Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 646306 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Just Sayin

Clarksville, TN

#439837 May 11, 2013
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
What misinformation are you speaking about?
your entire post was tossed word salad. Almost as bad as June's are.
Human Being

Breaux Bridge, LA

#439838 May 11, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
Theologians made it up as they went along their paths of ignorance, bragging all the while about their own knowledge of future events.
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>
The English noun "Gnosticism"The term "Gnosticism" does not appear in ancient sources
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism#The_t ...
June:

Gnosticism has been around a long time, just as T-Tauri type stars. Just because English hasn't been around doesn't negate Gnosticism's existence.
Michael

Canada

#439839 May 11, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Modern day "suicides" linked directly to political non-religious "materalistic liberalism" has resulted in over 8 times the mental illness suicide rate, compared to those with religious affilication, spiritual convictions and person faith in Gods divine Providence..... It is "no wonder" that in the United States today liberalism is considered to be a "Mental disorder"!!
I can't speak for anyone but suicide is not in my forte. Just so you know.

...Why are roman catholic priests dying of AIDS related illnesses 4 times the national rate of men? Isn't this the same catholic church that condemns homosexuality as a grave sin?

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story...

http://kcsweb.kcstar.com/projects/priests/

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread834...

http://www.dignityusa.org/content/priests-aid...
Michael

Canada

#439840 May 11, 2013
Human Being wrote:
<quoted text>
June VanDerMark:
Always a good fall-back opinion.
You seem to do a lot of preaching to the religious people on this thread yourself.
So tell me, "Why is God an Atheist", in your opinion?
What religion is God? God has no religion..........religions are all man made.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#439841 May 11, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you know how many times I have heard "Jesus drank wine."
Even among Christian that I have sat next to in church.
They say they read the Bible,
The bible says No drunks will enter the Kingdom of God.
I guess they don't put that together with what God says about drinking in the O.T.
To use Our Lord and Savior, as their example to drink irks me to no end.
I see your wife is back on its great to see her posts.
she has so much wisdom.
Here's what your favorite website says;

Question: "What does the Bible say about drinking alcohol / wine? Is it a sin for a Christian to drink alcohol / wine?"

Answer: Scripture has much to say regarding the drinking of alcohol (Leviticus 10:9; Numbers 6:3; Deuteronomy 29:6; Judges 13:4, 7, 14; Proverbs 20:1; 31:4; Isaiah 5:11, 22; 24:9; 28:7; 29:9; 56:12). However, Scripture does not necessarily forbid a Christian from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. In fact, some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs,“Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages,“Yes, come buy wine and milk…”

What God commands Christians regarding alcohol is to avoid drunkenness (Ephesians 5:18). The Bible condemns drunkenness and its effects (Proverbs 23:29-35). Christians are also commanded to not allow their bodies to be “mastered” by anything (1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Drinking alcohol in excess is undeniably addictive. Scripture also forbids a Christian from doing anything that might offend other Christians or encourage them to sin against their conscience (1 Corinthians 8:9-13). In light of these principles, it would be extremely difficult for any Christian to say he is drinking alcohol in excess to the glory of God (1 Corinthians 10:31).

Jesus changed water into wine. It even seems that Jesus drank wine on occasion (John 2:1-11; Matthew 26:29). In New Testament times, the water was not very clean. Without modern sanitation, the water was often filled with bacteria, viruses, and all kinds of contaminants. The same is true in many third-world countries today. As a result, people often drank wine (or grape juice) because it was far less likely to be contaminated. In 1 Timothy 5:23, Paul was instructing Timothy to stop drinking the water (which was probably causing his stomach problems) and instead drink wine. In that day, wine was fermented (containing alcohol), but not necessarily to the degree it is today. It is incorrect to say that it was grape juice, but it is also incorrect to say that it was the same thing as the wine commonly used today. Again, Scripture does not forbid Christians from drinking beer, wine, or any other drink containing alcohol. Alcohol is not, in and of itself, tainted by sin. It is drunkenness and addiction to alcohol that a Christian must absolutely refrain from (Ephesians 5:18; 1 Corinthians 6:12).

Alcohol, consumed in small quantities, is neither harmful nor addictive. In fact, some doctors advocate drinking small amounts of red wine for its health benefits, especially for the heart. Consumption of small quantities of alcohol is a matter of Christian freedom. Drunkenness and addiction are sin. However, due to the biblical concerns regarding alcohol and its effects, due to the easy temptation to consume alcohol in excess, and due to the possibility of causing offense and/or stumbling of others, it is often best for a Christian to abstain from drinking alcohol.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/sin-alcohol.html#...

LTM, you are now stuck with the bible AND your favorite website saying you're wrong.
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#439842 May 11, 2013
June VanDerMark wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>
Religious Insanity in America: The Official Nineteenth-Century Theory
The Official Nineteenth-Century ----THEORY!!!!

This reference of yours June, is the just another one of the same old "cock-n-bull" assortment of anti-Catholic/Christian references that you "dig up" in order to "appease your vindictive arragonce and hostility against Jesus Christ and His One True Catholic Church.---- THEORY, OPINION, EDITORIALIZING, VIEW, JUDGEMENT, SENTIMENT, PERSONAL FEELING, SUPPOSITION,--- its ALL the same!!
The fact is that you, June, just "compile" and gather a "cherry picked" selection of personal opinionate authors and writers that parallel your disgruntled opinion of Jesus Christs One True Catholic Church, and then "throw it out" and see if something sticks!!---Just editiorializing from one posted comment to another!! You, June, can believe what you want!!! I/We as Catholics on this forum as well as those 1.168+ billion Catholics around the world will CONTINUE to adhere, abide, worship and remain with the TRUTH of Jesus Christ and over 2000 years of our Lords One TRUE Apstolic Catholic Church. You, my friend--"can do what you want"!!!
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#439843 May 11, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess they don't put that together with what God says about drinking in the O.T.
To use Our Lord and Savior, as their example to drink irks me to no end.
.
More inconvenient truth from LTM's favorite website...

Question: "Did Jesus change the water into wine or grape juice?"

Answer: John chapter 2 records Jesus performing a miracle at a wedding in Cana of Galilee. At the wedding, the hosts ran out of wine. Jesus' mother, Mary, asks Jesus to intervene, and He does so, reluctantly. Jesus has the servants bring six jars filled with water and then instructs the servants to give it to the overseer of the celebration. The water miraculously turns into wine, and the overseer declares that it was the best wine he had ever tasted. In this account, Jesus performed an amazing miracle, actually altering the molecular composition of the water, changing it into wine. The point of the account is summarized in John 2:11, "He thus revealed His glory, and His disciples put their faith in Him." Usually, though, when this passage is studied, a side issue becomes the main issue. Did Jesus transform the water into wine (fermented, alcoholic) or into grape juice (non-alcoholic)?

Throughout the passage, the Greek word translated "wine" is oinos, which was the common Greek word for normal wine, wine that was fermented/alcoholic. The Greek word for the wine Jesus created is the same word for the wine the wedding feast ran out of. The Greek word for the wine Jesus created is also the same word that is used in Ephesians 5:18, "...do not get drunk on wine..." Obviously, getting drunk from drinking wine requires the presence of alcohol. Everything, from the context of a wedding feast, to the usage of oinos in 1st century Greek literature (in the New Testament and outside the New Testament), argues for the wine that Jesus created to be normal, ordinary wine, containing alcohol. There is simply no solid historical, cultural, exegetical, contextual, or lexical reason to understand it to have been grape juice.
Those who oppose the drinking of alcohol, in any quantity, argue that Jesus would not have turned the water into wine, as He would have been promoting the consumption of a substance that is tainted by sin. In this understanding, alcohol itself is inherently sinful, and consumption of alcohol in any quantity is sin. That is not a biblical understanding, however. Some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs,“Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages,“Yes, come buy wine and milk…” From these and other Scriptures, it is clear that alcohol itself is not inherently sinful. Rather, it is the abuse of alcohol, drunkenness and/or addiction, that is sinful (Ephesians 5:18; Proverbs 23:29-35; 1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Therefore, it would not have been a sin for Jesus to create a drink that contained alcohol.

cont.
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#439844 May 11, 2013
cont. inconvenient truth for LTM

A second, related argument is that by creating alcoholic wine, Jesus would have been promoting drunkenness, which the Bible clear identifies as sinful. This is not a valid argument. Was Jesus promoting gluttony when He multiplied the fishes and loaves far beyond what the people needed? Of course not. Creating a substance that can be abused does not make one responsible when another person foolishly chooses to abuse it. Jesus creating alcoholic wine was in no sense encouraging drunkenness.
The belief that Jesus created alcoholic wine is definitely more in agreement with the context and the definition/usage of oinos. The primary reasons for interpreting it as grape juice, that alcohol is inherently sinful or that the creation of alcohol would have been encouraging drunkenness, are unbiblical and invalid. There is simply no good biblical reason to understand John 2 as anything other than Jesus performing an amazing miracle by turning water into real wine. Is drunkenness sinful? Absolutely! Is addiction sinful? Definitely. Would Jesus turning the water into alcoholic wine in any way violate God's standards regarding the consumption of alcohol? Absolutely not!

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-water-wine....
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#439845 May 11, 2013
Just Sayin wrote:
<quoted text>
Logic says you are so full of sh!t.
Good call.
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#439846 May 11, 2013
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
What religion is God? God has no religion..........religions are all man made.
Amen Michael
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#439847 May 11, 2013
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
More inconvenient truth from LTM's favorite website...
Question: "Did Jesus change the water into wine or grape juice?"
Answer: John chapter 2 records Jesus performing a miracle at a wedding in Cana of Galilee. At the wedding, the hosts ran out of wine. Jesus' mother, Mary, asks Jesus to intervene, and He does so, reluctantly. Jesus has the servants bring six jars filled with water and then instructs the servants to give it to the overseer of the celebration. The water miraculously turns into wine, and the overseer declares that it was the best wine he had ever tasted. In this account, Jesus performed an amazing miracle, actually altering the molecular composition of the water, changing it into wine. The point of the account is summarized in John 2:11, "He thus revealed His glory, and His disciples put their faith in Him." Usually, though, when this passage is studied, a side issue becomes the main issue. Did Jesus transform the water into wine (fermented, alcoholic) or into grape juice (non-alcoholic)?
Throughout the passage, the Greek word translated "wine" is oinos, which was the common Greek word for normal wine, wine that was fermented/alcoholic. The Greek word for the wine Jesus created is the same word for the wine the wedding feast ran out of. The Greek word for the wine Jesus created is also the same word that is used in Ephesians 5:18, "...do not get drunk on wine..." Obviously, getting drunk from drinking wine requires the presence of alcohol. Everything, from the context of a wedding feast, to the usage of oinos in 1st century Greek literature (in the New Testament and outside the New Testament), argues for the wine that Jesus created to be normal, ordinary wine, containing alcohol. There is simply no solid historical, cultural, exegetical, contextual, or lexical reason to understand it to have been grape juice.
Those who oppose the drinking of alcohol, in any quantity, argue that Jesus would not have turned the water into wine, as He would have been promoting the consumption of a substance that is tainted by sin. In this understanding, alcohol itself is inherently sinful, and consumption of alcohol in any quantity is sin. That is not a biblical understanding, however. Some Scriptures discuss alcohol in positive terms. Ecclesiastes 9:7 instructs,“Drink your wine with a merry heart.” Psalm 104:14-15 states that God gives wine “that makes glad the heart of men.” Amos 9:14 discusses drinking wine from your own vineyard as a sign of God’s blessing. Isaiah 55:1 encourages,“Yes, come buy wine and milk…” From these and other Scriptures, it is clear that alcohol itself is not inherently sinful. Rather, it is the abuse of alcohol, drunkenness and/or addiction, that is sinful (Ephesians 5:18; Proverbs 23:29-35; 1 Corinthians 6:12; 2 Peter 2:19). Therefore, it would not have been a sin for Jesus to create a drink that contained alcohol.
cont.
I do not agree with this Anthony that is why I didn't post it.
It is wrong.
Drinking a sinful substains like alcohol is wrong. And Jesus would not have drank it.
You can not believe one part of the bible and not another.
God warn Noah not to get drunk on the fruit of the vine.
The new wine is wine that has not been fermented (left to rot)
To disgust this any longer with you or Dan is fruit less you common sense does not prevail.
To get up and take communion from a priest that is intoxicated,(drunk) which I have seen some tipsy Priest all red face and very flushed is not bringing glory to God.
Catholic's believe that wine is the blood of Jesus, I can assure you Jesus' blood was not full of alcohol.
Regina

Lakewood, NJ

#439848 May 11, 2013
Just Sayin wrote:
<quoted text>
What is with your obsession with alcoholism? Are you trying to make some kind of confession? Drink up buddy. That's all you got left to do in your life, that and bash the CC. So sad for you.
You are grasping desperately, pathetically at straws, dude!
LOL.....
Clay

Lawrence, MA

#439849 May 11, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not agree with this Anthony that is why I didn't post it.
It is wrong.
Drinking a sinful substains like alcohol is wrong. And Jesus would not have drank it.
You can not believe one part of the bible and not another.
God warn Noah not to get drunk on the fruit of the vine.
The new wine is wine that has not been fermented (left to rot)
To disgust this any longer with you or Dan is fruit less you common sense does not prevail.
To get up and take communion from a priest that is intoxicated,(drunk) which I have seen some tipsy Priest all red face and very flushed is not bringing glory to God.
Catholic's believe that wine is the blood of Jesus, I can assure you Jesus' blood was not full of alcohol.
LTM, you've been proven wrong. Undeniably, unequivocally, irrefutablly, without question, wrong. Why on Earth would you act like you still have a case?
Sometimes I don't think you guys are really sola scripturist..
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#439850 May 11, 2013
LTM wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not agree with this Anthony that is why I didn't post it.
It is wrong.
Drinking a sinful substains like alcohol is wrong. And Jesus would not have drank it.
You can not believe one part of the bible and not another.
God warn Noah not to get drunk on the fruit of the vine.
The new wine is wine that has not been fermented (left to rot)
To disgust this any longer with you or Dan is fruit less you common sense does not prevail.
To get up and take communion from a priest that is intoxicated,(drunk) which I have seen some tipsy Priest all red face and very flushed is not bringing glory to God.
Catholic's believe that wine is the blood of Jesus, I can assure you Jesus' blood was not full of alcohol.
Always taking the pot shots at priests LTM. You are wrong. And gotquestions.org , your favorite website says you're wrong.

"Those who oppose the drinking of alcohol, in any quantity, argue that Jesus would not have turned the water into wine, as He would have been promoting the consumption of a substance that is tainted by sin. In this understanding, alcohol itself is inherently sinful, and consumption of alcohol in any quantity is sin. That is not a biblical understanding, however. "

"The belief that Jesus created alcoholic wine is definitely more in agreement with the context and the definition/usage of oinos. The primary reasons for interpreting it as grape juice, that alcohol is inherently sinful or that the creation of alcohol would have been encouraging drunkenness, are unbiblical and invalid. There is simply no good biblical reason to understand John 2 as anything other than Jesus performing an amazing miracle by turning water into real wine. Is drunkenness sinful? Absolutely! Is addiction sinful? Definitely. Would Jesus turning the water into alcoholic wine in any way violate God's standards regarding the consumption of alcohol? Absolutely not!"

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-water-wine....
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#439851 May 11, 2013
The word wine in the Bible is a generic term; sometimes it means grape juice; sometimes it means alcoholic beverages. The following verses prove that the word “wine” can mean fresh grape juice, the fruit of the vine: De. 11:14; 2 Ch. 31:5; Ne. 13:15; Pr. 3:10; Is. 16:10; 65:8; 1 Ti. 5:23.

2. The context will always show when “wine” refers to alcoholic beverages. In such cases, God discusses the bad effects of it and warns against it. An example would be Gen. 9, Noah’s experience after the Flood. Verse 21,“and he drank of the wine, and was drunken,” clearly refers to alcoholic beverage. Prov. 20:1 speaks of the same thing when it warns us,“Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging; and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.” Alcoholic wine is deceptive; but how? In the very way that people are advocating today, by saying that drinking a little bit will not hurt. Everyone admits that drinking too much is bad; even the liquor companies tell us not to drive and drink, but they insist that a small amount is all right. However, that is the very thing that is deceptive. Who knows how little to drink? Experts tell us that each person is different. It takes an ounce to affect one, while more is necessary for another. The same person will react to alcohol differently, depending on the amount of food he has had, among other things. So, the idea that “a little bit won’t hurt” is deceptive, and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise!

Prov. 23:30-31 refers to alcoholic wine, because it tells us in the previous verse that those who drink it have woe, sorrow, contentions, babbling, wounds without cause, and redness of eyes. What a graphic description of those who “tarry long” at alcoholism. Verses 32-35 continue the same description; context always makes it clear when alcohol is meant.

cont
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#439852 May 11, 2013
Scripture warns against the drinking of alcoholic wine. The Bible is consistent on this, both in the Old and New Testaments. The two previously quoted passages, Pr. 20:1 and 23:29-35, are good examples of scriptural warnings against consuming alcohol. Pr. 23:32 says “at the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.” Verse 33 shows that it will cause one to look at strange women (that is, not one’s wife) and to say perverse things, or things which he would not say if he were sober. Verse 34 predicts that it will cause death, such as drowning, or loneliness, such as lying upon the top of a mast. Verse 35 warns against numbness (“they have beaten me and I felt it not”) and “addiction (“when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again”).

Prov. 31:4-5 teaches,“It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: lest they drink and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.” The danger is obvious.

By the way, Prov. 31:6,7 give us the only legitimate use of alcoholic wine in Scripture.“Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.” This would be using it as an anesthetic; a painkiller. But this is not for everyone; he says in v. 6,“unto him that is ready to perish.” Of course, they did not have all the painkillers that we have today. In our time, it would not be necessary to do this. We have many anesthetics available for those who are dying. Then, about the only thing available to the average person would have been some kind of alcohol. Alcohol is a depressant; it is not a stimulant, as some think. After several drinks, one gets dizzy; then he will pass out. So this passage teaches that alcoholic beverage would be only for the person who is ready to die; there would be no hope for his life. All that would be possible would be to ease his pain and help him forget his misery.
cont
Clay

Lawrence, MA

#439853 May 11, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually you never answered other than admitting you didn't have an answer correct?
Chuckle? You bet. I am happy all the time. I am assured of my salvation. How about you? How can you ever be happy never knowing if you are headed for heaven or hell? Just hoping you are good enough would have to make a person a nervous wreck.
Great verse.....
I John 5:13, "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life."
"I am assured of my salvation. How about you"

That explains why you're an arrogant prick. You think you're going to Heaven because you said 'Lord, Lord' and did an alter call.

Jesus said "He who endures til the end, shall be saved" (Matthew 24:13)
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#439854 May 11, 2013
.” Everyone knows that when one gives himself to the drinking of alcoholic beverage, he will not be more spiritual, more desirous of learning the Word of God. To the contrary, it causes a person to ignore the Lord. Verses 13-14 reveal two other serious results: people go into captivity (become slaves to something or someone) and Hell enlarges itself! The drinking of alcoholic wine has caused Hell to be enlarged! God does not want anyone to go to Hell; He has given the greatest, dearest gift that He possibly could, to rescue sinners from it. He never made Hell for people. The Lord Jesus Christ said that Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels (Mt. 25:41). However, because of evil alcohol, Hell has had an enlargement campaign. Here, then, is a clear warning against drinking alcohol, because God does not want anyone to go to Hell.

Isa. 28:7,8 continues the warning.“But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment. For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.”

What a tragic thing, that even in the days of Isaiah, the priests and prophets were engaged in the drinking of alcoholic wine! Thus we see that the problem of preachers recommending alcohol is not new. Six hundred years before Christ, demon alcohol had worked its way into religion.
Michael

Canada

#439855 May 11, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
"I am assured of my salvation. How about you"
That explains why you're an arrogant prick. You think you're going to Heaven because you said 'Lord, Lord' and did an alter call.
Jesus said "He who endures til the end, shall be saved" (Matthew 24:13)
CLAYPOOL says.........I am assured of my salvation. How about you

MICHAEL says.....So! You have stopped being a sinner have you?(lol)

I am glad you have already pre-judged yourself. No need for Jesus to come back and judge you. You already did his job. Congratulations!

....next!!!
LTM

Marathon, Canada

#439856 May 11, 2013
The making of alcoholic beverages is not a strictly natural process. Sometimes people try to defend its use by saying that it must be good because God made it. But, the fact is, God did not make it. Man has learned how to make alcoholic liquors through processes that he has invented. Wine-makers know that one must have the correct amount of water, sugar, and temperature to make wine. Keeping grape juice in a refrigerator would prevent if from fermenting, because the temperature is not right. Likewise, hot, tropical temperature would prevent fermentation.

In ancient days, before we had refrigeration and vacuum-sealing ability, people learned to preserve the juice of the grape without turning it into alcoholic wine. Many people boiled it down into thick syrup. By doing so, they could preserve it for long periods of time. When they got ready to drink it, they would simply add the water to the consistency desired, in much the same way that we take frozen concentrates and add water. In Bible days, contrary to what many believe, it was not necessary for everyone to drink alcoholic wine as a table beverage.

Natural processes alone will produce fermentation under certain conditions, but these natural processes, if unaided by man, rapidly move to a vinegar state. The alcoholic beverages industry is very much a man-made thing.
Its not of God

Jesus did not make or drank an alcoholic wine.

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