Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 554,868
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#431529 Apr 6, 2013
Catholic catechism: CHRIST IS NOT GOD THE FATHER

254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another:

"He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87

They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.
socci

Mount Vernon, MO

#431530 Apr 6, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
Catholic catechism: CHRIST IS NOT GOD THE FATHER
254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another:
"He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87
They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

Then, the pope claims to be 'vicar of christ' the second person of their trinity.

The Godhead is true. The Catholic's Trinity is not.

http://youtu.be/Dk8M6YwTVVA
Clay

United States

#431531 Apr 6, 2013
Oxbow wrote:
470
<quoted text>
What does that have to do with:
348 266 257 580 575
Christians follow the teaching of Christ.....that's why we are called Christians..
Someone who denies the divinity of Jesus Christ is not a Christian. You deny Christ and God are one.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#431532 Apr 6, 2013
531
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Someone who denies the divinity of Jesus Christ is not a Christian. You deny Christ and God are one.
I deny Christ is God the Father because He is not God the Fther.....

On this one, the Catholics got it right...

Catholic catechism:

254 The divine persons are really distinct from one another. "God is one but not solitary."86 "Father", "Son", "Holy Spirit" are not simply names designating modalities of the divine being, for they are really distinct from one another:

"He is not the Father who is the Son, nor is the Son he who is the Father, nor is the Holy Spirit he who is the Father or the Son."87 They are distinct from one another in their relations of origin: "It is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds."88 The divine Unity is Triune.

Which says:
While Christ was on earth, the Holy Trinity was:
The Father, the Incarnate Son, the Holy Spirit.....

That is based on Scripture.....

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#431533 Apr 6, 2013
531 479
Clay wrote:
<quoted text>
Someone who denies the divinity of Jesus Christ is not a Christian. You deny Christ and God are one.
I don't because He ain't...per Scripture:

Jesus was not..is not God the Father

Even as true worshipers of God recognize that the will or desire of God is superior to their own will or desire, Jesus acknowledged God's will was superior to his own. In acknowledging this, Jesus indicates that he was inferior to God. Thus, at the time just before his death, the Bible says, at Luke 22:41 & 42:

"And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless, not my will, but thine, be done."

At the time of Jesus' resurrection from the dead, Jesus spoke to Mary Magdalene, as described in the Book of John, at chapter 20 and verse 17, which reads:

"Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God."

Inasmuch as Mary was not ascending, but Jesus was, this passage is telling us that Jesus was going to ascend to heaven, where his father already was - the one he describes here as his God.

How can anyone, with an ounce of brain, read that, and say, "Jesus is God" is beyond me.
MountainHomeCath olic

Ash Flat, AR

#431534 Apr 6, 2013
I do believe the pope is right, however, our local church has been hijacked by a group who isolate themselves from our church, community, and fellow catholics. They seem to want the church community to bow to their needs instead of serving the Mountain Home Catholic community. Is this happening anywhere else?
hojo

Saint Paul, MN

#431535 Apr 6, 2013
jethro8 wrote:
<quoted text>if you were so sure of yourself,you'd answer my questions i keep asking,yet you do everything to duck,dodge and hide from them. give it a try instead of hiding from the truth.
I have told you before and I will say it again!! It is a "total waste of my time" to debate, discus or deliberate ANYTHING with "bible only" anti-catholic heretics, LIKE YOU, who "distort, manipulate, and "make up" your own Protestant CHURCH HISTORY and twisting the TRUE INTERPRETATION of the bible. You "fundies" have become (experts) at "personal opinionizing" EVERYTHING as well as EDITORIALIZING the meaning of Sacred Scripture---and have done so since the Protestant Reformation..... My time is better spent at Daily Mass, receiving Jesus Christs TRUE BODY AND TRUE BLOOD in the Eucharist, hearing, following and adhering to the TRUTH of the Gospel, and the other daily readings, the Sacraments and Daily Adoration and prayer before the Blessed Sacrament...... The fact is that there is NOTHING TO DISCUSS and NOT TO DEBATE..... We as Catholics ALREADY KNOW THE TRUTH! You "fundies" continue to "run around in circles" with your other 42,000 "relative truth" editorialist Christians. Again--Go read the Catholic Catechism and the Encyclicals which re-affirms the TRUTH of over 2000 years of TRUE BIBLICAL AND HISTORICAL WRITINGS that the Catholic Church believes and teaches!--You will also discover that "the vast majority of both Catholic and Protestant Apologistic authors and writers confirm, re-affirm, ratifies and validates EVERY DOCTRINE of TRUTH that authenticates that the One True Catholic Church --is, has and will always be the Church that Jesus HIMSELF established and initiated.
hojo

Saint Paul, MN

#431536 Apr 6, 2013
jethro8 wrote:
<quoted text>1 billion christian/pagans. why can't you realize it? the pope dresses in a pagan outfit, your pagan/christian church use all pagan dates for church holidays,how much more proof do you need?
Send your "fictitious" anti-catholic (editorial) comments to your local newspaper....... Liberal News media :hacks) are "always looking" for (National Inquirer) imaginative, invented and "made up" news!!!

Since: Nov 08

usa

#431537 Apr 6, 2013
21 reasons why the Apocrypha is not inspired:

The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the Apocrypha until the Council of Trent (1546 AD). This was in part because the Apocrypha contained material which supported certain Catholic doctrines, such as purgatory, praying for the dead, and the treasury of merit.
Not one of them is in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament.
Not one of the writers lays any claim to inspiration.
These books were never acknowledged as sacred Scriptures by the Jewish Church, and therefore were never sanctioned by our Lord.
They were not allowed a place among the sacred books, during the first four centuries of the Christian Church.
They contain fabulous statements, and statements which contradict not only the canonical Scriptures, but themselves; as when, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in as many different places.
The Apocrypha inculcates doctrines at variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection.
And the day following Judas came with his company, to take away the bodies of them that were slain, and to bury them with their kinsmen, in the sepulchers of their fathers. And they found under the coats of the slain some of the donaries of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbiddeth to the Jews: so that all plainly saw, that for this cause they were slain. Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden. And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain. And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachmas of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,(For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.(2 Maccabees 12:39-46)
The apocrypha contains offensive materials unbecoming of God's authorship.
Ecclesiasticus 25:19 Any iniquity is insignificant compared to a wife's iniquity.
Ecclesiasticus 25:24 From a woman sin had its beginning. Because of her we all die.
Ecclesiasticus 22:3 It is a disgrace to be the father of an undisciplined, and the birth of a daughter is a loss.
It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assassination and magical incantation.
The apocryphal books themselves make reference to what we call the Silent 400 years, where there was no prophets of God to write inspired materials.
And they laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a convenient place, till there should come a prophet, and give answer concerning them.(1 Maccabees 4:46)
And there was a great tribulation in Israel, such as was not since the day, that there was no prophet seen in Israel.(1 Maccabees 9:27)
And that the Jews, and their priests, had consented that he should be their prince, and high priest for ever, till there should arise a faithful prophet.(1 Maccabees 14:41)
Josephus rejected the apocryphal books as inspired and this reflected Jewish thought at the time of Jesus

Since: Nov 08

usa

#431538 Apr 6, 2013
"From Artexerxes to our own time the complete history has been written but has not been deemed worthy of equal credit with the earlier records because of the failure of the exact succession of the prophets." ... "We have not an innumerable multitude of books among us, disagreeing from and contradicting one another, but only twenty-two books, which contain the records of all the past times; which are justly believed to be divine..."(Flavius Josephus, Against Apion 1:8)
The Manual of Discipline in the Dead Sea Scrolls rejected the apocrypha as inspired.
The Council of Jamnia held the same view rejected the apocrypha as inspired.
They debated the canonicity of a few books (e.g., Ecclesiastes), but they changed nothing and never proclaimed themselves to be authoritative determiners of the Old Testament canon. "The books which they decided to acknowledge as canonical were already generally accepted, although questions had been raised about them. Those which they refused to admit had never been included. They did not expel from the canon any book which had previously been admitted.'The Council of Jamnia was the confirming of public opinion, not the forming of it.'" (F. F. Bruce, The Books and Parchments [Old Tappan, NJ.: Fleming H. Revell, 1963], p. 98])
Although it was occasionally quoted in early church writings, it was nowhere accepted in a canon. Melito (AD 170) and Origen rejected the Apocrypha,(Eccl. Hist. VI. 25, Eusebius) as does the Muratorian Canon.
Jerome vigorously resisted including the Apocrypha in his Latin Vulgate Version (400 AD), but was overruled. As a result, the standard Roman Catholic Bible throughout the medieval period contained it. Thus, it gradually came to be revered by the average clergyman. Still, many medieval Catholic scholars realized that it was not inspired.
The terms "protocanonical" and "deuterocanonical" are used by Catholics to signify respectively those books of Scripture that were received by the entire Church from the beginning as inspired, and those whose inspiration came to be recognized later, after the matter had been disputed by certain Fathers and local churches.
Pope Damasus (366-384) authorized Jerome to translate the Latin Vulgate. The Council of Carthage declared this translation as "the infallible and authentic Bible." Jerome was the first to describe the extra 7 Old Testament books as the "Apocrypha" (doubtful authenticity). Needless to say, Jerome's Latin Vulgate did not include the Apocrypha.
Cyril (born about A.D. 315)- "Read the divine Scriptures - namely, the 22 books of the Old Testament which the 72 interpreters translated" (the Septuagint)
The apocrypha wasn't included at first in the Septuagint, but was appended by the Alexandrian Jews, and was not listed in any of the catalogues of the inspired books till the 4th century
Hilary (bishop of Poictiers, 350 A.D.) rejected the apocrypha (Prologue to the Psalms, Sec. 15)
Epiphanius (the great opposer of heresy, 360 A.D.) rejected them all. Referring to Wisdom of Solomon & book of Jesus Sirach, he said "These indeed are useful books & profitable, but they are not placed in the number of the canonical."

Since: Nov 08

usa

#431539 Apr 6, 2013
posted wrong this should of been first...21 reasons why the Apocrypha is not inspired:

The Roman Catholic Church did not officially canonize the Apocrypha until the Council of Trent (1546 AD). This was in part because the Apocrypha contained material which supported certain Catholic doctrines, such as purgatory, praying for the dead, and the treasury of merit.
Not one of them is in the Hebrew language, which was alone used by the inspired historians and poets of the Old Testament.
Not one of the writers lays any claim to inspiration.
These books were never acknowledged as sacred Scriptures by the Jewish Church, and therefore were never sanctioned by our Lord.
They were not allowed a place among the sacred books, during the first four centuries of the Christian Church.
They contain fabulous statements, and statements which contradict not only the canonical Scriptures, but themselves; as when, in the two Books of Maccabees, Antiochus Epiphanes is made to die three different deaths in as many different places.
The Apocrypha inculcates doctrines at variance with the Bible, such as prayers for the dead and sinless perfection.
And the day following Judas came with his company, to take away the bodies of them that were slain, and to bury them with their kinsmen, in the sepulchers of their fathers. And they found under the coats of the slain some of the donaries of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbiddeth to the Jews: so that all plainly saw, that for this cause they were slain. Then they all blessed the just judgment of the Lord, who had discovered the things that were hidden. And so betaking themselves to prayers, they besought him, that the sin which had been committed might be forgotten. But the most valiant Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves from sin, forasmuch as they saw before their eyes what had happened, because of the sins of those that were slain. And making a gathering, he sent twelve thousand drachmas of silver to Jerusalem for sacrifice to be offered for the sins of the dead, thinking well and religiously concerning the resurrection,(For if he had not hoped that they that were slain should rise again, it would have seemed superfluous and vain to pray for the dead,) And because he considered that they who had fallen asleep with godliness, had great grace laid up for them. It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.(2 Maccabees 12:39-46)
The apocrypha contains offensive materials unbecoming of God's authorship.
Ecclesiasticus 25:19 Any iniquity is insignificant compared to a wife's iniquity.
Ecclesiasticus 25:24 From a woman sin had its beginning. Because of her we all die.
Ecclesiasticus 22:3 It is a disgrace to be the father of an undisciplined, and the birth of a daughter is a loss.
It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assassination and magical incantation.
The apocryphal books themselves make reference to what we call the Silent 400 years, where there was no prophets of God to write inspired materials.
And they laid up the stones in the mountain of the temple in a convenient place, till there should come a prophet, and give answer concerning them.(1 Maccabees 4:46)
And there was a great tribulation in Israel, such as was not since the day, that there was no prophet seen in Israel.(1 Maccabees 9:27)
And that the Jews, and their priests, had consented that he should be their prince, and high priest for ever, till there should arise a faithful prophet.(1 Maccabees 14:41)
Josephus rejected the apocryphal books as inspired and this reflected Jewish thought at the time of Jesus

Since: Nov 08

usa

#431540 Apr 6, 2013
oops double post sorry

Since: Nov 08

usa

#431541 Apr 6, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
I have told you before and I will say it again!! It is a "total waste of my time" to debate, discus or deliberate ANYTHING with "bible only" anti-catholic heretics, LIKE YOU, who "distort, manipulate, and "make up" your own Protestant CHURCH HISTORY and twisting the TRUE INTERPRETATION of the bible. You "fundies" have become (experts) at "personal opinionizing" EVERYTHING as well as EDITORIALIZING the meaning of Sacred Scripture---and have done so since the Protestant Reformation..... My time is better spent at Daily Mass, receiving Jesus Christs TRUE BODY AND TRUE BLOOD in the Eucharist, hearing, following and adhering to the TRUTH of the Gospel, and the other daily readings, the Sacraments and Daily Adoration and prayer before the Blessed Sacrament...... The fact is that there is NOTHING TO DISCUSS and NOT TO DEBATE..... We as Catholics ALREADY KNOW THE TRUTH! You "fundies" continue to "run around in circles" with your other 42,000 "relative truth" editorialist Christians. Again--Go read the Catholic Catechism and the Encyclicals which re-affirms the TRUTH of over 2000 years of TRUE BIBLICAL AND HISTORICAL WRITINGS that the Catholic Church believes and teaches!--You will also discover that "the vast majority of both Catholic and Protestant Apologistic authors and writers confirm, re-affirm, ratifies and validates EVERY DOCTRINE of TRUTH that authenticates that the One True Catholic Church --is, has and will always be the Church that Jesus HIMSELF established and initiated.
you can not debate me, because you have nothing to debate with,you can not prove anything about your church is true.
Garlic man

Troy, OH

#431542 Apr 6, 2013
confrinting with the word wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~~
Garlic is good for you physical health
but it STINKS AN ISOLATES THOSE THAT EAT IT...
It has a tendency to divide/separate those that indulge.
you must be a terribly lonely person...
the Bible speaks of fellowship.
1Jn_1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Confi,
Your assumptions are wrong, just like your assumptions regarding the catholic Church.

What does walking in the light of Christ have to do with eating garlic? Yes, the blood of Christ cleans us from sin, but garlic cleans the mind from confusion and crazy assumptions such as yours. Looks like you are not only in need of the forgiveness of Christ but also of a good dose of garlic!
Garlic man

Troy, OH

#431543 Apr 6, 2013
JUST-A-CHRISTIAN wrote:
<quoted text>
You too, 7th!!:)
You could also use some garlic ...
LOL!

Since: Nov 08

usa

#431544 Apr 6, 2013
hojo wrote:
<quoted text>
Send your "fictitious" anti-catholic (editorial) comments to your local newspaper....... Liberal News media :hacks) are "always looking" for (National Inquirer) imaginative, invented and "made up" news!!!
There isn't a single line of Scripture that says God handed power over to a "church" or any human to be able to change His Word. So what does God have to say about His own Word? Man must not live according to the Word of the pope, but according to the word of who?... Matthew 4:4 ...'But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.'... There we have Jesus' own Words, confirming that we live by the Word of God alone.

Hebrews 4:12 ...'For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.'

1 Peter 1:25 ...'But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.'

The Word of God lasts forever, and it is by that Word alone that we are to live.
hojo

Chanhassen, MN

#431545 Apr 6, 2013
jethro8 wrote:
<quoted text>you can not debate me, because you have nothing to debate with,you can not prove anything about your church is true.
There IS NOTHING TO DEBATE!! Go read the Catholic Catechism and the Encyclical if you want answers.--- I know EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING that is in the Catechism and the Encyclicals. Discover and read it for yourself! I spent over 4 years researching these documents and writings. NOT WORTH MY TIME discussing your anti-catholic "personal editorialized opinions vs the TRUTH OF SACRED SCRIPTURE AND THE TRUTH OF APOSTOLIC CHURCH HISTORY!! Go argue with your other 42,000 bible only inconsistent and contradicting protestant interpretors of Sacred Scripture.
7th Day Catholics Rock

Poplar Bluff, MO

#431546 Apr 6, 2013
Preston wrote:
<quoted text>LOL. the Hebrews are Jews, DOOFUS!!!!
Jacob and his sons is where the tribes of Israel come in and the term jew derived from the tribe of Juda in which the lineage Christ would come.

Hebrews were before hand like Abraham and his kinsman and Isacc.

read your Bible.
Preston

Waverly, OH

#431547 Apr 6, 2013
7th Day Catholics Rock wrote:
<quoted text>Jacob and his sons is where the tribes of Israel come in and the term jew derived from the tribe of Juda in which the lineage Christ would come.
Hebrews were before hand like Abraham and his kinsman and Isacc.
read your Bible.
The first person to be called a Hebrew was Abraham, and the name commonly refers to his descendants, known as the Jewish people. so your statement is INCORRECT.LOL. LIKE ALWAYS.
7th Day Catholics Rock

Poplar Bluff, MO

#431548 Apr 6, 2013
Preston wrote:
<quoted text>The first person to be called a Hebrew was Abraham, and the name commonly refers to his descendants, known as the Jewish people. so your statement is INCORRECT.LOL. LIKE ALWAYS.
Old Testament Life and Literature (1968)
Gerald A. Larue

Chapter 8 Who Were the Hebrews?
ACCORDING to biblical tradition, the Hebrews are peoples descended from Shem, one of Noah's sons, through Eber, the eponymous ancestor, and Abraham. Gen. 7:22 f., reports that the flood destroyed all life except that in Noah's ark consequently the whole human family descended from Noah and his sons: Japheth, Ham and Shem. As yet, not all of the names of eponymous ancestors in the family lines can be identified,1 but some probabilities are listed in Chart 6

From Shem, through Arpachshad and Shelah came Eber, the eponymous ancestor of the Hebrews, and from his descendants through Peleg, Reu, Sereg and Nahor came Terah, the father of Abram and his brothers Nahor and Haran. It becomes clear that if Hebrews are descendants of Eber, then others besides those of Abraham's line would be included (Gen. 10:25-27)

Gen. 12-25
With Abraham the story of the Hebrews begins and it is clearly stated that Hebrew origins lay outside Canaan. The summons to leave his ancestral home and journey to Canaan is accompanied by a promise (Gen. 12:2) that becomes a submotif in patriarchal accounts re-appearing again and again (Gen. 13:14, 15:5 , 18:10, 22:17, 26:24, 28:13, 32:12, 35:9, 48:16), finally taking covenantal form (Gen. 17:14) The promise has two parts: nationhood and divine blessing or protection. The precise location of the nation-to-be is not specified but was of course known to those hearing or reading the account. The promise of blessing signified the unique and particularistic bond between Yahweh and his followers, so that the enemies of Abraham or the nation were enemies of Yahweh, and those befriending Abraham and/or the nation would be blessed. With this assurance, Abraham journeyed to Canaan, Egypt, the Negeb, Hebron, Gezer, Beer-sheba and back to Hebron where he and his wife Sarah died.

The descriptions of Abraham are not uniform: at times he appears as a lonely migrant at others as a chieftain, head of a large family, or as a warrior. Factual details about the patriarch are difficult to establish for his real significance lies in what is often called inner history, through which those who looked to Abraham as a forefather gained understanding of themselves as people of the promise and attained a sense of destiny and an appreciation of their particular relationship to their deity. We have noted earlier that some Abrahamic traditions coincide with information coming from Nuzi which would place Abraham in the Middle Bronze era.

We read that Abraham in response to a divine summons, left Mesopotamia and journeyed to Canaan with his wife Sarah and nephew, Lot. It is clear that the people were meant to recognize themselves as a community originating in a commission from God and in the unwavering unquestioning obedience of Abraham. The journey itself was more than a pilgrimage, for it constituted the starting point of a continuing adventure in nationhood. Nor are the travelers without vicissitudes, but throughout famine, earthquake, fire and war, they are protected by Yahweh.

Gen. 14 in which Abraham is called a Hebrew for the first time records a battle between the patriarch and kings of countries or areas as yet unidentified for certain and associates him with the Canaanite king of Jerusalem It is possible that reliable historical data are preserved here The account of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah may also rest in some memory of a shift in the earths crust that destroyed the cities of the plain. Tradition associates Abraham with Hebron and if Jebel er-Rumeide is the site of this ancient city it is evident that a powerful city was located here in the Middle Bronze period.

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