand what I have done for you?” He asked them. 13 “You call Me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you."

***

John 14:31 [Jesus said} I love the Father and do exactly what My Father has commanded Me.

***

Revelation 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God,“who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

***

Revelation 1:17 When I saw Him,...He placed His right hand on me and said:“Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades."

***

Revelation 21:5 He who was seated on the throne said,“I am making everything new!” Then He said,“Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

6 He said to me:“It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be My children."

________

You see, New Age, we must put Jesus first, because HE put US first. Besides, if you don't put Christ first in your life, it means just one thing: He's not very important to you.

There's lots of "Christians" like that, people who are Christians only on Sundays while they're at church, etc. Anyone who really loves Jesus is a Christian 24/7.
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

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#454241
Jun 19, 2013
 
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~
Your idolatry, WILLFUL SIN, blatant disobedience to GOD'S WORD,..
.and other pagan practices will be measured by the
standard of God's word...
All other things, you do... that God has
forbidden... will be subject to be accounted for, when you stand before
God in judgment...
You, Confrinting are not the "final judge" of my Salvation, never have been or never will be. Your condemning ministry has no credibility in the eyes of God and that is biblical!!!!
I/we as Catholics will continue to rely on our personal relationship with Jesus Christ, at daily Mass and the Eucharist (HIS TRUE body and blood)in and through HIS One True Catholic Church and remain with the God Our Fathers as OUR final judge. HE knows our hearts, HE knows that our personal faith and Salvation is in HIS Son Jesus Christ and HE also that your "distorted personal opinions" have no validity when it comes to these "ridiculous claims" of idol worship, and so-called "disobedience to Gods word" that comes out of your "condemning and judgemental bible only (editorializing) ministry. Try reading the testamonies of the "hundreds and hundreds" of Protestant ministers that have converted to the TRUE GOSPEL of Jesus Christ in the Catholic Church--beginning with Scott Hahn. You might "just possibly" learn something about Christianity!!

Since: Jun 10

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#454242
Jun 19, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
I gave you the Greek here.
It means what it means. You don't get to decide what Greek means on your own.
Sorry.
You gave me the Greek here??? It your dream!!!!
In this verse...from your NABre..pope approved Bible...show me the word that was translated from Greek, that is defined as "full of Grace"...
OldJG

Rockford, IL

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#454243
Jun 19, 2013
 
quoted text>
Hey boy, you gonna answer the questions? Jesus said water baptism is necessary for what? How many did Jesus baptize?
<quoted text>
Hey boy, you did not respond because if you did we all would know your answer. So boy, I will ask again and again until you answer.
1. Jesus said water baptism is necessary for what? Give us a Bible verse or two if you would please.
2. How many did Jesus baptize? How many??????
<quoted text>
You said, quote, "Someone's feelings get hurt when I pointed out your Luther/Catechism debacle?" End quote.
Luther/Roman Catholic/Catechism.......
I said, quote, "Same BS just a different Roman Catholic author." End quote.
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Other than it's not the same, you're right on.
Do you start 7th or 8th Grade next fall?
Actually 8th., which is three grades ahead of you. Your fifth right? Or did you say you drink booze by the fifth?

Born of water.......natural child birth

Born of the Spirit.... super natural being born AGAIN as in AGAIN as in another birth...the second birth....the one after the first birth. Being born AGAIN. Do you need pictures? Unfortunately we are not able to show pictures but it would help you because your comprehension level for reading is so terribly low. Fifth, right? LOL

Since: Jun 10

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#454244
Jun 19, 2013
 
...oops

28And coming to her, he said,“Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#454245
Jun 19, 2013
 
Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>
Show Scripture that says she was an exception...you can't...because she was a sinner...she was thankful for her Savior..per Scripture...sinless people do not need a Savior...
My bet stands...you will play your "tradition" card...to trump Scripture.....that is what I call trashing the Bible...
And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
I responded already RE: her being an exception. Even gave you the Greek.

Mary was "saved" from sin in a different manner. She was given the grace to be "saved" completely from sin so that she never committed even the slightest transgression. Scripture indicates that salvation can also refer to man being protected from sinning before the fact.

'Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you without blemish before the presence of his glory with rejoicing, to the only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and for ever.(Jude 24-25)'

thanks
OldJG

Rockford, IL

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#454246
Jun 19, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you think the water's for?
The "water" here doesn't refer to childbirth.
"Unless one is born, then born of the spirit....."
How would one BE born of the spirit unless they'd been born in the first place?
Just goes to show you the lengths people will go to waterboard the Bible trying to explain why they don't believe Jesus.
Sad.
What is the water for? Duh. The water here does not refer to child birth. Really? How could it be referring to baptism when baptism had not yet been initiated? Baptism began with Jesus baptism for Christians. So please explain about the water being for something that did not exist as yet. Come on man, your a Roman Catholic, right? Well make up something then. You know, like your popes do. LOL LOL LOL

Since: Apr 07

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#454247
Jun 19, 2013
 

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LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL not all Jethro, but their are a few in each group.
My cat is not doing well, I have to put her down.
she has lost use of her back legs.
I hate this .
Oh, LTM, I am so very sorry. I've had to make that painful decision. You know you're going to miss your sweetie, but of course you can't allow her to suffer.

I am convinced our beloved pets WILL be with us in heaven, LTM. In the meantime, my sincerest sympathies to you.
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#454248
Jun 19, 2013
 
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the water for? Duh. The water here does not refer to child birth. Really? How could it be referring to baptism when baptism had not yet been initiated? Baptism began with Jesus baptism for Christians. So please explain about the water being for something that did not exist as yet. Come on man, your a Roman Catholic, right? Well make up something then. You know, like your popes do. LOL LOL LOL
Um, Jesus was baptized.

Luke 3:21-22

Miss that?
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#454249
Jun 19, 2013
 
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the water for? Duh. The water here does not refer to child birth. Really? How could it be referring to baptism when baptism had not yet been initiated? Baptism began with Jesus baptism for Christians. So please explain about the water being for something that did not exist as yet. Come on man, your a Roman Catholic, right? Well make up something then. You know, like your popes do. LOL LOL LOL
Luke 3:21-22

Still laughing?

I am.
truth

Perth, Australia

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#454250
Jun 19, 2013
 
deceiver is deceiver
why?
they pray thy kingdom come how in heaven have to be on earth..
now explain who posses kingdom..deceiver..
why you pray for kingdom where deceiver know everything..

i told you
you stay in circle where evil is evillllllllllllllll
you reject real Creator spit every day over your real creator
you stay in evil circle
truth

Perth, Australia

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#454251
Jun 19, 2013
 
sin go first in then out of person..in both direction
evil is evil..perfection which Lucifer watching but fall..
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#454252
Jun 19, 2013
 
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the water for? Duh. The water here does not refer to child birth. Really? How could it be referring to baptism when baptism had not yet been initiated? Baptism began with Jesus baptism for Christians. So please explain about the water being for something that did not exist as yet. Come on man, your a Roman Catholic, right? Well make up something then. You know, like your popes do. LOL LOL LOL
Does "JG" stand for "just goofy"?
truth

Perth, Australia

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#454253
Jun 19, 2013
 
they told you sinners of Adam and Eva its going trough your ancestors..

Since: Jun 10

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#454254
Jun 19, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
I responded already RE: her being an exception. Even gave you the Greek.
Mary was "saved" from sin in a different manner. She was given the grace to be "saved" completely from sin so that she never committed even the slightest transgression. Scripture indicates that salvation can also refer to man being protected from sinning before the fact.
'Now to him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you without blemish before the presence of his glory with rejoicing, to the only God, our Savior through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and for ever.(Jude 24-25)'
thanks
That is what is being regurgitated by the vatacan, and you have swallowed it and said "That was tasty"...it is not based on Scripture...

Show Scripture that says she was an exception...you can't...because she was a sinner...she was thankful for her Savior..per Scripture...sinless people do not need a Savior...

My bet stands...you will play your "tradition" card...to trump Scripture.....that is what I call trashing the Bible...

And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

BTW...Jude 1:24-25 has nothing to do with Mary!!!!!

Dan

Omaha, NE

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#454255
Jun 19, 2013
 
Oxbow wrote:
<quoted text>
That is what is being regurgitated by the vatacan, and you have swallowed it and said "That was tasty"...it is not based on Scripture...
Show Scripture that says she was an exception...you can't...because she was a sinner...she was thankful for her Savior..per Scripture...sinless people do not need a Savior...
My bet stands...you will play your "tradition" card...to trump Scripture.....that is what I call trashing the Bible...
And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
BTW...Jude 1:24-25 has nothing to do with Mary!!!!!
Luke 1:28 indicates that she was an exception. Again, for the third time, you even got the Greek on it.

It's there. Your agreement with it doesn't determine whether it's in there or not.

Jude 1 24:25 is a doxology. It's not specific to anyone, and applies to everyone. Again, it's in scripture, and it doesn't require your approval for it to be scriptural.

So, to recap, my points have been fortified by scripture, with your response being "it's not there" when it IS, and "it doesn't mean that" when you aren't in position to tell me nor anyone else what scripture means.

I'll take the point here.

Thanks
Orville

Vancouver, WA

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#454256
Jun 19, 2013
 
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
Peter was not the exclusive recipient of the Keys...
all the disciples ( students of Jesus) with the apostles received THE
SAME KEYS..
WHY IS IT THAT ONLY PETER... HAS BEEN SINGLED OUT...
BY THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH .
DID JESUS LIE WHEN SAID TO ALL HIS DISCIPLES?
Joh 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Joh 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Joh 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
NOTE
Joh 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
AMEN, Good points. The truth,
Dan

Omaha, NE

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#454257
Jun 19, 2013
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Orville wrote:
<quoted text>AMEN, Good points. The truth,
It's nonsense.

Why "AMEN" something that's not correct?

He gave Peter the keys. Only Peter.

Says it right there.

16 Simon Peter answered,“You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied,“Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter,[b] and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades[c] will not overcome it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.”

English IS your primary language, I assume.

Since: Jan 08

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#454258
Jun 19, 2013
 
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Um, Jesus was baptized.
Luke 3:21-22
Miss that?
you miss what that Baptism of Johns was for. it never made them a Christian since Jesus had not died yet.

read what John said about his Baptism and learn something.

anyway, every person saved in the NT was given the Holy Ghost before they were baptised in water.

the men of epheus were just like you Dan and all catholics, they were baptised yet no knew nothing about the Holy Ghost.

feel free to change what God has given us through His Word, if you dare. I DONT!!

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