Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 701764 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#432018 Apr 11, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
987
<quoted text>
On this...the Catholics got it right. From the Catholic Encylcopedia: Christ, Jesus - The incarnate Son of God and the redeemer of the human race....
Dallas M. Roark wrote an excellent book on this, a Baptist I believe. But he also references his work to ... now get ready ... Frank Sheed's Theology and Sanity! So a Protestant refers to a Catholic on matters of deep Theology.

Yes, we both have the Trinity right, because we use the same sources and same Church Fathers. But Dallas then kind of explains away Sacred Tradition as just the oral Sacred Scripture, that it is all Sacred Scripture, or the Bible, whether it is oral or not. But he at least understand ex cathedra and corrects the bad assumptions made by claiming infallibility.

But I sure learned a lot from both, bless them.
Clay

Garden City, MI

#432019 Apr 11, 2013
7th Day Catholics Rock wrote:
<quoted text>How one knows if what the apostles taught they compared with the other testament of Christ the Old Testament.
Acts 17:11
King James Version (KJV)
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Galatians 1:8.
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
This is how one knows which books were inspired and belong in the New Testament. Gods Word does not contridict itself.
However it does take discerment from the Holy Spirit and not the carnal mind to see deeper into Gods Word.
The fact that the Apostles quote the OT is not proof. The OT was written before they wrote the NT.
We are still relying on the authority of the Catholic Church. The teaching Magistrium and hierarchy set up by the Apostles put together a Christian set of scriptures in Rome at the start of the 5th century. They did so despite never being instructed by Christ nor His Apostles to do it. If you think Christ commanded the Apostles write epistles and memoirs for a Bible, could you please provide Book, Chapter and verse where He says it.

Could you also provide Book, Chapter, verse where Our Lord commands which Books - old or new - should be included in a Christian Bible?

How about any writings from Christianity before the council of Hippo, that speak of any certain collection of Books?

How about any writings before Martin Luther or Calvin that speak of Sola Scripture as a teaching of Christianity???

"Be not carried away by varied and strange teachings"
Apostle Paul in letter to the Hebrews 13:9

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#432020 Apr 11, 2013
OldJG wrote:
OldJG wrote:
<quoted text>
Provide the name of these theologians who said the Roman Catholics wrote the Bible. The Jews wrote every word in the Bible other than those written by Luke. All of which was inspired by the Holy Spirit.
You said, quote, "The early Christians were Catholic. That is an absolute fact, on the name of Jesus Christ Himself, our Lord. Do not argue with me, tell that to the Savior you proclaim to believe, while denouncing His Church in the same breath." End quote.
You are the dumbest person I have ever encountered. The early Christians were JEWISH....you moron. Was Peter a Jew? Yes or no. If not you better re-write Acts 10. When did the Church have it's beginning.....Pentecost. Read Acts 2. Was Paul a Jew? Yes or no. Was John a Jew? Yes or no. How about Jesus? Was He a Jew or was he a Roman Catholic?
You said, quote "Woe to those that cause the children of God to stumble." End quote.
Try reading these verses......
Galatians 1:8-9, 8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."
Go back to your hole. You are nothing more than a Roman Catholic pretending to be a Baptist. Every Baptist I know would disown you and your theology from hell.
Roman Catholics believe the following:
Prayers for the dead
Making the sign of the cross
Veneration of angels, dead saints, and images
Mass a daily ritual
Exaltation of Mary, term "Mother of God"
Extreme Unction
Purgatory
Latin used in worship
Prayers offered to Mary, dead saints and angels
Kissing the pope's feet
Temporal power of popes
Veneration of cross, images, relics
Holy water
Fasting on Fridays and Lent
Mass as a sacrifice and attendance made mandatory
Celibacy of priests
Rosary
Sale of indulgences
Seven sacraments
Transubstantiation
Confession to a priest instead of God
Adoration of the wafer (Jesus is a cracker)
The cup forbidden to the laity at communion
Tradition has equal authority with the Bible
Apocryphal books are added to the Bible
Immaculate conception of Mary (actually deception)
Salvation by baptism
Infallibility of the pope
Assumption of Mary
Mary proclaimed the "Mother of the Church"
Do Baptists believe these things? I think not. You are no Baptist. You are a Roman Catholic in Baptist clothing. Much like a wolf in sheeps clothing. Do you understand?
<quoted text>
Why not answer the questions instead of ducking them. Provide the names of the theologians you quoted. Also, which Roman Catholic wrote the Bible?
Was Jesus a Jew or a Roman Catholic? How about Paul, Peter, John, Andrew, Barnabus and on and on and on?
Have you ever read Acts 2 and Acts 10?
Baptist? Surely not SBC. Adrian Rogers would roll over in his grave to hear one of his Baptist brothers speak as you speak. Again, you are nothing more than a Roman Catholic pretending to be a Baptist. Much like a wolf in sheeps clothing. Do you understand?
Actual I did. And what authority does Adrian Rogers, or any modern theologian have, exactly? Was their a laying on the hands from an Apostle? Did Jesus come down and made them one? No one gets to mess with the doctrines, no one.

What I am getting from you is that you would rather sow discord and bitterness amongst your brothers and sisters in Christ.

I want the name of your pastor, and your church. I don't need yours, but I will confront your elders if they teach heresy even by Protestant standards. The time for timidity is over.

THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS AGAINST THY NEIGHBOR!

And yes, Jesus was Catholic! He is UNIVERSAL. He is the One! He is God! One God, One Temple, One Ark of the Convenant, One Tribe of Levite Priests, One Melchizedek, One Church!

There can only be One!

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#432021 Apr 11, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
What most Protestants and even some Catholics, fail to realize and understand is that THE BIBLE---- "IS" TRADITION"!---whether it is written or whether it is the unwritten (oral teachings of Jesus from His Apostles)
That is true, and an argument used in reserve by one I just mentioned, Dallas M. Roark. Either way, it is the same. So in some ways, Protestants have not just removed Seven Books, but much more.
Clay

Garden City, MI

#432022 Apr 11, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice Clay - honesty speaks wonders, huh?
No I do not rely on the declaration of men, but I will utilize their thoughts to formulate a belief based upon those texts. Jesus basically said the same thing with, "to know yourself".
Which is completely different than relying on an organization to dictate what you are supposed to do.
You don't need it, unless there is something that they can do for you at that moment when you appear in front of the supposed "judgment". Can they? Like what? Will they be holding your hand? Will they be providing a list of things that you did? Will they be there when you have to answer for what you had done in your life?
- Nope - they won't.
So in essence, YOU get to choose your salvation, and no religion is required.
Self.
You can't escape the fact that you ARE relying (or relied) on the Catholic Church, who determined the Books of the NT.
You also can't escape the fact that you're relying on the memoirs of men, who say Jesus said x, written 30 + yrs after Jesus supposedly said it.

"We must concede to the Papist (that's us), that they have the word of God (The Bible), that we received it from them, and of which, we would have no knowledge of it at all"

Martin Luther

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#432023 Apr 11, 2013
truth wrote:
justification..no you are wrong Jesus don't have rights on justice as well many victims too..by
Jesus/God is the source of all rights, and all justice, and all love, and all good.

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#432024 Apr 11, 2013
New Age Spiritual Leader wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice Clay - honesty speaks wonders, huh?
No I do not rely on the declaration of men, but I will utilize their thoughts to formulate a belief based upon those texts. Jesus basically said the same thing with, "to know yourself".
Which is completely different than relying on an organization to dictate what you are supposed to do.
You don't need it, unless there is something that they can do for you at that moment when you appear in front of the supposed "judgment". Can they? Like what? Will they be holding your hand? Will they be providing a list of things that you did? Will they be there when you have to answer for what you had done in your life?
- Nope - they won't.
So in essence, YOU get to choose your salvation, and no religion is required.
Self.
Ah, so it comes out.

You have a problem with organizations. With institutions. And for good reason, they all fail eventually. All governments crumble. All corporations die or are revoked. All religions vanish or change over time.

All but one.

The one institution that has endured the test of time for 2000 years, and no other has come close.

How do you explain that away in your mind?

And why would your dislike of organization change anything? We still need organization. Society always creates organization to get things done, to defend itself, to assert itself, and to organize itself.

What is wrong with that?

“Fear is the Mind-Killer”

Since: Jun 08

Albuquerque, NM

#432025 Apr 11, 2013
jethro8 wrote:
<quoted text>yes i'm still fishing and i "need a bigger boat" catching a lot of truth about the false teachings of the pagan/christian church,and there is a lot more fishing to do,where as in your case your boat is empty,a 6 foot dingy is all you need, you can not disprove anything i posted,if you could you would and you don't because you can't. your lucky if you could catch a guppies worth of truth.
Not doing a good job. The Catholic Church is changing ... because so many Protestants have gone over to her, and restored her. And many more are going over it Islam.

So who is your pastor? What church do you attend?
Clay

Garden City, MI

#432026 Apr 11, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
<quoted text>
That is true, and an argument used in reserve by one I just mentioned, Dallas M. Roark. Either way, it is the same. So in some ways, Protestants have not just removed Seven Books, but much more.
The Jews determined their official canon of scripture after all of the Apostles died and Christianity was well under way.
The writings of the early Church (like the Epistle of Barnabas allude to the missing 7 books of tat Protestants removed. The Dead Sea scrolls included the Book of Tobit.

Conclusion: at least one Jewish sect (the Qumrans) regarded some (if not all) of the 7 Books as scripture.
Disciples of the Apostles considered those 7 Books as sacred scripture.
Martin Luther did not tell people that the official Jewish canon came AFTER Christianity. He was unauthorized to remove any Books in the Bible. Period.
Dust Storm

Minneapolis, MN

#432027 Apr 11, 2013
Yankee Yahoo wrote:
Roman Catholics believe the following:
Prayers for the dead (not forbidden)
Making the sign of the cross (not forbidden)
Veneration of angels, dead saints, and images (not forbidden)
Mass a daily ritual (Mandated by Our Lord Himself)
Exaltation of Mary, term "Mother of God" (Because she is)
Extreme Unction (Mandated by God)
Purgatory (All sins must be purged before coming before God)
Latin used in worship (wow, not forbidden, and totally cool)
Prayers offered to Mary, dead saints and angels (Absolutely wrong, prayers are ASKED for)
Kissing the pope's feet (voluntary, nor forbidden)
Temporal power of popes (of course, so?)
Veneration of cross, images, relics (absolutely, and not forbidden)
Holy water (damned right, we need it for vampires.)
Fasting on Fridays and Lent (Fasting is mandatory)
Mass as a sacrifice and attendance made mandatory (Of course, it's all about JESUS, it better be mandatory!)
Celibacy of priests (not forbidden, and only in the Latin Rite, priests may marry in the other Rites)
Rosary (not forbidden, and admittedly a little weird)
Sale of indulgences (not anymore, and definitely an error. Priests are still sinners after all)
Seven sacraments (Yeah, totally valid and fully supported by Scripture)
Transubstantiation (a little weird, but legit)
Confession to a priest instead of God (not forbidden)
Adoration of the wafer (well, Jesus commanded we eat him, several times. Get over it.)
The cup forbidden to the laity at communion (For supporters of gay marriage and pro-aborts, you betcha!)
Tradition has equal authority with the Bible (Of course it does. Sacred Tradition and Scripture are both God's word!)
Apocryphal books are added to the Bible (Says who? Martin Luther? No authority.)
Immaculate conception of Mary (Arianism and heresy, all Protestants except this)
Salvation by baptism (Totally wrong, Catholics do not believe this)
Infallibility of the pope (ex cathedra, look it up)
Assumption of Mary (questionable, but not worth fighting about)
Mary proclaimed the "Mother of the Church" (maybe Catholics go a little too far ... but she DID give birth to Jesus for crying out loud. Only one was worthy of that task, so show some respect!)
"Do Baptists believe these things? I think not."
Never claimed Baptists believed these things. Now, is any of the above worth keeping Christians apart over? Absolutely not.
Woe to those that cause the children of God to stumble.
Myth 7: A person used to be able to buy indulgences.

One never could "buy" indulgences. The financial scandal surrounding indulgences, the scandal that gave Martin Luther an excuse for his heterodoxy, involved alms—indulgences in which the giving of alms to some charitable fund or foundation was used as the occasion to grant the indulgence. There was no outright selling of indulgences. The Catholic Encyclopedia states: "[I]t is easy to see how abuses crept in. Among the good works which might be encouraged by being made the condition of an indulgence, almsgiving would naturally hold a conspicuous place.... It is well to observe that in these purposes there is nothing essentially evil. To give money to God or to the poor is a praiseworthy act, and, when it is done from right motives, it will surely not go unrewarded."

Being able to explain these seven myths will be a large step in helping others to understand indulgences. But, there are still questions to be asked:

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/myths-about-in...
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#432028 Apr 11, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
who="hojo"
What most Protestants and even some Catholics, fail to realize and understand is that THE BIBLE---- "IS" TRADITION"!---whether it is written or whether it is the unwritten (oral teachings of Jesus from His Apostles)
((((((((((
That is not what Jesus said about it.
KM
Please tell (all of us) KM, where Jesus said that the bible is the "one and only" source of truth, that God chose to transmit His divine and infallible Word!!!(book, chapter and verse please)! The fact is that we, as Catholics, all know that "nowhere" in the bible does it say that we need to stick "only" to the bible to arrive a the TRUTH of Gods Word!------ HOWEVER what the bible (does say) is that we are to obey BOTH Scripture AND tradition in 2Thess 2:15 to hold fast to the traditions handed down to us from the Apostles, by word of mouth or the letter. The bible teaches that Scripture is the Word of God, but it also teaches that the apostolic tradition is Gods word as well whether by word of mouth or the letter. This tradition is different than the traditions of men, that Jesus condemned. We are to obey apostolic tradition and reject the human traditions that void Gods word. The Apostolic tradition is the oral teaching of Jesus Christ HIMSELF, handed on to His apostles and the teachings of the Apostles that was dictated to them by the Holy Spirit:-THERE WAS NO BIBLE, JESUS NEVER WROTE ANYTHING DOWN, and THERE WAS NO WRITTEN WORD OF GOD (as we know it today)--It was the oral teachings of Jesus that were taught by the Apostles (as Bishops, priests, elders and deacons) "Acts 2" in the Early Biblical Churches,(written in Pauls letters) beginning in Antioch, then in Corinth, Thessalonica, Philippi, Colossus, Ephesus, Galatia and on and on for over 2000 years. I suggest that you read how the Early Christians interpreted the Word of God and not your 21st century preachers. If you do KM, both you and your husband "are in for a (holy shock)!!!
marge

Leesburg, GA

#432030 Apr 11, 2013
Morning Hojo, in fact the Bible does say not to go beyond what is written, when you do its what causes our division.
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#432031 Apr 11, 2013
jethro8 wrote:
<quoted text>yes i'm still fishing and i "need a bigger boat" catching a lot of truth about the false teachings of the pagan/christian church,and there is a lot more fishing to do,where as in your case your boat is empty,a 6 foot dingy is all you need, you can not disprove anything i posted,if you could you would and you don't because you can't. your lucky if you could catch a guppies worth of truth.
Sorry, jethro8, but I don't respond to Protestants who manipulate and distort the TRUTH of the bible or Church History, nor do I "waste my time" debating 2000 years of "already proven already and authenticated' Historical and biblical TRUTH by heretical and self-opinionated editorialists who just "make it up" as they go along. You "fundies" want to debate the undebatable, refute the irrefutable, and deny the undeniable. As I told you before, there is NOTHING to debate, NOTHING to refute and NOTHING to deliberate upon. We as Catholics ALREADY "know without a doubt" that we have the confirmed, recorded and verificable TRUTH that has existed for over 2000 years. Go argue, and debate with the Catholic Catechism, the Encyclicals, the documented writings of the Early Church Fathers (who gave you your bible), the biographical Lives of the Saints, the History of the Apostolic Succession of the Popes (over 2000 years0 and finally the (overwhelming confirmation of the majority of Apologistic historian authors and writers (both Catholic and Protestant) who would "debunk" most or All of the anti-catholic editorial (false) conclusions that you have arrived at!!!
Pad

Fishers, IN

#432032 Apr 11, 2013
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
You puzzle me every time you open up your mouth.
The other day I sword you said you believed the Eucharist to be the very real presence of Jesus Christ. His Body.
Today, it seems like you're a Sabbath observer. I thought the Pentecostal movement observed Sunday.
And yeah, for the record. I can go to a Catholic Mass everyday of the week if I want. I often go Saturday mornings, then again on Sunday - the Holy day of obligation for Christians where we celebrate the Holy Mass. This sacred event has been made a mockery by you born agains and your live bands coffee sipping reclining seats pretending to speak in tongues...
Its sad I tell ya.
Your last few sentences are very important here Clay.

Yes you are right,there is a recliner mentality in the church today,like never before. But it exists in the RCC as well,not just in the prots.Nevertheless,Prots are more prone to recliner worship,because they do not have a liturgy,nor a time in their service to acclaim God by stating the doctrines of faith,there is shouting and praising in many churches as that is what acclaiming means.BUT,the doctrines of our faith are not recited so that our youth especially will remember them.

But what choice do many of us who are caught in this time of Christian life that seems to be the opposite of what should be?

A brother in the Lord @ a particular church I go to here in my city,told me that he decided that it is best to go to the LORD in prayer,and toughen our loins as it were to face the Apostate move that is encrouching our churches.

My church is kind of a paradox as it were,there are times when the service is really sacred,and than there is the opposite.Our lead pastor is in his 40s and he is convinced that our church must reach the TV watchers,and those who would not darken a door of a church.Well our church has grown quite a bit with many of these people,since we are aired on TV a couple times a week.

Everything as it were has taken a back seat,Communion,and baptism,serious times of reflection,PRAYER.We are basically rushed through services.People are coming and many seem to be affected.Our Pastor does have a unique way of preaching.

Nevertheless,our present situation in our service especially for the people in their 50s to 90s is upsetting.Many of our people have to sit in the vestibule as it were to avoid the loud concert type youth music.It is very challenging to say the least,but we have to just accept it,as it only lasts a short time,since the church service is on TV or being recorded for such.

But with all that is going on,our message and preaching is very Bible and Christ centered.We see other believers and there is still a strong bond we feel for one another,that has not changed.The church has a zillion programs or activities to help the new people who attend,and to strengthen those who are already there,CELL Groups,or what is called LIFE GROUPS.

The problems that we face,do not out weigh the main goal and purpose of what we all feel about winning men and women to Christ,or leading them whatever is the best way to put it.ONLY Jesus s a v e s of course.

I see some wonderful things about the Liturgy of your church,and see a sacredness about the overall proceedings of the Mass,personally I have never liked Gregorian or the monotoned music that is prevalant in the Mass.Chanting in Latin or English is not inspiring to me.I would rather hear Hebrew chanted by a Cantor for that matter.

But the atmosphere and trappings of a Catholic building or "church" as it were do not draw me one iota to want to be a RC again.The statues for the most part are abhorrent to me.So I do not see just because I may be discontent with what is happening in many Evangelical churches, that going to a Roman Catholic Mass is an alternative,I would be spending the whole time feeling uncomfortable with the veneration of the things that are placed in the sanctuary.Your priests are compromised as well.
marge

Leesburg, GA

#432033 Apr 11, 2013
1 cor 4:6

I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.

1 cor 3:21

So don't boast about following a particular human leader. For everything belongs to you--
Pad

Fishers, IN

#432034 Apr 11, 2013
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Myth 7: A person used to be able to buy indulgences.
One never could "buy" indulgences. The financial scandal surrounding indulgences, the scandal that gave Martin Luther an excuse for his heterodoxy, involved alms—indulgences in which the giving of alms to some charitable fund or foundation was used as the occasion to grant the indulgence. There was no outright selling of indulgences. The Catholic Encyclopedia states: "[I]t is easy to see how abuses crept in. Among the good works which might be encouraged by being made the condition of an indulgence, almsgiving would naturally hold a conspicuous place.... It is well to observe that in these purposes there is nothing essentially evil. To give money to God or to the poor is a praiseworthy act, and, when it is done from right motives, it will surely not go unrewarded."
Being able to explain these seven myths will be a large step in helping others to understand indulgences. But, there are still questions to be asked:
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/myths-about-in...
It is also important that Martin Luther by the Mercy and grace of our God,saw the lack of basic biblical truth herald in the Roman church of his day.He saw and observed that ceremony and ritual long replaced the sacred teaching of Preaching the Gospel to the people who attended the masses.

He may have seen pure truth taught in the monastery,or confines of the communities of monks,but the people who went to the churches in the towns and cities were deprived of pure gospel teaching.Especially the poor were even lied to as to what was required of them from the Lord Jesus Himself. Martin Luther and many priests and monks of his day saw these spiritual flaws in their church,and wanted to reform them.

Today you have the resources not to be deceived,and so do I.The trouble with Christianity today,the false concept of what the C h u r c h is?

We are the church,not buildings and institutions,the people of God,those transformed by His Spirit,washed in His Blood, the Redeemed!
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#432035 Apr 11, 2013
jethro8 wrote:
<quoted text>yes i'm still fishing and i "need a bigger boat" catching a lot of truth about the false teachings of the pagan/christian church,and there is a lot more fishing to do,where as in your case your boat is empty,a 6 foot dingy is all you need, you can not disprove anything i posted,if you could you would and you don't because you can't. your lucky if you could catch a guppies worth of truth.
The fact is Jethro8, "you ARE an island----(as well as)----ON AN island--(ALL BY YOURSELF). Isolated-frustrated-meandering around in circles--again--(ALL BY YOURSELF)---ONLY GOD, through the power of the Holy Spirit, and Jesus Christ can "open your eyes" to the TRUTH and the "bondage of deception, heresy and distorted truth that you have chosen to accept. The TRUTH,"has, is and will always remain with Jesus Christ (as it has for over 2000 years) in and through His One ( and only one TRUE) Apostolic Catholic Church. over 1 billion Catholic (and growing each and every year by at least 1.5% ALREADY KNOW THAT TRUTH) You've been fishing with the "wrong bait" for years, Jethro8 and that is why you and your other 42,000 conflicting "fundies (EACH ONE OF YOU) remain "isolated-EACH by yourselves" on "your own individual islands" that "go nowhere, except around and around (in circles)!!!
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#432036 Apr 11, 2013
marge wrote:
Morning Hojo, in fact the Bible does say not to go beyond what is written, when you do its what causes our division.
Thanks Marge! But the fact is that in I Cor 1:10 Paul condemns and chastises the Christians for their "dividing, separation and fracturing the Body and Christ and the Body of Believers.... Maybe Luther should have re-read I Corrinthians before he initiated the Protestant reformation that now has over 42,000 contradicting "endless growing" (divisions), of separation, dividing, fracturing and splintering of the Body of Christ,and the Body of Believers
Pad

Fishers, IN

#432037 Apr 11, 2013
marge wrote:
Morning Hojo, in fact the Bible does say not to go beyond what is written, when you do its what causes our division.
i am using your post here to elaborate a little on hwat you just said.ALL Christians tend to add more or to take away from what is Biblical truth.SOME worse than others.

But the baiscs are there,and we all can draw from such,and to encourage one another with what is the truth.

Right now the Christians are facing a tide of persecution from every venue.We Americans will soon find ourselves in the middle of political audacity,to confine us,or take away our freedoms,but that is slow moving right now.

Obama threw a boomerang at the Catholic Church over the contraceptive issue,along with the Abortion pill and so on.We Christians should stand with the Catholic Church on such issues,as they affect us all.

We need to unite about a lot of things these days.But as what was revealed to us in the Scriptures,can never be compromised,no matter how nice those who would challenge our faith could be on the surface.

Catholics are relying on the Scriptures more than they ever did in history,and that is to their favor,as full circle,the Bible is the only B"OOK that confirms our morality,and builds true unity amongst many brethren..

We have seen Christians from every denomination under the sun come together under the Bible's simple and complete analysis of living a true and consistant C h r i s t i a n life.All believers see this.

When we encourage each other to live by faith,and less by sight,walking in truth,we are not divided,but rather united in purpose.

However,if we acclaim our particular church or denomination,we already are opening the door to division.

Christ never told us to herald a particular church institution,but to proclaim Christ in the unity of the Father and the Holy Spirit.He called us all to be members of His Body through faith and the GRACE of God which is not acquired by self determination,but by the unconditional LOVE of God.

Grace is His favor toward us,so that we would C H A N G E,and be transformed by the renewing of our minds in Christ.All Christians have access to this valuable truth,in the W o r d.That is why as the BIBLE says,not men(We must be BORN-AGAIN of the Spirit of God.We do not need denominational teaching to take that truth and expound on it to gain new members for that group,but as a whole Body of believers,we are not bound to denominationalism but to Christ.

Right now as never before in History,we believers will be challenged by denominationalism and factions to bind us to them.But,the truth is we are to become ONE Body,baptized and transformed by the Spirit of God,to do the Will of the Father,who already established His Kingdom long before He sent His Son.

His Son had to die a cruel and unjust death to take our place as sinners,to break down that middle wall of partition from the Father and His Kingdom.

We can understand the need to be under one umbrella as it were to avoid the clamor of religious sectarianism,but if we are not united in the Spirit of Christ,we are doomed to fail,and become ineffective,not having His hope in us,but a political mindset to argue and divide continually.

The LORD has done well to bring many to a unity in Spirit that is beyond our sectarian rivalries.It is within our best interest to dialogue with Catholic,and Orthodox believers.Our differences may surface,but in knowing we can also respect each other as well.

This forum has evidenced both the respect,and the animosity we have for one another as well.But in a way that is good,as we really need to air how we feel sometimes in order to fianlly face the division we have toward one another.

It is not that we should all be under one particular organization,but that we MUST respect Christ in each other.To constantly condemn each other,is to condemn Christ within us as well.I cannot waste my time trying to convince the Catholics on here that I am right and they are not.
Pad

Fishers, IN

#432038 Apr 11, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks Marge! But the fact is that in I Cor 1:10 Paul condemns and chastises the Christians for their "dividing, separation and fracturing the Body and Christ and the Body of Believers.... Maybe Luther should have re-read I Corrinthians before he initiated the Protestant reformation that now has over 42,000 contradicting "endless growing" (divisions), of separation, dividing, fracturing and splintering of the Body of Christ,and the Body of Believers
If you were Martin Luther,and subject to a corrupt POPE,that was in that position because of politics,and abusing the Catholics in those times, you as Martin Luther would have wanted the same changes.You being once a Lutheran,should know that Luther wrestled with his precarious position,and it was not easy for him to confront the whole Roman SEE.

It is quite naive on your part to think that Martin Luther set the stage for 42,000 contradicting divisions.Really hojo,I think your conversion to Catholicism has distorted your thinking,and separated you from the reality of Moral truth,that was the basic foundation of what Luther was fighting for to begin with.

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