Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 568,181
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431915 Apr 10, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
They "cannot stop" Catholic bashing because their "entire bible only man-made religion" is predicated and based upon attacking, condemning and passing their Protestant(personal opinionated) judgment" against Jesus Christ HIMSELF and His One True Catholic Church..... Sola Scriptura "cannot exist" (on its own) without Protestant "verbal abuse" against the faith of other Christians--especially Catholics.... As a former bible only Protestant, it was the "major focus and emphasis" of our "so-called" Christian faith......Every "bible only fundamentalist" on this forum (Confrinting, Orville, 4GVN, justachristian, jethro8, LTM, PAD, Marge, and those that I missed--have PROVEN this to be true, over and over and over again with "every post" including the Agnostics and Atheists who make comments.
So does that mean you give up? Don't get frustrated, just keep at it. Our Lord had to deal with the Pharisees. And as I've posted previously, why do so few Catholics and Americans know about what the pope's have declared about the social problems of our day, like socialism and other great evils?

You real problem is too many Catholics don't believe in Catholicism, so many non-Catholics will stay away.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431917 Apr 10, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
I appreciate your input. Dialogue is becoming more and more fruitful between Protestants and Catholics.
What do the Baptist want? The SBC is darn near a mini Catholic Church. Do they seek some kind of merger or dual catholic/Baptist faith? That's a tricky scenario. The CC would say to anyone,(including the Orthodox) you're either in communion with the Bishop of Rome or not. That's a huge problem for many, but it can't be any different, because we're talking about truth- which can't be compromised. I don't know what the future holds. But these two facts are interesting: Many Catholics are leaving the Church due to cultural influence and secularism among other reasons. But many Protestants are replacing them by becoming Catholic. The new converts have a deep love for Christ; a zeal for the scriptures and bring a new kind of vibe into the Church.
The result in about 20 yrs, is a Holier Catholic Church, as the half hearted Catholics are replaced by serious Christians from the Evangelical camp.
Those who remain Protestant, will be the kind neither side needs. Stubborn and ignorant. I'm wondering if Christ is setting up His return, gathering the seeds for the final spiritual battle. He's giving current Catholics an ultimatum. I see it in how my own family is being split. Certain ones are drawn to the secular materialistic world. Others are becoming stronger Catholics and complete opposite of their siblings. This is alarming as Christ said He didn't come to unite families but divide them.
Anyway, its nice to hear from a potential convert. Was it the internet debate forums, like this one, that drew you towards Catholicism?
Not that I know of. Baptists still think they are right in general. I was just fortunate enough to learn both sides before I bought into any of the prejudices, so my outlook is different.

No, it was good Catholics that took the time to explain the facts, and understood their faith, that helped me. But ironically, I was mostly agnostic, but appreciated and saw merit in the Christian culture that affected history in a positive way. Most atheists think religion, and specifically Christianity, has done more harm than good. So, I set out to prove them wrong years ago, and found myself defending Christianity in general as the facts became evident.

It took a tragedy in my family to convert me. But it was was history and science itself that nailed me to Jesus once and for all. Oh, and CS Lewis, I have to give him credit, he really knows how to simply the faith in Mere Christianity in a way that non-Christians can comprehend.

But otherwise, I agree with you, I see things changing, something is happening. The false Christians will be purged from both sides, and when the dust has settled I pray the one true Church will be united once more.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431918 Apr 10, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
You wrote
The Catholic Church came before one line of the NT was written down. You can read some of the historical account in the Book of Acts. But not all of the details of the CC will be spelled out in Scripture.
But all of the teachings are somehow seen in the 73 Books that make up the Bible.
~~~
Either produce them ...GIVE EVIDENCE or STOP WASTING MY TIME...
I CONTEND THAT ALL YOU ARE DOING IS BLOWING SMOKE...THAT YOU REALLY
HAVE NO PROOF...AND THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT ISSUE
THAT DECIDES THE ETERNAL DESTINY OF MY SOUL...
( IF YOU COME UP WITH SOMEONES ALLEGED HEARSAY ...THAT PROVES NOTHING...)
I have given you books chapters and verses ....to witness, and
validate what I have written.
THE ONLY WITNESSES ACCEPTABLE from you IS BOOKS CHAPTERS AND VERSES...
IF YOU CAN'T PRODUCE THEM, I AINT BUYING IT.
Jesus said..
Joh_8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Joh_8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
I am free in the truth.. A joint heir with Christ...a fellow
citizen of the saints of the household of God.
I refuse to be involves in your divided loyalties.
Eph_2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
I refuse to bring my self under the servitude to/OF an earthly dynasty...in ROME ITALY
I don't understand. Every Theologian, Catholic or Evangelical, knows that the Church existed before the NT was put together. The Council of Nicea is well attested, and the hard work by many to choose which books remained, and which did not, is well known on both sides.

Christianity, for 300 years, was bound together by oral tradition and a scattering many books, but no Bible. So how can one prove that is not the case? The Christians never declared the Bible to be the sole source of the word of Christ. The Bible itself does not declare itself the sole authority. And no one, not even the pope, and claim to understand the Bible in full, that is what the Church and fellowship is for, to help us understand.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431919 Apr 10, 2013
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, you are just an ignorant Baptist then. The Old Testament was written by Jews and the New Testament was written by Jews with the exception of Luke and Acts which were written by Dr. Luke, a gentile. You need to check your history. The ROMAN CATHOLIC cult or any of it's members did not write one word of the Bible. Not one.
Finally, the word "catholic", small "c" was and is the word for the UNIVERSAL church not the ROMAN CATHOLIC cult. The ROMAN CATHOLIC cult began with Constantine. Ever heard of him?
Marks of the New Testament church are revealed in
1. Its Head and Founder--CHRIST. He is the law-giver; the Church is only the executive.(Matthew 16:18; Colossians 1:18)
2. Its only rule of faith and practice--THE BIBLE.
(II Timothy 3:15-17)
3. Its name--"CHURCH," "CHURCHES."
(Matthew 16:18; Revelation 22:16)
4. Its polity--CONGREGATIONAL--all members equal.
(Matthew 20:24-28; Matthew 23:5-12)
5. Its members--only saved people.(Ephesians 2:21; I Peter 2:5)
6. Its ordinances--BELIEVERS' BAPTISM, FOLLOWED BY THE LORD'S SUPPER.(Matthew 28:19-20)
7. Its work--getting folks saved, baptizing them (with a baptism that meets all the requirements of God's Word), teaching them ("to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you").(Matthew 28:16-20)
8. Its financial plan--"Even so (TITHES and OFFERINGS) hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel," (I Corinthians 9:14)
9. Its weapons of warfare--spiritual, not carnal.
(II Corinthians 10:4; Ephesians 6:10-20)
10. Its independence--separation of Church and State.
(Matthew 22:21)
In any town there are many different churches all claiming to be the true church. Take the marks, or teachings, of the different churches and find the ones which have these marks, or doctrines. The ones which have these marks, or doctrines, taught in God's Word, are the true churches.
True Bible-Believing churches existed before the ROMAN CATHOLIC cult. The ROMAN CATHOLIC cult as we know it can trace its beginnings back to the Emperor Constantine in the forth century, AD. The true Church of God started at Pentecost in the first century, and there have been true Bible-believing churches ever since. Jesus said to the Apostles, "lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world" (Matthew 28:20). The birth of the New Testament church began at Pentecost.
If you have any questions check history.
Well, you're going to have to explain that to some of the best Theologians in Protestant history, who never deny that Catholics wrote the Bible. They may not admit the word "Catholic" was used.

Or, you may be going off of Fox's Book of Martyrs, which has truth, but also false legends told by liars.

SOME Protestants make the argument that there were no Chrisitans until recent times, and that all lived in darkness. But this argument has no evidence.

The early Christians were Catholic. That is an absolute fact, on the name of Jesus Christ Himself, our Lord. Do not argue with me, tell that to the Savior you proclaim to believe, while denouncing His Church in the same breath.

Woe to those that cause the children of God to stumble.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431920 Apr 10, 2013
jethro8 wrote:
<quoted text>WRONG! it is the biggest christian/pagan church, Jesus did not put a name to his church, Ignatius did, Jesus was Jewish,there was a group of Jewish/Christians centuries ago but they came after Jesus' death,so he was a Jew, Rome conquered Israel,murdered,raped and pillaged the country,the pagan/christian leaders were right there stealing religious writings and artifacts (which should be given back to them)including the christian church of Antioch, so why would a Jew reward them by building "HIS" church in a pagan country that conquered his homeland ETC.? is it just me or does anyone else see something wrong with that picture? Jesus is the only head of His church (Eph. 1:22-23),the church calls the pope the Vicar of Christ on earth (no references in the Bible),that would mean two leaders of the true church,true? yes it would be true, but since there can only be one and jesus is the one according to the legend, the pope is a meaningless position in the religious world,he is the head of the man made pagan/christian church,which cares more for power and money than it does for it's followers,we know what proves that,so no need to mention it,tired of doing that."MY CHURCH" clearly spoken by Jesus and clearly written in the bible,there is no other name attached to the church neither spoken or written,so no man made church can not with 100% accuracy claim to be the true church.
"You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).

What name are you referring to? All Christians were just called Christians by others. Catholic was only used to describe the emerging church structure that arose. I agree, Catholics should not call themselves Catholics, but Christians only. But I understand why they do with all the denominations now that exist.

If you mean Roman Catholic Church, that is not, and never has been the name of the Church. Roman is a Protestant name attached to the Catholic Church, not their own. They have 23 Rites, and the proper name of the Western churches is the Latin Rite, as we mostly come from the Latin tradition in Western Europe. But there are 22 others.

It is really just named the Catholic Church, but simply means Universal Church. No, Jesus did not use that, but nor did he denounce it. Why would he? Universal is precisely what he wanted, for us ALL to come to HIS Church.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431921 Apr 10, 2013
jethro8 wrote:
<quoted text>jesus states he is going to build a church,no name just "my church" where you learn his fathers word,never mentions creating a religion,just talks about spreading his fathers word,so a reality check says man created religion, not god or jesus.
Not so. There is nothing wrong with religion. That means a System of Belief. God has always used systems to help us stay true to his Church. That is why he commanded all the rituals in the OT that the Israelites practiced around the Tabernacle. That is a System of Belief. That is pure religion.

Nothing wrong with that. The whole universe is a system. Nature is composed of countless systems. Systems are good.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431922 Apr 10, 2013
MICHAEL wrote:
<quoted text>
For those that believe in Jesus, christians to this day still argue over who killed him. Wouldn't christians at least know that information?
We know through historical records there were many men in Judea 2,000 years ago claiming to be the messiah. Why weren't they rounded up and crucified?
Back in the day historical records indicate that Jews did not crucify people but stoned them to death. Romans crucified people.
Christians claim they know Jesus, but don't know his date of birth, don't know what he did to support himself (his father supposedly a carpenter) don't know the date he died, and still don't know what group was responsible for his death if this man even existed.
There might have been a man who did good deeds back in the day, and if there was, christians have done everything to take his own heritage away, by taking the Jew out of this man making him their own.
The "Jew" was never taken out of Jesus. He is the Third Temple, He is the fulfillment of the Law (the Jewish Laws.) All the ritual practiced in a Catholic Church today are in fact Israelite rituals that Jesus never changed, but for one important aspect. He is the Lamb, and He died for ALL sins, so no more lambs need be slaughtered, no more blood spilled. But all the ritual remained the same.

The fact is, we Protestants would ALL be very uncomfortable in an early Christian Church of the 1st or 2nd Century ... except for Catholics , Anglicans (and others like them) and Orthodox today, who would feel right at home.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431923 Apr 10, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I am.
You do bring up another exacting point above:
"Forgive me if I am mistaken, but there are many foul people in these last 2000 years putting words in Jesus's mouth that never were uttered."
- How are we to know whom is truthful and whom are not?
- is it wise for men to make religions about the texts they ONLY think are true?
- Why is only a half of Jesus is believed in, because if I were to use your statement and logic above, your portion of Jesus is created as well.
Simple. Tens of thousands of copiers began copying all of the books from the outset. Thus, the Bible was preserved, and came down to us.

Innocent until proven guilty is not just some legal term, it is an ethical and moral one. For no one may accuse the dead of lying or falseness without proof, or at all since the dead cannot defend themselves.

So what you are saying is that countless years were wasted by people copying the WRONG gospels and books. Or, that they deliberately did something against Jesus, or changed Scripture, or did something dishonest.

Well then, prove it. It's the same for the atheists, who use your exact same arguments to denounce the whole Faith. Except that Arians and Cathars use it to make up their own ideas about what Jesus said or did.

I trust the 12 Apostles. I trust those that appointed in their place, and the line of success, unbroken for all of these ages.

Gnostics have no such claim.

It is all about trust. I trust Jesus, and what he did, and who He put in charge of His Church. Why should I not? It would be a sin for me to accuse any of them without evidence.
Dust Storm

Minneapolis, MN

#431924 Apr 10, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
"You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).
What name are you referring to? All Christians were just called Christians by others. Catholic was only used to describe the emerging church structure that arose. I agree, Catholics should not call themselves Catholics, but Christians only. But I understand why they do with all the denominations now that exist.
If you mean Roman Catholic Church, that is not, and never has been the name of the Church. Roman is a Protestant name attached to the Catholic Church, not their own. They have 23 Rites, and the proper name of the Western churches is the Latin Rite, as we mostly come from the Latin tradition in Western Europe. But there are 22 others.
It is really just named the Catholic Church, but simply means Universal Church. No, Jesus did not use that, but nor did he denounce it. Why would he? Universal is precisely what he wanted, for us ALL to come to HIS Church.
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say,‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”

JN 17:21 That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John 17:23 I in them and you in me--so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me.

Jeremiah 32:39 I will give them singleness of heart and action, so that they will always fear me and that all will then go well for them and for their children after them.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431925 Apr 10, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
"Well there is only one banner, Christ, that is true."
- opinion
- there is no proof that Jesus rose in bodily form - that would be only belief.
- for something to be true - there must be facts that back up the claim. So far, all you have is circumstantial.
"Too many Catholics are outright heathens."
- only men have claimed other men to be this.
- "God" never stated that a specific religion or belief is heresy and those who practice those beliefs are heathens. You are reaching.
No, it is history. The ONLY evidence is that there were witnesses, and they testified to what they saw.

You either must believe them, or call them liars or crazy. I believe them, since I cannot prove them liars, or crazy.

Those who are reaching for alternative stories to what was written down, are usually those trying to justify their own personal desires and sins.

There is no motive for lying in this case. Being a Christian is very difficult, and very challenging. Every heresy in the world was some attempt to make it easier and skip some moral commandment.

I know, because I still struggle with some of His commands. They simply are not easy. I have chosen to accept the most difficult religion on earth.

I could have gone an easier route and chosen another.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431926 Apr 10, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
"Now we need the Medieval Church. We need Thomas Aquinas. We need you to get Medieval again ... "
- if you can't beat them - BEAT, BURN AND TORTURE them. Let's get "medieval"??!!
Christianity does divide.
Never been done. Only the secular (non-Catholic authority) in Medieval times had any power to execute people. You see, you are falling for the same historical lies as the atheists, or propaganda issued by the early Protestants. Fox's Book of Martyrs, perhaps?

First, to truly grasp the situation, you must go to original sources. And when you do, as I have, you will find that:

Galileo was never treated unjustly.

The Crusades were not evil.

Medieval peoples did not believe the world was flat, or failed to bathe often, or were primitive in thought or deed.

That the Inquisition was evil (any of them), or had the power to execute people.(I learned this from a Jewish atheist who wrote about the history of New Mexico, and Crypto-Jews. Even HE had to tell the audience, before he could proceed with the lecture, that the Inquisition was not as we think.)

There are countless vile lies about Christian history. Naturally, because we are despised, as Jesus said we would be.

When I say the Church needs to get Medieval, what I mean is that it needs to ASSERT ITS FULL MORAL AUTHORITY OVER ALL ASPECTS OF LIFE. Governments included, since the separation of church and state never meant what most people think it means either.

That does NOT mean burning at the stake, which ITSELF was strictly anti-Christian, is being endorsed. Excommunication and exile are the only legitimate punishments, unless one continues to push their own beliefs as fact upon the population, then stronger measures MIGHT be justified.

And I am testing all of you. If the word "Medieval" conjures up ideas of witch burning, then you are ignorant of history. That is not at all what Medieval times was about. It was about the development of the most technologically advanced civilization the world has ever seen, about people that struggled to make a better world, who brought us science, and universities, and the Renaissance.

All of those that lie about Medieval people, and who they actual were, and what they actual did, are vile creatures.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431927 Apr 10, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Baptist? Is that the best you can be?
You say you believe in all what Jesus taught, but you are Baptist.
I think you are trying to pull a fast one over someone.
If you were to believe in all of what Jesus taught, you would/could not be Baptist.
Please don't mislead others.
You are right. I should be Catholic.

But I am not trying to mislead others. Nor do I claim to be part of the only true Church. Nor does my own church make this claim.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431928 Apr 10, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Not so. I've been dealing with the most vile of human beings the Internet has to offer. Just google Yankee Yahoo, and see how many battles have been in over the year. And yes, I did get jaded, and let the world make me a little bitter.
But no more. You have no idea what seeds you might be planting. Maybe you're tactics were better in the beginning, maybe not. But not trying is a sin, and not doing your very best is a sin, and giving up and letting yourself become bitter is a sin.
And I assure, Protestants are listening. I am still one. I am a Baptist, and already I see something stirring in the hearts of both sides. More and more Protestants are speaking well of Catholics, and my own church let a Catholic speak to our whole flock on matters that concern us both. Why am I not Catholic yet? Because my family is not convinced. But we have more young Catholics doing Bible-studies, long overdue, at UNM standing up against the enemy. And we have Catholics coming to Protestant Bible study ... not to try and cause trouble, but learn that we have more in common than we realize.
The seeds have been planted. Now pray like your life depends on it, because it does. The hate and bigotry is nothing what the Saints endured, and not even close to what Our Lord endured. Gather the strength, and redouble your efforts, brother.
~~~
THE BAPTIST....
COMPROMISING THEIR CHRISTIAN FAITH
LEANING TOWARD THE PAGAN ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
WHILE CONSIDERING BECOMING PARTY TO THEIR CONJECTURE ...
IS JUST ANOTHER SIGN THAT WE ARE LIVING IN
LAST DAYS...
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
And what am I compromising? And what is pagan about the Catholics?

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431929 Apr 10, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
There you have it Clay. The confrinter is not worth spending time. You and others have warned these factious people many times, but they have closed their minds. They have no eyes to see and ears to hear. They offer nothing in rebuttal to the solid arguments. Their faith is in their own ideology and interpretations and skewed history. They are perfect in every way just ask them. No wrong however is too great lest it be a Catholic for which forgiveness does not apply. Scott Hahns story comes to life. G.K. Chesterton and every other convert. At first they fight and struggle to overcome and deny reality. Eventually they can no longer deny the truth. Frint denies any truth other than that which he chooses to believe which is not based in fact, but a desperate attempt to hold on to the erroneous beliefs he has held. It is hard for many to admit what they have been taught and believed their whole life is not based in truth. The Apostles and Martyrs died for telling people what they did not want to hear. Hojo is right. Why not repeat the same thing to them. They do not listen they never have. I don't think a single one of them could actually tell you what you believe and why. They mock the fathers, they mock anything Catholic, yet they will blindly post any piece of tabloid trash and when proven to be a lie prance on to the next one or throw out abuse as if it doesn't exist amongst them. These are wretched people. By OSAS standards all Catholics fit the bill, but they dance around that too. Over and over and over again they have shown their multiple discrepancies of what they believe, but close it out of their minds. It's truly sad to see.
All too true.

So ask who their pastors are, and go to the source. Ask what church they attend, and see what is being taught.

And if they have neither, then you have them, because they are not practicing any form of Christianity whatsoever.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431930 Apr 10, 2013
3 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.

(1 Timothy 6:3 ESV)

Sounds like many of you are obsessed in this unhealthy controversy, which has led to malicious talk.
marge

Ames, IA

#431931 Apr 10, 2013
"Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts." Jeremiah 15:16

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431932 Apr 10, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Simple. Tens of thousands of copiers began copying all of the books from the outset. Thus, the Bible was preserved, and came down to us.
"Tens of thousands"
- hmmmmm.....citation please, considering illiteracy was rampant in the first five centuries - thanks to the so-called "Church".

BTW - scribal errors have already been proven to occur, that would and had changed the meaning of a passage.

Bart Ehrman discusses four different examples in his book "Misquoting Jesus".
http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Story-...

You'll have to come up with something to better support what you have stated.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Innocent until proven guilty is not just some legal term, it is an ethical and moral one. For no one may accuse the dead of lying or falseness without proof, or at all since the dead cannot defend themselves.
You'll have to first provide proof that those dead people even wrote what you claim is "innocent".

Citation please.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
So what you are saying is that countless years were wasted by people copying the WRONG gospels and books. Or, that they deliberately did something against Jesus, or changed Scripture, or did something dishonest.
I didn't say that at all.

What I was pointing out is that, there are no witness accounts that were contemporary with the actual occurances, so how is that you find them true and accurate, if at a minimum these books were written decades later.

If one is to accept all of what Jesus taught, then the picture forms on who he was, and what he taught.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Well then, prove it. It's the same for the atheists, who use your exact same arguments to denounce the whole Faith. Except that Arians and Cathars use it to make up their own ideas about what Jesus said or did.
I have with the link above.

How much evidence do you require from me? I'd like to get this out of the way early, because if I am to keep posting support and evidence, then I want to make sure I achieve it completely.

How much?
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
I trust the 12 Apostles. I trust those that appointed in their place, and the line of success, unbroken for all of these ages.
Gnostics have no such claim.
No you don't, but to give you the benefit of a doubt - which of the original 13 Apostles do you trust? Please list them all.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
It is all about trust. I trust Jesus, and what he did, and who He put in charge of His Church. Why should I not? It would be a sin for me to accuse any of them without evidence.
- The so-called "Church" has not been fully defined, so your argument is lacking substance and may be just trying to mislead others.

If you trust Jesus, then you turst all his teachings. The Baptist do NOT accept non-canonical texts as part of their doctrine. With you saying the opposite, it is clear you are not Baptist.

You don't have to accuse anyone, because you've already lied to yourself about your honesty with believing in Jesus.
Clay

United States

#431933 Apr 10, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
"You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).
What name are you referring to? All Christians were just called Christians by others. Catholic was only used to describe the emerging church structure that arose. I agree, Catholics should not call themselves Catholics, but Christians only. But I understand why they do with all the denominations now that exist.
If you mean Roman Catholic Church, that is not, and never has been the name of the Church. Roman is a Protestant name attached to the Catholic Church, not their own. They have 23 Rites, and the proper name of the Western churches is the Latin Rite, as we mostly come from the Latin tradition in Western Europe. But there are 22 others.
It is really just named the Catholic Church, but simply means Universal Church. No, Jesus did not use that, but nor did he denounce it. Why would he? Universal is precisely what he wanted, for us ALL to come to HIS Church.
Most Catholics do not know that. Its interesting a Protestant knows more about Church history than Catholics. That's why its so easy for Evangelicals to away Catholics away from the Church.

Most have no idea ROMAN Catholic is a Protestant name given to us that stuck. It stuck so much, the Catholic Church doesn't correct it, and sometimes uses it for administrative purposes, but not in the official capacity of the Church.
Its interesting that later cultist and some Evangelicals point to Book of Revelation, and say its the ROMAN Catholic Church (not Pagan Rome) that John was writing about. They have no clue that the name was given by England and carried over to the USA. Oh well, it ain't going away now.

“What are you looking at?”

Since: Jan 08

Albuquerque, NM

#431934 Apr 10, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it is history. The ONLY evidence is that there were witnesses, and they testified to what they saw.
With you keep voicing it without providing any support, is a typical so-called "Christian" problem. Repeating it does not make it true.

Please name all the witnesses you think testified accurately.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>You either must believe them, or call them liars or crazy. I believe them, since I cannot prove them liars, or crazy.
I've already hsown you that the writings have been changed and now flawed. What more evidence do you need to believe in the evidence?

Or more accurately - you are afraid the Bible is incorrect, which causes a big dent in your theology, so you continue to deny the truths by being dishonest with others and yourself?

Well?
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>Those who are reaching for alternative stories to what was written down, are usually those trying to justify their own personal desires and sins.
Citation please.

Oh I get it. Your belief is correct and all others are wrong.

Your arrogance is starting to show.
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>There is no motive for lying in this case. Being a Christian is very difficult, and very challenging. Every heresy in the world was some attempt to make it easier and skip some moral commandment.
Please cite the passage or text that has "God" stating these heresies.

Or are you going to just pass this point of interest on by and go on living a lie told to you by men?

Seriously, where has "God" stated that a specific belief is heresy.

I think you are continuing to lie for your religion and belief.

Where's the honesty?
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>I know, because I still struggle with some of His commands. They simply are not easy. I have chosen to accept the most difficult religion on earth.
I could have gone an easier route and chosen another.
You struggle because you let other men dictate for what you are to believe.

Choose Self. Jesus did. Don't you want to be like Jesus?

Since: Nov 08

usa

#431935 Apr 10, 2013
MICHAEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Think about this. Over thousands of years the jews wrote the OT. The Jews claimed to have received the 10 commandments from God, even chritiainity believes that, but Jews do not believe in sons of God, so why would God send his son down to earth to be born a jew, live his life and practice his jewish faith as the son of God, if Jews do not believe in sons of God?
.......makes no common sense....
the son of a god walking the earth? big pill to swallow,and if Jesus was just a Jewish man,of course Jewish people are going to have doubts,since there is no writings by ordinary Jewish people about the so called miracles that happened,there is going to be serious doubt, Albert einstein even said there is nothing special about his people,if Moses or Jesus were the first writers of the books Jesus would have to be made a Jew.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Pope Benedict XVI Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
United House of Prayer for All People: Bishop's... (Apr '08) 4 hr Married in 8,881
Pope's visit to stoke climate fight Jan 26 SpaceBlues 1
Pope says Catholics must practice a responsible... Jan 21 theidiotsareunited 3
More Jan 20 George 3
Filipino Catholics hails new saints (Apr '14) Jan 20 KidlatNgayon 80
Pope: Don't Breed Like Rabbits. Or Use Birth Co... Jan 20 Weird or What 1
Pope's visit will change Philippines, Cardinal ... Jan 19 MS_Singapore 42
More from around the web